Lack of endgame content, update

[Linken.6345]

14 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

 

Then why are you concerned with "loss of profit"? 

 

Also, why are you asking for game updates if you barely provide financial support to the studio? Think devs are volunteers?

 

Not trying to be disrespectful, but you come across as someone who just wants as much of a free ride as possible, while everyone else pays for it. If you are really that concerned about "loss of profit" and lack of "updates and end game" stuff, then you'd probably support the game more willingly, without having some forced monthly sub.

 

And again, I would start following the dev posts so you can keep up to date. 

 

Finally, the lack of updates to the game after EoD was due to the fact that the devs started working on the next expansion right away. Fruits of those labors are detailed in the blog post I linked earlier. 

 

Have a great one!

It is good to know that the first mini expansion will be meaty, since they have had 4-5 times as long to make it then the other will have.

[Vayne.8563]

10 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Thank you, someone finally gets it. As much as people HATE to admit it, GW2 was not a brand that put themselves out there much compared to these other bigger brands and companies. Certain mmos have been around solely because of their BRAND name and that is an absolute undeniable fact that people repeatedly keep ignoring for whatever reason.

I've gotten it all along. I've always said Guild Wars 2 is a niche game, but it's a big niche. You can get known for being a niche game. If people who love WoW make fun of this game or think it's dead, that's okay. Because if they liked it and saw it as a threat, the odds are, I wouldn't like the game, and people like me wouldn't.  So many games are PvP centered at end game or raid centered.  Very few games are open world centered. This game has that as a strength.

I don't know a lot of games that have big meta events as a main feature of the game, but this game does. And there are people here who never raid and all they do is do meta events, and world completion and somehow, they not only survive, but they gear up and get what they want out of the game, which they don't even need.

For over 9 years I barely touched a raid, except a couple of false starts and some escort, which my guild did once a week for a period of time.  Now I've killed every raid boss and done a fair few CMs. I have most of the raid achievements. But it was a choice. I still had 9 years where I didn't have to.

 

It's not like Rift where I maxed out on planarite, the equivalent of karma, and had already bought everything you could with it. They didn't care, because they game didn't cater to people who wanted to play in the open world. It was an afterthought there, at least when I played.  If you didn't raid, you didn't progression. You couldn't even finish the main storyline without doing a raid.

 

I'm not sad raids exist in this game, because they're not required.  I have two more pieces of legendary armor to get and I'm done with all the legendary armor. Then it's just two rings and some sigils and I'm in full lengendary.  

 

But I didn't have to,. and I'd still have fun playing the game, even if I didn't raid or PvP.   I'm still making aurene legendaries, doing achievements, enjoying festivals. And I found that sort of thing a lot harder in other games.

So yeah, name recognition can be important, but then, so is having a niche. If everyone is going the same thing, and some people don't like it, it almost creates an oppotunity for the game.  If this game just tried to be another WOW or FF XIV, my guess is it would have failed.

[Khisanth.2948]

15 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If this game just tried to be another WOW or FF XIV, my guess is it would have failed.

Just like all those "wow killers"...

[IndigoSundown.5419]

"Lack of endgame content" is often used as a criticism by many different people who want different things.  What do YOU mean by it OP?  After all, ANet might deliver what I want but not what you want -- and If you didn't specify, you'd have no right to complain that they "didn't listen," which is another frequent criticism.

[Obtena.7952]

I love it:

1. Won't support the game by purchasing gems for GS items because 'can buy with gold'

2. Thinks a sub will lead to more endgame content because "WoW does it"

Guess who will be the FIRST person to quit the game when they have to pay a monthly sub? The people that don't purchase gems because 'can buy with gold'. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Crono.4197]

Oh boy, another entitled post. "I want this game to be like my favorite MMO because I say so!!! If it's different then it means it's a bad game!!!"

I wonder if I should go on WoW forums too and spam that I'm tired of subscription and infinite grinding and that I want the game to be more like Guild Wars 2. Hmmmm....

[Dreams.3128]

14 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

They're ignoring it because it isn't relevant.  Everyone understands that games like WoW/FFXIV are popular, established IPs with a huge fanbase and that GW2 is not.  So what?   Is GW2 scoring "underdog" points for having a smaller studio or something?

In other words, if your position comes down to "Look at how great GW2 is working with so little!", the counterpoint is "Yes, but it's still producing less."  The fact that it produces less is the part that matters.  That they developed something great with fewer resources is a cool anecdote, but ultimately has no bearing on a player's decision on which MMO to play.

Clearly it does if GW2 still has a noticeably healthy numbers to function as an mmo and clearly keep people entertained for over a decade even with the introductions of the behemoths and standing up to the grandfathers of mmos. What happened to those other mmos that were supposed to be better than even WoW? What happened to MMOs like SWTOR? Star Wars is a big name, right? It copied WoW's formula, right? It has a sub, correct? It was even considered a huge mmo back in its hayday. What happened there? If I log into the Jedi side it's a literal ghost town, while on the Sith side it's just afk land. 

