Is PvP as bad as everyone is claiming it is?

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

4 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

So when people say spvp is full of win traders, bots and afkers I am a bit sceptical if they even play this mode.

Bots are present in lower tiers. I've seen a few when I started this game in low silver but now in higher tiers I dont see any bots. Its similar with afkers. Yes sometimes player will go afk. This is the case in any game. But repeated afkers will not climb the ranks. 

So if you intend to play spvp and actually improve yourself you will probably out rank bots and to some extent afkers very quickly.

Win trading is on the other end. Players in gold dont win trade. This is supposedly an issue at the top of the ranks. So unless you intend to push for the top this will not be an issue for you at all.

This is true in most games but with Gw2 the population is so low and the matchmaker is so gamey that golds and low-plat players often get into games with the very top ranked players.

Its usually a result of top players actively trying to get into games with lower rated players.

 

Plus match manipulation affects the entire competitive ladder, whether you run into it ever or not. 

[aserian.1734]

Great thanks for all the replies! Sounds like it's in a similar PvP drought as all other MMOs. I like the optimistic viewpoints I am seeing from many people, gives me hope for the game mode to still be enjoyable.

[Ashantara.8731]

14 hours ago, SlipLihte.1307 said:

As with most things, it's the most frustrated people that have the most reason to speak up, and as a result a lot of the most vocal communication tends to be quite negative.

 

Generally and technically, the game mode is fine, has a lot to enjoy, and can be quite interesting and challenging to learn. Along with instanced PvE content and open world meta events, it's some of my favourite personal content type. That said, there are currently two issues with the game mode.

 

Firstly, the sPvP player base is not that big. As a result, and due to the way the matchmaker works, you do get some games that are very poorly balanced. During prime hours it's not that bad, but outside those hours you could end up in matches that are extremely frustrating by how unbalanced (either for or against you) they are. It's not that extreme, and I would say I have about 3-5 well balanced games for everyone one that feels like this.

 

Secondly, it's generally felt that the current professions and elite specs are poorly balanced, with the new necromancer and guardian elite specs cited as being overtuned (which I personally agree with). There is a hope that in a major balance update planned to launch 28 June this will be rectified a bit. However, in a game with 9 professions, 27 elite specs, and varying skill levels, balance will always be a moving target and you may feel frustrated by not being able to play a profession you want at a very high level due to the profession's inherent balance limitations. That being said, your personal skill level is still a very big determinant in how far you can get, and some very good players are known to still play undertuned professions at high levels for fun.

 

If you can deal with these frustrations, and if you can get yourself to take a break form the game mode when it gets to you, it can be a lot of fun. However, I would not recommend it if you feel these issues are going to frustrate you a lot.

That sums it up perfectly.

I used to play the game mode quite intensely and passionately for a while and eventually burnt out over the aforementioned issues. Wasn't worth wrecking my nerves over it, really. 😉

[Rider.6024]

hopefully the balance patch changes a few things up but a few things will really determine if you can really enjoy pvp as your main mode

 

1. Do you enjoy playing willbender and/or harbringer? If so you are in for a treat.

 

2. Do you like unranked and/or 2v2 / 3v3?  If not there will be some weeks where you wanna pve and/or wvw

 

3. Do you primarily soloq or duoq? Soloq folks end up getting offput by the really low population coupled with so many duoq groups once you get to gold 3.

 

Personally I would say it's the best launch balance of an expansion for pvp thus far, but that isn't really a positive thing considering how broken chronos were for hot and mirage/spellbreaker for pof.  Harbringers/willbenders really outpreform everything else by a wide margin.

[Myror.7521]

I would say pvp in itself does okay. The Mode itself would get maybe a 6 out of 10 points. ( most reasons are: the duo que System killed pvp guilds back then and push toxic things like que dodge afks and things like that/ Anet said muliple Times they wana made quicker Patches and instead they give us slower ones result in as example warr been garbage for over 2 years now besides shout spam bladesworn). 

 

Other said I would love anet to do more for the game Performance than just the weekly gemshop Patches with New skins as the currently do.

[Sahne.6950]

if you play harbinger or Willywonka... its fine. If you play anything else... your gonna get wrecked by harbinger and Willbender.

[Tescao.3042]

The current AWC is just a fake of greatness, but the funny thing is that it's not Blizzard's fault, it's the players' choice.

