Would you be ok with an in-game DPS-meter if it only showed your own numbers?

[Omega.6801]

Hi there,

basically what the topic says.

Would you be ok with an in-game DPS-meter, given it would only show your own metrics? Most arguments against DPS-meters are that 1) ppl feel spied upon and 2) that ppl fear exclusion if their numbers don't fit whatever other players see as "good DPS". Now if the meter only showed personal numbers I think both these arguments stop to matter.

Discuss.

[Fuchslein.8639]

No. Anet would monetize this and make it worse. Fight me.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Flasterko.4087]

Sound like nice idea. 

[Gehenna.3625]

25 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

No. Anet would monetize this and make it worse. Fight me.

I think that if they could monetize this, they'd already done it years ago. People have been asking for it for years also. It's more reasonable to assume that they haven't done this because it doesn't fit their philosophy and/or might affect the performance in the game.

The thing is that they've never really changed the GUI to the point that they even built tiny buttons in for fishing etc. and toys. My question is: why didn't they just expand the GUI and the only thing I could come up with is that it would cost performance. Don't forget that a lot of players run potato PCs (no disrespect intended) and this could affect them more. Dunno, just guessing here.

As for the topic, I wouldn't mind an integrated DPS meter, if indeed it's for yourself only. 

[Wolfshade.9251]

Not if it would replace Arc like build templates.

[Farohna.6247]

Yes, for self improvement and seeing how I'm doing with a rotation.  Also it's fun to see how different food items and buffs change that.  I think it would make it easier for some players to understand their dps better. Also when I try out a new character or build, I'd like to see it in comparison to what I normally play..like this feels weak, is it or am I just not hitting the right keys.  And I don't like third party ad-ons for things.

Without others seeing a dps chart of different players, it would eliminate the fear many have of being excluded.   I don't want anyone to feel they HAVE to work towards dps as an endgame or must play a meta build, but it would be a nice way to see how they're doing when they aren't sure of why a build isn't working.  

EoD I feel has really brought more of that to the forefront with the Soo-won meta, even for open world play.  You aren't as easily carried, you need to participate.

I would not only like it to show dps, but also healing for more support players.  Give you a better overview of what your character does.  

[Fuchslein.8639]

15 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think that if they could monetize this, they'd already done it years ago. People have been asking for it for years also. It's more reasonable to assume that they haven't done this because it doesn't fit their philosophy and/or might affect the performance in the game.

The thing is that they've never really changed the GUI to the point that they even built tiny buttons in for fishing etc. and toys. My question is: why didn't they just expand the GUI and the only thing I could come up with is that it would cost performance. Don't forget that a lot of players run potato PCs (no disrespect intended) and this could affect them more. Dunno, just guessing here.

As for the topic, I wouldn't mind an integrated DPS meter, if indeed it's for yourself only. 

Okay, thats probaly true. They could put it with the Templates in the game~. So i don't know. I just don't trust anet, after the template disaster, with stuff for what we already have something perfectly good working.

I mean, we have the Golem and even this freaky cat is often strangly bugged.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Strider Pj.2193]

16 minutes ago, Wolfshade.9251 said:

Not if it would replace Arc like build templates.

And we both know it would replace it.  Just like ARC templates were forbidden after, ARC DPS would also,

[Taclism.2406]

If you're gonna make a "solo" dps-meter, just bring the training golem to a more obvious place / make people practice rotation once after they hit 80 so they know the tool is there and they'd train sometimes on it. (could even have been a monthly quest so people stay in touch with balance patches) 
A dps meter doesnt matter in 99.9% of the overworld, and making it "solo" would just lead to lying about their performances to get into groups, or/then to people asking for screenshots of their actual numbers.

Imo there's not even a big demographic asking for that feature as OP describes it.
People either want to know how their dps is relative to others (because a number void of context is meaningless) ; or have no information and the illusion of doing ok rather than a tool pointing out they're below average.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[Danikat.8537]

This is probably a stupid question but how would this be any different to the existing combat info which can go into the chat box? Are you looking for something which literally just spits out a single average number for damage done per second over a period of time, rather than all the detail on damage per skill, condition etc?

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I would not mind a personal DPS meter. But I am not the target audience of DPS meters. Those are raiders and people who play for stats. Reach certain benchmarks, improve, adapt, improve, ... ect. They need feedback to improve. I am fine with the golem and gw2skills.net. 

