The existing Tutorial achievement category has been deprecated and moved to the Historical category for anyone who has already completed them [Merged]

[phantom.1675]

4 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

But they have removed achievements in the past before I did them. Shrugs.

Like in season 1? This applies to everyone in the game - nobody on the AP leaderboard has all achievements.

 

You are making a flawed argument which is "Just because they did X before, it's fine they keep doing it."

 

It's always sucked when they remove AP - just cuz you were a "victim" of this doesn't meant you shouldn't give a kitten when it happens again. And if you don't give a kitten, great, that doesn't mean others should agree with you.

4 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If you told your kids you were taking them to the movies and had to work late and there was no choice, did you lie?

 

According to your kids, yes you did lie. And while it's unlikely your kids are going to go find new parents, customers can easily find new companies to do business with.

[Vayne.8563]

30 minutes ago, phantom.1675 said:

Like in season 1? This applies to everyone in the game - nobody on the AP leaderboard has all achievements.

 

You are making a flawed argument which is "Just because they did X before, it's fine they keep doing it."

 

It's always sucked when they remove AP - just cuz you were a "victim" of this doesn't meant you shouldn't give a kitten when it happens again. And if you don't give a kitten, great, that doesn't mean others should agree with you.

 

According to your kids, yes you did lie. And while it's unlikely your kids are going to go find new parents, customers can easily find new companies to do business with.

So you think my only example is Season 1?  Why try to malign me with incomplete information. Here's the wiki page with a list of Retired Achievements

Retired Achievements - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

 

It starts with influence for guilds, then there's the achievement for the jumping puzzle Garnet Sanctum, which everyone thought was permanent until they replaced the red map in WvW with the Desert Borderlands. Oh look, review in game hints has been removed, which was one of the original tutorials.  Gee it looks like as they remove tutorials they take away the achievements. This isn't even the first time.  

 

They've always removed the Illustrious Legend achievement. The three sets of miniature collections. The list goes on and on. 

You can say they shouldn't do it again, but you can't say there isn't precedent or it hasn't been done before. Therefore, it's not a betrayal. 

 

Now this is the definition of lie from the Cambridge English Dictionary:

 

"to say or write something that is not true in order to deceive someone"

Do you see the part where it says in order to deceive someone? So in the example I gave above, even if the kids, too young to really understand the world, would call it a lie, the fact is, it's not a lie by definition. You don't really get to make up new definitions of words because you want to. Words already have definitions.

 

Now, we see that achievements, including the old tutorial achievement have been removed before, so this is neither a betrayal nor is it a lie.  It's very simply someone over reacting to something that's been going on in the game for ages.

MMOs change. Sometimes we like the changes, sometimes we don't.  But at the end of the day, an achievement being retired is a known quantity.

If you don't like that, start a movement, gathering some people, and protest. But you an absolutely do that without unnecessary hyperbole, or changing the definition of words.

[Jirian.7512]

4 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You can say they shouldn't do it again, but you can't say there isn't precedent or it hasn't been done before. Therefore, it's not a betrayal. 

 

 

you mean you can only betray someone once? now interesting approach.....

 

 

and as much as people are indeed overreacting, this is quite clearly one of the things that shows how much care Anet has for their playerbase: 0.

 

 

[Ashantara.8731]

On 8/23/2022 at 6:42 PM, phantom.1675 said:

Why not just add it back or list it as an older tutorial system? I want my equal access to AP.

There are other old achievements that got retired before I had a chance to complete them, as I took a longer break at the time.

I would like to be able to complete those, too. Shame we can't.

[Myriada.7580]

I got the achievements and I'm still disappointed they got removed. The list of unavailable AP is quite disheartening for new players who enjoy completion.

If they're really adamant about not having "duplicate" categories, they could do like with the daily/monthly AP: you can get AP from both the old retired and new systems up to a certain amount (the 125AP the Tutorial used to give for example). They could implement this for many festivals as well, before we got the current format there were hundreds of AP locked behind the especific versions of 2012 and so on.

