specter most OP

[felix.2386]

yet forum is flooded with bladesworn complaints, even tho it's just a bugged class that serve as tank bot to cap points.

when the last mAT was won with 2 specter and 1 deadeye.

 

somehow no one is complaining about the most OP class.

 

warrior again the victim of easy to pick up builds.

just like back when warrior was not meta but widely played in ranked, yet still complained and nerfed.

 

after 3 elite spec, anet still treat warrior like some class for 5 year old who can't press more then 2 buttons and make it the easy useless class.

 

oh yea and off topic.

specter when played good can easily 1 hold 2 in ranked.

too much mobility

feels like the new vindicator.

nobody will ever catch it, so it can just troll 1v2 1v3 all day in far and win 1v1 when others finally stop chasing after it.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

The thing with specter is that it's kind of old holosmith: a jack-of-all-trades capable of performing several roles at once; none of them at top level, but all of them acceptably well. Can hold duels long enough with the shroud, can support with shallow grave and barrier spam, can move around with port spam and secure kills with the gravity well. I don't think you can't really nerf such a class without effectively destroying it.

[Infinity.2876]

It's a necro elite spec that should tell you something

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Spectre requires skill bladesworn is braindead

[Lighter.5631]

7 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Spectre requires skill bladesworn is braindead

i agree with you.

we need 5 specter per team in mAT.

because it requires skill.

 

gives me that "rev is favored by top player, top player tend to win" vibe.

[felix.2386]

32 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Spectre requires skill bladesworn is braindead

yea, i agree with you.

anet think warrior players can not press more then 2 buttons, even after 3 elite specs

no wonder nobody plays this garbage class which its only upside is it has little skill floor(also minimum skill ceiling)

and can only be meta with bugs and gimmick for like once every 2 years.

and gets the most complaints even when there are multiple classes more OP than warrior.

while gets nerfed the fastest.

and gets minimum gameplay diversity even with 3 elite specs and be the king of pigeonholed traits and weapon sets.

very very good class indeed.

hopefully steam people see it and don't make the mistake of picking this class.

Edited August 16, 2022 by felix.2386

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

yea, i agree with you.

anet think warrior players can not press more then 2 buttons, even after 3 elite specs

no wonder nobody plays this garbage class which its only upside is it has little skill floor(also minimum skill ceiling)

and can only be meta with bugs and gimmick for like once every 2 years.

and gets the most complaints even when there are multiple classes more OP than warrior.

while gets nerfed the fastest.

very very good class

 

It warms my heart to see  other people seeing that pattern.

[Bazsi.2734]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

The thing with specter is that it's kind of old holosmith: a jack-of-all-trades capable of performing several roles at once; none of them at top level, but all of them acceptably well. Can hold duels long enough with the shroud, can support with shallow grave and barrier spam, can move around with port spam and secure kills with the gravity well. I don't think you can't really nerf such a class without effectively destroying it.

Good, then destroy it. The only thing good about specter is that deadeye mains no longer get bullied for playing the worst spec in the game. Now they get bullied for being second.
The idea of supporting JUST ONE ally at the time means specter is either godmode or useless depending on the gamemode, it's an unbalanceable, overdesigned mechanics-creeped nightmare. Smitersboon it! Twice!

[Crab Fear.8623]

Yeah, delete specter.

Was a dumb concept.

Healer thief was either meant to fail or be broken.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Crab Fear.8623

[oscuro.9720]

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

The thing with specter is that it's kind of old holosmith: a jack-of-all-trades capable of performing several roles at once; none of them at top level, but all of them acceptably well. Can hold duels long enough with the shroud, can support with shallow grave and barrier spam, can move around with port spam and secure kills with the gravity well. I don't think you can't really nerf such a class without effectively destroying it.

Jack-of-all trades is kind of not good for balance though. As in, arguably the worst thing for balance, especially if it performs at the top end in a diverse set of roles. It starts to displace specialized specs and removes actual decision trade offs, thereby removing choices from the potential set of choices. 
 

As for nerfing it, I’m rarely in favor of nerfs. Rather, it would be better to focus it, to improve certain areas and taper down others so it actually fulfills some sort of function rather than just being good at everything. I don’t know enough about specter to say more though, this is more just in general than specifically in regards to specter. 
 

You are right, if you just nerf something that is good at everything, it will just be bad at everything and die, which isn’t particularly helpful.

[Shao.7236]

Was wondering when that topic would come up. I think Specter could be fun like the rest of Thief if it wasn't so bloated but then again they're working with a profession that's already overdoing a lot in many aspects.

It could be fixed but that's gonna take more than just co-efficient/initiative changes for the extreme linearity they've made it out to be.

[Sindrener.1592]

Nerf condi specter not power tyvm

[Bast.7253]

Condi specter is significantly more effective than power but I wouldn't say it's "op." 

It feels like fighting a more mobile necro. I did notice that you can consistently apply blind though - so I'm waiting for someone to come up with a broken build using life siphon on blind like the old daredevil build. I tried but that was before I realized scepter/pistol combo consistently applies it. 

Honestly I think specter is one of the more tamed, even as condi, than many of the other specs right now. It's a great new role for thief that isn't just - get lucky and rely on a team to give you a kill opportunity. You can contribute more easily with less risk. 

Also, as condi - it dishes out a lot of conditions but let's compare that to harbinger that has gravity well as a shroud skill. Get a duo of specter and harbinger that coordinate their cc's and yes - there's no chance you're surviving that. 

