Is anyone actually happy with Rev and\or Ren and Vindi? (and no thats not a sequel to Ren and Stimpy!)

[Joxer.6024]

I see so many posts of people just complaining and winging about the class, and while being upset on some things or wishing something could be better is totally ok, why so much hate? 

I kinda like my Rev, more so Renegade and Vindi is growing on me but man, why even bother to play if people that upset? Or does all the tears actually do something, as in does ANET pay attention? Now that would be cool, for them to actually act on some things people suggest.

Ah well, was just curious as the class and specs dont seem that bad overall.  😉

Edited May 20, 2023 by Joxer.6024

[Ulysses.2058]

I've been playing Revenant almost exclusively since HoT, and can say the profession and its e-specs feel fun to play overall, at least for me –maybe less so Renegade, and that's mostly because of its boring utilities.

However, gameplay could be improved by a lot if ANet sat down and focused on the problems of both core Rev and the e-specs. That's where most complaints come from imo, and I'd say justified.

[Esufer.8762]

I am, I wish that hammer was a bit less meh. Maybe a couple extra weapons added to core overall. Class is fine.

[zeyeti.8347]

1 hour ago, Esufer.8762 said:

I am, I wish that hammer was a bit less meh. Maybe a couple extra weapons added to core overall. Class is fine.

Yes thats maybe my own personal downside for rev. in general , i really like vindi. and herald , not a fan of renegade .

And thats why i hate the hammer , it's the only ranged option for those two , and it is so bad , so slow , and have some weird skills , like skill 3 is for what ? dodging ? that the only think i could see of it ...

But in general rev. feels good to play , the energy management add something special to this class.

Edited May 19, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Fueki.4753]

I like to play my Shortbow Viper Renegade more than anything else in this game. It's decently fun, it's easy to use, it does good enough damage, it's ranged. It doesn't need to be touched upon and risk getting broken.

If they want to touch anything on Revenant, Arenanet should look towards core and beef up those trait lines, as well as fix Hammer.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Mhina.1827]

I'm a fairly recent convert to Rev. Was a thief main a long time. Vindicator is beautifully executed in my opinion, even though it feels noticeably different to me in PvP compared to its pre-February iteration. Herald makes me feel like a valuable team contributor in PvE while still allowing me to do respectable damage at a decently engaging APM. So yeah. I like it. Just wish it had more strength in this 2 v 2 PvP season. 

[Buran.3796]

20 hours ago, Joxer.6024 said:

why even bother to play if people that upset? Or does all the tears actually do something, as in does ANET pay attention?

   They rarely listen unless when a problem damages his business.

   Core is not bad, but not very good at anything special, which is shared for most of core professions in the game: outside some roles for core Guardian or Necro almost every elite spec is better than the vanilla classes.

   Herald is (was) my most played spec and my favourite in terms of gameplay, but that was in a time in which its flow was very different (and also the performance). I stopped playing it when EoD arrived since the nerfs in WvW/PvP were massive, and in PvE the power version was always weak in terms of AoE damage (although condi Herald was very good in PvE). Currently I only play it as a meme PvP bunker variant; I don't think I would ever play it again in PvE or WvW. In general can't compete vs EoD specs in terms of mobility, damage or condition cleanses, so there's no point for using it ouside instanced content (which I don't do).

   I was never fan of Renegade, but the changes in the bow made it enjoyable (as long as you ditch Kalla). Ended being too powerful in PvP, so was overnerfed, but the buffs to Salvation made it decent again. Currently is the only Rev spec that I can play and enjoy in all game modes, and the only support oriented spec which I play in meta events. Is not great in any game mode, but serviceable.

   After struggling against him for a year (tons of changes, very litle resemblance with the second beta) , Vindicator is for me in a good spot in PvE: what I like most is doing content alone and not dying, and bot power and hybrid variants are very tanky (I prefer power due the mobility and gameplay but celestial is arguably more powerful). In WvW is decent and I enjoy it despite Willbender is for me a better choice. In PvP in think is garbage and didn't like it even when was overpowered.

