How would you feel...?

[Guy.9207]

How would you feel if Braham dies? What would be your first impression on it? How would you see it after like say, 3 months?

Do you like the idea of him dying at some point or do you absolutely abhor it? Or do you just don't care?

[khorren.3702]

People's obsession with Braham dying is really disturbing to me. I get it if you don't like a character, but they could just.... go be off screen for a while.

[Ashantara.8731]

I don't get some players' obsession with character deaths. What is wrong with you? There are so many ways to get rid of a character. This is the lamest way, especially when repreated x times as a plot device.

There are several characters I am tired of and want gone, Taimi being my #1, but I don't wish death upon them. Braham had his chance of a heroic death; letting him die now, when he is finally finding peace for himself, would feel totally out of place, sad and -- frankly -- quite ridiculous.

[Lottie.5370]

I'd love to see WAY less Braham in the story, I'm not a huge fan of his character. Can't he just retire off to the wilderness or something? 

 

But on the opposite subject of death... I'd love to see Zojja come back.

[Fueki.4753]

Let's not kill off any more significant characters for no good reason.

 

[Guy.9207]

24 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Let's not kill off any more significant characters for no good reason.

 

I wasn't advocating for that, only trying to find the general consensus when it comes to uh...his reception. I find Braham to be one of those "you either love him or hate him" characters, so I wanna see what people think about him dying.

Edited July 8, 2022 by NeverLoseGuy.3894
quote

[Dayra.7405]

He wasn't in EoD (beside the visit of the final-party). Fine, could stay like that 🙂

Same for Zojja, nothing against a short visit, but hopefully not more.

Also Gorrik, could go to a bug-expedition or detective-case somewhere, where we don't meet him 🙂

Edited July 8, 2022 by Dayra.7405

[Ashen.2907]

I dont want him dead, I just dont want him around. Let him retire, settle down, get married, have kids, etc....just so long as I dont have to interact with him again.

[Farohna.6247]

5 hours ago, khorren.3702 said:

People's obsession with Braham dying is really disturbing to me. I get it if you don't like a character, but they could just.... go be off screen for a while.

It's creepy and disturbing at this point.  Definitely time to get some fresh air.  

2 hours ago, Dayra.7405 said:

He wasn't in EoD (beside the visit of the final-party). Fine, could stay like that 🙂

Same for Zojja, nothing against a short visit, but hopefully not more.

Also Gorrik, could go to a bug-expedition or detective-case somewhere, where we don't meet him 🙂

This is much nicer, just he can go the background and continue his therapy.  I'm not in the I love Zojja/Felicia Day crush camp, and frankly don't care if she's ever brought back in (spoilers: she won't be).  It doesn't bother me that they've just left it hanging.  Gorrik I like, but as a competent and somewhat questionable researcher.  

Back to OP's question.  I like Braham.  I think he's grown up and matured and is an imperfect person of action who genuinely cares about his friends and the world.  Also his bubble is helpful lol.  He's rather scrambled from being with Primordius, so let's give him a break.  

[Nosrorav.4703]

it would make since for braham to die during champions

or at least scarred

but most people want him dead no matter what

taimi too

like they wanted trahearne and kormir dead

kinda weird

[AgentMoore.9453]

10 hours ago, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

How would you feel if Braham dies?

Would depend on when/how. I think the tail end of IBS would have been the perfect point at which to either kill him heroically or leave him disfigured by his choices and give him a less prominent role as a leader figure for his people.

But we didn't get that. We got a plot-armored character who's achieved most if not all of his goals, suffered no consequences except a bit of remorse, and is now sort of floating around narratively. He feels like an extra now. Big third-wheel energy. If he died at this point, I'd probably feel nothing, because the appropriate moment for it has already passed.

[Poormany.4507]

As others have mentioned, since he didn't die at the end of the Saga, although I was kind of expecting him to, I don't think he's dying anytime soon. Killing him off atm would be pointless. Maybe if he gets another Far Shiverpeaks storyline in the extended map and/or rejoins us sometime in the future it would make sense, but that would probably be at least a several years away. We're almost certainly dealing with primarily Canthan/Unending Ocean stuff in the next LW, which I don't really see Braham as being that important to.

One of the new Canthan characters or Ivan dying seems much more likely in the nearer future imo, although it should definitely not feel forced, especially since we just had three major deaths in EoD and haven't really gotten a chance to interact that much with the new Canthan ones.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Poormany.4507

[Kalavier.1097]

On 7/8/2022 at 8:17 AM, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

How would you feel if Braham dies? What would be your first impression on it? How would you see it after like say, 3 months?

Do you like the idea of him dying at some point or do you absolutely abhor it? Or do you just don't care?

