willbender absolutely wrecking everyone

[Eddbopkins.2630]

The spiny kick does to much damage and has to short a cool down imo.

However I feel utility skills should be use for utility  purposes like quality of life such as stun brakers, stability, or condi clears, and damage should only come from the weapon skills. This seems fair for all classes but the devs have no real pvp sence when it comes to creating classes and the system we are forced to play it seems. At least to me.

[Balsa.3951]

i play dh they often kill themselves on traps.

 

i personally wish to play wb but i get wrecked

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

9 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

As a G3/Plat1 WB main and some one who HAS owned players 1v2... we are honestly one of the worse 1v1 classes around within the meta. In fact we are so bad on sidenodes that it's probably the #1 reason why we're not meta.

This is true.
Don't sidenode as willbender, its for headbutting an occupied fight like a no-stealth thief.
I wouldn't say it's a bad 1v1 class, but I definitely think you're not playing to your strength if you're not  overwhelming an originally even fight with your presence.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 5/16/2023 at 3:07 PM, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Power Herald gameplay used to be beautiful, the embodiment of risk/reward

No, it was honestly straight up obnoxiously over powered for years man.

Power Herald has honestly probably seen more representation over the years than any other build to date for that reason.

What Rev players are feeling now, is when their class is finally for the first time, not a top OP broken meta. The game play that Rev specs feel now, is what many other classes have felt for years, the ones that never make it to meta builds or are immediately nerfed if they do.

I mean in contrast to metas and underperforming specs, I'd rate current Rev specs like this:

1. Vindicator (A+)
2. Power Herald (A)
3. Condi Herald (A)
4. Renegade (C) "Ren is actually in a bad useless state right now"

In years past you guys were working with:

1. Vindactor on release (S++)
2. Power Herald from HOT release to EOD release (S+)
3. Condi Herald from HOT release to midway POF (S-)
4. Renegade before it was shut down midway POF (S)

That there ^ is just abnormal allowance of abusive levels of meta driving power, and it was allowed to do that for a very very long time. A lot of straight Rev mains were desensitized from this and when their class was brought into line now, they think it's underpowered but in reality it's just actually balanced for once.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sereath.1428]

Trevor moment.

By the way, Power Herald was still left untouched for a very long time after the PT and Infuse nerf, still a good spec. What happened is that with EOD it became unplayable. It just couldn't keep up.
Balance is relative.
My whole text was about power creep. If anyone thinks that WB has a rough time right now, oof, dont even bother with Power Herald.

And It's funny because you have been complaining about the same thing for a while now, power creep. From there that I called it crazy that WB is overall a better and more complete spec.
Something better than the monster that was Power Herald and with a lower skill floor? bruh, genius idea. And yeah it is ridiculous how WB cant still compete after that fact with the rest of the specs.

⚠️
More text:

Balance still looks horrible to me, very rigid build diversity as in only the builds approved by CMC and pvp addicts get to be competitive.

This game mode is hopeless in my eyes when everyone (the aforementioned people) is so hyperfixated on having it being played in only a particular way = around imaginary roles, i.e., roamer, duelist, teamfighter, sidenoder, support, etc.
It completely goes against the nature of certain specs and even whole classes that are meant to have a little bit of everything, i.e., elementalist, revenant.
And those are never changing because 98% of the rest of the game and players have no problem with that, in fact, thats why they play them.

Thats why 2v2 and other gamemodes are so bad. And yes, they dont even bother giving people more actual game modes because there wouldn't even be the budget for more balance dev time.
Minimum effort moment.

Even WvW with its kitten problems (celestial and some meme builds ohk'ing people for 30k) feels more fun to almost everyone. Compared to sPvP it has alot more build diversity (bruiser amulets/runes bad! stick to your role!), the player activity speaks by itself and ANET knows it even if they only update it every 8 months. When was the last sPvP update?

Expect no growth.

(This is the embodiment of a tangent)

Edited May 18, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 minutes ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Trevor moment.

It's all true though.

[oscuro.9720]

20 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

As a G3/Plat1 WB main and some one who HAS owned players 1v2... we are honestly one of the worse 1v1 classes around within the meta. In fact we are so bad on sidenodes that it's probably the #1 reason why we're not meta.

Cata/AnyWar/BS/Untamed/Reaper/Harb/Herald/DE/Daredevil/Virtuoso/Chrono/Scrapper/Holo.... these all owns us 1v1 and pretty horrifically sometimes. Not all of these classes are meta and we still get owned 1v1.

The fact OP says a WB 1v2'd them meant it was a higher rated player vs lower rated players who weren't even on meta builds.

Why does it do poorly 1v1? I know very little about Willy except for what their skills are. It seems the spec has the tools to be a high skill ceiling spec, so I’m curious what you think is limiting it.

