Meta Incredibly not fun - Scrapper,Tempest,Virt,SPB,Cata Annoying & OP

[Kodama.6453]

7 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I remember they that one time they wanted to change it because of WvW, since it was/is kinda OP because it was the best strat to make the zerg invisible on the move. I think when Scrapper was released the gyro was visible since it was an object and you kinda knew that a group was there but they were still invisible, they potentially got the first attack but you knew where it would come from.  

At least back then the sneak gyro just gave a vague idea where the scrapper is, because the gyro used to be a minion with wonky following mechanics. So it wasn't on top of the scrapper the whole time anyway.

With it being a well, making the sneak gyro visible would give exact information about the scrapper's position, which would be worse than the release situation.

And yeah, they plan to change gyros to be stationary instead of following the scrapper in the future. Hope that the gyro itself still stays invisible, tho. Otherwise it just is a worse shadow refuge as an elite skill....

[Vancho.8750]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

At least back then the sneak gyro just gave a vague idea where the scrapper is, because the gyro used to be a minion with wonky following mechanics. So it wasn't on top of the scrapper the whole time anyway.

With it being a well, making the sneak gyro visible would give exact information about the scrapper's position, which would be worse than the release situation.

And yeah, they plan to change gyros to be stationary instead of following the scrapper in the future. Hope that the gyro itself still stays invisible, tho. Otherwise it just is a worse shadow refuge as an elite skill....

Well they have been going nerf batting stealth from quite some time and any build using it was in the crosshair, ask thieves about it. So make threads about how this and that could work better and reasonable, since Anet would decide for you and the basic attack wonder mechanist dev is not on the balance team anymore. If you look at the warrior forum you will see that allot of the mechanical reworks are from suggestions from there, it is not quite up dare for build options, but that on number issue more than mechanical at this point with some iffy stuff in between. If you look at Engi it is probably bigger mess than warrior was, but allot of the mess is on the positive side that covers up the crappy stuff, like some weapons are crappy but it doesn't matter cause they do the dps based on some trait or some kitten.   

[Leonidrex.5649]

why is sneak gyro better version of mass invis?
always made me wonder that one

[senftube.6081]

Nade Spamming is just trolololololo. The whole balance in this game as getting stupid.

[apharma.3741]

On 3/12/2023 at 6:20 PM, Shao.7236 said:

Ah if only you could use CS more often with a low CD to mitigate those conditions prior to having them rather than have Distortion randomly shoved in because clearly there's nothing to be creative with.

You could easily turn Chronomancer into condi bomb by baiting conditions and transfering them back twice with Arcane Thievery but I must be the only one who thinks of ever having such kind of cleverly put fun am I?

Seriously it's like nobody wants out of their comfort zones and the game just dies with it.

You're the only one that thinks it is clever because you read what the skill does but have never used it. Arcane Thievery is well known to not transfer conditions or steal boons as it functions as 2 skills. They added quickness and slow to the start of the skill to make it look like it was working and give you some benefit when it missed, which is most of the time.
The difference between someone reading the class and someone playing the class is astounding.
I'm not reading a wall of text, seems you got something to prove but we all see the bias  🤷‍♂️

[Spellhunter.9675]

Meta is incredibly fun now.
I can die in a second to scrapper, respawn and spend whole match oneshoting him myself.
I can come to a teamfight and facetank the whole world because my fellow tempest will support me. Even if someone manages to kill me through shocking and magnetic auras fellow tempest will res me.
I can laugh at virtouso because all he is doing is blocking nothing. But his animations are pink and shiny. I like it.
I can put chill and confusion on cata and watch him killing himself. Usually he will rage pm me after, because he thinks he is still playing metabuild and should easy farm everyone.
I can forget about sidenodes and warriors there, because if I didn't touch them they'll be a nonfactor in a match and will be bored to death.
And my favorite - I can pick necro, build in every booncorrupt and boonremoval it has and turn everyone's life into suffer. Because every build is spitting boons left and right.

Meta is good. 10/10 fun.

 

P.S. nerf thief pls.
 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Spellhunter.9675

[Shao.7236]

7 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

You're the only one that thinks it is clever because you read what the skill does but have never used it. Arcane Thievery is well known to not transfer conditions or steal boons as it functions as 2 skills. They added quickness and slow to the start of the skill to make it look like it was working and give you some benefit when it missed, which is most of the time.
The difference between someone reading the class and someone playing the class is astounding.
I'm not reading a wall of text, seems you got something to prove but we all see the bias  🤷‍♂️

Friend did it to me and it works, in the end all I see from most mesmer players is whining and that nothing works as if they're the only ones having issues so whatever you say. Ignore the fact that you're wrong about IR.