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Jirian.7512 said:

 

you mean you can only betray someone once? now interesting approach.....

 

 

and as much as people are indeed overreacting, this is quite clearly one of the things that shows how much care Anet has for their playerbase: 0.

 

 

Well, no, it's not like that at all. The premise is much simpler, but some people are so attached to their point of view that they would rather argue to defend bad language than just ask for what they want.

 

It's like this.

 

Anet  makes certain achievements historical and a small percentage of the playerbase complains about it. There aren't front page of reddit posts after all. The first page of this got 12 likes and 1 thank you. It's hardly a major issue that affects the bulk of the playerbase so strongly that it's anathema to do it again.

 

The precedent is set and a few people don't like it, just like a few people don't like when they nerf ele.  It's not the kind of outcry we got from say the Dragons End meta, or the kind of outcry we got from Mount Skins, both of which were addressed at least partially by Anet.

Anet has been doing something since launch, which you and others don't agree with, but doing it again without saying they're never going to do it again, means it's not betrayal to do it again. It's just a policy you and a dozen people like you on this forum have agreed you don't like.

 

Anet didn't write you a letter and promise you something. Anet doesn't even know who you are? Have you personally complained about them removing achievements before? Did anyone else in this thread?

You not liking something doesn't mean when it happens Anet betrayed you. They simply did something they'd don't before that you happen to disagree with, perhaps strongly disagree with and that's okay. I don't have a problem with that. 

What I do have a problem with is people using language as a weapon. They betrayed me? How, by doing something they've been doing all along, for which there was minimal opposition?

 

Anet lied to me? In order to lie you first have to make a statement that turns out not to be true. Anet not only didn't make that statement, but due to their history of removing achievements, they didn't even mislead you. You simply chose to believe something with insufficient evidence. I fail to see how that equals either a betrayal or lie.

I'd upvote a person saying they removed these points and I don't like it. I'd upvote a person that said we should have had warning. I completely agree Anet should be communicating about this sort of achievement before they remove it. 

I don't agree with saying Anet lied when they didn't and I don't agree with saying Anet somehow betrayed you. What they did was make a decision you didn't like. 

Misquoting what I'm saying doesn't make your argument any stronger.  And the hyperbole does nothing but dim your argument because it's obviously untrue. However, unlike certain others, I won't actually say you lied. I'll just assume you were mistaken. 

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

12 hours ago, Lama.2735 said:

Furthermore, they removed the old Tutorial (Mastery) achievements so that is another 150 AP gone from the grand AP pool.

AP alone aren't even the main problem. The original tutorial mastery achievements had actually a number of quite useful rewards like a 10-slot bag, 2x boxes of a level 10 weapon choice, some karma pots, a 14-day lounge pass and a bunch of boosters that funnily enough were more useful later at max. level than during leveling.

So far I only noticed that I'm about 70 AP short of the 100 point achievement chest at the same stage of leveling when I typically got that one around level 9 on my old accounts. That was usually a nice boost in gold and also gave a 2nd 10-slot bag. Now I'm level 14 on my Steam F2P-account at that point, broke and without any free decent sized bags.

Looking at my old accounts, it's also quite annoying that a mid-level character (30 - 50) pretty much has to go "back" to searching for scouts and other stuff, even a new player typically ignores after playing longer than a couple of hours to unlock the appropriate tier of the character guide for that character.

[Waffler.1257]

The old tutorial achievements should be added back, not sure what the reasoning was behind this change. The new player guide achievements or whatever they are called are very annoying. I play several different characters and since they need to be completed on each character I have achievements non-stop exploding on my screen, every time I swap a weapon, every time I attack something, every time I even just pick up some barb or other trash loot more and more achievements exploding on my screen non-stop. The whole thing is highly obnoxious, not sure who in the world thought this was good design.

