Dear Devs

[Aphex.9782]

I want you to go on a livestream and beat the champions in the game including the legendary bandit chief. I am really curious to see this because clearly you think they are fine as is.

[Sarius.9285]

you do realize they aren't solo events, right?

Edited May 20, 2022 by Sarius.9285

[DanAlcedo.3281]

An ememy that can't be beaten alone? 😯

In an MMO? 😮

From an event that's tagged as a group event? 😱

I M P O S S I B L E!!!! 🤯

[Aphex.9782]

10 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

An ememy that can't be beaten alone? 😯

In an MMO? 😮

From an event that's tagged as a group event? 😱

I M P O S S I B L E!!!! 🤯

An MMO usually revolves arround coordinated group content. These champions are a zergfest. Go in, get oneshot, revive, repeat. Since there are no tanks/healers why are there oneshot mechanics? Everytime i encounter one of these broken pos mobs it's the exact same...10 people on the floor and the rest is reviving and rushing back.

[Fuchslein.8639]

34 minutes ago, Aphex.9782 said:

An MMO usually revolves arround coordinated group content. These champions are a zergfest. Go in, get oneshot, revive, repeat. Since there are no tanks/healers why are there oneshot mechanics? Everytime i encounter one of these broken pos mobs it's the exact same...10 people on the floor and the rest is reviving and rushing back.

You know this game has a dodge mechanik? You know this? Right? Right?

[Danikat.8537]

40 minutes ago, Aphex.9782 said:

An MMO usually revolves arround coordinated group content. These champions are a zergfest. Go in, get oneshot, revive, repeat. Since there are no tanks/healers why are there oneshot mechanics? Everytime i encounter one of these broken pos mobs it's the exact same...10 people on the floor and the rest is reviving and rushing back.

The fact that there are no professions which are dedicated tanks or healers doesn't mean everyone's only option is to rush at enemies until they're killed then repeat it until either the enemy dies or everyone gives up. (Also the fact that it's not working very strongly suggests that is not the intended way to handle the fight.)

For one thing it is possible to build a support character, it just means doing more than simply healing (or absorbing damage) and that it still won't allow the people you're supporting to mindlessly rush at enemies without dying. It also means it's possible for everyone to provide some of their own support - that's why everyone always has a healing skill and all professions can provide boons and things like condition removal.

More importantly though it is as you said coordinated group content. That means the group needs to coordinate, working together and paying attention to what's going on. A good first step in that would be learning to dodge, block or avoid those one-shot attacks (which is often as simple as "don't stand in the red" which is a fairly universal rule across many RPGs and MMOs). It also means doing things like using crowd control skills to prevent their stronger attacks and stun them to give everyone time to do extra damage (and then taking advantage of that opportunity) and reviving other players when they get downed etc.

GW2 players are absolutely capable of doing that. I've seen 150 people in 3 squads work together to complete events with some fairly complicated mechanics, like bosses which are only vulnerable at certain times and at other times will one-shot everyone in the area if they don't evade it, and need certain types of attacks (or at least lots of CC skills) to take down or groups coordinating to take down multiple bosses with different mechanics within a minute of each other, or doing entirely different activities - maybe 1 group is defending NPCs while another is building up defences and a 3rd is fighting a boss, then they all have to swap round.

But it all starts with that coordination. If everyone goes in thinking they're fighting solo even if other people happen to be there, and that beating the boss just means throwing as much damage at them as they can, as fast as possible, then yes they're going to fail a lot of the events in this game. A good first step is simply to make sure a few other people are there when you start, especially if it's labelled as a group event and a good second step is to pay attention to what's happening and react to it instead of assuming you can just keep zerging them until you've worn them down.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Aphex.9782 said:

An MMO usually revolves arround coordinated group content. These champions are a zergfest. Go in, get oneshot, revive, repeat. Since there are no tanks/healers why are there oneshot mechanics? Everytime i encounter one of these broken pos mobs it's the exact same...10 people on the floor and the rest is reviving and rushing back.