[Mik.3401]

I think it’s subjective whether it is good or bad, the balance definitely seen better times, though it is better now than it was couple months ago. What’s not subjective is the PvP population which is quite small and feels like it’s decreasing. At the end we just have conquest and death match  mini seasons on repeat without the ability to choose between the two, or choice of any other pvp modes in general.  So it seems logical it can get boring relatively quickly for most people. Also it is largely based on luck because for instance you cannot form groups for ranked matches, you can for tournaments but only a fraction of the small pvp population actually does them.

[Tycura.1982]

Worse even.

[otto.5684]

In absolute terms, it is okay.

 

If you played back in the good days, it will feel like a serious downgrade. The game is far less balanced, slower and infested with CC and rez bots. 

[coro.3176]

On 6/12/2022 at 3:41 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

This is true in most games but with Gw2 the population is so low and the matchmaker is so gamey that golds and low-plat players often get into games with the very top ranked players.

Last season I checked the plat/gold cutoff and it was like 160 players above gold.

Infer from that what you will about the total game pop.

[voltaicbore.8012]

Ranked gets a 0/10 from me, and unranked gets maybe a 5/10.

After finishing my legendary armor sets from ranked, I'm never going back in there again. The only exception would be if they added some reward exclusively to ranked that I feel is an upgrade for my account, but I doubt that'll ever happen. As to why I hate it, people have covered it for the most part already. While I haven't personally witnessed too much botting or outright cheating, the rock-bottom population numbers means that 2 seasons ago, a low plat player like me kept seeing people from the top 20 all the time in my matches. Felt like there was no point to playing. I also played the most brain-dead I've ever played in pvp, and I ended up ranking higher than I'd ever done before. All things point to a very small, uncool population.

Unranked is marginally better, but let's be real - very often all the ranked shenanigans (leaning into the FotM degenerate builds, noob stomping, etc) make their way into unranked just as easily. However, those shenanigans being less highly concentrated makes unranked at least bearable for dailies and... dare I say... maybe even a little bit of fun.

[Locuz.2651]

On 6/12/2022 at 3:32 PM, Aodlop.1907 said:

Nah. World of Warcraft has more depth and room for niche outplays and the skill gap between an average player and a great one really shows.

I love GW2 don't get me wrong, but it certainly does not have the best PvP combat out there. The fact that so many core rotational abilities feature a baked-in dodge also contributes to this since you can RNG dodge a big enemy cooldown by simply performing your normal rotation.

 

More depth you say? As a long time wow player who played constiantly above 2200-3000 on almost every class in the game id have to disagree.. 

The only thing it has that GW2 doesnt is chain CCs being executed by everyone above semi ok ratings. The basics chains are so standardized tho that literally all above 2100 execute it the same way...and it all comes down to who does more pressure.  There is only exception in entire eu and thats whaaz on his thief. 

The thing that is WAY and i mean way worse is balance of combat (which isnt the same as classbalance btw).  In wow us ranged classes are forced to facetank most melee since they have more gapclosers than we have gapcreating  abbilities. The only thing u can do is drag them behind pillars and outside of the los of their healers. 

Its basicly this 

But with CC chains and dragging behind pillars mixed in between. 

As healer in GW2 i time my heals to safe players who dip low. As healer in wow i spam heal 99% of the time. The only timing i need to do is press my healing CDs when they press their offense cooldown. 

In GW2 mis positioning, overextending, using the wrong abbilties at the wrong time typically means you die. In wow you can play like a potato and get saved by your healer for minutes on end. GW2 is a lot more punishing in that regard.

In GW2 the general rule is that almost everyone has ways to create seperation. With a mix of kiting and / or pressure. It feels a lot more balanced from a combat point of view.  

Edited June 14, 2022 by Locuz.2651

[Tescao.3042]

3 hours ago, Locuz.2651 said:

 

More depth you say? As a long time wow player who played constiantly above 2200-3000 on almost every class in the game id have to disagree.. 

The only thing it has that GW2 doesnt is chain CCs being executed by everyone above semi ok ratings. The basics chains are so standardized tho that literally all above 2100 execute it the same way...and it all comes down to who does more pressure.  There is only exception in entire eu and thats whaaz on his thief. 

The thing that is WAY and i mean way worse is balance of combat (which isnt the same as classbalance btw).  In wow us ranged classes are forced to facetank most melee since they have more gapclosers than we have gapcreating  abbilities. The only thing u can do is drag them behind pillars and outside of the los of their healers. 

Its basicly this 

But with CC chains and dragging behind pillars mixed in between. 

As healer in GW2 i time my heals to safe players who dip low. As healer in wow i spam heal 99% of the time. The only timing i need to do is press my healing CDs when they press their offense cooldown. 