[Kalavier.1097]

The tutorial achievements were nice, but the gear specific parts of them weren't working that well. Scrap the helm box/helm before binding it? RIP to you, it's going to be ages before you may get it as a drop as it's from 1-9 level areas only and is a random, low percent drop. It was the thing I hadn't finished in there, and was so annoying as I had gotten rid of the armor boxes because I had no idea about them (as I was high level at the time they got introduced).

[Cronospere.8143]

1 hour ago, Waffler.1257 said:

The old tutorial achievements should be added back, not sure what the reasoning was behind this change. The new player guide achievements or whatever they are called are very annoying. I play several different characters and since they need to be completed on each character I have achievements non-stop exploding on my screen, every time I swap a weapon, every time I attack something, every time I even just pick up some barb or other trash loot more and more achievements exploding on my screen non-stop. The whole thing is highly obnoxious, not sure who in the world thought this was good design.

That is only a few times.. yes it might be a little annoying for the level 80 players. But this doesnt go on for days... cmon you will forgot they were there in a month...

[Myriada.7580]

I'm saddened by the ever increasing amount of retired AP. I know not the majority of players like collecting every single last point, but for those who do it's very frustrating knowing that no matter how hard you grind there will always be a couple thousand points beyond our reach for the simple fact you didn't start early enough.

I'll repeat my suggestion here in case it has more visibility, but please give the monthly/daily combined AP cap treatment to other achievements. That is, let us earn AP from two sources: the old and retired one, and a new currently available one. In this case the Tutorial achievements retired in this last patch and the new Adventure Guide would count towards a shared 125AP cap. It could be extended to festival achievements as well.

 

[Infamous NX.6349]

The fact that they removed the ability for completion of an apparently permanent achievement without any prior warning raises my concerns, which achievements retire next. Old pvp achievements? Keg Brawl? Or even some item collections? Which one should i finish soon, so i wont miss it? Was that your intention?

 

Its very frustrating if you spend hours and days catching the last fish for collection or spend 1000gold for 5 AP if 125 potential AP get just wiped (for those people that haven't fished them yet).

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Infamous NX.6349

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

4 hours ago, Waffler.1257 said:

The whole thing is highly obnoxious, not sure who in the world thought this was good design.

Judging from all the a/b-testing ANet did during the last months, my educated guess is that they wanted a way to speed up leveling without a flat increase in XP. Personally I managed to casually level an F2P account to 80 just by exploring Queensdale, most cities and doing the complete set of tutorial masteries within ~26h, because I was lucky to score a hidden 200% XP buff. The current system at least forces people out in the world, doing stuff that is more engaging then running from PoI to PoI in the starter zones.

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

The tutorial achievements were nice, but the gear specific parts of them weren't working that well. Scrap the helm box/helm before binding it? RIP to you, it's going to be ages before you may get it as a drop as it's from 1-9 level areas only and is a random, low percent drop.

If I remember correctly, the drop rate for the on-boarding armor set was much higher for low-level characters than max. level ones, especially if the achievement wasn't finished yet. I did it on my main account on my key-farming alt while going from 1 to 10 in Queensdale without much need for grinding, despite those boxes never dropping on my original 80s before.

Funny side-effect of the removal of the achievement is that those boxes now drop left and right on any lowbie it seems. My (F2P) level 14 guardian has enough boxes for three more sets in the bank now.  Same with the food/sharpening stone that was bought for karma, it's now available in virtually unlimited amounts, since eating it doesn't grant the achievement anymore.

[Glacial.9516]

I've long been in favor of retired achievement AP being merged with the Daily AP cap. Which is to say when achievements are retired, the Dailies AP cap is increased by the same amount and any of the retired achievements AP that you've earned is added to your dailies total. This way it is technically possible for people to 'catch up' and makeup the missed AP from retired achievements even if it will take some time to get there.

[Kulvar.1239]

Retired achievements should have their points merged into the daily points cap so new players have a chance to one day catch up.