  

1 hour ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

No. Anet would monetize this and make it worse. Fight me.

 

45 minutes ago, Wolfshade.9251 said:

Not if it would replace Arc like build templates.

They are afraid of losing the rest of ArcDPS the same way they lost unlimited build templates. I get that fear. If they implement an ingame DPS-Meter, Arc is history. But Arc is so loved, because it already has all those controversial/vital features. 

To be very honest, I do not care what 3rd party programs you run and why. Not anymore. I do not care if you can spy my entire account. Read out all my button-pressing and skill performance. As long as you do not tell me how I should play the game, unrequested. My problem is that many people skip the official instructions (on the page you can download it). We could avoid most of all threads about this topic, IF people followed the number 1 rule under "how do i use it". 

Minipoll for the ArcDPS users:
  (laugh) - Who knows the line from memory?
😖 (confused) - Who has ever bothered reading it?
😢 (sad) - Who had no clue this existed?

This is anonymous. Be honest.

Edited June 6, 2022 by HnRkLnXqZ.1870
removed the link to prevent topic-deletion

[Spartacus.3192]

ArcDps gives me everything i need to know and it very easy to use. 

[Omega.6801]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

This is probably a stupid question but how would this be any different to the existing combat info which can go into the chat box? Are you looking for something which literally just spits out a single average number for damage done per second over a period of time, rather than all the detail on damage per skill, condition etc?

I'd say we could have both. The combat log is fine, if you're looking for something specific like "woah! what just killled me there?" but it's not a good measure if you want to know your average dps. Sure, could add all the numbers up manually and get an average through the combat log, but you know no one does that.

[kharmin.7683]

I would rather Anet spend their resources elsewhere.

[Dawdler.8521]

22 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I would rather Anet spend their resources elsewhere.

Making a dps counter that arcdps already does better so that PvE elitists can brag about their numbers being better than other peoples numbers...

... or...

... fix a broken 3x3x6m square wall section in WvW that's been missing for 5+ years.

I mean, you KNOW what Anet will choose.

[Wolfshade.9251]

1 hour ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

I would not mind a personal DPS meter. But I am not the target audience of DPS meters. Those are raiders and people who play for stats. Reach certain benchmarks, improve, adapt, improve, ... ect. They need feedback to improve. I am fine with the golem and gw2skills.net. 

  

 

They are afraid of losing the rest of ArcDPS the same way they lost unlimited build templates. I get that fear. If they implement an ingame DPS-Meter, Arc is history. But Arc is so loved, because it already has all those controversial/vital features. 

To be very honest, I do not care what 3rd party programs you run and why. Not anymore. I do not care if you can spy my entire account. Read out all my button-pressing and skill performance. As long as you do not tell me how I should play the game, unrequested. My problem is that many people skip the official instructions (on the page you can download it). We could avoid most of all threads about this topic, IF people followed the number 1 rule under "how do i use it". 

Minipoll for the ArcDPS users:
  (laugh) - Who knows the line from memory?
😖 (confused) - Who has ever bothered reading it?
😢 (sad) - Who had no clue this existed?

This is anonymous. Be honest.

I understand what you mean. That one unread rule especially. 

 

However, there is also another side to seeing other people's performance.

- seeing what build someone is running at a glance (are they condi or power, is it a support build or is it something completely off-meta, are we running 5 quickness/alacs?).

- comparing your own performace to others (hmm this other guy on my class did much more damage than me - lets see what he did differently, or oh wow my power class is worse in here compared to all these condi players)

- being able to provide constructive criticism (if you're leading a raid training or if it's a high requirement group or if you know for a fact that the person wants your advice)

 

I imagine the last point will be seen as most controversial due to a lot of not-so-polite criticism.

[Farohna.6247]

2 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

This is probably a stupid question but how would this be any different to the existing combat info which can go into the chat box? Are you looking for something which literally just spits out a single average number for damage done per second over a period of time, rather than all the detail on damage per skill, condition etc?

Yes, I'd be looking for an average of a complete fight or until I stop hitting something.  Then can look at a breakdown of numbers just like now.  

