Anet you seriously must nerf Sunqua Peak boss

[Mitakuye Oyasin.6159]

When I play fractals with beginner most of the time we do all fractals smooth and easy, but with this boss the group dies like 5 times before we finish the boss, is not even normal, are they all bad players? No, it's just a poorly designed boss, who also gets bugged frequently especially in the storm phase, and most of the players I know newbies and experts are avoiding this fractal because it's gruelling long and hard and it's not worth the reward, just saying.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Mitakuye Oyasin.6159

[yoni.7015]

If your group wipes five times at the boss then the problem is your group. The boss is not really that hard.
 I can’t remember my last wipe at the boss in normal mode. 
But yeah, the fractal is a bit too long. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by yoni.7015

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Other than the length there is nothing wrong with Sunqua. It's a straightforward Fractal.
If you are wiping you may want to look out for attacks that hit you, but most importantly check if you have enough AR or not.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

You need to learn the mechanics, its no more difficult than all the other bosses it just has more mechanics. For example, many players don't know that in the water whirlwind phase, projectiles get reflected, so its common for a Machinist to wipe out their entire party because they won't stop shooting.

 

General - CC in center, after spread mechanic, never at side, use ranged damage when possible, and favor condition builds. Try to avoid power melee damage except after CC check.

Phase 1 - Straightforward.

Phase 2 - Prespread when she flies up, grab orbs while dodging lightning and clear all locations. This phase is very dependant on movement speed and abilities. Don't ress anyone whose down until after its over.

Phase 3 - Stack on fire icon, move side ways as meteors drop to avoid the shockwaves, or just jump or dodge over them, then stack at the final rock (the others will disintegrate). Continue to attack with ranged damage in this phase. You must only be touching the rock, not behind it.

Phase 4 - Move to the outside when it starts, usually to water icon, then move to center, always as a group. Move in the tether to take it from other players, then move back to give it to someone else (it takes closest target), making sure that no one reaches ten stacks. Share greens with allies.

Phase 5 - Move to the outside, stack, and heal each other while avoiding the AoE attacks. The further out you are, the easier they to avoid. Rotate around each other to take tethers, and share greens. Don't try to ress someone who goes down (unless you're Necro or Ranger and can pull them) and floats into the whirlwind. Don't attack with projectiles, only instant hit (Necro axe, Druid staff  etc.).

 

Major causes of wipes:

- CCing at side instead of center, which makes you unable to interrupt her anti-melee attack, or worse failing the check entirely due to not slotting crowd control abilities. This boss has both and a CC and DPS check in the center area, and they must be completed at the same time to clear it.

- Trying to rezz during lightning phase, which stacks AoEs on you both.

- Trying to rezz during whirlwind phase, which makes you float to your death as well, as she does massive damage to anyone who gets close to the center area.

- Using projectiles during whirlwind phase, especially on a high DPS build, Even moreso if they're AoE attacks that will severely damage your party (Jade Mortar @ 20k).

- Not taking tether from allies and just standing still until they hit max stacks and explode.

 

If you can manage all these but other players can't, then put DoD in your LFG requirements. This is a lesser version of DwD that just means someone cleared the CM successfully, which is multiple times harder than the normal version (which is already difficult for low-skilled players).

 

This sounds harsh, but Sunqua T4 CM is about 10x the difficulty of Sunqua T1, and players clear it all the time. Its an L2P issue, and until you realise this, you won't get better at the game.

 

Like most encounters, this can be hard-carried by a HealScouge, even if the group is all newbies.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Danikat.8537]

I agree that it's a matter of knowing the mechanics. I did this a lot earlier in the year when I was making Ad Infinitum, always with random PUG groups and the difference between an attempt where everyone knew what to do and one where they tried to carry on as normal was massive. I've even seen a group go from repeated quick wipes to clearing it in one go just because someone took the time to write instruction in chat before starting and at the start of each phase.

There are exceptions of course. One run we had someone who no matter how many times he was told what to do, especially standing behind the rocks during the meteor phase, he ignored it and just tried to keep hammering away at the boss. It turned out to be easier to leave him dead and finish it with 4 than keep risking other people to revive him.

But most of the time people who don't know what to do just...don't know. Once they do know, either from trial and error or someone telling them, they're able to do it correctly.

[SuavePuppy.2809]

2 hours ago, Mitakuye Oyasin.6159 said:

No, it's just a poorly designed boss

Everyone thinks they are a game design expert these days. Even moreso when they can't beat a boss. I typically don't see people complain about Sunqua of all things though, especially cause it was kind of supposed to be equal to or surpass the other high level fractals. There are many things you can brute force your way through, I guess this isn't one of them.

[Labjax.2465]

2 hours ago, SuavePuppy.2809 said:

Everyone thinks they are a game design expert these days. Even moreso when they can't beat a boss. I typically don't see people complain about Sunqua of all things though, especially cause it was kind of supposed to be equal to or surpass the other high level fractals. There are many things you can brute force your way through, I guess this isn't one of them.

