Need more clarity around 60% success rate in DE meta

[Firebeard.1746]

In a box, this sounds like excellent news, however, my impression has been that most of the community has stopped playing the meta. The 60% success rate means little if it's only a given community or set of communities that's finally figured out how to clear reliably and they're just doing it with the same groups of people. Because that could mean that if we all try again, we're just going to fail again. Can we get more data on random commanders not associated with a given community succeeding? Did you vet your numbers to make sure people weren't being siphoned off into the failing 40% of maps and that the 60% of maps succeeding weren't stacked? Apparently a commander in Mighty Teapot's hardstuck community was doing that to stack his instance and was boasting a 90% success rate before being caught. 

Also, what about comps? Are the 60% of people succeeding running full raid comps in each sub group? Is that the expectation? some clarity around expectations of the commanders could also go a long way in terms of making sure groups are properly organized in order to succeed. 

And finally, does succeeding in the meta mean i have to play full-on LFG wars? Or is there any hope of just joining a map and it succeeding? Because honestly there are players that never use that tool.

A number is just a number and with no context, I'm timid about believing it's good news. If it is, that's great, but I still saw plenty of complaints after the last set of nerfs, so my gut tells me there's just a few particular communities doing it and succeeding reliably, potentially by being jerks like the Hardstuck commander. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Vaen.2605]

Valid questions.  A lot of people in my casual guild who may be on the lower end of skill levels have completely avoided this meta since getting their turtles.

 

Hopefully the bite fix helps next week, losing to RNG is never fun.

[Leo.5693]

According to GW2Efficiency player database, 30.153% have unlocked Hook, Line, and Sinker achievement (owned a Fishing Rod). 26.607% have unlocked I Am The Captain achievement (owned a Skiff).

Meanwhile, only 8.995% have unlocked Stomping Around achievement.

[Firebeard.1746]

56 minutes ago, Vaen.2605 said:

Valid questions.  A lot of people in my casual guild who may be on the lower end of skill levels have completely avoided this meta since getting their turtles.

 

Hopefully the bite fix helps next week, losing to RNG is never fun.

Yes. Also it would be really bad for anet to tell Casual players that their clear rates should be 60% just for them to fail 5 times in a row again without explaining what needs to happen for it, it would completely erode trust given how much the design and difficulty of the meta has tested the patience of the community. 

[Donari.5237]

I'm lucky enough to have a commander to follow that gets us 100% wins.  She hasn't won every time, but it's been a long time since she failed and every run I've been on with her has been an easy win.  It does take a huge hunk of time, because we gather 30 minutes before we want to start, and then have to charge the portal en masse to try to force open a fresh map, then there's all the stack gathering by doing events, and finally we get to escort.  But she keeps it fun and friendly, and usually has two runs a day.

I do wonder if her runs are upping the success rate overall, lol.  She's written up a guide that is posted in her Discord, and it's translated into Spanish and Portuguese as well.  ANet isn't likely to put out a guide, but players develop them for anything complex in the game.

[Firebeard.1746]

27 minutes ago, Donari.5237 said:

I'm lucky enough to have a commander to follow that gets us 100% wins.  She hasn't won every time, but it's been a long time since she failed and every run I've been on with her has been an easy win.  It does take a huge hunk of time, because we gather 30 minutes before we want to start, and then have to charge the portal en masse to try to force open a fresh map, then there's all the stack gathering by doing events, and finally we get to escort.  But she keeps it fun and friendly, and usually has two runs a day.

I do wonder if her runs are upping the success rate overall, lol.  She's written up a guide that is posted in her Discord, and it's translated into Spanish and Portuguese as well.  ANet isn't likely to put out a guide, but players develop them for anything complex in the game.

Mind sharing a link? I was actually thinking about how little control a commander had over map comp but then realized if you open your own map then you'll have more control. You might even want squad members in a current map before opening a new one to create padding on a sub-optimal map so it'll catch less intentional players and you'll get people joining your squad hopping to yours.

[TeeracK.3601]

Unshocking the dev's are failing to capitalize on this expansion yet again. I assume they release that trailer reusing old trailer footage cause they are experiencing big drop off from player retention. Gee, I wonder why? Why would player not want to play a game where they cant do some of the most important content in the game that the entire expansion is centered around???

 

I'm not the type who holds back words often so I'll just say this is the exact reason most people quit wow where the leadership of the company refused to accept design flaws. With the exception of bugged achievements in echovald the only thing I have left to do in eod is collections(and legendaries I dont need) that are all on the final step needing to do another dragons end. Every time i check lfg i see it's mostly empty. So you know what i do? I dont look through discord to try and get into some private group. I close the game play something else.