   So: I like current Vindicator for solo PvE and roaming, Renegade for meta events (albeit is the only Rev spec I could use at any game mode with some success) and depise what Herald has become. I have 3 Revs and two of each other professions (outside Mesmer: a single one is enough and does the things better than 90% of the rest). Overall Revs are a good choice but my problem is that my fav game mode is PvP and performance of Rev in that is less than stellar there.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Vindi is my favorite espec in the game by far. There's plenty of things I would change about it, but I still love how alliance stance plays, and I'm a sucker for eternity.

[Mhina.1827]

30 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

After struggling against him for a year (tons of changes, very litle resemblance with the second beta) , Vindicator is for me in a good spot in PvE: what I like most is doing content alone and not dying, and bot power and hybrid variants are very tanky (I prefer power due the mobility and gameplay but celestial is arguably more powerful).

Would love to know your PvE setup for Vindi! And I feel so vindicated (no pun intended) in hearing a veteran Rev PvPer say that Vindi isn't doing well right now PvP wise. This 2 v 2 season was the worst I've ended in ranked PvP in a long time after trying to force Vindi to work for me. Apparently I need to play bunker herald. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I'm on the mediocre side of the spectrum myself.  It's usually a bunch of little things, but right now my two biggest gripes are that hammer is just awful to play now and that Herald is bad for hand health.  On the WvW side I hate how everything was nerfed to cut down on rev burst, paradoxically making everything but their burst rotation nigh unviable.  I find myself playing renegade a lot, largely because it is well rounded and Shortbow makes playing the game one handed a lot easier.

[draxynnic.3719]

There's a degree to which when people are making specific complaints rather than general "this sucks" complaints, that's often a sign that people are engaged and the core of the thing being complained about is okay, there's just a series of things that are annoying enough that resolving them would make it that much better.

There are a lot of issues with revenant, whether at the core class level or regarding specific elite specialisations, but at the bottom line they are definitely functional.

[otto.5684]

PvE wise, rev right now is in a good spot with tons of gameplay variety options. 

[Virdo.1540]

Apart from hammer being disgusting and rev being a wandering bug, i like it.

Hammer & shield need some love, as well as mallyx with handling condis

Edited May 21, 2023 by Virdo.1540

[jokebox.9803]

Vindicator is the most pleasant gameplay I found so far. There is a lot do to but still, many things to fix also...
Nomad advance and 3GS are a pain to use properly. Some of the alliance skills are so easy to interrupt (animation is too long). 
I really like to play it in WvW (roaming, zerg), PvP and PvE.

Renegade is funny, in GvG for strip / alac / cc or roaming. I never used the legend of renegade ^^'.

Herald is good but too much "double tap" on it. 

Hammer is full of bugs : long animation, no damage on 5H, 2H damages sometimes doesnt connect at all...
Shield...Hum. Except for very special use in spvp (bunker), it feel so rusty and lack of mobility to be in the current "good pick".
Mace and axe also deserve some love...

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

I've never understood some of the complaints, like one whinging about the animations for vindicator like how many different ways do they expect someone to swing a sword or how else do they expect them to charge? Vindicator is one of my favorite classes to play, and the leaps some make to try and say it's not viable is laughable. Most of which either demonstrating they play the class poorly or are just going off hand offs from what others tell them.

Renegade I am still getting into but it's also been fun. I swap my classes around to fill roles when needed (something a lot of leaders seem unwilling to do I notice) so I will go herald, or renegade, or just all out vindi DPS. And I like that as a vindi I can be a clutch healer too.

[draxynnic.3719]

22 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I've never understood some of the complaints, like one whinging about the animations for vindicator like how many different ways do they expect someone to swing a sword or how else do they expect them to charge? Vindicator is one of my favorite classes to play, and the leaps some make to try and say it's not viable is laughable. Most of which either demonstrating they play the class poorly or are just going off hand offs from what others tell them.

Yeah. I have theme and design issues with Vindicator, but it is absolutely playable.

[Infinity.2876]

Herald elite dragon breath go booom!

[Mecto.9274]

PvP Buffs to Herald

Buff Enchanted Daggers - Make them Unlockable. 

Add Resistance to one of the dragons' facets.

Increase Burst of Strength damage increase to 10 percent and increase duration to 7 seconds.

Give us 2 of stacks of might on draconic echo or change it back to quickness.