[Saiyan.1704]

1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Why does it do poorly 1v1? I know very little about Willy except for what their skills are. It seems the spec has the tools to be a high skill ceiling spec, so I’m curious what you think is limiting it.

A high ceiling spec compared to... well compared to who eh? Let's take WB vs Deadeye thief.

The DE will port all around our extremely physical melee skills with ease. We'll get lucky to land a single Whirling Wrath burst but we wouldn't land much else and this is with the help of Judges Intervention port. We'd be lucky to land F1 and even if we did that's 2k damage at best? F3 damage doesn't land because it's easily telegraphed and we need to land 5 hits to proc a single Aegis and throughout the fight you'll barely land 3hits on the DE.

All the while we're stunlocked and getting bursted at range. We use maybe Focus#4 for range damage/blocks... GS#5 to attempt to land a CC pull, or perhaps a Sword#5 to engage praying they don't have another stealth + port, Lets also do a F2 to evade... what's left uh.. Renewed Focus and an attempt to F3 + F1 + F2 evade and cast our very melee oriented skills against a very range oriented class that's able to dodge/stealth/port/range burst over and over..... it's an utterly sad...sad.. downhill battle...Willbender loses 100% of the time because we can't stick to a target to guarantee damage.

The above can be said about a lot of ranged specs including Harbringer/Reaper/Ranger/Cata/Warrior

You would think we'd be good against melee oriented classes like Cata and Warrior or even Virtuoso but they have so many evades/vulnerability/physical invuln/distorts/blocks/etc.. that it's equivalent to fighting a perma stealth+dodge Deadeye. We have difficulty landing any power hits. No hits means no damage. No damage means we don't get F2 heals and no F3 blocks. 

Willbender is so telegraphed that almost every single class can 1v1 it.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Saiyan.1704

[Dr Meta.3158]

4 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

A high ceiling spec compared to... well compared to who eh? Let's take WB vs Deadeye thief.

The DE will port all around our extremely physical melee skills with ease. We'll get lucky to land a single Whirling Wrath burst but we wouldn't land much else and this is with the help of Judges Intervention port. We'd be lucky to land F1 and even if we did that's 2k damage at best? F3 damage doesn't land because it's easily telegraphed and we need to land 5 hits to proc a single Aegis and throughout the fight you'll barely land 3hits on the DE.

All the while we're stunlocked and getting bursted at range. We use maybe Focus#4 for range damage/blocks... GS#5 to attempt to land a CC pull, or perhaps a Sword#5 to engage praying they don't have another stealth + port, Lets also do a F2 to evade... what's left uh.. Renewed Focus and an attempt to F3 + F1 + F2 evade and cast our very melee oriented skills against a very range oriented class that's able to dodge/stealth/port/range burst over and over..... it's an utterly sad...sad.. downhill battle...Willbender loses 100% of the time because we can't stick to a target to guarantee damage.

The above can be said about a lot of ranged specs including Harbringer/Reaper/Ranger/Cata/Warrior

You would think we'd be good against melee oriented classes like Cata and Warrior or even Virtuoso but they have so many evades/vulnerability/physical invuln/distorts/blocks/etc.. that it's equivalent to fighting a perma stealth+dodge Deadeye. We have difficulty landing any power hits. No hits means no damage. No damage means we don't get F2 heals and no F3 blocks. 

Willbender is so telegraphed that almost every single class can 1v1 it.

I wouldn't compare it to deadeye. Deadeye should have never been made and has been a problem since the day it was released. The problem has only lessened over time where now it is a problem in the hands of the competent rather than a problem regardless of who uses it.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Dr Meta.3158
Spelling and grammar

[Goldilock.2584]

Willy is good and fun to play but it has to many counters to be meta or played in ranked outside of u are vs peeps who dont know what willy can achieve.

[Burnfall.9573]

30 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

I wouldn't compare it to deadeye. Deadeye should have never been made and has a problem since the day it was released. The problem only lessened go where it is a problem in the hand of the competent rather than a problem regardless of who uses it.

This

[Ferus.3165]

Basicly WB is only a +1 spec atm. It does the same job as a thief but with actual animations and actual cooldowns and without stealth and less cc. And because all this broken stuff is missing for wb it is simply a worse version of a thief. Still a lot of fun in wvw but not really worth playing in pvp.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

11 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

No, it was honestly straight up obnoxiously over powered for years man.

Power Herald has honestly probably seen more representation over the years than any other build to date for that reason.

To be fair that's a problem with willbender. Willbender and power Herald do exactly the same thing in exactly the same way, there's no room to have both in the meta. Either wb is stronger -and ph is useless- or ph is better -and you don't take wb-. WB has slightly more frontloaded damage and PH has slightly better utility (ranged chill, reveal, unblockable) but they absolutely deny one another. Unlike what happens with support guardian and support tempest, which both have their own niche and matchups.