 

I have nearly all pve and collection achievements in the entire game and I've played from day one. I spend too much time getting pointless things and waste lots of money on flashy stuff in the gem shop. I really am the ideal consumer who even does pvp and wvw occasionally. That being said. With out a doubt EoD is the worst expansion in terms of keeping me around because its timers for normal events suck and the metas aren't worth doing between lack of rewards and fail rates. I have no reason to log in and I've lost faith in any real change of dragons end improving.

 

The ice brood saga team did a better job at designing repeatable content with a team for 4 people lol. 

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

It's simple really.

 

Good players -> Succesful Meta. 

Bad players -> Failed Meta. 

Bad players upon seeing good players doing the meta succesfully: We want that too, let us in your group! 

Good players: okay, but to prep we'd like you to- 
Bad players: Stop telling me what to do toxic elitists!
Good players: But-
Bad players: Carry me, it's open world,  I don't have to do kitten, go find others with your attitude if you don't like it! 
Good players: Sigh deeply and proceed to disappear into Discord communities and continue to clear the meta.
Bad players who are now left to their own devices and will not get carried: Why does nobody do the meta anymore Q_Q

 

So many people have tried, so many trainers have tried, so many public commanders have tried...
But so many people refused to do even the bare minimum, even 10 stacks of DE contributor was too much to ask...
And when asked nicely people would curse at you, call you a toxic elitist and to stick with your own kind. 

So that is exactly what those people did. 

 

Congratulations everyone, you only have yourselves to blame. 

I hope you will remember this lesson for when expansion 4 comes around in a few years.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Wielder Of Magic.3950

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

I honestly haven’t done it in a while myself. I’ve gotten maybe 3-4 clears out of like 15-20 times back then. I just haven’t made time to do it cause been busy on other content. I’d like to get in to see how the battle has improved though.

[Ruisen.9471]

My guess is that alot of people who are still willing to play the meta are people who 

a) like hard content

b) are willing to put effort in order to do said hard content

c) have joined public discords with other like minded people to do this.

I only ever run DE with public discords, and the average DPS in VERY high (a dozen or more people doing 20k+ during burns) for a pug group of randoms, these are people doing enough DPS for strike missions.  

I don't think they have much of a choice for this though, if they want this content to be hard, it will only attract people who like hard content.  

Map cap is still a big problem though.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Khisanth.2948]

3 hours ago, Pizzous.4783 said:

According to GW2Efficiency player database, 30.153% have unlocked Hook, Line, and Sinker achievement (owned a Fishing Rod). 26.607% have unlocked I Am The Captain achievement (owned a Skiff).

Meanwhile, only 8.995% have unlocked Stomping Around achievement.

Fishing and skiff are required for story so that is not a very useful comparison. Skiff is also practically required for fishing.

 

 

[AgentMoore.9453]

31 minutes ago, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

Congratulations everyone, you only have yourselves to blame. 

I hope you will remember this lesson for when expansion 4 comes around in a few years.

So, are you talking to Arenanet..? They are the ones responsible for this unpopular meta and the abandonment of a previously successful method of allowing both casual and highly-coordinated players to enjoy the same content. Players who enjoy more challenge and coordination should be able to run this meta in a private instance where they have control of their group comp and don't have to carry people. Likewise, more casual players should be able to see a fair success rate with a difficulty/demand comparable with previous open world offerings.

Mushing two opposing playstyles together in an underpopulated map and expecting it to work was a silly idea.

I legitimately do hope they remember what's happening with DE when they start work on the fourth expansion, because this weird standoff between the players absolutely did not need to happen and should not happen again.

[Firebeard.1746]

14 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I legitimately do hope they remember what's happening with DE when they start work on the fourth expansion, because this weird standoff between the players absolutely did not need to happen and should not happen again.

Yes. Tbh, given the bipolar design of drms (either too easy or ridiculously hard in cm mode, but overall not that enjoyable), the weirdness around drakkar (too easy at first, then it became a damage sponge that was a hard squad size check), i was scared all throughout the wait that pve quality just wouldn't be there in eod. And tbh i don't feel it is. And unfortunately, the devs feel like difficulty alone means a good/memorable experience, at least that's how the phrasing on the post came across. I don't want a standoff like this EVER again. 

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Fishing and skiff are required for story so that is not a very useful comparison. Skiff is also practically required for fishing.

 

 

 

I think that they were listing those as sort of a baseline among those accounts on GW2efficiency that are active. 

[Donari.5237]

2 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Mind sharing a link? I was actually thinking about how little control a commander had over map comp but then realized if you open your own map then you'll have more control. You might even want squad members in a current map before opening a new one to create padding on a sub-optimal map so it'll catch less intentional players and you'll get people joining your squad hopping to yours.

I found her through this post: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/109967-follow-me-lets-get-your-egg/?tab=comments#comment-1589199

You can send her mail in game to express interest and she'll send you the Discord link.  There's way more than 50 people involved, we just can't all make every run she leads.  She tries to get fully pre-made, and often we have that plus an overflow squad who share the same voice chat, but she also reaches out to find people that don't have their egg yet.  There's a run in about an hour from the time I am posting this (I won't be on it, it's a Critical Role night).