Or just let them be available. They were not harming anything. Or merge them with the new achievements.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Kulvar.1239

[Peter Panda.5629]

18 minutes ago, Glacial.9516 said:

I've long been in favor of retired achievement AP being merged with the Daily AP cap. Which is to say when achievements are retired, the Dailies AP cap is increased by the same amount and any of the retired achievements AP that you've earned is added to your dailies total. This way it is technically possible for people to 'catch up' and makeup the missed AP from retired achievements even if it will take some time to get there.

Okay, I actually love this. This gives the studio the freedom to remove unwanted achievements while still maintaining the integrity of the system. I think it's a win-win.

[Cronospere.8143]

1 hour ago, Glacial.9516 said:

I've long been in favor of retired achievement AP being merged with the Daily AP cap. Which is to say when achievements are retired, the Dailies AP cap is increased by the same amount and any of the retired achievements AP that you've earned is added to your dailies total. This way it is technically possible for people to 'catch up' and makeup the missed AP from retired achievements even if it will take some time to get there.

That... could work. I like the idea.

The only problem is that when they reintroduce the retired achievements (LS1 for example) they arent available anymore.

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Glacial.9516 said:

I've long been in favor of retired achievement AP being merged with the Daily AP cap. Which is to say when achievements are retired, the Dailies AP cap is increased by the same amount and any of the retired achievements AP that you've earned is added to your dailies total. This way it is technically possible for people to 'catch up' and makeup the missed AP from retired achievements even if it will take some time to get there.

Okay now this is an idea I can get behind.  This is brilliant.

[Lama.2735]

2 hours ago, Glacial.9516 said:

I've long been in favor of retired achievement AP being merged with the Daily AP cap. Which is to say when achievements are retired, the Dailies AP cap is increased by the same amount and any of the retired achievements AP that you've earned is added to your dailies total. This way it is technically possible for people to 'catch up' and makeup the missed AP from retired achievements even if it will take some time to get there.

A very solid compromise.  I will take that over the silliness we received with the Character Adventure Spam.  I want AP to mean something and this can be a great solution.  

[Nightmaria.8316]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:26 PM, Vayne.8563 said:

If you told your kids you were taking them to the movies and had to work late and there was no choice, did you lie? No. The circumstance changed.  It really is that simple. Hyperbole makes arguments weaker, because reasonable people will simply close off.

 

An obligation to work does not mean that a family fun night is off the table. That means it was merely postponed. The parental guardian in question doesn't have a choice.

 

ANET had a choice. They decided to mistreat their players once again. No one told them they had to remove the achievement that actually gave a decent reward IF you could complete it in spite of the problems like the RNG issues. They made the choice to replace it with this useless per character spam that does nothing but annoy.

 

The devs don't even play their own game. If they did they wouldn't make such choices.

 

Doesn't take a whole lot to figure that out.

 

And it still makes no sense that a normal player would defend a game company making such choices. Repeatedly.

[Vayne.8563]

3 hours ago, Nightmaria.8316 said:

 

An obligation to work does not mean that a family fun night is off the table. That means it was merely postponed. The parental guardian in question doesn't have a choice.

 

ANET had a choice. They decided to mistreat their players once again. No one told them they had to remove the achievement that actually gave a decent reward IF you could complete it in spite of the problems like the RNG issues. They made the choice to replace it with this useless per character spam that does nothing but annoy.

 

The devs don't even play their own game. If they did they wouldn't make such choices.

 

Doesn't take a whole lot to figure that out.

 

And it still makes no sense that a normal player would defend a game company making such choices. Repeatedly.

Mistreat their players?  ALL their players or you and the four guys complaining in this thread.  YOU don't like what Anet did. Some other people don't like what Anet did. I too missed some achievements that were retired in this game and I felt a bit disappointed but I didn't see it as a betrayal and I didn't see it as being mistreated, because I know stuff changes in MMOs.  The truth of the matter is this is a storm in a tea cup whether five guys give me little confused faces or not.   Some devs do play their game. You're just putting them in one basket. I know this because I've played with some of them. And that's irrelevant to this entire converation anyway.

