I'm honestly on the verge of quitting the game... again...

[Shrike Arghast.3856]

I don't expect hardcore/long time players to sympathize much with this post. But this is like the fourth time I have seriously tried to get into GW2's endgame and felt all my energy sapped right out of me by this enormous question mark regarding elite specializations.  I don't really want to quit. But, on the other hand, I'm not having a whole lot of fun with the daunting first-time post-80 grind.

I like to class-dabble in MMORPGs - it's just how I am. But, unfortunately, in GW2 you don't really get the chance to do that because of the way the elite specializations are both a) often significantly different in terms of playstyles from the core specs, and b) locked not only behind level 80, but ~15 hours of hero point grinding (and that's only if you have the mounts... which I do not). I've played the game to the soft cap off and on several times over the years, but every time ran into the buzzsaw of "oh, yay, and now to unlock the mounts by grinding masteries/story... just to grind hero points."

I can stomach pretty significant challenges in this genre - but I don't like going into big, lengthy efforts completely blind. Not even knowing whether or not I'm going to like an elite specialization before spending all the time to get it fully unlocked is a huge issue. Like, for example, holosmith looks kind of cool... but do I really want to gamble 15-20 hours on the chance that it might not suit me at all? Especially since I'm not a fan of how stock engineer plays (yeah, holosmith is very different - but I still have to grind through playing as the base engineer to get it). And yes, the first time through I would at least unlock the mounts... but you're still looking at a massive waste of a grind just to turn around and do the whole thing over again if the elite specialization doesn't suit.

I'm not trying to dunk on GW2. I love elements of this game - the art style, the world design, the cool way you're constantly bumping into other players. I even think the story is superior to FFXIV's (which... carries weight in some circles, although I never really thought FFXIV's story was any good... so... lol). But I just am losing all energy to continue... just like last time... and the time before that. And it's because of this murderous grind towards specializations I only might like.

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Shrike Arghast.3856

[yoni.7015]

Getting enough hero points to unlock the elite specializations is actually not a big deal. It’s definitely not a long grind and doesn’t take 15 - 20 hours. 

[Shuzuru.3651]

Hum... I don't really understand this post, you said you like the story, and that you didn't wanted to "grind" the mount. Then just play the story, you'll unlock all the required mount during it while enjoying the story. 

Also, 15-20 seem a lot for 250hero point, it's probably closer to 1-2hours max if you focus on it, so it's not that long

[Scalacious.4139]

Why not just go into the heart of the Mists / PvP Area, where every Elite is unlocked and test the gameplay on the target dummies and class NPCs there?

[Linken.6345]

Op I hope your not grinding core hero points that 1 each and do the expansion ones were you get 10 for each point you do

[firedragon.8953]

Nothing new to add. 

But...

It doesn't take 15-20 hours to unlock an elite spec. It takes about 2 hrs to get the need HP by either joining a HoT HP train (check lfg), or soloing PoF or EoD HPs.

You can get the "feel" of elite specs without doing much (getting an alt to lvl 3, I think?) by just playing some sPvP or practicing on the PvP lobby's golem. GW2 let's you play a new fully unlocked "class" easier than most (maybe all?) MMOs I've ever played.

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Shrike Arghast.3856 said:

I don't expect hardcore/long time players to sympathize much with this post. But this is like the fourth time I have seriously tried to get into GW2's endgame and felt all my energy sapped right out of me by this enormous question mark regarding elite specializations.  I don't really want to quit. But, on the other hand, I'm not having a whole lot of fun with the daunting first-time post-80 grind.

I like to class-dabble in MMORPGs - it's just how I am. But, unfortunately, in GW2 you don't really get the chance to do that because of the way the elite specializations are both a) often significantly different in terms of playstyles from the core specs, and b) locked not only behind level 80, but ~15 hours of hero point grinding (and that's only if you have the mounts... which I do not). I've played the game to the soft cap off and on several times over the years, but every time ran into the buzzsaw of "oh, yay, and now to unlock the mounts by grinding masteries/story... just to grind hero points."