2 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

If you're gonna make a "solo" dps-meter, just bring the training golem to a more obvious place / make people practice rotation once after they hit 80 so they know the tool is there and they'd train sometimes on it. (could even have been a monthly quest so people stay in touch with balance patches) 
A dps meter doesnt matter in 99.9% of the overworld, and making it "solo" would just lead to lying about their performances to get into groups, or/then to people asking for screenshots of their actual numbers.

Bringing the golem into part of the training for players, much like how to dodge, would be a good idea instead of a dps meter.  I honestly didn't know about this thing for a long time, and still don't use it.  I'd be fine putting them in guild halls or all home cities.  

There are people who would abuse it and be elitist, but those are the same people who already demand kill proofs and kick people from odd things.  I do think making people more aware of their numbers might help many, so they might be prepared for doing harder content.

[PepeLePewPew.2107]

Only if it's opt-in and can be completely turned off.  One of the reasons I like GW2 is that it allows casual play for fun rather than min/maxing everything.  I've nothing against raiders and others who enjoy constantly watching the numbers, but I left that playstyle some time ago.  If a fun less powerful spell is good enough, I prefer it over a boring spell that gives bigger numbers.  Remember, not everyone plays the game the same way you do.  Nor are they required to.

[Khisanth.2948]

No because DPS numbers in a vacuum are nearly useless and potentially harmful.

2 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

Without others seeing a dps chart of different players, it would eliminate the fear many have of being excluded.   I don't want anyone to feel they HAVE to work towards dps as an endgame or must play a meta build, but it would be a nice way to see how they're doing when they aren't sure of why a build isn't working.  

Without facts people just make stuff up. This was already proven back before arc existed. Sticking your head in the sand will not make those types of people go away.

Only seeing your own numbers will give misleading ideas. "Wow this build is awesome! It does 2000 DPS, the previous one only did 1000 ...". Relatively speaking sure but in the full spectrum it is not. Other than timed content a 2000 DPS build still "works" it just ends up taking a lot more effort. A 1 million HP enemy with 9m limit requires less than 2000 DPS.

[ASP.8093]

ArcDPS already exists and it's insanely good. What problem are we trying to solve here exactly?

[Khisanth.2948]

36 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

ArcDPS already exists and it's insanely good. What problem are we trying to solve here exactly?

and covers things like boon uptime for non/less DPS oriented builds

[Solnos.8045]

I would definitely support a dps counter of some kind. Without a dps for scale the numbers that pop up on screen mean nothing. For example take a druid staff and auto attack, the damage number is going to be huge even tho the dps is negligible. I buildcraft a bit and I don’t know if build A is better than build B because the damage bubbles are so useless without overall dps. The only way to tell is how fast it feels to kill a monster and thats such an inaccurate metric.

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, ASP.8093 said:

ArcDPS already exists and it's insanely good. What problem are we trying to solve here exactly?

I use ArcDPS and yes, it's good. But I have to intentionally search, download and install it. Most players will have absolutely no idea it even exist even if they're interested in something like it. Players should not be required to use 3rd party add-ons for something as simple as this. Also, any major updates, we have to manually download a new version of ArcDPS.

Seriously, how much resources will be needed to implement it? It's a very small program. If something like that could be incorporated into the client, then we won't have to worry about getting a fresh copy for the game client to work after every major updates.

With it as part of the game client, then it can be a simple click to open/close, to hide/show specific details, etc.

Will having it as part of the client be bad?

 

[Cuks.8241]

I would like to have it. I only install ArcDps when I'm testing builds, encounters. But I just dont feel like updating it constantly so I delete after the next patch until I want it again.

I would be fine with just personal dps if I can still install Arc when I want more. Well the best thing for me would the full scope integrated feature but judging by what they did to templates maybe this is not something I should wish for.

[ASP.8093]

4 minutes ago, Solnos.8045 said:

I would definitely support a dps counter of some kind. Without a dps for scale the numbers that pop up on screen mean nothing. For example take a druid staff and auto attack, the damage number is going to be huge even tho the dps is negligible. I buildcraft a bit and I don’t know if build A is better than build B because the damage bubbles are so useless without overall dps. The only way to tell is how fast it feels to kill a monster and thats such an inaccurate metric.

Try ArcDPS! It's really good. The basic configuration is great for figuring out "what is my DPS and where does it come from" out-of-the-box.