In GW2 mis positioning, overextending, using the wrong abbilties at the wrong time typically means you die. In wow you can play like a potato and get saved by your healer for minutes on end. GW2 is a lot more punishing in that regard.

In GW2 the general rule is that almost everyone has ways to create seperation. With a mix of kiting and / or pressure. It feels a lot more balanced from a combat point of view.  

That's why I see Reroll as one of the reasons why pvp in MMOs is dead, you haven't understood the depth of at least one class. It also refers to people who do not fully know themselves.

As for the MMA fighter, if you throw him into the woods at -30, at night against a man who learned to be a shadow of himself, such as a forester... it will most likely end sadly.

P. S. For Aodlop, maybe you'll enjoy reading about class depth. Frost DK should have lost to Shadow Priest, Frost DK puts good pressure on melee cleave, puts good pressure on the paladin's retri(puts pressure on all paladins, even on proto), but even with an anti-magic shell, he can lose to good casters. The most skill and graceful setup for frost dk in WotLK was with Frost mage and Holy paladin - Alaska. Melee cleave with frost dk are monkeys and spammers. 
Frost DK is the personification of the Frostmourne blade held by Arthas (Unholly DK). 
Watch in the same video how a hunter makes a chop out of a priest in light armor. 1vs1 is to some extent even worse than 2s.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Tescao.3042

[Ivarian.9018]

On 6/12/2022 at 4:23 PM, Aodlop.1907 said:

Check this clip for literally 5 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N65LuZsxcjo&t=185s

In this 5 seconds clip, the Priest uses a fear effect on the DK. To break this effect, the DK uses Lichborne, which temporarily gives him the "Undead" status. Noticing that the DK is now considered Undead, the Priest casts "Shackle undead" - a form of CC which can only be used on Undead. Quickly reacting, the DK manually removes "Lichborne" before it expires, thereby losing the undead status and preventing the Priests' CC effect from landing.

 

I miss this kind of stuff every day. Few games have as much niche interactions and outplay potential as WoW. 

This is a good example of what makes WoW PVP not appealing to me. Combat looks so static and so PVE. Exactly as you describe it. The fact that mobility and positioning are core elements to GW2 combat and must be actively controlled if you want to be successful is what makes it shine.

I will always remember back in the days a well known skilled player streaming its first attempt at weaver and landing a sword fire 2 using lighting flash on a thief the second after he shadowstepped  to leave the combat. He got him downed with this move.

[Sahne.6950]

10 minutes ago, Ivarian.9018 said:

first attempt at weaver and landing a sword fire 2 using lighting flash on a thief the second after he shadowstepped  to leave the combat. He got him downed with this move.

POG!

[SlayerXX.7138]

8 hours ago, Ivarian.9018 said:

This is a good example of what makes WoW PVP not appealing to me. Combat looks so static and so PVE

To be fair that are the 2 most immobile classes in wow. A necro vs guard fight(pre eod) didn't look much different. GW2 is faster but not by as much as the clip would implicate.
Back to topic: PvP at its core is great entirely by accident. Anet never cared much about PvP to begin with. Which is a shame as small scale combat is the only area in the game were you can really utilize your entire skill set. Personal skill, all your buttons and traits. Combat feels great everything else around combat is just bad and drags the game mode down.

[Guirssane.7082]

It's not that bad, people loves to cry. If you're looking for the perfect balance it won't ever be the case in a mmorpg. If you're looking for the most competitive scene it's not going to be the case either. 

 

It has flows but gw2 gameplay is just so good once you understand it that it's still fun no matter what. (Just nerf Harb and wb already tho :D) 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Guirssane.7082

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 6/12/2022 at 12:47 AM, aserian.1734 said:

I am coming back from a bit of a hiatus. Originally I got to 80 (about a year ago) and just did some casual PvP. I never really got into it enough to know if it was good or bad, but life circumstances meant I ended up stopping for a while right after hitting 80. I am coming back to the game and I am mostly just interested in PvP. I might try PvE, but PvP will generally be my main focus. A lot of the threads I am reading since End of Dragons say that PvP is just completely ruined and terrible.

 

I was just wondering if it's overblown by forum trolls or if it really is that bad? I don't have a ton of time on my hands so I'd prefer to start a game where the PvP will be enjoyable.

Thanks for your time

I assure you: YES IT IS.

 

On 6/12/2022 at 1:34 PM, Cuks.8241 said:

So when people say spvp is full of win traders, bots and afkers I am a bit sceptical if they even play this mode.