GW2 is not without fault. It has a lot of fault in fact. I could list off many for you. The point is, clearly, it is doing its job enough where people can come back, the population is noticeable still large in-game (no not the forums, you people make up a small percentage), and content can still be done without much issue except for things that require a bit more elbow grease. It's succeeding without needing to copy and paste like FF did, because let's be honest,  FF copied WoW done to the tee and got VERY lucky. Ridiculously lucky to the point where people say it will always be considered a fluke.

So, trying to hamfist a sub into the mix would only strike negative points onto GW2 since someone explained it very clearly: GW2 has been kept alive by its niche, which is the horizontal grind, casual catering, and overall relaxed gameplay. Saying otherwise is just arguing with the air.
 

[Sarm.5923]

I guess this might be the best place to ask this, and I guess I already know the answer since I'm leaning hard on "no" but interested in thoughts anyway:

 

As someone who's only interested in playing solo (elementalist) but isn't driven by collecting achievements, is End of Dragons worth the price right now? I had mostly enjoyed GW2's story when I went through it, but I found myself petering out hard after I finished it. I didn't mind that, since I got the HoT/PoF combo via the discounted $15 offer, but given that I'd only be buying the expansion for the story (Catalyst doesn't look fun to me), $30 feels like too steep an asking price for me when I'm not compelled by the endgame that's available to me.

[Luthan.5236]

I wonder what people mean with "lack of endgame content". The gear treadmill is not wanted/needed here - since then the game would compete more diretly with WoW and the likes. (And players could just play WoW cause it is better at gear treadmills while the core player base that dislikes them would leave GW2.)

Raid stuff: You have different stuff there. And it always comes down to repeating the same content. Even if they added a new one ... people would have done the first playthrough quickly. They can't just spam content here. (Besides new players will then have a harder time to catch up when doing all the achievements.)

There is WvW, PvP ... and PvE. Lots of stuff to do. I bet a lot of people that claim there is no end game content - have not even grinded out all the grindier achievements. Or they are trying to ignore some game modes. You can also switch between different PvE stuff. Playing different stuff ... while ... maybe completing all your legendaries and all the new skin variants they added.

Also: If they add new stuff they need to keep in mind that the amount of people that like raids and stuff ... is not as big as the amount of players that like the other more casual stuff. The main focus needs to be to add replayable open world content and fun zones to explore + achievements. That is what they do.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Luthan.5236

[yoni.7015]

With raids, WvW, fractals, strike missions and meta events I have enough endgame content to keep me busy. I am currently working on my fifth legendary armor set, the PvE armor for the skin. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by yoni.7015

[soul.9651]

15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That makes no sense whatsoever. You have no idea how many people would leave GW2 if Anet went to a sub-based model. 

It would all depend on how much content and what content we would be getting if they changed to sub-based model. If it would stay how it is rn then noone would pay that sub, but if that would mean that we would be getting new instanced content and new maps every 2 months or something like that people definetely wouldnt mind paying the sub. I mean maybe a sub model would also mean that anet would be getting enough resources to keep up with content production faster, but if they did nothing different from how it is rn it would be a disaster for them. 

[Morvran.8265]

I hate it when people pretend that GW2 is some indie game and use that as an excuse for the state of the game. Before launch GW2 hype was massive, it was marketed as the new and better WoW. While it couldn't dethrone it the game for years was widely recognized as the #2 MMO in the west.

If we're anything less than that now that's solely because of Anet's continous mismanagement, not because of being unknown in the genre, and people are right to point out the obvious decline in quality and quantity of patches.

[Gibson.4036]

35 minutes ago, Morvran.8265 said:

I hate it when people pretend that GW2 is some indie game and use that as an excuse for the state of the game.

Agreed, but...

35 minutes ago, Morvran.8265 said:

 it was marketed as the new and better WoW.

It wasn't marketed as a new and better WoW. It was marketed as the anti-WoW. The MMO for people who dislike a lot of the things MMO had come to mean.

36 minutes ago, Morvran.8265 said:

Before launch GW2 hype was massive,

Hype was massive among a certain subset of MMO players. But even at launch a good portion of mainstream MMO players had difficulty seperating it from what they understood about GW1. It wasn't uncommon to read, "Isn't that a lobby game?" and "not a true MMO".

It was definitely more successful at launch than even ArenaNet expected. They weren't aiming to kill off WoW, they were aiming to carve out an alternative space within the MMO niche. It was clear that they got surprised by just how many people jumped in.

