Why GW2 classes are top tier

[Hotride.2187]

This thread should be: "Why GW2 guard and necro are top tier."

And then actually explain why. That'd be a good read.

[Mell.4873]

33 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

This thread should be: "Why GW2 guard and necro are top tier."

And then actually explain why. That'd be a good read.

It used to be much worse and I complained so much when they dominated fractals. I mean sPvP guardian is pretty OP at the moment but necro is no where near where it was a year ago.

I mean necro is only op due to its class mechanic it doesn't exactly have many boons applications. Both Warrior and Ranger are pretty bad to at the moment due to the lack of boons (support wise)

[Gorem.8104]

9 hours ago, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

Class frequencies in the 20 games Teapot spectated:
Guardian: 51
Necromancer: 31
Thief: 27
Revenant: 24
Engineer: 22
Ranger: 18
Elementalist: 15
Mesmer: 12
Warrior: 0

 

And by expac:
EoD: 120
Core: 40
HoT: 25
PoF: 15

 

 

Balance looking pretty good. /s

Pvp based, Guardian-Necro-thief, sounds right, Warrior 0, also sounds right to most people. Hahaha man. I could have guessed these numbers by just playing the game and experiencing the games "pvp" unbalance. 

[Mesket.5728]

On 5/12/2022 at 7:43 AM, Gorem.8104 said:

They really need an entirely new balance design team. 

Team? How do we know this is not balanced by one guy in the basement? The same guy making everything else game design wise? This cannot possibly have been done by a team... the current changes (couple of years maybe) never passed a peer review nor aan approbal from someone else. I mean the terrible decitions the've been making would've been stopped by anyone in that process. This sounds like just one guy playing he is a game designer and delivering with no control.

[Telgum.6071]

On 5/12/2022 at 12:24 AM, Mell.4873 said:

No class plays the same and at the same time no class is to OP.

I see you are indeed mastering the art of trolling and forum baiting. Should you put that phrase at the start, I would've just close this thread and move on, but instead you've put it on the very end of the OP.

[Senqu.8054]

23 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

For example in Eso I had a Nightblade build that could self heal based off damage. Rather than allowing this build to continue the devs removed the passive healing and replaced it with a static heal. I feel like this example never really happens in Gw2. They never straight up remove something rather lower its performance. (maybe torment runes but it is not a class)

Ahh a typical mell. Claiming things without any ground. I can not say it often enough but it’s a shame that statements like this are not reportable since just talking kitten is not considered an offense.

ANet is the Company that nerfs skills traits and mechanics dead since ca. 2008. It even has become a common term: „smiter booning“. Whenever ANet is not able to balance something accordingly they just stop spending resources on it and rise the resource costs of this skill to extremely inefficient levels. Using those skills after this procedure is often related to negative impacts. And the builds that relied on those skills just died instantly and never came back. The worst part about it is it leaves a dead skill in game which never get touched again and can’t be taken.

And don’t get me started on what was all removed. I posted a list already and you saw it. Stop spreading such misinformation!

Edited May 13, 2022 by Senqu.8054

[Mell.4873]

19 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I see you are indeed mastering the art of trolling and forum baiting. Should you put that phrase at the start, I would've just close this thread and move on, but instead you've put it on the very end of the OP.

Arg it's more my brain/dyslexia. Sorry if I confuse people sometimes I tend to think up my words faster than I can type so sometimes I make points twice and such. 

[Mell.4873]

15 hours ago, Senqu.8054 said:

Ahh a typical mell. Claiming things without any ground. I can not say it often enough but it’s a shame that statements like this are not reportable since just talking kitten is not considered an offense.

ANet is the Company that nerfs skills traits and mechanics dead since ca. 2008. It even has become a common term: „smiter booning“. Whenever ANet is not able to balance something accordingly they just stop spending resources on it and rise the resource costs of this skill to extremely inefficient levels. Using those skills after this procedure is often related to negative impacts. And the builds that relied on those skills just died instantly and never came back. The worst part about it is it leaves a dead skill in game which never get touched again and can’t be taken.

And don’t get me started on what was all removed. I posted a list already and you saw it. Stop spreading such misinformation!

Okay I guess meh I'm just here to say my piece. This whole thing is just about why I still play Gw2, I'm not making grand claim like the balance is good for other players, it is just good for me. 

[Telgum.6071]

4 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Arg it's more my brain/dyslexia. Sorry if I confuse people sometimes I tend to think up my words faster than I can type so sometimes I make points twice and such. 

I have the same problem, you can look at my previous messages and you'll see ~90% are edited.

[BearChow.7284]

Gw2 respects your time you put into game. That why it's best mmo for me.  Logged out in 2013, came back in 2022 and I can continue where I left off. 

[Sunshine.5014]

On 5/11/2022 at 3:24 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Arena Net are not afraid to alienate their player base to prevent power creep. 

Staff Ele is very powerful and needed to be nerfed to prevent power creep. Everytime I see a glass Staff Ele in WvW I almost have to stop myself thinking about free food. I mean, I needed to stop thinking about food because if I stand still to eat food, they may kill me with their Meteors Shower after a minute, clearly not enough time to eat food.