 

Reason being simple:

- experienced players likely already cleared those events in the past, thus any achievements gained are of no interest to them

- experienced players know how bad the rewards are for clearing the encounter

- experienced players know what a clown-fiesta looks like and might stay clear if they see dozens of players perma suiciding into an up-scaled difficult boss enemy

 

That leaves you with:

- new and inexperienced players death rushing these champs

- players on weaker builds scaling up the encounter (not necessary any ones fault, these champs are placed in areas where a lot of new players might not have downscaled level 80s and will lack traits, gear and proper skills)

 

The champs are tough but in no way unbeatable. They can even be soloed given the correct build. It's a matter of experience, scaling and willingness to do a multi-minute fight.

[ugrakarma.9416]

These bandits are in noob areas and are doable in group, just tag up or call in map chat that noobs will pop-up. or veterans doing stuff in area popup too.

 

I find it amazing how underrated is this "side histories" model is successful in integrating veterans and noobs.

[ugrakarma.9416]

29 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Reason being simple:

- experienced players likely already cleared those events in the past, thus any achievements gained are of no interest to them

- experienced players know how bad the rewards are for clearing the encounter

- experienced players know what a clown-fiesta looks like and might stay clear if they see dozens of players perma suiciding into an up-scaled difficult boss enemy

 

That leaves you with:

- new and inexperienced players death rushing these champs

- players on weaker builds scaling up the encounter (not necessary any ones fault, these champs are placed in areas where a lot of new players might not have downscaled level 80s and will lack traits, gear and proper skills)

 

The champs are tough but in no way unbeatable. They can even be soloed given the correct build. It's a matter of experience, scaling and willingness to do a multi-minute fight.

stop this raid obscessive garbage.

noobs that know ressing is enough to beat it. i have completed these side histories many times, sometimes with 5 ~ 8 ppl.

Edited May 20, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[jaif.3518]

OP, type "GW2 solo champion" into youtube and enjoy. I want to be clear that I am not this good. 🙂

 

There's a wide gap in skill and knowledge.   GW2 open world bosses deal with this by allowing zerging.

[Nash.2681]

2 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

stop this raid obscessive garbage.

 

noobs that know ressing is enough to beat it. i have completed these side histories many times.

What has anything Cyninja wrote to do with raids (or any "garbage" or "obsession" found there)? 

And where exactly did anyone claim that it's not impossible to "beat it with noobs that know ressing?". What ever triggered you there, you might want to take a deep breath before responding in the future.

[costepj.5120]

OP, is this what you wanted to see?

The legendary bandit fight starts about 3 minutes in.

[Gehenna.3625]

I think it's interesting how people instantly jumped on "the OP wants to do the legendary champion solo" bandwagon. He didn't say that and in a later post he confirms that's not what he wants.

That aside, there are a couple of legendary bandit champions that have really crap mechanics, especially for newer players. But like anything, people do manage in the end. Not everything has to be easy in this game, though I do agree the mechanics for a lot of ow bosses are kinda meh. /shrug

[Vayne.8563]

The mechanics in that fight are confusing, because people are trained to avoid circles. In that fight you have to stay in the circles and use the special action key.

Using that key inside a circle gives you a spear which roughly does one percentage of damage to the legendary boss. If you were alone you'd have to hit him with that spear a lot. But if course if four people are there, each person would have to hit him with the spear only 25 times.

The trick is to find four people that know they have to stand in those circles and hit the special action key. It's not hard, it's just counterintuitive.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Vayne.8563
used the wrong word

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think it's interesting how people instantly jumped on "the OP wants to do the legendary champion solo" bandwagon. He didn't say that and in a later post he confirms that's not what he wants.