This has zero context so the answer is "Braham dying? no." Are we talking like an actual written out thing that serves a purpose in the story and his character? or just a "I HATE BRAHAM, KILL HIM"?

On 7/8/2022 at 8:30 AM, khorren.3702 said:

People's obsession with Braham dying is really disturbing to me. I get it if you don't like a character, but they could just.... go be off screen for a while.

 

On 7/8/2022 at 8:44 AM, Ashantara.8731 said:

I don't get some players' obsession with character deaths. What is wrong with you? There are so many ways to get rid of a character. This is the lamest way, especially when repreated x times as a plot device.

 

18 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

It's creepy and disturbing at this point.  Definitely time to get some fresh air. 

 

All three of these are true. There are other ways to remove a character other then appealing to some death or horror craving to see a character you slightly dislike killed off.

It's almost reaching a level of disturbing like Trahearne got, where people started to actually seem to believe the world hated him to. "I'd throw him off the glory of tyria at Arah and the crew would cheer me!" or "I wish I couldn't just dissed and insulted Eir at her funeral!"

 

[Labjax.2465]

I would be disappointed in them (most likely) offing him just due to some fans not liking him. I don't see any non-gratuitously-dark reason to off him. If there was gonna be a time to do it, I think it would have been something to do with dragonstorm and him willingly making a sacrifice he couldn't come back from. With where the story is now, it's hard to imagine a scenario where it would even make sense for him to die in the context of the story arc. Just let him join some monks or something to heal from his experiences if he really needs to be written off. Him having a "impulsive to wise" arc wouldn't be the worst thing and could also be positioned as a "this isn't the real you" arc, where he gets called back into action at some point to help save the world again and rediscover himself, and ends up overall a more mature person, but still the same Braham in some ways.

Edit: Ooh, maybe could send him off to the Kodans, where he learns something about balance from them, but still struggles to fit in. Makes him wiser overall, but he has to move on at some point and go back to saving the world.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Gibson.4036]

Since we started off his character with an immature crush, it’d be a sweet end to his character arc if he fell in love with someone worthy of him, they married and had a large family.

Give him a bit of time raising a bunch of cubs and bring him back into the story later more mature and grounded.

[Sylvia.4870]

On 7/8/2022 at 7:17 PM, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

How would you feel if Braham dies? What would be your first impression on it? How would you see it after like say, 3 months?

Do you like the idea of him dying at some point or do you absolutely abhor it? Or do you just don't care?

         Even though Brahm dies, his legend will live on! The memories  about him will be in one's heart. Those events. Those moments. All of them. Ka-Brahm!!

Edited July 10, 2022 by Sylvia.4870

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

I don't want Braham to die. Or anyone else from the main troupe, for that matter. I really like Braham, how much he's grown, and how funny but caring he is. 

I get that many don't like him, or even hate him, but I never liked the idea of "Oh you hate X? Just kill X."

[Zola.6197]

I’m not a fan of Braham. Narratively, I felt there were no consequences for his choices in Champions, and I really disliked that we were forced to view his decision making in a positive light (and that the plan made any sense to begin with).

 

He didn’t die though. I would like to take a nice long break from the character, but killing him off now would have no impact or purpose. I don’t want characters killed off because a vocal minority dislikes them.

 

If they explore his PTSD down the line that might be interesting. I’d be absolutely fine with him essentially retiring moving forward. His Legend will be the most famous for millennia, I imagine. He could probably take on a shamanistic position due to his connection with the spirits, and remain in Hoelbrek/Shiverpeaks to guide his people. 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Zola.6197

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

On 7/8/2022 at 1:22 PM, Farohna.6247 said:

I'm not in the I love Zojja/Felicia Day crush camp, and frankly don't care if she's ever brought back in (spoilers: she won't be)

Tell your uncle who works at Anet we said thanks for the leak.

[Magix Keleton.9083]

I took a break when LWS1 started and missed the release of Flame and Frost, but was back in time for Origins of Madness (naturally very confused). So playing the rerelease of LWS1 was a bit of fresh air now meeting Braham and Rox for the first time, and I gotta say... It made me feel way more sympathy and connection to both characters than at any point in the last few years (although Rox feeling disillusioned by the Legions and joining the Olmakhan is pretty aww :3). It was also great development for their respective peoples as a window into Charr and Norn societies.

What was really highlighted to me in Braham's case though was how much Norn society has changed in the interim of GW1 and 2, and I felt like Braham himself notices this difference having grown up in another stead away from Hoelbrak (which I maintain should be called a Great-Hold rather than a city!) Rather than arriving at the Great Lodge and appealing to the congregated Norn to act as individuals, he's forced to beg Knut Whitebeard to dispatch an organised force in the defence of Cragstead instead, which Knut is naturally hesitant to do. No wonder he was frustrated. At this point, the commander is more Norn than the Norn, just sorta being like, "yeah, that sounds good, I'll come crack some skulls".

