Players Know It's Not Right Because They Mention It But Won't Take It To The Forums, So I Will

[pcgamefreak.5208]

So there I was in WvW on my Willbender because "Necro" is officially dead; that class can not compete with all the 'Boon Party' classes.  Just playing around on my Willbender proves that because I was able to get into the middle of a large Zerg and fight out and escape multiple times.  That's not possible on any Necro Meta Build and what backs up that claim is the fact, you don't see too many players running a Neco anymore in WvW.  Just pay attention to the classes people are on...  It's all the classes that generate crazy Boons, Invulnerability, Teleports, Shadow-Steps, Ranged and disappearing.  The Necro class is now the World of Warcraft Warrior of GW2 and folks....  Just be honest for once in your lives.  You don't see 10+ Boons on a Necro that were generated by a Necro and that alone puts that class, which is already slow and easy to 'CC', at a total disadvantage against all 'Boon Party' Classes.

 

Anyway, that's not what I wanted to mention here (mainly)....

 

Players were complaining about how WvW was.  Die, 'res', Die, 'res', Die, 'res', over and over again and those are not my words.  It's like that for a reason and it's not hard to see why.

Even with the game having bad concepts throughout, WvW could be pretty amazing if just THREE changes were made.

 

One....

 

Boons shared effect needs to be greatly reduced.  I'm not talking about self Boons, I'm referring to when Boons get onto teammates.  That shared effect needs to be tiny.  Why?  Because when you have 30+ players all giving shared Boons, that tiny share will turn into a decent size share that will empower a 'Zerg' without making it overpowered but as it stands, Zergs are overpowered because you have so many FULL shared effect Boons going off at once.

 

Two....

 

Reduce ranged damage to smaller damage, much like "Condi" 'DOT."  I know ranged players are going to blow a fuse over this one but you're blowing that fuse for nothing.  There is no reason why Rangers, 'Eng', Mesmers, etc need to do so much damage in the far distance, when these classes are capable of 'throwing down' up close and personal.  I know this for a fact!  My Ranger in PvE shocked me when I finally stop using range so much and got close and personal.  They are one of the more powerful up close DPS classes in the game.  The same thing can be said for the 'Eng' so why give these classes an easy win in the distance?  This is one of the reasons Zergs are also so overpowered because all their ranged players are doing so much damage as you try to approach a Zerg or as the Zerg comes to you, the 'lawnmower' effect happens, which is when one Zerg gets cut down like a lawnmower going over grass and this happens over and over and over and it's just a bore.  There is no real PvP to be had with that kind of design.  This is why ranged DPS needs to be dropped down in WvW only, making those players engage another player up close.  When you add in the fact players seem to have super speed all the time...   If they can high DPS in the distance all day with super speed, you can forget it.  You'll be dead after your first three steps towards them.  That is BAD design for PvP.  Ranged damage should be doing like, 100, 250, 97 and sometimes 1k+, which is pretty much how "Condi" damage is reduced.  It's easy to run in the distance all day but truly takes strategy to engage; I won't say skills because it's a push/click action MMO that's based on stats on gear.  There was only one MMO made that was truly based on skills and gear did NOT have stats at all.

 

Three....

 

"CC"......

When you have a 30, 40+ man Zerg and each player has two or three "CC" abilities....  That's WAY too much "CC!"  I really only see two options....  'A', make "CC" only work against NPCs (tower/keep guards, etc) and not against other Human players.  'B', allow everybody to only equip one "CC" ability or if it's a "CC" by trait, then equip none.  Why do this?  Because Zergs will burn through "CC" faster, which will allow players who didn't get "CC'ed" to charge forward and stand tall, granted change One and Two are implemented as well.

These three changes would just allow players to go at it longer without dying in a heart beat and resurrecting all the time, just to run back and get cut down again in the blink of an eye.  For those of you who ran Alterac Valley in World of Warcraft....be honest...  That was FUUUNNNN wasn't it, Baby! 😄

What's the difference?  Well, you didn't have a 'Boon Party' going on.  You didn't have a planet load of "CC" going on.  You didn't have Zergs going on.  You went down swinging in "WOW", none of this several players "CC'ing" you so hard you can't move or get up from the ground stuff.  You didn't really get 'ganked' in "WOW" battlegrounds, not to the extend of what you see in GW2.