You don't need to be an expert in a field to spot problems with something. What metric we are judging by matters though. Personally, if I was judging it by "intuitive to understand and limited/pointed in its mechanics, so that it's not overwhelming, but still requires skill and awareness to execute," I would say it is poor by this metric because there is too much going on, too senselessly punishing on one style of play (melee), not particularly intuitive as to how to handle it, and drags on too long. It kind of reminds me of turtle strike in that way. More annoying than what I'd call hard.

[A Hamster.2580]

44 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

You don't need to be an expert in a field to spot problems with something. What metric we are judging by matters though. Personally, if I was judging it by "intuitive to understand and limited/pointed in its mechanics, so that it's not overwhelming, but still requires skill and awareness to execute," I would say it is poor by this metric because there is too much going on, too senselessly punishing on one style of play (melee), not particularly intuitive as to how to handle it, and drags on too long. It kind of reminds me of turtle strike in that way. More annoying than what I'd call hard.

I just rewatch a POV of sunqua fractal on youtube and at most there can be two mechanics happening at the same time. Most of the fight, it's just one mechanic happening. If you think this to be overwhelming, you just need more practice. They even force you to go through the 3 mini bosses so you would know what to expect in the final fight. I remember it only taking 2 pulls for me to understand the entire fight without watching or reading any guide beforehand.

 

5 hours ago, Mitakuye Oyasin.6159 said:

When I play fractals with beginner most of the time we do all fractals smooth and easy, but with this boss the group dies like 5 times before we finish the boss, is not even normal, are they all bad players? No, it's just a poorly designed boss, who also gets bugged frequently especially in the storm phase, and most of the players I know newbies and experts are avoiding this fractal because it's gruelling long and hard and it's not worth the reward, just saying.

In my experience, it only requires one experienced raider to hard carry the other four. If your group is consistently dying over and over, I would say all of you should try easier fractals and improve some more before trying Sunqua.

The experts avoid this as a recommended fractal because of the three mini bosses that they cannot skip unlike in the CM version. The gold per hour makes it not worth doing. I read a lot of experts would agree that the main fight itself is decent.

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 hours ago, Mitakuye Oyasin.6159 said:

When I play fractals with beginner most of the time we do all fractals smooth and easy, but with this boss the group dies like 5 times before we finish the boss, is not even normal, are they all bad players? No, it's just a poorly designed boss, who also gets bugged frequently especially in the storm phase, and most of the players I know newbies and experts are avoiding this fractal because it's gruelling long and hard and it's not worth the reward, just saying.

I don't know what you want to call it, but the reason your groups are struggling with this fractal is that they don't understand the mechanics.  I find it's almost always the water phase that causes issues.  Inexperienced players don't watch their stacks and react appropriately and they spam projectiles during the whirlwind phase, both of which can easily cause a wipe.

I think the boss is good.  I just wish I didn't have to clear through three pointless training bosses just to get there.  At least the CM version lets you cut straight to the boss.  This is probably why experienced players avoid the normal mode.

 

[Izzy.2951]

no

[Cyninja.2954]

9 hours ago, Mitakuye Oyasin.6159 said:

When I play fractals with beginner most of the time we do all fractals smooth and easy, but with this boss the group dies like 5 times before we finish the boss, is not even normal, are they all bad players?

I'd say: 

Very good. Dieing 5 times and then succeeding means players took away some experience and improved.

Why exactly should every encounter be beaten first try?

9 hours ago, Mitakuye Oyasin.6159 said:

No, it's just a poorly designed boss,

Is it really though, or is this just you venting?

9 hours ago, Mitakuye Oyasin.6159 said:

who also gets bugged frequently especially in the storm phase, and most of the players I know newbies and experts are avoiding this fractal because it's gruelling long and hard and it's not worth the reward, just saying.

I agree on the issue of bugs, especially because they can cause probelms for inexperienced players by making understanding the fight harder.

The rest, your personal bias and player preference. If some players chose to skip content they find to challenging, that is their right.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Fuchslein.8639]

There is a reason why so many people skip this fractal, even in t4. But hey, Just lets pretend everything is okay.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

There is a reason why so many people skip this fractal, even in t4. But hey, Just lets pretend everything is okay.

People tend to skip Fractals that are not Daily.

[zeyeti.8347]

11 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

For example, many players don't know that in the water whirlwind phase, projectiles get reflected, so its common for a Machinist to wipe out their entire party because they won't stop shooting.

Are you serioulsy asking a  pew pew mech to think ? 

The only time a lot of people skip it , it's because they made the challenge of it , then see this frac is up again in t3 recommended and dont want to loose their time on it , one of the main reason people dont want to do recommended .

And people also skip it cause the normal mode is freaking long and not interesting at all. 