I can stomach pretty significant challenges in this genre - but I don't like going into big, lengthy efforts completely blind. Not even knowing whether or not I'm going to like an elite specialization before spending all the time to get it fully unlocked is a huge issue. Like, for example, holosmith looks kind of cool... but do I really want to gamble 15-20 hours on the chance that it might not suit me at all? Especially since I'm not a fan of how stock engineer plays (yeah, holosmith is very different - but I still have to grind through playing as the base engineer to get it). And yes, the first time through I would at least unlock the mounts... but you're still looking at a massive waste of a grind just to turn around and do the whole thing over again if the elite specialization doesn't suit.

I'm not trying to dunk on GW2. I love elements of this game - the art style, the world design, the cool way you're constantly bumping into other players. I even think the story is superior to FFXIV's (which... carries weight in some circles, although I never really thought FFXIV's story was any good... so... lol). But I just am losing all energy to continue... just like last time... and the time before that. And it's because of this murderous grind towards specializations I only might like.

 

 

You can be effective even with Core specialisations.

You can test all the specialisation in the PvP lobby. (everything is unlocked there, and there is golems and NPC´s to fight.)

If you ask in a majorcity and tell people your new and need help with heropoints, im sure that some guy will team up with you and farm the heropoints. Shouldnt take longer than 2 hours maximum....

 

I have said this a million times and i say it again... gw2 is the least grindy game of them all. If you know how to, you can create, completly level, unlock all the heropoints and get a solid set of Exotics in 2 days. If this is a "murderous grind" for you..... you should reconsider, if MMO´s are what you want to play...

You have to ask for help... if you know how, this game is ezpz.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[SentriX.3209]

I leveled only 1 character to 80...the rest got boosted through Tomes of Knowledge. You can unlock any elite spec by doing half to 1 hour of Hero points or if you're doing WvW like me...use the notary of heroics.

[Cyninja.2954]

1. No where in this post do I see anything related to finding friends or guild mates or making any aspirations to get to know people to interact with. You are essentially treating this game like a single player game which you are growing bored of

 

2. Getting to level 80 does not take that much time, it's significantly faster than any other MMORPG. That said, getting to level 80 on any further characters beyond the first one should be even less of an issue. Tomes of Knowledge, mounts, enough gold for crafting, etc. It shouldn't be that big an issue really. That's without accounting for any level scrolls (which you might not have access to yet if you are sub 1 year player).

 

3. as pointed out by others, hero points certainly do not take 15 hours and if they do, you really need to read up, watch some guides and improve on your game play as well as game knowledge. There are enough guides around to tackle this. A straitforward approach would be to join hero point trains. Another approach would be to go for "easy" hero points which only require channeling or interacting with an object. By now there are enough of those around to fill close to 2 full elite specializations worth of points (if owning HoT, PoF and EoD).

 

4. if you are unsure if you will enjoy an elite specialization, enter the spvp area and give it a try there to see how it feels. All skills and elites are unlocked there from the get go. You can even use pvp stat amulets to simulate some of the attribute possibilities

 

If you are running into the same issue over and over again, maybe it's time to change your approach? I already mentioned socializing and joining a guild. That is most certainly a way to both help with many of the issues you have as well as maybe get some new inspirations as to what to do.

[Sarius.9285]

3 hours ago, Shrike Arghast.3856 said:

~15 hours of hero point grinding

more like 20-30 minutes per spec.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You get Raptor unlocked when a character hits any tier in multiples of 10 level, now. 

[Borked.6824]

If you're having burnout with elite specializations, you're certainly not going to enjoy much else in the game.  Legendary grinds being the zenith of that pain.   IMO, unpredictability or not, the specialization grind is the fun part.  I've leveled copy professions just for the sake of doing it over again.  Rewire your brain.  There are no other MMOs like this.

[Danikat.8537]

In addition to all the points already mentioned mounts (and all other masteries) are unlocked account wide so you only have to get each one once and then you can use them on all your characters, even before getting to level 80 so that shouldn't be delaying you getting hero points on alts. 

I've gone around on a fresh level 80 in whatever gear they got from level up rewards doing whichever PoF hero challenges I could find and it took me about 2 hours to get the 25 needed to fully train an elite spec. If I was following a guide or joined a hero point train it would probably be faster than that. Buy these days I use the testimonies of heroics I have saved up from WvW instead. 

