Progression systeme

[Ultramex.1506]

Gotta wonder why i stayed by this mmo for 7 years without the true endgame "gear threadmill"

Oh yea, the variety of activities for different purposes not just "chase higher number"

[Obtena.7952]

6 hours ago, Denver.4621 said:

i heared a lot of people complaining about how boring the game became , ofc talking about veterans , including me , im actualy find the game lacking  objectives on your characters , exotic gear is legit same as ascendent , only different is that you get agony resistance , and i heared that anet wanna make it account wide , which is even worst , cause if you get once ascendent gear your legit almost finished in terme of gearing ,  so why not make every expansion a new gear type so people get a fresh experience and find a new reason to grind , which make it more enjoyable , anet right now giving so much priority to new players , which is good but leaving the rest behind ?

Complains about how the game is boring ... asks for more grind. Makes sense. 😐

Edited January 14, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Chichimec.9364]

7 hours ago, Denver.4621 said:

i heared a lot of people complaining about how boring the game became , ofc talking about veterans , including me , im actualy find the game lacking  objectives on your character...

All I can speak to is my own experience but after 5 years of playing GW2 for 6+ hours a day, I don't find the game boring at all. Part of what keeps me engaged is having meaningful goals to work toward. In my case that means focusing on legendary gear and achievement points. Another part of what keeps me engaged here is playing with guildies I like. Even though I've already gotten all the leggy gear available in WvW, I still spend two hours a day running in WvW simply because I like the squad I run with there. We have a lot of fun playing together. While I'm sorry that the OP finds the game boring, his suggested solution - adding more gear grinding - sounds horrifically boring to me.

(Oh, in case anyone is wondering, I'm retired, which is how I can put so much time into this game on a daily basis.)

[Freya.9075]

What’s boring or fun is subjective. Gw2 is for the players who doesn’t want the constant gear grinding when new expansions are released like other mmos. It focuses on things that the players who doesn’t want the gear treadmill will enjoy.
 

You may not like what the game offers and find it boring, but the game is still popular after 10 years for a reason. There is no way for anet to make every player satisfied 

[Astralporing.1957]

15 hours ago, Denver.4621 said:

i heared a lot of people complaining about how boring the game became , ofc talking about veterans , including me , im actualy find the game lacking  objectives on your characters , exotic gear is legit same as ascendent , only different is that you get agony resistance , and i heared that anet wanna make it account wide , which is even worst , cause if you get once ascendent gear your legit almost finished in terme of gearing ,  so why not make every expansion a new gear type so people get a fresh experience and find a new reason to grind , which make it more enjoyable , anet right now giving so much priority to new players , which is good but leaving the rest behind ?

It's exactly having to regrind the BiS gear that i have already obtained over and over and over again that makes the game boring to me. It's exactly making your existing gear obsolete every now and them that, to me is an attempt to constantly keep leaving the players (and especially veterans)  behind, forcing them to always be on the run to catch up.

No, thanks, i'd rather not see hamster wheels in this game. I'm not a hamster, and i don't intend to become one.

[Taclism.2406]

While I'm not in favor of a gear treadmill, I find the response  "gw2 respects your time" amusing. A game that respect my time let me grind as much as I want to whenever I'm free and willing to do so, instead of doing everything it can do incentivize daily connections like a mobile game.
I guess Anet found a good inbetween for 5-to-9ers that'll play one or a few hours a day without feeling like they're falling behind / economy getting too expensive for them ; but for the more hardcore crowd, that much progression gating turns most of the entire game into a "daily quest list" that's easier to burn-out on, whereas if I could just do any of those objectives for as long as I wanted to, until the repetitiveness of said grind pushes me to do something else in a more natural way.

Eg : I don't suppose anyone had a great time doing all of draconis hearts 16 times, over 16 days, for a mere step towards Aurora. Not that it'd feel much cooler if we could grind them all in 1 day, but I'd probably prefer to have the freedom to do it and be done with it, than visiting repeatedly a zone I dislike.
In a similar fashion, I'd love to take a few days to grind rollerbeetle tracks parts and make a race in my guild hall, but I'm not going to take 20mins every day to do so.