That aside, there are a couple of legendary bandit champions that have really crap mechanics, especially for newer players. But like anything, people do manage in the end. Not everything has to be easy in this game, though I do agree the mechanics for a lot of ow bosses are kinda meh. /shrug

You missed the fact that he tries to make an argument about these opponents being bad "zerg fests that are completed by players being repeatedly killed and rushing back to continue fighting". Meanwhile the fact remains that the players are able to kill these bosses solo (even though it's still a group event!), which means the problem here isn't exactly the boss itself or that the "keep respawning and rushing back" is the desired/optimal/only way to succeed there. It is an option for some players, sure. But that's about it.

[Khisanth.2948]

8 hours ago, Nash.2681 said:

What has anything Cyninja wrote to do with raids (or any "garbage" or "obsession" found there)? 

And where exactly did anyone claim that it's not impossible to "beat it with noobs that know ressing?". What ever triggered you there, you might want to take a deep breath before responding in the future.

It even mentions being soloable if someone is willing to spend the time ...

[Gibson.4036]

Dear Aphex.

Thread title was super clickbaity. Putting your actual topic in the title is a kindness to all.

[Telgum.6071]

23 hours ago, Aphex.9782 said:

Go in, get oneshot, revive, repeat. Since there are no tanks/healers why are there oneshot mechanics?

This is the definition of git gud. You are supposed to dodge, block, heal, become invulnerable or whatever tools your build has to survive. Some people is expected to die because it's a legendary foe, yes, but you can't seriously come here and say that an event that has been here for half decade is broken.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Telgum.6071

[Aphex.9782]

2 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

This is the definition of git gud. You are supposed to dodge, block, heal, become invulnerable or whatever tools your build has to survive. Some people is expected to die because it's a legendary foe, yes, but you can't seriously come here and say that an event that has been here for half decade is broken.

lmao how are you supposed to see anything when i was just in a dungeon and there was one payer with ridiculous glowing mtx, wings, sword effects that obscured the entire screen. now imagine 10 of those. he looked like a clown and i couldn't see anything. i just ended up walking along and doing nothing....such fun. dungeons are complete trash as well lol. if there is not a high level player doing it solo it's just a chaotic wipefest. oneshot traps everywhere. no healers when you clearly need healers since one mob hits you for 50% of your hp. of all the mmos i played this is the worst expierience i had in any of them.

[Dante.1508]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:16 PM, costepj.5120 said:

OP, is this what you wanted to see?

The legendary bandit fight starts about 3 minutes in.

Try doing that with over 250ms ping..

23 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The mechanics in that fight are confusing, because people are trained to avoid circles. In that fight you have to stay in the circles and use the special action key.

Using that key inside a circle gives you a spear which roughly does one percentage of damage to the legendary boss. If you were alone you'd have to hit him with that spear a lot. But if course if four people are there, each person would have to hit him with the spear only 25 times.

The trick is to find four people that know they have to stand in those circles and hit the special action key. It's not hard, it's just counterintuitive.

I did that and its dots killed me in seconds, faster than i could channel the spear. Even a cc cleanse didn't help.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Dante.1508

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 5/20/2022 at 2:58 AM, Aphex.9782 said:

I want you to go on a livestream and beat the champions in the game including the legendary bandit chief. I am really curious to see this because clearly you think they are fine as is.

Oof.  Maybe learn a bit about the game before you make cringe challenges?  All of the bandit champions and the executioner can be done solo.  They have predictable mechanics with obvious telegraphs.  Would you like to know how to deal with the executioner?  Here's a few tips:

- The veteran casters buff the executioner with 25 stack might, dramatically increasing his damage output.  Bring boon strip or kill the casters to reduce the damage he deals.

- Aside from obvious area denial (i.e. orange and red circles), the boss lacks any sort of ranged attack and literally slow walks around the area.  There is no timer on this fight.  The only requirement is that at least one player remain alive inside the bubble.  So, feel free to buy all the time you need by staying at range.