 

If the "Devs" would just make the three changes and run it for a week in a beta, I bet my "zonkey" players would NOT want to go back!  You'll be having too much what I like to call, Royal Rumble "throw down" fun!

 

Those suggested changes are fair, because no class isn't going to lose anything because if you think Ranged classes can't deal close up DPS, think again.  They just don't because they don't want to risk it and why should they when they can blow you up in the distance.

Personally, in all my years of developing...  I could have never come up with the current concepts that exist in GW2 (my creativity won‘t let me, it‘s too high), especially in WvW because they (concepts) just have too many issues but hey...not going to press that, but something really needs to be done about the current WvW.  It’s absolutely too chaotic and more about quick deaths than PvP and by pvp, I mean player vs player and not the other PvP mode.

 

Players are complaining, they just don't go to the forums with it and the "Devs" are probably never going to consider the feedback anyway.  If I'm being honest, all the WvW I did today, I was not having fun at all.  I was just  there to get the claim tickets and memories of battles.  You can’t have much fun with the current structure and if players think they were having fun...let those three suggestions happen and you’ll probably be so addicted to WvW, you’ll need MMO rehab to get off it.

Done with that...

Seriously though...  The Necro class needs Boons too man...it's only right and I'm talking about Reaper and Core mostly but all build types need more Boons to complete and the traits need to be re-slotted in order to be more effective and all marks need to be unblockable because they can easily be dodged, Necros shouldn't have to trait for that.  More stun break needs to be added to tray abilities too.  My Willbender can trigger protection with other Boons and the same abilities also allow for stun breaks.  That's insane when it comes to class treatment.  It's like the Necro was purposely reduced to failure and given how many players keep pushing for more "Nerfing" although I don't know what's left to "Nerf" on a class that doesn't generate any real meaningful Boons, yeah....  Necromancer is truly the "WOW" Warrior and other classes know it, which is why the first thing they do is pull the Necro to them because they know the class has no "Boon Party" and they know the class can't escape from battle.  Easy win every time.  I would say the Reaper can put up the best fight up close but the lack in Boons will ultimately lead to defeat.  You can’t “Condi” with Necro even though Curses and Scepter are for that because conditions are reduced to nothing in WvW so you’ll do no real damage.  Scourge, the Shroud shielding don’t help because DPS is too fast and furious and the cool-down on Desert Shroud is way too long, plus again, any conditions spread from it won’t do much in WvW.  It’s not hard to see why it’s a dead class if you’re being honest and if you’re not being honest, you probably just want to see it even “deader.”
.

Final contemplation....

 

The “Devs” really need to do something about players who run around with Invulnerability lasting more than 10 seconds.  That’s God Mode.  They are so bold with it, they like to dance around in front of you for 10 seconds while you do zero everything to them and then run off with super speed and still have Invulnerability up.  Makes no sense what so ever in what’s supposed to be PvP, not player vs ghost player.  A three man team of Invulnerability players can wipe out a 10 man Zerg that don’t have it.  That's how ridiculous it is.

 

Forgive "typos", (I really gotta stop typing with the lights off, bad for the eyes)

 

Peace

 

[Ferus.3165]

your first point is actually valid imo. The game would improve alot if people would have to take care of their own boons for the most part and if boons get shared it should only last for a very short amount of time so you could still use it for coordinated bursts. This would certainly stop boonballs from having perma raid boons across the whole party.

 

point two and point three is a no for me

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

I honestly didn't read past "necro is officially dead," if you want people to read your novel probably don't start by catastrophising the state of class balance in the first sentence 

[Mikhael.2391]

9 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Maybe you're just bad at necro and don't understand the playstyle.

He s rigth about a lot, necro can be locked in cc by2 classes easily like thief and ranger or any other and bursted down while watching the skill bar in a constant cooldown of 3s. this is bad developtment and ignored for years. It can even be cc locked by any other class that has invulns while ccing etc. very poor balance, no matte rhow hard , suposedely, necro can hit if hitting is prevented to begin with. 