Yes it's all optionnal, but so is getting the best "gear tier" in a gear treadmill. The question isnt the end goal, but how much fun and freedom we have getting to said goals.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Taclism.2406

[Freya.9075]

1 hour ago, Taclism.2406 said:

While I'm not in favor of a gear treadmill, I find the response  "gw2 respects your time" amusing. A game that respect my time let me grind as much as I want to whenever I'm free and willing to do so, instead of doing everything it can do incentivize daily connections like a mobile game.
I guess Anet found a good inbetween for 5-to-9ers that'll play one or a few hours a day without feeling like they're falling behind / economy getting too expensive for them ; but for the more hardcore crowd, that much progression gating turns most of the entire game into a "daily quest list" that's easier to burn-out on, whereas if I could just do any of those objectives for as long as I wanted to, until the repetitiveness of said grind pushes me to do something else in a more natural way.

Eg : I don't suppose anyone had a great time doing all of draconis hearts 16 times, over 16 days, for a mere step towards Aurora. Not that it'd feel much cooler if we could grind them all in 1 day, but I'd probably prefer to have the freedom to do it and be done with it, than visiting repeatedly a zone I dislike.
In a similar fashion, I'd love to take a few days to grind rollerbeetle tracks parts and make a race in my guild hall, but I'm not going to take 20mins every day to do so.

Yes it's all optionnal, but so is getting the best "gear tier" in a gear treadmill. The question isnt the end goal, but how much fun and freedom we have getting to said goals.

I enjoyed the Aurora collection. Even the druid stones. Was I burnt out when I finally completed it? Sure. But looking back, I really did enjoy all parts of getting both Aurora and Vision. I would do it again if I could.

It is freedom since it's not mandatory for enjoying the game, and you can still do whatever you want. Meaning it does respect your time since everything you do is your own choice. Basically, you're not put on the sideline for not having "proper gear" since you chose not to grind for things you need. If you don't enjoy a collection and find it grindy, it is not worth it. And not needed.

gw2 offers a lot with their collections and achievements. Even for hardcore players. You choose what you want to do in the game and have all the time you need to do so. Rushing it as fast as you can, getting burnt out in the process, or doing the collection over years. That is respecting  your time and that's what people mean when they say this. It will not be wasted if you choose to use a year to get Aurora compared to games where they make gear worthless every expansion. 

[Taclism.2406]

Yeah I mostly agree with you, except you didnt address at all the core point of my argument : Limiting everything to a daily limit rather than letting me handle all sorts of grind at the pace I want (and how fast I want to do it, not how slow).
Lets say I can play only once a week for 12h straigh, instead of the usual "one or two hour a day". Aurora now takes 16 weeks instead of 16 days, even if doing these quests 16 times takes about 8hours. But lets toss aside the Aurora argument since its loot related, whereas I want to underline my point is about all sorts of goal, not classic power progression.
I can somewhat understand daily limits on metas, to avoid people farming so much it messes the game economy and risk the average player feels even more poor than they already do.
But what purposes serves the limit on daily medals for rollerbeetle tracks? That's a rhetorical question, designing around daily connection is well known to help with player retention and investment.

I can't consider a game that expects me to play "over X days" instead of "for XX hours" to reach a goal something that respects my time. But hey that doesn't make it a bad game.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Taclism.2406

[Freya.9075]

26 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Yeah I mostly agree with you, except you didnt address at all the core point of my argument : Limiting everything to a daily limit rather than letting me handle all sorts of grind at the pace I want (and how fast I want to do it, not how slow).
Lets say I can play only once a week for 12h straigh, instead of the usual "one or two hour a day". Aurora now takes 16 weeks instead of 16 days. But lets toss aside the Aurora argument since its loot related, whereas I want to underline my point is about all sorts of goal, not classic power progression.
I can somewhat understand daily limits on metas, to avoid people farming so much it messes the game economy and risk the average player feels even more poor than they already do.
But what purposes serves the limit on daily medals for rollerbeetle tracks? That's a rhetorical question, designing around daily connection is well known to help with player retention and investment.