42 minutes ago, Morvran.8265 said:

If we're anything less than that now that's solely because of Anet's continous mismanagement, not because of being unknown in the genre, and people are right to point out the obvious decline in quality and quantity of patches.

I believe it was actually GW2's unexpected success that was the foundation of much of what has gone wrong with GW2 (though I think GW2 has done a ton right). ArenaNet was aiming for Alternative MMO. They got that audience, but also got a massive response from all the people perfectly happy with WoW becuase they try out new MMOs or jump to other MMOs while waiting for the next WoW expansion.

Over ten years GW2 has continually tried to figure out how to please mainstream MMOers while periodically rediscovering their "manifesto". This has muddied the vision for GW2, making it inconsistent and unfocused. This, in spite of having such clarity at the start.

[voltaicbore.8012]

For anyone still in here, just check out OP's posting history. Not all of it is like this, but there's a lot of "transplant X thing from Y game because I think it's cool" suggestions. This just seems to be his MO.

3 hours ago, Sarm.5923 said:

I guess this might be the best place to ask this, and I guess I already know the answer since I'm leaning hard on "no" but interested in thoughts anyway:

 

As someone who's only interested in playing solo (elementalist) but isn't driven by collecting achievements, is End of Dragons worth the price right now? I had mostly enjoyed GW2's story when I went through it, but I found myself petering out hard after I finished it. I didn't mind that, since I got the HoT/PoF combo via the discounted $15 offer, but given that I'd only be buying the expansion for the story (Catalyst doesn't look fun to me), $30 feels like too steep an asking price for me when I'm not compelled by the endgame that's available to me.

Not sure this is the best place to ask (probably should have started your own thread with that question), but I'll bite.

No.

It sounds like your engagement with the game is fairly narrow (solo, one class, not into achievements, pretty much just mainline story). EoD has some story, sure, but compared to your HoT/PoF bundle, it's a pretty steep price for mostly stuff you're not interested in.

I unironically suggest that if the only thing you like is elementalist, try Genshin Impact. They basically made an entire game out of a simplified (and in many ways, improved) version of ele.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, soul.9651 said:

It would all depend on how much content and what content we would be getting if they changed to sub-based model. If it would stay how it is rn then noone would pay that sub, but if that would mean that we would be getting new instanced content and new maps every 2 months or something like that people definetely wouldnt mind paying the sub.

No. You wouldn't mind paying the sub. Many other players would, however, because B2P model was one of the important reasons why they picked that game in the first place. Also, notice, that not even FF XIV is getting new instanced content and new maps every 2 months, and that game definitely has way more resources than GW2 does.

[prototypedragon.1406]

On 3/28/2023 at 5:38 PM, Quirin.1076 said:

I never understand why people come to GW2 and ask for the game to change.  The game is great and the staff they have does a wonderful job for what resources they have.  There is plenty of content for everyone and if someone wants specific content then say specifically what they are looking for instead of saying they want more.  I buy gems with money when I can to help support the developers.   I do enjoy exploring everything, including all the easter egg conversations from the NPC's.   

Guild wars2 is a great game depending on the game modes that see active adjustments and non biased balancing . However a hidden discord discussion was brought to light a while ago and the devs have been trying to bury it since. Granted with balancing it shall always be a juggling act but if you are handed the keys to several different vehicles and only put new tires on the cars that you prefer over trying to make sure all the cars are in at least decent condition. Then those that end up borrowing (playing as) the unkept cars and when they drive several miles and the vehicle breaks down in the middle of nowhere without any reception then that individual is soul. Unless they only choose the car that the devs like to drive and maintain. There has been some maintenance but if only one tire is replaced you still end up with 3 flat tires sooner than later.

[Woof.8246]

39 minutes ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

Guild wars2 is a great game depending on the game modes that see active adjustments and non biased balancing . However a hidden discord discussion was brought to light a while ago and the devs have been trying to bury it since. Granted with balancing it shall always be a juggling act but if you are handed the keys to several different vehicles and only put new tires on the cars that you prefer over trying to make sure all the cars are in at least decent condition. Then those that end up borrowing (playing as) the unkept cars and when they drive several miles and the vehicle breaks down in the middle of nowhere without any reception then that individual is soul. Unless they only choose the car that the devs like to drive and maintain. There has been some maintenance but if only one tire is replaced you still end up with 3 flat tires sooner than later.

I remember people from said hidden discord (raiders?) , trying to stir something in reddit , telling other peoples that the devs  think they are stupid . But in actuality devs simply said "there will be a lot of crying from the patch-notes", while the conversation was between his "hidden council-friends".

I remember Mulluk checking that 37-57 page conversation and didn't found anything offensive.