[Gibson.4036]

7 hours ago, Shrike Arghast.3856 said:

I don't expect hardcore/long time players to sympathize much with this post. But this is like the fourth time I have seriously tried to get into GW2's endgame and felt all my energy sapped right out of me by this enormous question mark regarding elite specializations.  I don't really want to quit. But, on the other hand, I'm not having a whole lot of fun with the daunting first-time post-80 grind.

I like to class-dabble in MMORPGs - it's just how I am. But, unfortunately, in GW2 you don't really get the chance to do that because of the way the elite specializations are both a) often significantly different in terms of playstyles from the core specs, and b) locked not only behind level 80, but ~15 hours of hero point grinding (and that's only if you have the mounts... which I do not). I've played the game to the soft cap off and on several times over the years, but every time ran into the buzzsaw of "oh, yay, and now to unlock the mounts by grinding masteries/story... just to grind hero points."

I can stomach pretty significant challenges in this genre - but I don't like going into big, lengthy efforts completely blind. Not even knowing whether or not I'm going to like an elite specialization before spending all the time to get it fully unlocked is a huge issue. Like, for example, holosmith looks kind of cool... but do I really want to gamble 15-20 hours on the chance that it might not suit me at all? Especially since I'm not a fan of how stock engineer plays (yeah, holosmith is very different - but I still have to grind through playing as the base engineer to get it). And yes, the first time through I would at least unlock the mounts... but you're still looking at a massive waste of a grind just to turn around and do the whole thing over again if the elite specialization doesn't suit.

I'm not trying to dunk on GW2. I love elements of this game - the art style, the world design, the cool way you're constantly bumping into other players. I even think the story is superior to FFXIV's (which... carries weight in some circles, although I never really thought FFXIV's story was any good... so... lol). But I just am losing all energy to continue... just like last time... and the time before that. And it's because of this murderous grind towards specializations I only might like.

 

If it takes you 15 hours to unlock one espec you’re doing something wrong.

[Labjax.2465]

I feel you. For a game that is often alt-friendly, the elite specialization and (related to it) gearing for a build that uses an elite specialization process is honestly absurd. I've said it before on here I think, but I nearly quit the game when I came back to it early this year because I'd made this new elementalist (to get back into it fresh and try to learn it better than before) and I wanted to try a specific specialization with a specific build and it was this catch-22 of "to best get what I need, I need to play a crappy build in the meantime."

In the end, it was basically just feeling I had no other games I wanted to play and wanting to fill the time that got me to muddle through. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have gotten back into the game.

The inability to jump into a spec at suboptimal levels is strange. Like I'd be fine if I could jump into an elite spec with blue gear. I don't care about having the best stats right away, I just want to see how the builds work in practice. That experimenting with this comfortably is locked behind god knows how many hours to get full legendaries is just silly, when it's the newer player who will have tried less and the old old veteran player who will have already tried most spec flavors in the game by that point if playing alts is something they're into. It also still doesn't make it any easier getting hero points yet again.

That said, I recommend keeping an eye out for hero point trains in LFG if you want to get a spec unlocked faster. I believe some trains only require raptor, which can be obtained just from owning Path of Fire now, if I understand correctly how they changed it. I don't think the community solution here inherently solves the problem, but it's something to consider if you don't want to wait for anet to address this and still want to keep giving it a shot.

[Labjax.2465]

6 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

 

You can be effective even with Core specialisations.

You can test all the specialisation in the PvP lobby. (everything is unlocked there, and there is golems and NPC´s to fight.)

 

You can technically be effective with core specializations, but overall, they pretty much suck and getting used to them as the go-to at level 80 doesn't make a lot of sense when every meta spec uses elite specializations. This also means you won't be able to use most build guides.

And wouldn't testing specializations in PvP lobby just tell you how they are balanced for PvP?

[Cuks.8241]

Maybe just focus less on the goal and enjoy the ride. Because if you go through the story and the maps and you explore a little bit you should have pretty much everything at the end unlocked naturally. If Hot seems to hard for you go for Pof first because there you will get all the mounts and hero points are very easy (EOD  similar or even easier).