[apharma.3741]

58 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

To be fair that's a problem with willbender. Willbender and power Herald do exactly the same thing in exactly the same way, there's no room to have both in the meta. Either wb is stronger -and ph is useless- or ph is better -and you don't take wb-. WB has slightly more frontloaded damage and PH has slightly better utility (ranged chill, reveal, unblockable) but they absolutely deny one another. Unlike what happens with support guardian and support tempest, which both have their own niche and matchups.

I remember saying exactly this in regards to supports and how they should all be differentiated so they compete within the support role but have different strengths and weaknesses.
It's a major issue across the game with elite specs though where they all compete for the same role, often in the same way and some even have different specs on the same class competing for this! Mindblowing. 🤯

[SevlisBavles.3059]

The concept is just dumb. They should never have built a Thief-like specialization into a platform that has access to so many sustain skills and traits. Regardless of how different Willbender plays out at different levels, there is too much potential for kitten builds with too much of a mix between sustain and insane damage. 

This game is just a bingo now in terms of balancing, there are so many egregious builds, chrono, condi reaper, bladesworn, willbender that result in so many matchups you are just entirely unwinnable. Some engagements should favour one type of build over the other, but Willbender has too many build possibilities that are just unkillable to some professions. It's nothing like Shout Warrior or bunker Scourge or other dumb kitten, but it's very much of symptom of everything that is wrong with the current "balance". EoD wasn't made with PvP in mind and it's completely ravaged the gamemode.

Edited May 19, 2023 by SevlisBavles.3059

[Kuma.1503]

The only annoying part of Willbender is the immob after they port on you. 

I try to follow the sage advice of the forums and just dodge, but I can't. My aging brain takes several seconds to realize why my dodge isn't working. Then I'm dead. 

Then they dance away chanting "skill issue" as my screen turns grey. 

 

We should delete immob obviously. No counterplay. /s

[Myror.7521]

@Saiyan.1704 I mean you are not good in Holding a node cause you are not a Point holder as willbender. That spec is more Like a roamer/plus one xd

[melcor.1094]

It is mobility power creep at its finest. Disgusting if you ask me. 

[Bazsi.2734]

I am approaching 20 games on this new ranked season. I have seen 0 willbenders so far. I imagine it must be so OP that it's straight up boring.

[Kuma.1503]

On 5/17/2023 at 11:16 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

No, it was honestly straight up obnoxiously over powered for years man.

Power Herald has honestly probably seen more representation over the years than any other build to date for that reason.

What Rev players are feeling now, is when their class is finally for the first time, not a top OP broken meta. The game play that Rev specs feel now, is what many other classes have felt for years, the ones that never make it to meta builds or are immediately nerfed if they do.

I mean in contrast to metas and underperforming specs, I'd rate current Rev specs like this:

1. Vindicator (A+)
2. Power Herald (A)
3. Condi Herald (A)
4. Renegade (C) "Ren is actually in a bad useless state right now"

In years past you guys were working with:

1. Vindactor on release (S++)
2. Power Herald from HOT release to EOD release (S+)
3. Condi Herald from HOT release to midway POF (S-)
4. Renegade before it was shut down midway POF (S)

That there ^ is just abnormal allowance of abusive levels of meta driving power, and it was allowed to do that for a very very long time. A lot of straight Rev mains were desensitized from this and when their class was brought into line now, they think it's underpowered but in reality it's just actually balanced for once.

Tfw you play garbage like core engi for so long that picking up Renegade makes you think "Hey, this isn't so bad actually"

Guess the inverse is also true ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Arheundel.6451]

This is not wvw...without celestial,  willbender is not that great overall...it's not used anywhere 

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

This is not wvw...without celestial,  willbender is not that great overall...it's not used anywhere 

   That's funny due in WvW power Willbender is arguably much stronger than the celestial or traiblazer variants of the spec. I agree in that gear variety in stats, runes and glyphs allows much better builds for WB in WvW, tho.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 While I agree in that Herald had maybe the largest run for a spec as meta in PvP and deserved some cuts (which got, in spades) that nerfs should have aimed to numbers instead of breaking the gameplay. And you're delusional if you think that any current Rev spec has any chance vs the top EoD specs and the current PvP meta.

[Saiyan.1704]

17 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Saiyan.1704 I mean you are not good in Holding a node cause you are not a Point holder as willbender. That spec is more Like a roamer/plus one xd

But didn't you know that Willbenders can 1 vs 3 and farm the whole team? The OP is at a prime rating of Silver 2. He knows what he's talking about. Monthly teams go to him for advice.