[apharma.3741]

18 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Friend did it to me and it works, in the end all I see from most mesmer players is whining and that nothing works as if they're the only ones having issues so whatever you say. Ignore the fact that you're wrong about IR.

I'm not wrong though, IR leaves a small moment of vulnerability that someone can capitalize on, and you wanted to remove that, which was my entire point. You can disagree and write as much as you like, but the fact is you wanted to remove any vulnerability from a skill was my point.

Yes, every skill more or less works if you just stand there and use it on each other in a flat arena, but you didn't actually use it, you haven't played with it over hundreds of hours and seen it fail more often than not. But sure, you know better than people with literally thousands of hours on the class using the skill without ever touching it 🙄

[ArthurDent.9538]

7 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

I'm not wrong though, IR leaves a small moment of vulnerability that someone can capitalize on, and you wanted to remove that, which was my entire point. You can disagree and write as much as you like, but the fact is you wanted to remove any vulnerability from a skill was my point.

 

 

Adding very small vulnerability windows in the middle of defensive skills just makes things feel janky for no reason. No one is purposefully timing their disables in the fraction of a second window where IR stability falls off all the vulnerability window means is some people get lucky and just ignore the skill entirely as it fails to do the main thing it is supposed to do. From your post history you're a mesmer main, imagine adding random vulnerability frames in the middle of distortion for absolutely no reason other than to add "a small moment of vulnerability that someone can capitalize on". Sounds like a great idea to me especially considering how unlike for IR there really is no counterplay to distortion other than waiting it out. No, that would be dumb idea and I don't believe for a second you would think differently. I disagree with Shao on a lot of the stuff he posts but I'm 100% with him on the IR stability gap it, it is just janky, it adds nothing to the game other than random moments of frustration, and I highly doubt you play any form of jalis rev regularly in pvp if you believe your own post.

[Kodama.6453]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:24 PM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

why is sneak gyro better version of mass invis?
always made me wonder that one

My question is: why you think it is better than mass invisibility?

Sneak gyro has longer cooldown, slightly more stealth (1,5 seconds more), but just applies to 5 targets against mass invisibility which affects 10. Also the stealth application from mass invisibility has higher range and is applying all at once, while for sneak gyro your allies have to stay close to you for 5 seconds to get the full stealth.

That is not taking into account the absolute meme that is WvW sneak gyro, just PvP values. So how is sneak gyro better, really?

[Dr Meta.3158]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

My question is: why you think it is better than mass invisibility?

Sneak gyro has longer cooldown, slightly more stealth (1,5 seconds more), but just applies to 5 targets against mass invisibility which affects 10. Also the stealth application from mass invisibility has higher range and is applying all at once, while for sneak gyro your allies have to stay close to you for 5 seconds to get the full stealth.

That is not taking into account the absolute meme that is WvW sneak gyro, just PvP values. So how is sneak gyro better, really?

Sneak gyro + superspeed

Mobility makes a massive difference in how strong stealth is. Ask any good thief player.

[semak.7481]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:12 PM, Shao.7236 said:

Friend did it to me and it works, in the end all I see from most mesmer players is whining and that nothing works as if they're the only ones having issues so whatever you say. Ignore the fact that you're wrong about IR.

What aphr said, it bugs out and gives you quickness and no transfer pretty often

most likely because of their imposing on mesmer only strict 100% facing requirement which is if your char slightly off, it wont work just like with mantras, making this utility a dead weight

[shion.2084]

4 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Sneak gyro + superspeed

Mobility makes a massive difference in how strong stealth is. Ask any good thief player.

Technically its a trait that gives you SS.

 

It is better cause it has smoke field on the pro side.

[Dr Meta.3158]

31 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

Technically its a trait that gives you SS.

 

It is better cause it has smoke field on the pro side.

Can you reword that. It is very unclear.

[shion.2084]

22 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Can you reword that. It is very unclear.

Sneak Gyro doesn't give you super speed.   It is the tier 1 trait in the scrapper specialty that gives you super speed.    

Sneak Gyro does have the advantage of a smoke field, which allows for leaps and blasts.

[apharma.3741]

15 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

 

Adding very small vulnerability windows in the middle of defensive skills just makes things feel janky for no reason. No one is purposefully timing their disables in the fraction of a second window where IR stability falls off all the vulnerability window means is some people get lucky and just ignore the skill entirely as it fails to do the main thing it is supposed to do. From your post history you're a mesmer main, imagine adding random vulnerability frames in the middle of distortion for absolutely no reason other than to add "a small moment of vulnerability that someone can capitalize on". Sounds like a great idea to me especially considering how unlike for IR there really is no counterplay to distortion other than waiting it out. No, that would be dumb idea and I don't believe for a second you would think differently. I disagree with Shao on a lot of the stuff he posts but I'm 100% with him on the IR stability gap it, it is just janky, it adds nothing to the game other than random moments of frustration, and I highly doubt you play any form of jalis rev regularly in pvp if you believe your own post.