In Herald Minor trait change damage increase per boon from 1% to 2%

Increase Notoriety from 40 might to 50 might.

Increase might stacks on Shared Empowerment  to make it a viable choice.

Reduce energy cost on Riposting Shadows to 35 energy

Take away cd on Phase traversal

Make staff 5 instant cast or make the ramp up time to use skill faster ( since staff 5 does no damage i don't see issue with it being instant)

Cleasing Channel increase from 1 condition removal to 2 condition removal

Increase infused light heal back to 3 seconds

Increase auto damage on Swords

Make it to where there isn't a damage drop on chilling isolation if you hit more than 1 target

Give immobilize on every hit of shackling wave

Either increase the finally hit of Deathstrike or give the first hit more damage

Change brutality or make it boon rip with quickness

Change the Grandmaster in Herald that give you increased strike damage depending on active facets - Change it to a stackable buff after using a consume skill that gives you increase damage up to 15 percent increase damage if you use all facets with a duration of 5 seconds on each stack

Make staff 2 a blast finsiher

Give more damage to autos in sword/sword or increase vuln stack it applies - Currenty gets about same dam as staff and is slower that the greatsword auto (sword auto are 1/2 sec | 1/2sec | 3/4 sec ) ( Greatsword auto are 1/2 sec | 1/2 sec | 1/2 sec ) which doesn't make sense because it is a Greatsword.

Give the healing buff on staff on it's second auto instead of it's 3'rd and increase the healing

These are just some of the buffs i could think of to give to herald in PvP 

What do you guys think? 

Sincerely you Community Herald - Mecto

[Lord.6042]

22 minutes ago, Drax.9134 said:

PvP Buffs to Herald

Buff Enchanted Daggers - Make them Unlockable. 

Add Resistance to one of the dragons' facets.

Increase Burst of Strength damage increase to 10 percent and increase duration to 7 seconds.

Give us 2 of stacks of might on draconic echo or change it back to quickness.

In Herald Minor trait change damage increase per boon from 1% to 2%

Increase Notoriety from 40 might to 50 might.

Increase might stacks on Shared Empowerment  to make it a viable choice.

Reduce energy cost on Riposting Shadows to 35 energy

Take away cd on Phase traversal

Make staff 5 instant cast or make the ramp up time to use skill faster ( since staff 5 does no damage i don't see issue with it being instant)

Cleasing Channel increase from 1 condition removal to 2 condition removal

Increase infused light heal back to 3 seconds

Increase auto damage on Swords

Make it to where there isn't a damage drop on chilling isolation if you hit more than 1 target

Give immobilize on every hit of shackling wave

Either increase the finally hit of Deathstrike or give the first hit more damage

Change brutality or make it boon rip with quickness

Change the Grandmaster in Herald that give you increased strike damage depending on active facets - Change it to a stackable buff after using a consume skill that gives you increase damage up to 15 percent increase damage if you use all facets with a duration of 5 seconds on each stack

Make staff 2 a blast finsiher

Give more damage to autos in sword/sword or increase vuln stack it applies - Currenty gets about same dam as staff and is slower that the greatsword auto (sword auto are 1/2 sec | 1/2sec | 3/4 sec ) ( Greatsword auto are 1/2 sec | 1/2 sec | 1/2 sec ) which doesn't make sense because it is a Greatsword.

Give the healing buff on staff on it's second auto instead of it's 3'rd and increase the healing

These are just some of the buffs i could think of to give to herald in PvP 

What do you guys think? 

Sincerely you Community Herald - Mecto

These sound like great ideas. Hopefully Anet will listen.

[Moose.1963]

23 minutes ago, Drax.9134 said:

PvP Buffs to Herald

Buff Enchanted Daggers - Make them Unlockable. 

Add Resistance to one of the dragons' facets.

Increase Burst of Strength damage increase to 10 percent and increase duration to 7 seconds.

Give us 2 of stacks of might on draconic echo or change it back to quickness.

In Herald Minor trait change damage increase per boon from 1% to 2%

Increase Notoriety from 40 might to 50 might.

Increase might stacks on Shared Empowerment  to make it a viable choice.