I can't consider a game that expects me to play daily something that respects my time. But hey that doesn't make it a bad game.

My solution to the time gating was working on other parts of the collection while I waited since it’s a huge collection. Those parts needs to be done anyway so I thought why not do those while waiting. I understand time gating can be frustrating though, specially if you can’t log in daily to do those parts. Not sure why they chose to do it that way, but I’m sure they got their reasons. 

[Ashen.2907]

Ascended is numerically superior to Exotic. Legendary is an improvement (although not numerically) over ascended. 

If you like grinding for better gear you might want to start working towards WvW legendary armor. It has the potential to take you years to complete all three weights.

[Taclism.2406]

15 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

My solution to the time gating was working on other parts of the collection while I waited since it’s a huge collection. Those parts needs to be done anyway so I thought why not do those while waiting. I understand time gating can be frustrating though, specially if you can’t log in daily to do those parts. Not sure why they chose to do it that way, but I’m sure they got their reasons. 

Considering my first 3 months playing were when I was out of work, I can relate to your "solution", and it's also what ended up leading me to see rewarding events/metas for most end game goals as daily quests (eg, anomaly, dragonstorm, ...) at that point of my life.

My problem with their caps is how systematicly they apply it.
Some have good reasons to be implemented so the playerbase can't deflate or inflate the game's economy too much.
Some are questionnable and could be argued either way (like idk, weekly cap on green/blue strike shards)
and some are "useless limits" to the player, but there to further implement the habit of daily login. A player that made a habit of logging in daily is that much more likely to use the cash shop on the long run than a player that can rush his goals and leaves until [new content he's interested in].
It makes sense for the company, but I still have an issue with it since there is an expectation you'd play daily (or as close to it as you can), and possibly plan around it - even if thats for shorter sessions than others MMO - than playing on your own schedule. You could, but it's at a massive efficiency cost, to do literally anything. 

 

[Parasite.5389]

23 hours ago, Denver.4621 said:

 exotic gear is legit same as ascendent , only different is that you get agony resistance , and i heared that anet wanna make it account wide

so clearly this is a troll post by OP, but Ascended is about 7% stronger than exotic, and is already account bound not character bound; if you mean they're planning on making it useable through a system like the legendary armory, i'd ask what your sources are, because they're clearly wrong

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

Don't think we need stronger gear, new Stats, Sigils and Runes are enough "content" to shake things up quite a bit for a lot of people, but even that is going to run dry at some point, hell, we didn't even get new Runes and Sigils this expansion.

So in a way, yeah, Anet need to do something to improve progression, either with better Masteries, maybe reworking Runes and Sigils, how Stats works, or all of those, but introducing "infinite gear grind" would kill this game for a lot of people, and i mean A LOT OF PEOPLE, so that's not an option.

[Random dude.5089]

5 hours ago, Parasite.5389 said:

so clearly this is a troll post by OP, but Ascended is about 7% stronger than exotic, and is already account bound not character bound; if you mean they're planning on making it useable through a system like the legendary armory, i'd ask what your sources are, because they're clearly wrong

i said the agony resistance , not the items , also a 7% dmg increase aint doing much brother i got in almost all instances expect fractals tier 3/4 by using exotic gear , a 7% aint gonna change much expect for fractals , they could at least make legendarys have better stats , i got best slots ascendent on my chars with all the stats needed , wonder why i would go grind legendarys , exept for back items and rings and stuff , feels like a cosmetic mmo for me , all i do now is unlock skins so i suppose its a problem for end game players , thats why i just wanna see how the community feels about this , because everyone i play with have this issue.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Denver.4621 said:

i said the agony resistance , not the items , also a 7% dmg increase aint doing much brother i got in almost all instances expect fractals tier 3/4 by using exotic gear , a 7% aint gonna change much expect for fractals , they could at least make legendarys have better stats , i got best slots ascendent on my chars with all the stats needed , wonder why i would go grind legendarys , exept for back items and rings and stuff , feels like a cosmetic mmo for me , all i do now is unlock skins so i suppose its a problem for end game players , thats why i just wanna see how the community feels about this , because everyone i play with have this issue.