 

Thanks god that hidden channel stopped and any drama that came with it

Edited March 30, 2023 by Woof.8246

[stormemperor.3745]

On 3/28/2023 at 12:27 AM, kawaiiboy.2685 said:

is arenanet aware that gw2 is better than WoW, BDO, final fantasy? 

there's a demand for more but ArenaNet is not doing anything they are ignoring the demand equals loss of profit.

Is it because the game does not have subscription like WoW? 

End game is fashion and gw2 doesn't have enough armor skins. We need more variety

Confused for what? even anet confirms fashion is end game

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by stormemperor.3745

[Khisanth.2948]

3 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

It would all depend on how much content and what content we would be getting if they changed to sub-based model. If it would stay how it is rn then noone would pay that sub, but if that would mean that we would be getting new instanced content and new maps every 2 months or something like that people definetely wouldnt mind paying the sub. I mean maybe a sub model would also mean that anet would be getting enough resources to keep up with content production faster, but if they did nothing different from how it is rn it would be a disaster for them. 

The game's earnings have been increasing in the last ~3 years so that is great but do you think the quality of the game's content has been increasing in the last 3 years as well?

[Gibson.4036]

13 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

The game's earnings have been increasing in the last ~3 years so that is great but do you think the quality of the game's content has been increasing in the last 3 years as well?

It is funny the people assume increased earnings will automatically be put back into expanding the game.

[Anyandrell.6238]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:27 PM, kawaiiboy.2685 said:

is arenanet aware that gw2 is better than WoW, BDO, final fantasy? 

there's a demand for more but ArenaNet is not doing anything they are ignoring the demand equals loss of profit.

Is it because the game does not have subscription like WoW? 

Guild Wars 2's end game? I'd say it's fashion. Where does GW2's most revenue come? From gemstore. A.k.a. fashion enthusiasts.

There is a lot of other kinds of endgame for a very varied player base.

There are those who are in it for PVP/WvW

There are those who are in it for fractals, raids and CM strikes

There are those who are in it for metas and general chilling out.

There are those who are in it for showing off.

The last two categories are the ones who buy the most from the gemstore.

Personally I am more in the "chilling out" category. I do fractals, raids and CM strikes once in a while, metas almost always. I don't really care about subscription, I buy anyways anywhere from $10 to $30 a month stuff from the gemstore.

And I played the game since the very beginning, so 10+ years. I can honestly say that there is A LOT that I still discover and go "how the heck did I play for so long and didn't know this?"

 

 

[Khaos.6479]

I'm kinda agree with the lack of end game. I have all the legendary sigil/rune/trinkets (except the last PVE ring). I have the light legendary armor (I'm building the medium and heavy, I just need 2 more weeks to have the LI that I need). I'm also building the greasword of Aurene. I have plenty of legendray weapons G1/G2.

 

And then what ? There is nothing left to do for me 😕  

[Despot.3048]

Go find something else to play then. 

[voltaicbore.8012]

6 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It is funny the people assume increased earnings will automatically be put back into expanding the game.

Here's the thing - even if money is put back into the game, that's no guarantee the game will actually improve. What I've seen IRL in non-manufacturing businesses is that if the main attempt to solve a problem is first and foremost throwing more money at it, the end result is the exact same product just with more waste and expense.

On that note, Anet's most recent statement (on its surface) does not seem to be making that mistake. I don't see any mention of "expanding the team" or any other telltale signs of "we're throwing money at the problem." Instead, it appears to be all about trying something different with the resources they have on hand. Of course, we've heard this sort of story before: Anet tries new thing! And.... it just kinda fizzles out over time.

But overall I think my point stands: more money =/= better game. For all the things I might not consider optimal about Anet, mischaracterizing GW2's problems as money problems isn't one of them. It seems quite stupid to blindly believe that more money is what Anet needs to solve problems, when Anet themselves don't seem to make a big stink about it.

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Here's the thing - even if money is put back into the game, that's no guarantee the game will actually improve. What I've seen IRL in non-manufacturing businesses is that if the main attempt to solve a problem is first and foremost throwing more money at it, the end result is the exact same product just with more waste and expense.

On that note, Anet's most recent statement (on its surface) does not seem to be making that mistake. I don't see any mention of "expanding the team" or any other telltale signs of "we're throwing money at the problem." Instead, it appears to be all about trying something different with the resources they have on hand. Of course, we've heard this sort of story before: Anet tries new thing! And.... it just kinda fizzles out over time.

But overall I think my point stands: more money =/= better game. For all the things I might not consider optimal about Anet, mischaracterizing GW2's problems as money problems isn't one of them. It seems quite stupid to blindly believe that more money is what Anet needs to solve problems, when Anet themselves don't seem to make a big stink about it.

While more money doesn't guarantee a better product, not enough money does guarantee slow development.  Given the spotty release cadence and constant restructuring I think it's pretty obvious that money is an issue.