[Chaba.5410]

2 minutes ago, Mikhael.2391 said:

He s rigth about a lot, necro can be locked in cc by2 classes easily like thief and ranger or any other and bursted down while watching the skill bar in a constant cooldown of 3s. this is bad developtment and ignored for years. It can even be cc locked by any other class that has invulns while ccing etc. very poor balance, no matte rhow hard , suposedely, necro can hit if hitting is prevented to begin with. 

He proclaims necro dead based on a meta build for zergs and we supposed to believe that nonsense? I see plenty of necros in WvW. What is this guy talking about?

Every class is designed with strengths and weaknesses. Every class has also been given counters to different types of attacks. It's a type of asymmetrical design. This isn't chess.

Every class has a different playstyle that players must discover. Necros can actually be a strong counter to thieves. I used to love tearing them up with dagger on a power core necro when they'd come in close.

[Mikhael.2391]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

He proclaims necro dead based on a meta build for zergs and we supposed to believe that nonsense? I see plenty of necros in WvW. What is this guy talking about?

Every class is designed with strengths and weaknesses. Every class has also been given counters to different types of attacks. It's a type of asymmetrical design. This isn't chess.

Every class has a different playstyle that players must discover. Necros can actually be a strong counter to thieves. I used to love tearing them up with dagger on a power core necro when they'd come in close.

terrible thiefs im sure, at close range out of shroud with dagger the thief will eat u easyy. and all thief mains know this

[Chaba.5410]

10 minutes ago, Mikhael.2391 said:

terrible thiefs im sure, at close range out of shroud with dagger the thief will eat u easyy. and all thief mains know this

Otherwise known as "knowing your class weaknesses and strengths".

[willow.8209]

On 2/16/2023 at 9:44 PM, Horace.3184 said:

There is no reason why Rangers, 'Eng', Mesmers, etc need to do so much damage in the far distance, when these classes are capable of 'throwing down' up close and personal.  I know this for a fact!

 

Yes, it's needed for there to be ranged classes that have ranged strength. Some people find it fun to play ranged, so ranged should work as ranged.

Ranged can also be a disability accommodation as something like sensory gating issues can make it difficult to function in the midst of a busy group.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

On 2/17/2023 at 4:44 PM, Horace.3184 said:

Two....

 

Reduce ranged damage to smaller damage, much like "Condi" 'DOT."  I know ranged players are going to blow a fuse over this one but you're blowing that fuse for nothing.  There is no reason why Rangers, 'Eng', Mesmers, etc need to do so much damage in the far distance, when these classes are capable of 'throwing down' up close and personal.  I know this for a fact! 

So you were able to jump into a large zerg with willbender and then escape.
Then you say mesmer has a so much damage.
I'm confused, there is hardly a dps build for zergs. Only zerg build is support.

[Esufer.8762]

idk reaper seems pretty good to me man

[Debesyla.7102]

skill issue

(Seriously, I main necro in wvw, haven't had any problems either roaming or in zerg too.)

Edited March 15, 2023 by Debesyla.7102

[Riba.3271]

Necro was popular across all skill levels. Good players are flexible so they let noobs with no reaction time play necro and filled other roles. So now we have necros that can't manage their endurance, utilize energy sigils or measure distance and yolobolo around without understanding their whole job is to counter enemy pushes and yolo players, not duel willbenders.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Boh.4568]

The willbender example is not a testament to necro being unusable, but rather a reminder that no class should be able to dive 1v30 in a zerg and have up to 10 seconds of various invulns and anti-CC while they simply walk back to their zerg, untouchable.

Any 1v30 should end in a brutal and bloody mess for the 1, instead you can see pug squads having eles/willis waltzing into enemies and teleporting back just to bait cooldowns, unable to kill anyone and unable to be killed, while rangers pewpew from behind. And if you down someone by chance, it's always an ele who mists back to the group for the ress.

[MysteryDude.1572]

i don't get what your point is

you want boons lowered cause u can divebomb and get kills? or cause you can divebomb and get no kills cause protection on zerg ..

yes , classes CAN get close and personal , so ? i see any ranger trying to jump in, i insta focus him , same with willybenders, thats how it goes.

and necro can get self boons , prot , swift , fury , you can slap some runes on it for boon generation too...