And once you are familiar with the game and have more resources from the 1st play through getting alts up to speed is a matter of a few hours.

[yoguil.7320]

9 hours ago, Shrike Arghast.3856 said:

... ~15 hours of hero point grinding (and that's only if you have the mounts... which I do not) ...

 

I'd recommend unlocking mounts first. Since you're aiming for elite specs in general and Holosmith in particular I assume you've bought at least PoF. PoF alone gives you 290 hero points, so more than enough for Holosmith. All PoF hero challenges are designed for solo players, the same goes for EoD and the 300 hero points there. HoT is different, about a third of the hero challenges there are real challenges if you try to solo them; with little (PoF or EoD level of combat involved) to no effort you can get 200 hero points out of HoT maps (240 if you participate in a successful Dragon's Stand meta).

I have more than 40 characters on my account, occasionally swapping out some old toon I got bored with and creating a new one. As others stated above, it's more like 2hrs to create a new character and farm the necessary hero points for an elite spec (including at least 30min to click through all the reward chests for levelling up with lvl60-boosts and Tomes of Knowledge). But it's only doable in that timeframe with mounts.

[Sobx.1758]

10 hours ago, Shrike Arghast.3856 said:

I don't expect hardcore/long time players to sympathize much with this post. But this is like the fourth time I have seriously tried to get into GW2's endgame and felt all my energy sapped right out of me by this enormous question mark regarding elite specializations.  I don't really want to quit. But, on the other hand, I'm not having a whole lot of fun with the daunting first-time post-80 grind.

I like to class-dabble in MMORPGs - it's just how I am. But, unfortunately, in GW2 you don't really get the chance to do that because of the way the elite specializations are both a) often significantly different in terms of playstyles from the core specs, and b) locked not only behind level 80, but ~15 hours of hero point grinding (and that's only if you have the mounts... which I do not). I've played the game to the soft cap off and on several times over the years, but every time ran into the buzzsaw of "oh, yay, and now to unlock the mounts by grinding masteries/story... just to grind hero points."

I can stomach pretty significant challenges in this genre - but I don't like going into big, lengthy efforts completely blind. Not even knowing whether or not I'm going to like an elite specialization before spending all the time to get it fully unlocked is a huge issue. Like, for example, holosmith looks kind of cool... but do I really want to gamble 15-20 hours on the chance that it might not suit me at all? Especially since I'm not a fan of how stock engineer plays (yeah, holosmith is very different - but I still have to grind through playing as the base engineer to get it). And yes, the first time through I would at least unlock the mounts... but you're still looking at a massive waste of a grind just to turn around and do the whole thing over again if the elite specialization doesn't suit.

I'm not trying to dunk on GW2. I love elements of this game - the art style, the world design, the cool way you're constantly bumping into other players. I even think the story is superior to FFXIV's (which... carries weight in some circles, although I never really thought FFXIV's story was any good... so... lol). But I just am losing all energy to continue... just like last time... and the time before that. And it's because of this murderous grind towards specializations I only might like.

I'd say you should ask yourself if you even like the game at all. If you do, you can easly unlock specialisations by simply playing through the game. If you don't, forcing yourself to unlock especs (which doesn't take as much/long as you think it does) won't suddenly make you like the game. You're basically complaining that you have to play the game, because that's also what unlocking especs is -it's all pretty much exploration and slapping mobs here and there. If that's somehow a huge issue for you, chances are you just don't like mmorpgs.

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

The inability to jump into a spec at suboptimal levels is strange.

No, leveling up in mmorpgs, as well as class changes or unlocking new specs after certain amoung of experience is not strange at all. It's rather... normal and expected.

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Like I'd be fine if I could jump into an elite spec with blue gear.

You can. You can unlock especs and then try it out with blue gear, I don't see what's stopping you from that. (except, as a small side-note: pretty sure in the not-so-distant-past you were complaining about testing builds with "exotics", so I wonder how you're ok with blue gear now? I mean, it's good that you're ok, I just wonder where that sudden change came from)

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I don't care about having the best stats right away, I just want to see how the builds work in practice. That experimenting with this comfortably is locked behind god knows how many hours to get full legendaries is just silly

...how is this "locked behind full legendaries"? Didn't you just say you'd be ok with jumping into it with blue gear? Am I misunderstanding what you wrote here or what is happening with this "blue gear would be ok, but testing is locked behind leggies"?