 

You are not going to get happy in this game if you are hoping for continous gear grind (there is tons of optional grind, but stats is not one of them). Not sure how veteran you are, seems to me like you've been with the game for maybe a year tops by now (but that depends on peronsal play time) given what gear you have.

There is a majority of players who enjoy the lower and optional gear grind (for legendary) in this game ever since launch. 

We've had these threads every few months for 10 years now by a minority of players who join the game, enjoy the combat or other aspects but can't let go of the gear carrot they are used to from other games.

Better pull that bandaid off now because this won't change. Neither higher tier gear, nor will legendary items get increased stats (though legendary items have received significant quality of life bonuses over the years).

Edited January 15, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Palador.2170]

I agree that gear grind is NOT something this game needs. However...

Maybe the game could use some kind of moving target to chase, if people want to do that. A way to compare and compete against other players that isn't PvP, but PvE based.

Suggestion: A new kind of dungeon/fractals. A team enters, and they have to keep going as long and as far as they can. Each time they clear a 'level', they're forced to pick from one of several small, stacking debuffs that gets applied to the team before they can enter the next level. Then, have a board where the stats of the best teams/players are listed. What team made it the furthest? How about the best of each class/elite spec? What's the record for most of a specific debuff taken on by a team that still managed to clear the next level? Who made it the furthest solo?

Now they have something to chase, and a damned good reason to get the very best gear they can. And if balance changes hit, well... Staying on top is never easy.

[T G.7496]

The rewards.

The rewards.

The rewards.

People go on and on and on about them, or the lack of them.

Has it occurred to anyone that the mediocrity of rewards that is common throughout this game might be a design decision? Perhaps one meant to encourage you to actually play those parts of the game you find fun and engaging, regardless of any other rewards for your time beyond that.

This game is more than a decade old now, and most of it has become boring for veterans. This is perfectly understandable. I myself only play a narrow sliver of the game now, WvW, and I do so because I still find it fun and engaging to play from time to time. The fact that every now and again I get to sell a stack of Memories of Battle for 50g always comes as a surprise.

Who plays this game for 'rewards'?

Edited January 15, 2023 by T G.7496

[Silent.6137]

6 hours ago, Denver.4621 said:

 They could at least make legendarys have better stats.

Do you know why players get Legendaries? It's not about getting items with better stats but everything to do with QoL.

• Just one set of Trinkets , Sigils and Runes are needed for all your characters. Armor sets can be used by all characters of the same weight class and all weapons can be used by all of your characters if usable by their professions.
• All equipment templates will use the same item but the stats attributes can be anything from template to template.
• The stats attributes can be easily changed at anytime.
• All upgrade items such as runes, sigil and infusions can be swapped out easily without losing any of them so  another of your character can use them if needed.
• Legendary Runes and Sigils are also easily customizable and only a single set is needed for all your characters and templates as well.
• There is no transmutation costs for changing the skins of armors or weapons.

It is all about convenience which is worth the time and effort to acquire although Ascended items have the same stats and are lots cheaper.

 

 

[Hotride.2187]

No thanks. If this game becomes the usual treadmill, I'll stop playing it.

[Zephire.8049]

The moment you make legendaries have better stats than anything else is the moment you make legendaries a requirement for group content and make it even harder for people in a mix of exotics and ascended gear to get into it.

Anet also did that "It's just 7%" stat increase when they added ascended gear, which the playerbase absolutely despised. To the point Anet said they won't ever do something like that again. That was a decade ago and a different team of devs so their stance could change but it's unlikely.

Legendaries are convenience and QoL items where their value is in that and the status they convey because they show that someone did not need to spend the time or resources on it but did so anyway.

If you want a gear treadmill, that's pretty much every other MMO out there. If you want GW2 to bring in a gear treadmill, you don't know the history of it or the type of player GW2 appeals to the most.