[Tythan.2936]

On 2/17/2023 at 6:44 AM, Horace.3184 said:

So there I was in WvW on my Willbender because "Necro" is officially dead; that class can not compete with all the 'Boon Party' classes.  Just playing around on my Willbender proves that because I was able to get into the middle of a large Zerg and fight out and escape multiple times.  That's not possible on any Necro Meta Build and what backs up that claim is the fact, you don't see too many players running a Neco anymore in WvW.  Just pay attention to the classes people are on...  It's all the classes that generate crazy Boons, Invulnerability, Teleports, Shadow-Steps, Ranged and disappearing.  The Necro class is now the World of Warcraft Warrior of GW2 and folks....  Just be honest for once in your lives.  You don't see 10+ Boons on a Necro that were generated by a Necro and that alone puts that class, which is already slow and easy to 'CC', at a total disadvantage against all 'Boon Party' Classes.

 

Anyway, that's not what I wanted to mention here (mainly)....

 

Players were complaining about how WvW was.  Die, 'res', Die, 'res', Die, 'res', over and over again and those are not my words.  It's like that for a reason and it's not hard to see why.

Even with the game having bad concepts throughout, WvW could be pretty amazing if just THREE changes were made.

 

One....

 

Boons shared effect needs to be greatly reduced.  I'm not talking about self Boons, I'm referring to when Boons get onto teammates.  That shared effect needs to be tiny.  Why?  Because when you have 30+ players all giving shared Boons, that tiny share will turn into a decent size share that will empower a 'Zerg' without making it overpowered but as it stands, Zergs are overpowered because you have so many FULL shared effect Boons going off at once.

 

Two....

 

Reduce ranged damage to smaller damage, much like "Condi" 'DOT."  I know ranged players are going to blow a fuse over this one but you're blowing that fuse for nothing.  There is no reason why Rangers, 'Eng', Mesmers, etc need to do so much damage in the far distance, when these classes are capable of 'throwing down' up close and personal.  I know this for a fact!  My Ranger in PvE shocked me when I finally stop using range so much and got close and personal.  They are one of the more powerful up close DPS classes in the game.  The same thing can be said for the 'Eng' so why give these classes an easy win in the distance?  This is one of the reasons Zergs are also so overpowered because all their ranged players are doing so much damage as you try to approach a Zerg or as the Zerg comes to you, the 'lawnmower' effect happens, which is when one Zerg gets cut down like a lawnmower going over grass and this happens over and over and over and it's just a bore.  There is no real PvP to be had with that kind of design.  This is why ranged DPS needs to be dropped down in WvW only, making those players engage another player up close.  When you add in the fact players seem to have super speed all the time...   If they can high DPS in the distance all day with super speed, you can forget it.  You'll be dead after your first three steps towards them.  That is BAD design for PvP.  Ranged damage should be doing like, 100, 250, 97 and sometimes 1k+, which is pretty much how "Condi" damage is reduced.  It's easy to run in the distance all day but truly takes strategy to engage; I won't say skills because it's a push/click action MMO that's based on stats on gear.  There was only one MMO made that was truly based on skills and gear did NOT have stats at all.

 

Three....

 

"CC"......

When you have a 30, 40+ man Zerg and each player has two or three "CC" abilities....  That's WAY too much "CC!"  I really only see two options....  'A', make "CC" only work against NPCs (tower/keep guards, etc) and not against other Human players.  'B', allow everybody to only equip one "CC" ability or if it's a "CC" by trait, then equip none.  Why do this?  Because Zergs will burn through "CC" faster, which will allow players who didn't get "CC'ed" to charge forward and stand tall, granted change One and Two are implemented as well.

These three changes would just allow players to go at it longer without dying in a heart beat and resurrecting all the time, just to run back and get cut down again in the blink of an eye.  For those of you who ran Alterac Valley in World of Warcraft....be honest...  That was FUUUNNNN wasn't it, Baby! 😄

What's the difference?  Well, you didn't have a 'Boon Party' going on.  You didn't have a planet load of "CC" going on.  You didn't have Zergs going on.  You went down swinging in "WOW", none of this several players "CC'ing" you so hard you can't move or get up from the ground stuff.  You didn't really get 'ganked' in "WOW" battlegrounds, not to the extend of what you see in GW2.

 

If the "Devs" would just make the three changes and run it for a week in a beta, I bet my "zonkey" players would NOT want to go back!  You'll be having too much what I like to call, Royal Rumble "throw down" fun!