- If employing ranged damage (recommended!), make sure to position yourself such that the boss walks away from the rotating light orb he will summon.  This reflects projectiles, so you'll want to avoid having your projectile ranged attacks path into it.

- The big damage in this fight (aside from eating melee attacks which are 100% avoidable from range!) comes from the periodic whirl attack.  If you listen for it, the boss makes a distinctive sound before performing this attack.  Be ready for it, but don't dodge too early.  The big damage comes at the end of the whirl with a knockdown + 5 stack bleed.  This is what you must avoid if you want to live!

- If you're playing a melee build your job is significantly more difficult.  The boss hits very hard with melee attacks, so you'll have to be sure to cover your offense with blocks/evades wherever possible and be ready to dodge out.  It's still 100% doable on a melee build, however.  I recommend positioning yourself over the veteran casters for the whirl so you can take them out with cleave while scoring some damage following the dodge.

And that's pretty much it.  Just dodge the big knockdown after the whirl, stay out of circles, boonstrip/kill vets, and don't roast yourself with projectiles fired into his reflecting orb.

Edit:  Also, here's a clip of one of the bandit champions done solo.  I won't list how to handle all of their individual mechanics, but each bandit only has a few moves that they repeat so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure them out!

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by AliamRationem.5172

[AliamRationem.5172]

54 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

Try doing that with over 250ms ping..

I did that and its dots killed me in seconds, faster than i could channel the spear. Even a cc cleanse didn't help.

Hint: The dots come from either standing in red circles (but these deal relatively low damage) or the hugely telegraphed and 100% avoidable knockdown following the whirl attack.  If you're struggling to watch for this attack due to your ping, listen for the sound the boss makes (he yells out before the attack).  This is a smoke and mirrors fight that tries to distract you from the real danger, which is that big knockdown that applies the monster bleed that's probably killing you.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Aphex.9782 said:

lmao how are you supposed to see anything when i was just in a dungeon and there was one payer with ridiculous glowing mtx, wings, sword effects that obscured the entire screen. now imagine 10 of those. he looked like a clown and i couldn't see anything. i just ended up walking along and doing nothing....such fun. dungeons are complete trash as well lol. if there is not a high level player doing it solo it's just a chaotic wipefest. oneshot traps everywhere. no healers when you clearly need healers since one mob hits you for 50% of your hp. of all the mmos i played this is the worst expierience i had in any of them.

I agree that dungeons are poorly designed.  So does ANet, given that they have been dead content for many years now.  Try fractals instead.  They're much better, in my opinion, and have multiple difficulty levels and a loose form of progression so you can ease into it and learn as you go.

You don't necessarily need healers for dungeons, however.  Some mobs hit very hard, but they also die very quickly if you know how to deal damage and not everything in dungeons has to be killed to clear them.  There is a small community of dungeon solo artists with plenty of videos up on youtube if you care to see how it's done.

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 5/20/2022 at 6:28 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think it's interesting how people instantly jumped on "the OP wants to do the legendary champion solo" bandwagon. He didn't say that and in a later post he confirms that's not what he wants.

That aside, there are a couple of legendary bandit champions that have really crap mechanics, especially for newer players. But like anything, people do manage in the end. Not everything has to be easy in this game, though I do agree the mechanics for a lot of ow bosses are kinda meh. /shrug

I think the point is more that if something can be done solo but the OP's experience is that the boss is death-zerged, the problem isn't necessarily the design of the fight.  It's to be expected that a legendary boss in a low level zone kills new and low level players.  It's actually content attached to the max level story, but occurs in low level zones.  In my opinion, it's pretty cool that something like that can be taken down by a mob of less skilled and/or lower level players while also possibly being defeated by a single max level player who knows what they're doing.  That's not something you really see in other MMOs.

[Vavume.8065]

On 5/20/2022 at 11:01 AM, Aphex.9782 said:

An MMO usually revolves arround coordinated group content. These champions are a zergfest. 

Welcome to the GW2 zergfest.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Vavume.8065