Edited August 19, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[azorean.1850]

We exagerating a bit too much arent we?

[Vavume.8065]

14 hours ago, Shrike Arghast.3856 said:

But I just am losing all energy to continue... just like last time... and the time before that. And it's because of this murderous grind towards specializations I only might like.

 

The game is largely grindfests, if that is not your thing then you are playing the wrong game. Even fishing is a grind...

[AliamRationem.5172]

7 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I feel you. For a game that is often alt-friendly, the elite specialization and (related to it) gearing for a build that uses an elite specialization process is honestly absurd. I've said it before on here I think, but I nearly quit the game when I came back to it early this year because I'd made this new elementalist (to get back into it fresh and try to learn it better than before) and I wanted to try a specific specialization with a specific build and it was this catch-22 of "to best get what I need, I need to play a crappy build in the meantime."

In the end, it was basically just feeling I had no other games I wanted to play and wanting to fill the time that got me to muddle through. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have gotten back into the game.

The inability to jump into a spec at suboptimal levels is strange. Like I'd be fine if I could jump into an elite spec with blue gear. I don't care about having the best stats right away, I just want to see how the builds work in practice. That experimenting with this comfortably is locked behind god knows how many hours to get full legendaries is just silly, when it's the newer player who will have tried less and the old old veteran player who will have already tried most spec flavors in the game by that point if playing alts is something they're into. It also still doesn't make it any easier getting hero points yet again.

That said, I recommend keeping an eye out for hero point trains in LFG if you want to get a spec unlocked faster. I believe some trains only require raptor, which can be obtained just from owning Path of Fire now, if I understand correctly how they changed it. I don't think the community solution here inherently solves the problem, but it's something to consider if you don't want to wait for anet to address this and still want to keep giving it a shot.

I don't understand this.  If you're fine testing in blue gear, why do you need legendary gear to test builds?  The stat selection is limited below exotic level, but most builds still work as long as you have the primary stats covered.  For example, power builds will work with berserker stats.  Condi builds will work with any set that has condition damage on it.

Here's an example.  All I did was slap on green condition damage gear.  Everything in the build was below 10 silver cost on TP right down to runes and sigils.  I ran my preferred fire/arcane open world solo build for condi weaver and was able to do what I do using my legendary set with stats like viper, trailblazer, or celestial.  Obviously, I get significantly better performance out of a build that has well thought-out synergy between runes, sigils, and stats, but aside from the performance gain the play style is exactly the same.

[Kori Jenkins.9017]

15 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

You get Raptor unlocked when a character hits any tier in multiples of 10 level, now. 

The basic raptor isn't really that useful and won't allow him to keep up with any HP train he joins. 

18 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Nothing new to add. 

But...

It doesn't take 15-20 hours to unlock an elite spec. It takes about 2 hrs to get the need HP by either joining a HoT HP train (check lfg), or soloing PoF or EoD HPs.

You can get the "feel" of elite specs without doing much (getting an alt to lvl 3, I think?) by just playing some sPvP or practicing on the PvP lobby's golem. GW2 let's you play a new fully unlocked "class" easier than most (maybe all?) MMOs I've ever played.

He's already stated he doesn't have leveled mounts. Keeping up with any HP train is going to be impossible without them, as a large amount of people have finished their skyscales and fully mastered every mount. 

 

His realistic options are to do just the commune HoT HPs, whichever PoF HPs he can do without the mounts (and a fair amount require them for navigating the terrain, especially when you get to Elon Musklands), grind WvW for proofs, or simply do the slog of the PoF story without an elite spec. 

 

It's entirely understandable why he's frustrated if you've played on a brand new account recently. Basic raptor, which sucks, and no gliding. Navigating the terrain has become so easy with masteries that I feel a lot of us have forgotten just how painful it used to be. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Gliding is automatically unlocked with End of Dragons, as well as Raptor and Springer. 

[Vayne.8563]

If you're on a US server, I'll help you unlock an elite spec. Take a couple of hours, if that's all we're doing.