 

Those suggested changes are fair, because no class isn't going to lose anything because if you think Ranged classes can't deal close up DPS, think again.  They just don't because they don't want to risk it and why should they when they can blow you up in the distance.

Personally, in all my years of developing...  I could have never come up with the current concepts that exist in GW2 (my creativity won‘t let me, it‘s too high), especially in WvW because they (concepts) just have too many issues but hey...not going to press that, but something really needs to be done about the current WvW.  It’s absolutely too chaotic and more about quick deaths than PvP and by pvp, I mean player vs player and not the other PvP mode.

 

Players are complaining, they just don't go to the forums with it and the "Devs" are probably never going to consider the feedback anyway.  If I'm being honest, all the WvW I did today, I was not having fun at all.  I was just  there to get the claim tickets and memories of battles.  You can’t have much fun with the current structure and if players think they were having fun...let those three suggestions happen and you’ll probably be so addicted to WvW, you’ll need MMO rehab to get off it.

Done with that...

Seriously though...  The Necro class needs Boons too man...it's only right and I'm talking about Reaper and Core mostly but all build types need more Boons to complete and the traits need to be re-slotted in order to be more effective and all marks need to be unblockable because they can easily be dodged, Necros shouldn't have to trait for that.  More stun break needs to be added to tray abilities too.  My Willbender can trigger protection with other Boons and the same abilities also allow for stun breaks.  That's insane when it comes to class treatment.  It's like the Necro was purposely reduced to failure and given how many players keep pushing for more "Nerfing" although I don't know what's left to "Nerf" on a class that doesn't generate any real meaningful Boons, yeah....  Necromancer is truly the "WOW" Warrior and other classes know it, which is why the first thing they do is pull the Necro to them because they know the class has no "Boon Party" and they know the class can't escape from battle.  Easy win every time.  I would say the Reaper can put up the best fight up close but the lack in Boons will ultimately lead to defeat.  You can’t “Condi” with Necro even though Curses and Scepter are for that because conditions are reduced to nothing in WvW so you’ll do no real damage.  Scourge, the Shroud shielding don’t help because DPS is too fast and furious and the cool-down on Desert Shroud is way too long, plus again, any conditions spread from it won’t do much in WvW.  It’s not hard to see why it’s a dead class if you’re being honest and if you’re not being honest, you probably just want to see it even “deader.”
.

Final contemplation....

 

The “Devs” really need to do something about players who run around with Invulnerability lasting more than 10 seconds.  That’s God Mode.  They are so bold with it, they like to dance around in front of you for 10 seconds while you do zero everything to them and then run off with super speed and still have Invulnerability up.  Makes no sense what so ever in what’s supposed to be PvP, not player vs ghost player.  A three man team of Invulnerability players can wipe out a 10 man Zerg that don’t have it.  That's how ridiculous it is.

 

Forgive "typos", (I really gotta stop typing with the lights off, bad for the eyes)

 

Peace

 

That's a lot of words to say that you can't press buttons while playing Scourge.

[captrowdy.9561]

I wouldn’t complain about some resistance on my reaper but it’s not absolutely horrible. Reaper is actually pretty balanced. Not overpowered but takes a fair amount of brain power to be be successful. 

[Mihile.7609]

I'm not gonna read all that but, I'm happy for you.

Or, I'm sorry that happened.

[ArchonWing.9480]

On 2/16/2023 at 9:44 PM, Horace.3184 said:

 Just playing around on my Willbender proves that because I was able to get into the middle of a large Zerg and fight out and escape multiple times.

Yea but did you actually do anything? How many allies did you support, and how many kills did you secure? How many downs did you make? How many boons did you give and strip?

Your criteria for effectiveness is a bit flawed here I think. You're only trying to survive, and that's why you're not doing well on necro.

Edited March 15, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Xenturion.9546]

In a zerg setting, a Reaper's job is to strip and damage. Your squad is responsible for boons and heals. Yes, surviving is obviously top priority, but if you play with the right people, they'll allow you to do your job efficiently because they do theirs. Staying on tag, dodging red rings and downing enemy players before they down you should keep you alive for as long as possible.