That said, it makes sense for the Norn to have formed some semblance of an organised society in the wake of their northern exodus, so I can't be too mad. In conclusion, Braham's had his ups and downs that have frustrated me, but I don't blame his character. Should he have died a hero's death? I say yes, but some of these ideas about letting him hang up his mace and become a spiritual leader among the Norn sound like a fantastic way for him to develop in his maturity. Even if the community doesn't adore him, he can be my 'new Ogden'.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Hollywood has taught us that killing someone is the only way to ever solve anything. Modern media is completely void of actual Human emotion, and especially redemption.

 

That's why so many scoff at the story for Braham from the time of HoT to LWS4.

 

"He's a Norn so he shouldn't act like a Human", except that Human isn't just a race, its a physical state of being sentient known as the Human Condition, and would (theroetically) affect any sentient being as they would be forced to deal with the same circumstances as we do.

 

Its ironic, players hated Trahearne for being a Mary Sue, but they hate Braham because he isn't.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Hollywood has taught us that killing someone is the only way to ever solve anything. Modern media is completely void of actual Human emotion, and especially redemption.

 

That's why so many scoff at the story for Braham from the time of HoT to LWS4.

 

"He's a Norn so he shouldn't act like a Human", except that Human isn't just a race, its a physical state of being sentient known as the Human Condition, and would (theroetically) affect any sentient being as they would be forced to deal with the same circumstances as we do.

 

Its ironic, players hated Trahearne for being a Mary Sue, but they hate Braham because he isn't.

Being sentient, in a universe with a broad variety of sources for sentience, does not necessarily mean experiencing that sentience in the same way that humans do. Of course if alien species are just humans with odd forehead ridges, pointed ears, or something of the like, actually just humans then sure, otherwise no.

And people dont hate Braham because he isnt a Mary Sue. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Kalavier.1097]

11 hours ago, Magix Keleton.9083 said:

What was really highlighted to me in Braham's case though was how much Norn society has changed in the interim of GW1 and 2, and I felt like Braham himself notices this difference having grown up in another stead away from Hoelbrak (which I maintain should be called a Great-Hold rather than a city!) Rather than arriving at the Great Lodge and appealing to the congregated Norn to act as individuals, he's forced to beg Knut Whitebeard to dispatch an organised force in the defence of Cragstead instead, which Knut is naturally hesitant to do. No wonder he was frustrated. At this point, the commander is more Norn than the Norn, just sorta being like, "yeah, that sounds good, I'll come crack some skulls".

That said, it makes sense for the Norn to have formed some semblance of an organised society in the wake of their northern exodus, so I can't be too mad. In conclusion, Braham's had his ups and downs that have frustrated me, but I don't blame his character. Should he have died a hero's death? I say yes, but some of these ideas about letting him hang up his mace and become a spiritual leader among the Norn sound like a fantastic way for him to develop in his maturity. Even if the community doesn't adore him, he can be my 'new Ogden'.

 

I mean, I think the first part is an example of how Braham is purely thinking of his own small homestead group, where Knut is not only thinking of Hoelbrek as a whole, but the stream of people from other steads and wanderers because of the Molten Alliance. Knut knows he can defend Hoelbrek, but if he marches out with a force to Cragstead, what happens if Hoelbrek is attacked? Or they end up losing too many there and can't defend the "city".

I wouldn't even describe the Commander as being "More Norn then the Norn" but instead being a free agent who can openly travel around, and isn't part of any defensive force. Hence why Eir and (IIRC?) Knut kinda ask the commander to go with Braham, because the Commander can without weakening Hoelbrek.

I think part of this also ties into that old "omg the Norn are just party drunks now" belief that has plagued GW2, which I think is false. In GW2 we only saw so much of the Norn culture and people. We learned some yes, but not a ton about them. Now in GW2, we see the whole picture, from the brave hunters to those at home brewing or farming.

 

As for the latter part, it's actually mentioned ingame! there is a Norn https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kolijn_Johansson *found him finally* who talks about how Hoelbrek's increased traffic (and I personally assume population boon) forced them to start having more organization and structure despite it being unusual for the Norn. So while they refuse to call it a city, and Knut has no direct authority outside of Hoelbrek, the place itself is more structured then most Norn settlements. 🙂

 

[Justine.6351]

People don't like braham because he is a child pretending he is an adult.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

5 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

People don't like braham because he is a child pretending he is an adult.

He is literally a child at the start of the LWS1 campaign and is barely a young adult by LWS4. His current age after all these years (post-EoD) is only about 26 years old.

 

Most people don't mature in real life until around 30-35 years old.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508