You're mad. He's mad. She's mad. That's three people who are mad. That's not the playerbase. It's a few players who are annoyed by a change that's been made before.  And if you approached the complain in a measured and reasonable fashion more people might have had sympathy, but the sort of hyperbole makes reasonable people walk away.

I don't disagree what we should have had warning, but a year from now, no one will care, except maybe you. They made a decision you don't like. They've made decisions I don't like. I've even complained about those decisions.

But I  haven't seen a thread on the first page of reddit indicating that this is a major issue no matter how strongly you personally feel about it.  I'm not even 100% against what you're saying, but I am against how you're saying it.  If that's not good enough for you, that's fine. You've lost my support simply by refusing to see that there was a better way to say what you were saying that might have garnered more support.

[Gorem.8104]

23 hours ago, Glacial.9516 said:

I've long been in favor of retired achievement AP being merged with the Daily AP cap. Which is to say when achievements are retired, the Dailies AP cap is increased by the same amount and any of the retired achievements AP that you've earned is added to your dailies total. This way it is technically possible for people to 'catch up' and makeup the missed AP from retired achievements even if it will take some time to get there.

 

Or they could bring monthly achievements back ;D 

[aikatara.3462]

I deliberately took my time with these old tutorial achievements. I though I'll make them with new toons, so it will be more fun. Would I have known that they are temporary I would have made them immediately. It is apparently a mistake to save achievements you could do immediately for later.  Instead now constant pop-ups will accompany my gameplay from the new tutorial thingy. I have a lot of characters and always make new onces. I am already tired of the constant "ping ping" at the side after playing for 6 hours, and I only used 3 of my 35 characters.  Please, please let me disable the new tutorial thing accound wide. I don't need it for all my characters, once is enough.

[KRUSSIDULL.6845]

The removal hurt, I saved these achievements for whenever I make another toon. I have almost have all achievements including from past festivals and living story that we knew was temporary.
I feel cheated because achievements was removed thinking they were permanent. I know I sound dramatic and all but achievements is my goal in this game to collect as many as possible even if we are in the minority I hope Anet listens and let us get them again somehow. 

[Shadowmoon.7986]

On 8/25/2022 at 2:39 AM, Vayne.8563 said:

So you think my only example is Season 1?  Why try to malign me with incomplete information. Here's the wiki page with a list of Retired Achievements

Retired Achievements - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

 

It starts with influence for guilds, then there's the achievement for the jumping puzzle Garnet Sanctum, which everyone thought was permanent until they replaced the red map in WvW with the Desert Borderlands. Oh look, review in game hints has been removed, which was one of the original tutorials.  Gee it looks like as they remove tutorials they take away the achievements. This isn't even the first time.  

 

They've always removed the Illustrious Legend achievement. The three sets of miniature collections. The list goes on and on. 

You can say they shouldn't do it again, but you can't say there isn't precedent or it hasn't been done before. Therefore, it's not a betrayal. 

 

Now this is the definition of lie from the Cambridge English Dictionary:

 

"to say or write something that is not true in order to deceive someone"

Do you see the part where it says in order to deceive someone? So in the example I gave above, even if the kids, too young to really understand the world, would call it a lie, the fact is, it's not a lie by definition. You don't really get to make up new definitions of words because you want to. Words already have definitions.

 

Now, we see that achievements, including the old tutorial achievement have been removed before, so this is neither a betrayal nor is it a lie.  It's very simply someone over reacting to something that's been going on in the game for ages.

MMOs change. Sometimes we like the changes, sometimes we don't.  But at the end of the day, an achievement being retired is a known quantity.

If you don't like that, start a movement, gathering some people, and protest. But you an absolutely do that without unnecessary hyperbole, or changing the definition of words.

As an ap hunter, i can tell you most of those examples the changes were announced in advance (the miniture achievements) or implied (old pvp seasons legendary titles and adding desert bl to remove garrnet sanctum).  In past anet used to announce permanent removals for example pvp glory and spider path ta.