That's the trade-off of playing Reaper in large-scale fights. It's a selfish class. While you shine in close combat, you're barely capable of providing much ranged damage or any form of squad support. That's the reason why it's fallen out of what is considered the current "meta" for larger-scale fighting. Your teammates heal you, while you do all of the damage and get all of the kills, but if your movement is off for a second, you're not too familiar with the class's abilities or its limits, you're almost insta-dead. High risk vs High reward.

That's exactly what makes Reaper fun. It's the one class you actually can't rely on much boons to save you if you're caught alone or away from the group (enemies know this too) and requires you to focus on improving your skill instead.

Would it be great if Reaper had more boon production? Yes. Which boons? More might? Yes!!! Maybe a couple of extra seconds of stab? Maybe a couple of seconds of superspeeed? Anything beyond that and Reaper instantly becomes overpowered. Imagine a Reaper with invis or invul. Although I'd love the bagfest and enjoy seeing the rage-quitting, that wouldn't be balanced. The class just simply wouldn't be as much fun.

Gone are the days of anyone just hopping on a Reaper and actually being good at it. When all other classes outperform you with regards to boons, heals and gimmicks, as the old saying goes...get good!!!

[Alsandar.7420]

Facts:

Invis gone, many engis gone

Necros boonstrip nerfed, many necros gone

Chronos boonstrip nerfed, many chronos gone

Havoc squads killed by Mag - quit OR transferred to Mag

Roamers killed by Mag - quit OR transferred to Mag

Pugmanders killed by Mag - quit

 

An entire WvW culture that existed for years was killed by Anet’s own developers in 2022 and population dwindled. Simultaneously, Anet opened Mag up to transfers and even more people quit WvW

[IndigoSundown.5419]

ONE

 

Any serious reduction in boon sharing would have to be accompanied by changes to AOE and CC.  Boons are what keep a group from wilting in the bazillion red circles put out by the other guys.

 

THREE

 

Another option exists -- a short CC immunity once someone has been CC'd.  Many other games have such a mechanic  Something similar is sorely needed in GW2, where it is very possible to have 10 stacks of stab stripped in a couple of seconds, burn through your stun breaks and then bounce around like a ping-pong ball until defeated.

[solemn.9670]

I feel about as much sympathy for Necro mains as I do Teef mains when they get repeatedly nerfed.

You were meta for the last 10 years it's ok, you can take a breather while ele is OP for the first time in like 8

[Xenesis.6389]

2 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

I feel about as much sympathy for Necro mains as I do Teef mains when they get repeatedly nerfed.

You were meta for the last 10 years it's ok, you can take a breather while ele is OP for the first time in like 8

GWEN

GREN

First time? think not.

[solemn.9670]

4 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

GWEN

GREN

First time? think not.

Okay there was that brief period of time like 4 months after PoF release where cele fire arcane weaver was insanely good, sort of like how cele fire arcane hammer catalyst is now. Then they nerfed the ever-living **** out of it. As for "tempest being op", yeah it's annoying, but have you tried stepping out of it's damage, kiting, or simply walking away from it considering that most frequent tempest players play really lame, annoying take-no-damage builds. Same with hammer catalyst right now tbh, just walk away and come back when it's out of fire attune, but nah it's op because it requires thinking lol

[Xenesis.6389]

6 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

Okay there was that brief period of time like 4 months after PoF release where cele fire arcane weaver was insanely good, sort of like how cele fire arcane hammer catalyst is now. Then they nerfed the ever-living **** out of it. As for "tempest being op", yeah it's annoying, but have you tried stepping out of it's damage, kiting, or simply walking away from it considering that most frequent tempest players play really lame, annoying take-no-damage builds. Same with hammer catalyst right now tbh, just walk away and come back when it's out of fire attune, but nah it's op because it requires thinking lol

Ahem... excuse me sir... but where in this entire thread... do you see me complaining about tempest or catalyst that you feel the need to personally give me advice on them? I'm just calling you out on the fact you think elemenalist have not had the time in the meta, and they have, for more than "4 months".

I already walk away from 1v1's from half the specs in this game, cause they're either stupidly op against my spec, they're not fun to face, or they're tiresome to fight, no skin off my back, fotm builds get the gank treatment.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Xenesis.6389