And that is where I stopped reading. If people cannot see the dumpster fire that is spvp, they're not dealing with reality. There is a REASON that Arenanet keeps quiet about it. Also, you can improve all you want but you're NOT beating the algorithm. Period. It will screw you eventually. Even the top players who "think" they're immune.

[JTGuevara.9018]

1 hour ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

It's not that bad, people loves to cry. If you're looking for the perfect balance it won't ever be the case in a mmorpg. If you're looking for the most competitive scene it's not going to be the case either. 

 

It has flows but gw2 gameplay is just so good once you understand it that it's still fun no matter what. (Just nerf Harb and wb already tho :D) 

Nobody said anything about perfection...

[Shao.7236]

Has potential to be the best in it's class as a game, Anet not finding it profitable after the E-Sport failure is normal but that's given they hardly understood their game to begin with and could have improved on it.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Shao.7236

[michixlol.9340]

My honest opinion.... yes PvP in GW2 is pretty kitten. 

 

First of all you die very fast. Most of the time you don't know what is happening, everything is bright blinky and all this stuff. 

 

Then you use your abilities, and I don't mean randomly, but you know your abilities, but still you can't get any life of other players down. Not a bit. Then they basically onehit you. Why is this possible? Because there are meta builds. And god I hate meta builds. If you don't play meta you basically have no chance. At least as elementalist. In melee you die even faster. Dodging, yes, but it doesn't really help. 

 

I played a lot because I generally like MMO PvP very much. It is such good change. But honestly, if I win, I think.. hm. Wasn't that much fun and if I lose it is so frustrating. Because you couldn't do anything.

 

Did I mention you die extremely quickly? You don't have time to think. If you are a new player, you're basically done for. You can't do anything and you are basically there to die for. It's all so squishy that it isn't even satisfying to kill someone. It feels like luck or overpowerment. 

 

The fact I think PvP in this game is really bad is also very frustrating to me, because I generally like GW2 and I just can't play WoW anymore (Retail is just awful anymore and I've already seen everything of Classic). But WoW had really good PvP generally IMO. I know it is exactly what fans of GW2 PvP hate. 
But to me WoW PvP was absolutely great. It was far more strategic, if you had bad equipment you still could do your part with abilities or could get the flag or capture or go with others and heal them or get at least a little bit of damage or just stay alive and tank a bit so others don't get damage. It was very much possible! For example also to slow enemies or distract them. Everybody could do their part. And additionally you had a reason to play PvP, to get armor and to get stronger. And learning to play was also easier. The learning curve in GW2 is so steep.. in PvE you can at least make it easier for yourself.

But in PvP in GW2 you can't do anything. You can't do any damage to meta builds. You are basically onehittet. Even in a group you can't do nothing basically. You can't slow anyone because the game pace is so fast. Staying alive is more or less impossible. You can't defend a point if you're not also meta. And only attack a point if nobody is around. Everything is chaos. It just isn't fun to me, also not after hundreds of games I played with elementalist and minion necromancer. And it hurts because I really like the game. 

I think the worst part for me is just that meta builds are THAT much stronger than others are. And that you die so fast. I like a slower playstyle like in WoW. And if I could decide I wanted armor to play for. But well.... I won't go back to WoW just for PvP. But still.. it makes me mad and sad that GW2 PvP is like that. 

[Sahne.6950]

I love how you say that everything dies very Quick, but when you use all your skills, no one dies. 

Sounds like your using a godawful build, ngl... if you wsnt to share it...., we can maybe help you, because sometimes even taking a single wrong trait can completly Ruin your build.

There is some pretty awesome offmeta elebuilds btw. Just gotta take your time to find them ^_^

Edited February 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Myror.7521]

In my opinion PvP is actually pretty enjoyable. How ever get 2-3 builds in a OP state plus the Same pvp-mode over years Made it a bit meehhh. I would Love to have more gamemodes but yea xd

[ZolracAtrox.2908]

Combat System: It's great, but man check how repetitive PvP is, same maps, same mechanics, throgout the years xD

 

In balance: It was ... almost at the bad spectrum before that scepter cata meta. Trash during that meta and right now idk what to say, 5vs5 season hasn't started yet, but I hope it's not as bad as before, i don't even know if scepter cata stills OP 'cause haven't played much lately.

However; tried Aion & New World and can tell you that GW2's PvP is a fking masterpiece if you compare to them (NW not by a balance topic, but is boring asf). Haven't tried WoW PvP but I heard that is trash.

So for MMORPGS Gw2 (for me, personal opinion dodn't judge me) still  has the crown.