Reduce energy cost on Riposting Shadows to 35 energy

Take away cd on Phase traversal

Make staff 5 instant cast or make the ramp up time to use skill faster ( since staff 5 does no damage i don't see issue with it being instant)

Cleasing Channel increase from 1 condition removal to 2 condition removal

Increase infused light heal back to 3 seconds

Increase auto damage on Swords

Make it to where there isn't a damage drop on chilling isolation if you hit more than 1 target

Give immobilize on every hit of shackling wave

Either increase the finally hit of Deathstrike or give the first hit more damage

Change brutality or make it boon rip with quickness

Change the Grandmaster in Herald that give you increased strike damage depending on active facets - Change it to a stackable buff after using a consume skill that gives you increase damage up to 15 percent increase damage if you use all facets with a duration of 5 seconds on each stack

Make staff 2 a blast finsiher

Give more damage to autos in sword/sword or increase vuln stack it applies - Currenty gets about same dam as staff and is slower that the greatsword auto (sword auto are 1/2 sec | 1/2sec | 3/4 sec ) ( Greatsword auto are 1/2 sec | 1/2 sec | 1/2 sec ) which doesn't make sense because it is a Greatsword.

Give the healing buff on staff on it's second auto instead of it's 3'rd and increase the healing

These are just some of the buffs i could think of to give to herald in PvP 

What do you guys think? 

Sincerely you Community Herald - Mecto

There are some thing i'd add but is definitely the right track to buffing Herald. Anet taking a few of these or all would be top tier. Herald is underperforming right now. Great Post .

[ArthurDent.9538]

12 hours ago, Drax.9134 said:

Give more damage to autos in sword/sword or increase vuln stack it applies - Currenty gets about same dam as staff and is slower that the greatsword auto (sword auto are 1/2 sec | 1/2sec | 3/4 sec ) ( Greatsword auto are 1/2 sec | 1/2 sec | 1/2 sec ) which doesn't make sense because it is a Greatsword.

There's a lot to discuss with this post but I'm going to bring this up because tooltips for attack animations are always rounded and sometimes simply wrong which often makes for misleading interpretations like this. According to the wiki, GS auto chain is actually longer to complete taking 2.45s to complete while one hand sword chain is at 2.05 and if you pay attention in game it is pretty obvious that gs is in fact slower.

[Mecto.9274]

11 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

 According to the wiki, GS auto chain is actually longer to complete taking 2.45s to complete while one hand sword chain is at 2.05 and if you pay attention in game it is pretty obvious that gs is in fact slower.

According to the wiki Blade Sworn weren't supposed to get stab every time they dragon triggered but look how long it took them to fix that. If you hover over, your auto attack abilities inside of the game and not look at an outside source then the 3/4 sec for sword and 1/2  sec for great sword is the information it provides. Just because it looks slower doesn't mean anything. Take the biggest Norn's and the smallest asuras for example: they both have the same movement speed but asura's appears to be running faster and Norn tend to look like they are running slower. In conclusion, the information provided in game states that gs autos are faster than swords. Great sword is a bigger weapon therefore appears to take long to attack than sword but in reality, is the same speed if not faster than swords. I know that swords are faster than greatsword it wouldn't make sense if they were but.

Putting that aside the point of the statement was that they should provide accurate information within game, so people don't get confused or misinterpret things. A great example would be Eluding Nullification in the Salvation tree. It says remove one condition for nearby ALLIES at the end of your dodge roll. How is the player who is running the ability considered an ally. It should say at the end of your dodge roll removes a condition for you and nearby allies. 

And All of that has nothing to do with the fact that they still have to buff Revenant in PvP and your point was that they need to provide accurate information. I am just giving the players the information that I have in game.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Drax.9134
Needed to add

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

On 5/29/2023 at 8:15 AM, Drax.9134 said:

PvP Buffs to Herald

Buff Enchanted Daggers - Make them Unlockable. 

Add Resistance to one of the dragons' facets.

Increase Burst of Strength damage increase to 10 percent and increase duration to 7 seconds.

Give us 2 of stacks of might on draconic echo or change it back to quickness.

In Herald Minor trait change damage increase per boon from 1% to 2%

Increase Notoriety from 40 might to 50 might.

Increase might stacks on Shared Empowerment  to make it a viable choice.

