Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[Flapjackson.1596]

My guess is either a free legendary relic or a significant push along the path to getting one. I think the relic change will be good for the rune system, but hopefully it doesn’t come at a cost of a major QoL decrease for those who currently have legendary runes. If people have to wait a significant time to get back to their current level of QoL, or if legendary relics aren’t even on the table for this expansion, then the relic system would be in some ways a decrease in the overall experience for players who spent their gold on legendary runes.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

2 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

We know that the legendary rune compensation is of great interest to you, and we'll be sharing more of our plans about that in the blog post. While that's still coming, I want to clarify a bit about my note on compensation. This will not be an unrelated item; it’s going to be part of the relics system. We’ll have more details in that upcoming blog post.

Finally, I want to thank you all for continuing to have this conversation and share your feedback with us. It’s been helpful and we all appreciate it.

Anything less than a full conversion of my current 7 legendary runes into the new legendary runes PLUS a legendary relic would be spitting in my face. That would be functionally equal to what I have now - what I grinded for in the first place.

This is just like taking the functionality of build swapping away from arcdps to sell us a vastly inferior product. Except this time we grinded for it ourselves first.

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hello everyone, we have been following this conversation and continuing to read your feedback since my last post, and I'm here to give you another quick update. Like other major elements of the expansion, we’re planning on providing more information on relics before launch. For relics specifically, we’re working to get that blog ready for publish on July 18—and because I know you’re wondering, that timeline is so we can write it, review it for accuracy, edit it, and translate it into all supported languages.

We know that the legendary rune compensation is of great interest to you, and we'll be sharing more of our plans about that in the blog post. While that's still coming, I want to clarify a bit about my note on compensation. This will not be an unrelated item; it’s going to be part of the relics system. We’ll have more details in that upcoming blog post.

Finally, I want to thank you all for continuing to have this conversation and share your feedback with us. It’s been helpful and we all appreciate it.

It would also be nice to hear some acknowledgment for the concerns of non-legendary owners who are also about to lose a significant piece of every build on every character.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Geralt.7519 said:

It's less than 2 weeks, it's fine, you can't expect them to rush it, they also need to translate it to other languages.

2 weeks is for the whole blog. I sincerely doubt that translating a simple answer to simple question into several languages would take anywhere close to that long. Delaying that answer for 2 weeks does not fill me with confidence.

Also, the answer about "compensation" being designed as "part of the system" seems quite dubious to me considering the previous post strongly suggested they haven't even thought about the legendary issue at all and the question about it caught them by surprise.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Farming Flats.5370]

I want full fonctionality and nothing else , no grind , no tasks, no collections ... nothing.

I already have it , you can't take it away.  I can choose the bonus I want today , I expect the same thing in the future.

No downgrade .  Period.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Farming Flats.5370

[Mike.7983]

Question is @Rubi Bayer.8493.  For people with 6 legendary runes, are we losing out our benefit and have to fork out more gold for something we are currently using?

[Flapjackson.1596]

@Rubi Bayer.8493 Tangential to the conversation of compensation, but I hope the blog post discussing the changes to the rune system will address the loss of “uniqueness” that runes have if the set bonuses become relics. Sigils and relics will offer unique bonuses that let them stand out. Gear, runes, and infusions will all be incredibly similar in their function for the average player (basic stat increases). This redundancy should be addressed.

Runes could double down on more unique effects like buffing durations of specific boons or specific conditions. (Ex. Rune of the firebrand, rune of the krait)

Infusions are a complicated topic because AR has hardly been touched since its inception and it’s controversial for being a generic wall that also limits cosmetic infusions. High time for an overhaul?

 

[VictorLeal.4102]

I love this communication... "We already have a answer for this simple question but wait for 2 weeks :D"

Hey ArenaNet you can answer here and give more details in the blog post, is it so difficult?

Edited July 8, 2023 by VictorLeal.4102

[troy.3257]

What a bunch of double talk reply. Sounds like something a politician would answer with.