There, I'm so glad ANet are not afraid of alienating the player base to prevent power creep. Thank you for the food ANet!

[Cuks.8241]

Its been a long time since I played wow which was the last mmorpg before gw2. That was still in the talent tree times of wow. 

Gw2 has way better balance compared to that. Both pve and spvp.

pve checks are much tighter in wow so it would probably be similar in gw2 if they made checks super tight.

Pvp Arena really only had a few specific comps with very specific builds. Gw2 you actually have options, even at higher skill tiers. And if you add 3v3 and 2v2 the variety is quite good. 

[frareanselm.1925]

On 5/12/2022 at 5:20 PM, Xelqypla.6817 said:

I think people are missing the forest for the trees.

You may not like the balance changes, but the classes are definitely diverse. A mechanist may revolve around a pet, but it's never going to feel like Ranger. A Specter may use shroud, but it's definitely not a Necromancer. Warrior may have gotten an Elite spec of some sort, but it's never going to be loved by Anet. Things like that.

Why so much build diversity if only 3 of them are meta and others just unviable.

I's like to play elementalist with conjured weapons, but I can't, because Anet abandoned him. What about engi turrets?

[Ryou.2398]

On 5/12/2022 at 8:57 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah dude same story for me but rather than those it was ESO, Warframe, Skyforge. 

Eso is more balanced then ever, I would say its probably better then anything else atm, they also made hybrids viable so now you can easily have magica on stam abilities under the same stat. And skyforge is a bad example no one takes that game seriously lol. I better example would have been final fantasy.

[otto.5684]

From Pve standpoint, yes, there is decent diversity. It could be better (much better), but it ain’t bad. PvP balance is a kittening joke. And the sad part, PvP balance was not always this bad. It has been trending down though since mid 2019. Right now it is a trash fire.

Edited June 4, 2022 by otto.5684

[Mell.4873]

22 hours ago, Ryou.2398 said:

Eso is more balanced then ever, I would say its probably better then anything else atm, they also made hybrids viable so now you can easily have magica on stam abilities under the same stat. And skyforge is a bad example no one takes that game seriously lol. I better example would have been final fantasy.

The problem I had with ESO is they would strip out class mechanics and call that balance. I mean Nightblade could move as fast(er) in stealth just like normal running (Not as bad a sorcerers teleport). It was super fun but not really OP but they removed it from my memory because no one can move quick while in stealth.

The splitting of skills into Magicka and Stamina was again another bad change since it removed any diversity in your selection since those skills damage scaled off the resource your primarily use.

The previous system was better since Stamina players would use weapon skills and then Magicka was reserved for survivability or buffs skills. If you were a Magicka player your survivability tool was blocking or dodging.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Ryou.2398]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:30 PM, Mell.4873 said:

The problem I had with ESO is they would strip out class mechanics and call that balance. I mean Nightblade could move as fast(er) in stealth just like normal running (Not as bad a sorcerers teleport). It was super fun but not really OP but they removed it from my memory because no one can move quick while in stealth.

The splitting of skills into Magicka and Stamina was again another bad change since it removed any diversity in your selection since those skills damage scaled off the resource your primarily use.

The previous system was better since Stamina players would use weapon skills and then Magicka was reserved for survivability or buffs skills. If you were a Magicka player your survivability tool was blocking or dodging.

They brought it back the hybrids of stats so we will see how it turns out, my issue is the boring dumbed down open world and no reason to group up in the open world.

[Senqu.8054]

On 5/19/2022 at 3:30 AM, Mell.4873 said:

The problem I had with ESO is they would strip out class mechanics and call that balance. I mean Nightblade could move as fast(er) in stealth just like normal running (Not as bad a sorcerers teleport). It was super fun but not really OP but they removed it from my memory because no one can move quick while in stealth.

The splitting of skills into Magicka and Stamina was again another bad change since it removed any diversity in your selection since those skills damage scaled off the resource your primarily use.

The previous system was better since Stamina players would use weapon skills and then Magicka was reserved for survivability or buffs skills. If you were a Magicka player your survivability tool was blocking or dodging.

you are seriously a clown saying this while doing the fanboy in ever dang gw2 sub forum even when the balance changed did exactly that. 

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

On 5/12/2022 at 12:24 AM, Mell.4873 said:

Looking over the recent nerfs and many of the previous elites that have had massive changes or standardization (like boons), I noticed a trend.

Arena Net are not afraid to alienate their player base to prevent power creep. I mean its not perfect since most core classes are not as powerful as the elites but ultimately my point holds true.

This goes on to my next point which is how do other MMOs deal with power creep.
Most MMOs  buff other classes or simply mechanics which sounds great since your particular play style is never nerfed but it does create issue around content difficulty. You can see a lot of this with MMO's like Warframe where every new frame has a new way to break the game and rather than trying to balance them they just buff everyone else or make the combat simpler.
ESO is another culprit where they straight up remove mechanics from a class rather than trying to balance them, making every class play the same.

The primary reason I play GW2 is the class diversity and the constant balance along with it. No class plays the same and at the same time no class is to OP.