Reduce energy cost on Riposting Shadows to 35 energy

Take away cd on Phase traversal

Make staff 5 instant cast or make the ramp up time to use skill faster ( since staff 5 does no damage i don't see issue with it being instant)

Cleasing Channel increase from 1 condition removal to 2 condition removal

Increase infused light heal back to 3 seconds

Increase auto damage on Swords

Make it to where there isn't a damage drop on chilling isolation if you hit more than 1 target

Give immobilize on every hit of shackling wave

Either increase the finally hit of Deathstrike or give the first hit more damage

Change brutality or make it boon rip with quickness

Change the Grandmaster in Herald that give you increased strike damage depending on active facets - Change it to a stackable buff after using a consume skill that gives you increase damage up to 15 percent increase damage if you use all facets with a duration of 5 seconds on each stack

Make staff 2 a blast finsiher

Give more damage to autos in sword/sword or increase vuln stack it applies - Currenty gets about same dam as staff and is slower that the greatsword auto (sword auto are 1/2 sec | 1/2sec | 3/4 sec ) ( Greatsword auto are 1/2 sec | 1/2 sec | 1/2 sec ) which doesn't make sense because it is a Greatsword.

Give the healing buff on staff on it's second auto instead of it's 3'rd and increase the healing

These are just some of the buffs i could think of to give to herald in PvP 

What do you guys think? 

Sincerely you Community Herald - Mecto

so essentially the suggestion is just to revert 90% of the nerfs since Heart of Thorns XD

Herald was insane back then, we don't need it to be oppressive the way it used to be again and most of these changes would put it right back to being a meta team staple

Edited June 1, 2023 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[draxynnic.3719]

On 5/31/2023 at 1:03 AM, Drax.9134 said:

According to the wiki Blade Sworn weren't supposed to get stab every time they dragon triggered but look how long it took them to fix that. If you hover over, your auto attack abilities inside of the game and not look at an outside source then the 3/4 sec for sword and 1/2  sec for great sword is the information it provides. Just because it looks slower doesn't mean anything. Take the biggest Norn's and the smallest asuras for example: they both have the same movement speed but asura's appears to be running faster and Norn tend to look like they are running slower. In conclusion, the information provided in game states that gs autos are faster than swords. Great sword is a bigger weapon therefore appears to take long to attack than sword but in reality, is the same speed if not faster than swords. I know that swords are faster than greatsword it wouldn't make sense if they were but.

Putting that aside the point of the statement was that they should provide accurate information within game, so people don't get confused or misinterpret things. A great example would be Eluding Nullification in the Salvation tree. It says remove one condition for nearby ALLIES at the end of your dodge roll. How is the player who is running the ability considered an ally. It should say at the end of your dodge roll removes a condition for you and nearby allies. 

And All of that has nothing to do with the fact that they still have to buff Revenant in PvP and your point was that they need to provide accurate information. I am just giving the players the information that I have in game.

The tooltips don't take into account aftercast. They probably should, but that's where a large part of the difference between how long it looks like it takes the greatsword auto chain to complete compared to the sword auto chain, and how long it actually takes. Sword autos usually do their damage toward the end of the animation, so they have longer activation times but very little aftercast, while greatsword autos usually do their damage toward the middle of the animation and then have to complete the animation before you proceed to another skill (unless you use an animation cancel such as weapon stowing, but I'm not sure if that works with auto chains).

Such differences between how long it takes a chain to complete if you add up the tooltip numbers and how long they actually take have been in the game since launch, and aftercast is something that ArenaNet has put in deliberately and occasionally modifies for balance and QoL reasons. It is absolutely not a bug like the bladesworn thing, but intended behaviour. Intended behaviour that should perhaps be better signalled to players who don't think to check the wiki to find out how long an auto chain actually takes to complete before comparing auto chains, but intended behaviour nonetheless.

Edited June 1, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

so essentially the suggestion is just to revert 90% of the nerfs since Heart of Thorns XD

Herald was insane back then, we don't need it to be oppressive the way it used to be again and most of these changes would put it right back to being a meta team staple

It may have been oppressive back then.

But do you remember what else was back then? Substantially less powercreep across most professions.

I think the Herald from back then will fit right in with the current game.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Fueki.4753