GW2 is a sandbox-ish MMO where you're free to do content you like, play multiple characters, and your IRL time and commitments are respected—and if you want to put GW2 down, you can do that too without punishment if you decide to come back. The content releases absolutely need to be adjusted but the solution to a lack of (new) content isn't to add a gear treadmill or punish players for having alts.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

There could be trendmill-increasing stats , that those stats are spread among team8s  (+ bosses>>hit harder) when in teamfight (cap 2x people max- enable in cm modes).

While solo are splitted between you and the mob you are hitting , so the world becomes more "dangerous" .

And in return unlock an "aura" or the gear "mutates" when you reach 100plus stats(max grind) , or wait till the next 3months patch that you get more easily increased stats to rwach the 100stat goal (less grind) , or farming otherwise the currency in the OW Metas as normally for the skin without caring about the  stats (least resistance )

(you see , killing the hardest boss doent make you a Enders Game (movie) strategoi , what we seek bringing new ideas/minds in the community)

 

And Legendary OW set , now that people have tried other content after 10 years 😛

Edited January 15, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[soul.9651]

On 1/14/2023 at 1:44 AM, Khisanth.2948 said:

Heh so like how fractals used to be

Were they? Why have they changed it? 

[Cyninja.2954]

41 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Were they? Why have they changed it? 

The original iteration of fractals was that they would scale up numerically stat wise for enemies. This resulted in ludicrous hitpoint and damage numbers from enemies (think WoW mythic+ but you get no chance to improve your gear and there was basically almost no cap to it). The original max level was 100 too, but rewards stopped scaling past 3x and there was no intent to allow players to actually get further up than that, though using bugs and crafty game-play obviously players got past these limitations.

There used to be videos of guardian+elementalist groups doing 80+ rank fractals (every enemy attack was a 1 shot even them just looking at you basically, enemies lived for insane amounts of time, Cliffside alone too close to an hour to clear) with aegis and blind spam on regular enemies.

This was revamped into a more organized system similar to what we have now with HoT and after where enemies scaled but more importantly gained new attacks instead of just numeric stat increases (and toughness scaling post 50 on enemies was removed entirely as to not favor condition builds over power to much). Originally going only to rank 50 but later reworked into the 4 tiers and up to 100 ranks worth of fractal levels as we know it now.

Come to think of it, this might be something the developers could pick up again, sort of like an endless dungeon for groups/guilds and those players who enjoy this sort of scaling. Doubt they have the capacity to do so atm.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[soul.9651]

40 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Come to think of it, this might be something the developers could pick up again, sort of like an endless dungeon for groups/guilds and those players who enjoy this sort of scaling. Doubt they have the capacity to do so atm.

Maybe not at the moment but it does sound like a way how they could make this into a progresion system for people to test their skills. Like to make tier 5 which would be like that. Maybe it could be an expansion feature aswell.

[Balsa.3951]

On 1/14/2023 at 5:05 AM, Denver.4621 said:

i heared a lot of people complaining about how boring the game became , ofc talking about veterans , including me , im actualy find the game lacking  objectives on your characters , exotic gear is legit same as ascendent , only different is that you get agony resistance , and i heared that anet wanna make it account wide , which is even worst , cause if you get once ascendent gear your legit almost finished in terme of gearing ,  so why not make every expansion a new gear type so people get a fresh experience and find a new reason to grind , which make it more enjoyable , anet right now giving so much priority to new players , which is good but leaving the rest behind ?

wow agony account wide? that suggestion I gave like 2 years ago NICE

Edit

I play game from the start and even after all those years Im not maxed out on legendary I have all except a Harpoon and a second Pistol.

as well Underwater weapon sigils.

Thats 10 Years + im in the top 3% of player according to GWefficency.

Even my main is not max on Agony for all her sets ( miss 3 Condi infus)

there is a lot progression in game but being able to use all ur alts in the game without a huge wall should be acceptable.

Agony was a Mistake from the start

confused faces incomming lol 

TLTR

Agony was a Mistake saying that as Veteran in the top 3% 

Im against gate keeping ppl from content 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Balsa.3951