 

Some how this all touch stuff I said recently so I fell talked to.

 

Yes Arena.NET doesn't seem to be afraid to alienate the playerbase I think everyone can sign this.

 

Yes Warframe is more on the buff side this is also because they can they have not mentionable pvp community .

Actually every time I think about warframe and pvp I can't stop laughing 🤣

There is no way to balance this but this borderline insanity it what the game makes fun.

Also Warframes there are some which are relative universal but most have hard trait-offs

 

But it isn't the most imbalanced game those titles goes to p2w MMOs and mobile games where numbers go higher and higher ..

I did make a list recently how a few online games I know did take this:

 

Warframe ( we nerf only if it is really needed)

Final Fantasy XIV(  equal buff and nerf)

Path of Exile ( already more on the nerf side lot of builds are lost like Tomb Witch)

Guild Wars 2 ( From build diversity to only tanks mostly)

League of Legends ( We nerf every other champion when we  have new champions)

 

About playstyle yeah I also said to this something the problem is really if people playstyle  get too often interrupted they leave .

The problem is really that you get as player  advantages over time but they become part of you playstyle and when you take them away the players gets really frustrated .

 

The problem is that MMos are "forever games" and because of this accumulation the gab between new and old players become wider and wider . In gw2 the idea was/is that this can only be your skill  and all content stays relevant to avoid dead content.

 

The problems is they broke away from it multiply times with:

content dungeon -> fractals  -> strike mission

Also they favor current add-on > old add_on > core which is kinda was LOL does but with specs .

 

This has also as result that problems with elite specs are solved by nerving core which means current core builds are much less powerful then the original vanilla .

 

The new features but on the other hand taking them completely away you don't make with this the community your friend but they kinda did already(e.g boon sharing from chrono) and this makes a lot of players alienated before all this somewhere around spring 2019 they went with same  approach Warframe has by giving each spec a specific role.

 

But from all of this the biggest balance problem is they completely screw the risk - reward balance by making all class nearly the same .

 

From my personal  perspective each bigger patch the last 3 years did interfere with my playstyle because I'm doing fractals, pvp and wvw all at once and at least one time dev targeted one of my builds in end I felt like in a blender.

 

Yeah I take a break from gw2 how long no clue..

 

 

 

[Axl.8924]

On 5/12/2022 at 12:43 PM, Gorem.8104 said:

My personal opinion? every balance they have done since EoD launch, including the launch patch, has been bad and the wrong direction for the game. Why was Spellbreakers nerfed? WvW right now is large melee boon blobs, so they nerfed an ability that helps against the meta. Then they nerf ranged - which is already weak in wvw fights. 
They nerfed sustainability, they nerfed this, and nerfed that. 
They are working towards making the game as boring as possible. By making classes feel the "same" as they put it "bring the player not the class". 
EoD E-specs needed a year of work. They were hardly changed at all and all feedback for every single one of them was ignored from the beta tests. Mechanist mech's have been nerfed multiple times now when it comes to pvp, that means from launch they were unbalanced, and yet now after having their dps stripped and making the classes only viability being bunker, they nerfed bunker. 
Elem's, the downstate class that could at least bring something ranged to wvw, was nerfed for no reason other then to make wvw worse for everyone. Participation in wvw has been nerfed and never fixed after they removed gains from using siege entirely. 

They really need an entirely new balance design team. 

 

This was a question i was meaning to ask:before the nerf/changes what role did spellbreaker fit?

Also its becasue ANET has too many classes and specs to deal with and there is a lot of whining for nerfs and also buffs.

People been whining about other classes having stuff and want the same thing as them leading to being  a similar clone copy.. 

[Gorem.8104]

3 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

This was a question i was meaning to ask:before the nerf/changes what role did spellbreaker fit?

Also its becasue ANET has too many classes and specs to deal with and there is a lot of whining for nerfs and also buffs.

People been whining about other classes having stuff and want the same thing as them leading to being  a similar clone copy.. 

The thing is, I main'd Warrior at launch and had a blast, when I came back to the game and saw E-specs were a thing, I was amazed at just how much worse Warriors was, So I'm not the best person to ask this, most likely need to ask Lan who posts in the Warrior forums quote a lot. Cause I know Spellbreaker for awhile was apparently much better, but got multiple nerfs to this point, and I see even now still gets nerfs. So it used to be a very good Boon stripping anti-magic counter class. Basically, would be entirely perfect for the current meta if it was actually good at doing those things. 

 

Which is most likely why they never will let it be actually good, cause their current plans is to make the game as boring as they can. 

[Jski.6180]

Boon benchmarks have nothing to do with a build so the classes whom get "free" benchmark boons can fill any roll they want to fill in a group as needed and still bring that needed boon.

[Angesombre.4630]

Sometimes you can have a skill improvement over years and all of a sudden like a Russian roulette the same skill gets nerfed more drastically than it was at the beginning.
The skill that comes to mind is the revenant chain throw with the dwarf legend. But it's not the only one.

And like the warrior, the revenant has suffered so much lately that I've come to change classes because the one I originally liked has lost so much that I don't find it fun at all anymore.... it's so sad.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Angesombre.4630