That you're even trying to compare IR to distortion through a theoretical argument doesn't help your argument, the 2 are not even close to equatable, and you miss the entire reason the skill behaves like this in the first place. The stability at start is only to cover the cast, it was never meant to provide continuous stability from the moment you use it and it's original design was to allow counterplay to it's cast. I'd say go look up the notes but we were both here when Rev was in beta and it's utterly broken release so you already know this.
I have played Jalis quite a lot, and it's largely a non issue, you're not getting interrupted that often unless someone knew about the gap and timed it well. Even his "proof" videos were largely done in the FFA arena and staged. As you've been through my posting history you should also know I'm pro counterplay, I'm pro removing dumb distortion spam, criticize mirage cloak (often earning the ire of mesmers) for how it breaks the contract of fair play and has no counterplay and celebrated mantras getting their cast back as they're skills designed properly with moments of vulnerability.

As for the larger conversation, at least the meta isn't that bad, it's been way worse over the years both in how horrible it was to play and diversity.

[Dr Meta.3158]

3 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

Sneak Gyro doesn't give you super speed.   It is the tier 1 trait in the scrapper specialty that gives you super speed.    

Sneak Gyro does have the advantage of a smoke field, which allows for leaps and blasts.

I never said it did? Its like how black powder isn't a teleport or a leap but it doesn't have to be explicitly stated how a thief has both of those.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

On 3/10/2023 at 2:32 PM, DanSH.6143 said:

 

chrono has immunity to damage with about 80% uptime

 

No

Edited March 16, 2023 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[apharma.3741]

I wouldn't call a 1.5 damage coefficient strictly defensive but yeah keep making it about this and ignoring that the stab was only ever meant to cover the cast because rev is unique (FB tomes suffer this now) in that you interrupt the skill it goes on cool down, and you lose the energy/resource. It was never meant to give stab from use until roads, the stab was only added to guarantee the ability went off because it was too punishing to interrupt and ANet simply didn't have the ability to refund the energy. The skill was always meant to have counterplay because it's so strong, weakness, great damage, lightning field (super rare at the time) and pulsing stability all on 15s CD.

In fact, iirc someone was even complaining about the CD increase to 15s as it "messed up their rotation" so they couldn't use it every time in Jalis 🤣

[ZoXLike.9073]

if there are so many "OP" classes maybe its a skill issue if u cant play any of them xD

[Kuma.1503]

Tbh, I prefer metas where 10 things are broken and at least 1 build feels broken on every class to metas where 2 things are broken and everything else feels like griefing. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 3/16/2023 at 7:46 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

My question is: why you think it is better than mass invisibility?

Sneak gyro has longer cooldown, slightly more stealth (1,5 seconds more), but just applies to 5 targets against mass invisibility which affects 10. Also the stealth application from mass invisibility has higher range and is applying all at once, while for sneak gyro your allies have to stay close to you for 5 seconds to get the full stealth.

That is not taking into account the absolute meme that is WvW sneak gyro, just PvP values. So how is sneak gyro better, really?

because it has almost half the cast time and smoke field, so effectively it has more then twice the duration.
also mass invis like all mesmer stealth are kitten and dont stack with other stealths

[Arheundel.6451]

On 3/11/2023 at 10:02 AM, Khalisto.5780 said:

Bottom line

 

Everything i dont faceroll should be nerfed

 

 

That's pretty much it....anything I can't pewpew from safe distance with added mobility , or anything I can't outsustain by switching my brains off...anything like that it's OP and needs to be nerfed

[recipesw.7453]

I don't think ANet developers test the changes they make in real pvp matches.

If they did, they would have known that you can't have a class that is invisible most of the time like Deadeyes and also give these invisible guys insane damage.

Or scrappers that empty entire health bars with but a few explosives.

These things are easily noticeable by playing for minutes.

A few specs just feel as if they have no disadvantages.

[Sahne.6950]

26 minutes ago, recipesw.7453 said:

I don't think ANet developers test the changes they make in real pvp matches.

If they did, they would have known that you can't have a class that is invisible most of the time like Deadeyes and also give these invisible guys insane damage.

Or scrappers that empty entire health bars with but a few explosives.

These things are easily noticeable by playing for minutes.

A few specs just feel as if they have no disadvantages.

Necro is meta i see.

Edited January 3 by Sahne.6950