So if it's daily t4 , do it in challenge , it's very short , i know .. i am a duche 😁.

[Nazarick.9653]

Tbh, this fractal only poses a problem in T1,2,3 because it's such a step-up and the experience isn't there. And when you're at level 25/50/75 it's possible to skip it entirely by doing a low one from the next tier up.  At T4, I've rarely had any trouble with the Spellcaster.  (the marble boss in 99 is more of an issue)

 

It was a weird move to create this fractal in the first place, given Anet's record on ignoring old content...never mind making it a lot longer and harder than any other fractal (like comparing Arah to other dungeons, but not as extreme). And then putting the T3 version on the same day as the daily (not meant to happen) and also making it appear twice in the 15-day rec rotation (not meant to happen).  But as soon as you realise that it's set in Cantha, it all makes sense. (esp. as the fractal was originally going to continue Arkk's storyline)

 

[costepj.5120]

The reason it is long is because there is a different encounter to teach you every one of the required mechanics. Which I guess is a bit tedious if you know the mechanics already. But if you progress through each encounter and apply what you learn, then there is no reason to wipe on the end boss.

[Virdo.1540]

Imo sunqua as "highest fractal" should be even harder... despite the fact that sirens reef is harder than sunqua, its not anywhere in need of a nerf in difficulty

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

People tend to skip Fractals that are not Daily.

They skip it when it's in daily though.

[soulknight.9620]

L2p issue, move along people. Ive seen first timers clear it with ease. The mechanics are well telegraphed. There is enough time to react to a mechanic. The only thing that kinda is bad with sunqua is time/profit. In other words its too long for the reward it brings. Other than that there is no problem with sunqua. 

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

They skip it when it's in daily though.

I believe the argument is:

Players skip non daily fractals because they don't feel rewarded enough for doing all of them, which makes sense given the increased amount of reward for dailies.

The same argument can be applied here:

If players skip certain fractals when they are daily, they don't feel the reward justifies the effort. Notice that this does not only apply to Sunqua or  100CM but also other challenging fractals like Siren's Reef normal.

The fact that some players are willing or unwilling to complete content for the reward alone is no significant metric. There is players who refuse to do fractals completely, and that too is not a metric for or against fractals.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Mic.1897]

7 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

There is a reason why so many people skip this fractal, even in t4. But hey, Just lets pretend everything is okay.

Length

Not a Daily

[Fuchslein.8639]

5 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

People tend to skip Fractals that are not Daily.

People skip this WHEN it's daily. Because it's too Long when you don't can't do the disco Epilepsie  Fight that is called cm.

[Fuchslein.8639]

49 minutes ago, Mic.1897 said:

Length

Not a Daily

Where did i say otherwise? I Just Said people skip this fractal most Times. If for lenght or the difficulty is irrelevant. It's a useless fractal which Most people don't Like.

[Silent.6137]

18 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Phase 5 - Move to the outside, stack, and heal each other while avoiding the AoE attacks. The further out you are, the easier they to avoid. Rotate around each other to take tethers, and share greens. Don't try to ress someone who goes down (unless you're Necro or Ranger and can pull them) and floats into the whirlwind. Don't attack with projectiles, only instant hit (Necro axe, Druid staff  etc.).

 

 

Newbie groups tends to wipe out at this phase most often. I often see inexperienced players (and also many experienced players) try to dance around sharing stacks 1/2 way to the center where it's harder to avoid the AoEs and getting sucked in.

It is only a very short phase. Hug the wall and stack there. Lots of room to avoid AoEs and share the tether. Don't bother attacking or rezzing anyone. Wait for whirlwind to dissipate and then attack.

-----

It is not a difficult Fractal, just a bit too long especially when it's both Daily and Recs. (CHANGE the rotations, Anet. Just need to move the Recs back 1 day in the rotation and they won't appear as Daily and Recs on the same day anymore).

Too often newbies rushed through T1 to T3 so they can do T4 without understanding any of the mechanics involved in any of the Fractals because of the potential drops. When you have 2 or 3 in the team, that is often a recipe for disaster.

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

They skip it when it's in daily though.

 

1 hour ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

People skip this WHEN it's daily.

I do Fractals virtually daily and have never seen it skipped when it's daily and/or Recs. Maybe it's because I don't join Lfg listings that don't do the full T4's.

Listing that don't list full Dailys will usually have lots of problems with wiping. Someone rage-quit after doing one or two of the three.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Silent.6137

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

People skip this WHEN it's daily. Because it's too Long when you don't can't do the disco Epilepsie  Fight that is called cm.

Are you confusing Rec and Daily? Unless every Fractal player decided to not do T4 Sunqua anymore a month ago I highly doubt that people skip Sunqua. The only thing that gets skipped is T3 RECOMMENDED Sunqua when the Daily is Sunqua as well.

Besides, CM is not as hard as you think.