[Crab Fear.8623]

4 hours ago, Indecipherable.3621 said:

Nerf condi specter not power tyvm

delete the whole spec and stop making specs just to go against the grain tyvm

[Crab Fear.8623]

7 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Spectre requires skill bladesworn is braindead

lol....no....lol

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

9 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

yet forum is flooded with bladesworn complaints, even tho it's just a bugged class that serve as tank bot to cap points.

when the last mAT was won with 2 specter and 1 deadeye.

 

somehow no one is complaining about the most OP class.

 

warrior again the victim of easy to pick up builds.

just like back when warrior was not meta but widely played in ranked, yet still complained and nerfed.

 

after 3 elite spec, anet still treat warrior like some class for 5 year old who can't press more then 2 buttons and make it the easy useless class.

 

oh yea and off topic.

specter when played good can easily 1 hold 2 in ranked.

too much mobility

feels like the new vindicator.

nobody will ever catch it, so it can just troll 1v2 1v3 all day in far and win 1v1 when others finally stop chasing after it.

Completely agree.

It is weird that no one is complaining about Specter.

Bladesworn is buggy but Specter is just straight overperforming in just about every category: sustain vs power, sustain vs condi, DPS output, mobility, ect ect.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Completely agree.

It is weird that no one is complaining about Specter.

Bladesworn is buggy but Specter is just straight overperforming in just about every category: sustain vs power, sustain vs condi, DPS output, mobility, ect ect.

Don't forget tempest and cata, too! Top teams were running one of each in the MotA tournament.

 

Don't get me wrong, BS's sustain is obnoxious and could be toned down. But it certainly isn't "meta defining." At top level play, it's mostly a tanky teamfighter/node holder while everything else makes the plays. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 minute ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Don't forget tempest and cata, too! Top teams were running one of each in the MotA tournament.

 

Don't get me wrong, BS's sustain is obnoxious and could be toned down. But it certainly isn't "meta defining." At top level play, it's mostly a tanky teamfighter/node holder while everything else makes the plays. 

Yeah our representation of actual higher tier players is extremely low right now.

I mean it's like 95% of players are playing at mediocrity or worse nowadays, and at those tier levels, Bladesworn probably does feel like the dominant monster because players at those tier levels do not understand the game enough to work things like Specter or Cata, which are just much more obnoxious to deal with in higher tiers than Bladesworn.

This is likely why there is so much complaint about BS and virtually no complaints about Specter or Cata. I mean these are all the same reasons why we also hear so many complaints about Rifle Mech, when in reality Rifle Mech is just garbage tier useless in higher tiered play.

[Mell.4873]

I'm in the top 150 players as Untamed does that make it OP. Not really I just cheese the system and focus on a team fight shutdown build so I can 2v2 almost any build and come out on top. This is super OP considering most of my match ups are from the low gold rank.

It really just depends on how you play your class, Untamed was already so similar to how I played Soulbeast so I could easily adapt the superior specialization for my playstyle.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Mell.4873

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:45 PM, Lighter.5631 said:

i agree with you.

we need 5 specter per team in mAT.

because it requires skill.

 

gives me that "rev is favored by top player, top player tend to win" vibe.

The reason competitive teams use spectre is because it is overpowered.

Further questions?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 8/17/2022 at 2:19 AM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Don't get me wrong, BS's sustain is obnoxious and could be toned down. But-

 

Cata can 2v1 reliably and BS can't so, yknow priorities.

 

On 8/21/2022 at 10:43 AM, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

The reason competitive teams use spectre is because it is overpowered.

Further questions?

 

-Woosh-

*ducks* the kitten was that?

[Vinny.7260]

I'd argue the only problem with Specter is the shroud pool size. (150% of HP)?

I'd gladly accept the old Shroud gain if they just made the shroud squishier... Or just fixed the bug where you can't see the current shroud amount... Still an active bug since betas...

Not being able to know how much shroud the Specter has isn't exactly a balanced 'feature'. You basically have to hope that your prediction is correct on the size of the pool right at that moment.

Specter is also kinda the Swiss Army Knife of Thief specializations. It's like Holosmith like someone mentioned above. There's also the fact that the inherent design was thought up for the whole 'Healer GF/BF' concept. I'd definitely say get rid of that horrible bug first, then, if still over-performing, target the HP-to-Shroud scaling.

Also Bladesworn is only really obnoxious in a 1v1 scenario, it's so easy to interrupt the heal constantly, even if it's bugged and doesn't go on full CD. Just need to keep it locked down for a few seconds for it fall behind.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Vinny.7260
Added Bladesworn comment.

[Bazsi.2734]

I just find it funny that to be the best condi necro you can possibly be, you have to roll thief. That's it, no relevant commentary to the thread. Just pondering on how incredibly dumb and funny this is.

"Imagine scourge, but pre nerfs... and with an actual shroud... AND PURPLE! OH MY GOD YES PUT IT IN THE GAME, OH YES PURPLE LOOK AT IT IT'S SO PURPLE!"

[Mell.4873]

Meh specter does 0 damage on higher MMR. You can sit the AoE and take almost no damage and then they just blink away when you focus them 😑. I found a normal Daredevil Thief more threatening since at least they can one shot you.

[StefanB.4928]

Ive never seen these mythical specters that are harder to deal with than a top tier bladesworns. Who are they?