[Ultramex.1506]

Been doing DE daily, seem easier now even for commander that just lead this meta for the first time

Still i would prefer not havingt to get in 1 hour early to prep and another hour to finish, beside Stone ( which is 1 per day) this meta isnt rewarding

Edited April 15, 2022 by Ultramex.1506

[Xainou.1502]

I honestly haven't been motivated to step back into this meta ever since I got my egg. Which is a shame because it's fun and I like the event design that goes into it. And I certainly enjoy harder content.

But atm it feels like bashing your head against a wall, if there's an almost 50/50 chance of succeeding. You can do everything right, get into a decent map, get all your buffs, play well... and still fail. And waste 2 hours.

It's a recipe for struggle and demotivation in my opinion. It's already hard to get 10 people into a group dealing with mechanics and pulling their weight. Now multiply that by 5 and toss it into open world, where you have no control over who is in that squad. This sucks and just doesn't work for open world stuff.

[Mesis.2951]

I first experienced the DE meta 6 days ago. And out of 4 attempts, 3 were sucesfull. The one that failed was at 10%, mainly becouse 50% of people were dead and didnt revive

Is the meta actually hard? With what people would call "raid group". The boss barely does any mechanics
And it is definetly easier to coordinate than lets say Tarir or Dragon Stand

It just feels to me people have gotten quite lazy/unwilling to learn. There are practically 1 button builds that can do 10k+ DPS which is more than enough for this event

[ugrakarma.9416]

7 minutes ago, Mesis.2951 said:

I first experienced the DE meta 6 days ago. And out of 4 attempts, 3 were sucesfull. The one that failed was at 10%, mainly becouse 50% of people were dead and didnt revive

Is the meta actually hard? With what people would call "raid group". The boss barely does any mechanics
And it is definetly easier to coordinate than lets say Tarir or Dragon Stand

It just feels to me people have gotten quite lazy/unwilling to learn. There are practically 1 button builds that can do 10k+ DPS which is more than enough for this event

Theres overzealots around, not the majority.

Is the same kind of ppl whos ask for roles to do Shiverpeak Pass.

[ugrakarma.9416]

1 hour ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

Been doing DE daily, seem easier now even for commander that just lead this meta for the first time

Still i would prefer not havingt to get in 1 hour early to prep and another hour to finish, beside Stone ( which is 1 per day) this meta isnt rewarding

stone price is droping like crazy also.

[ugrakarma.9416]

4 hours ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

My guess is that alot of people who are still willing to play the meta are people who 

a) like hard content

b) are willing to put effort in order to do said hard content

c) have joined public discords with other like minded people to do this.

I only ever run DE with public discords, and the average DPS in VERY high (a dozen or more people doing 20k+ during burns) for a pug group of randoms, these are people doing enough DPS for strike missions.  

I don't think they have much of a choice for this though, if they want this content to be hard, it will only attract people who like hard content.  

Map cap is still a big problem though.

soon they will realize thats not many ppl.

[ugrakarma.9416]

7 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Also, what about comps? Are the 60% of people succeeding running full raid comps in each sub group? 

Theres not need raid comp. just subgroups with 1~2 alac spammers.

The freak speed runners is whos spread toxicity in the community.

Theres no need for over-zealotry to achiev this meta.

 

[Labjax.2465]

You know, I don't want to be mean to the devs who I'm sure worked hard on this expansion, but if I'm being honest, I played each meta from each map once and have had little desire to go back. With the city one, I had to figure out where to go just to participate and that was a pain. With the forest one, I got overwhelmed by the light show and couldn't even see the trash pile to hide behind. With the infamous final one that has caused so much grief, I actually got lucky; no comm tag, just someone with a "let's do it anyway" attitude giving instructions the whole way in map chat, but we got lucky on mechanics and it was evident we had some good DPSers, so it went down pretty smoothly. But knowing that I got lucky and how much time is expected out of me for so little, I don't want to bother doing it again.

For me, it's also just the mechanics of these metas didn't land for me much at all and I have come to appreciate HoT metas more as a result.

I guess this is to say that for me, some success rate numbers mean very little. As long as RNG is a significant factor, as long as the prep is designed around some janky buff stacks instead of the tried and true approach of giving good rewards for doing pre events, I don't see the point.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I hate it when you guys do this.  The thread is clearly in response to something, but there's no links to what it is responding to.

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

stone price is droping like crazy also.

Yep. Every week the price takes a somewhat sharp drop and then levels out there.  I wouldn’t be surprised if it drops to around 5G by this summer assuming the new recolored skins don’t slow that down.  Tuesday’s change to reduce RNG should also help as well with the success rate of the meta. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by mythical.6315