Edited July 8, 2023 by troy.3257

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, VictorLeal.4102 said:

I love this communication... "We already have a answer for this simple question but wait for 2 weeks :D"

Hey ArenaNet you can answer here and give more details in the blog post, is it so difficult?

I very much doubt they had/have a solid answer. I believe that it is much more likely that they are scrambling to come up with an answer while also trying to put the final touches on the expac.

Personally, I have put all legendary crafting on hold and am not preordering the expac. Depending on how relics are handled I may not buy SotO. I do not consider $25 to be excessive for a couple of maps and the following updates....but I consider a single penny to be excessive for a company that disrespects my time and money.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[troy.3257]

Yeah Im only logging into do my three dailys as of now. Im not spending another penny on GW2 till we get a answer on this issue. I have started playing another MMO In case I decide to leave GW2 over this clusterfook of a idea.  Hate to throw away 8 years of playing GW2 but you got to draw the line somewhere.

The whole point of GW2's philosophy is that your gear doesn't get invalidated by expansions. Thats the point . Does not matter if it makes it better or not. If they want to make it as a option I have no problem with that. I spent  over a year crafting all 7 runes I should be able to use all 7 runes if I want too. Dont come up out of the blue and say ...oh yeah 2 of your leggies is useless now ....sorry. Please buy  our next expansion.

Edited July 8, 2023 by troy.3257

[HotDelirium.7984]

If it's anything less than a legendary relic, the kids will riot.

[HotDelirium.7984]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I very much doubt they had/have a solid answer. I believe that it is much more likely that they are scrambling to come up with an answer while also trying to put the final touches on the expac.

Personally, I have put all legendary crafting on hold and am not preordering the expac. Depending on how relics are handled I may not buy SotO. I do not consider $25 to be excessive for a couple of maps and the following updates....but I consider a single penny to be excessive for a company that disrespects my time and money.

My personal take is they already created the new rune and relic system including legendary relics (for those who have created 7 leg runes) but because there was so much backlash and vitriol they are scrambling to reassure people that an explanation is coming and they assuage tension with "compensation" talk but that's a misnomer because they didn't originally make a mistake which necessitates compensating players. I think they need to be a bit more aware of perception in a timely manner. Legendary relic talk SHOULD have been in the blog post that talks about relics.

[Geralt.7519]

1 hour ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

My personal take is they already created the new rune and relic system including legendary relics (for those who have created 7 leg runes) but because there was so much backlash and vitriol they are scrambling to reassure people that an explanation is coming and they assuage tension with "compensation" talk but that's a misnomer because they didn't originally make a mistake which necessitates compensating players. I think they need to be a bit more aware of perception in a timely manner. Legendary relic talk SHOULD have been in the blog post that talks about relics.

I truly hope you're right and this is just a case of very poor communication, tho it seems weird to me to not announce a legendary, even something as simple as "more info on legendary in next blog post" would have been enough to limit people reactions IMO.

I mean, I've been playing GW2 on and off since launch and this is the first time in 10 years I'm so pissed that I felt the need to make my voice heard on the official forums (I have all 7 runes).

 

[Geralt.7519]

7 hours ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

My guess is either a free legendary relic or a significant push along the path to getting one.

A free relic for leg crafters is fine in any case, but I believe that if they don't make it a reward for crafting a set of runes, runes won't be worth crafting anymore for anyone, unless they significantly reduce the requirements, because who in the world would spend 2300 gold and suffer the ugly provisioner tokens grind for leg runes when regular ones won't need changing anymore as much as they do now for they won't hold the set bonus anymore, and there won't be many different types anymore because the difference is in the bonus.

 

7 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It would also be nice to hear some acknowledgment for the concerns of non-legendary owners who are also about to lose a significant piece of every build on every character.

This is a problem too, together with the fact this is the 2nd xpac in a row they're adding a new gear grind (vertical progression).

[Tulki.1458]

Hrm, I'm not really expecting a good answer once the blog comes out. If existing owners of legendary runes weren't losing functionality, the answer would be very simple. That it's seemingly not simple doesn't inspire confidence.

I'm looking forward to the blog post, but I'm going to avoid pre-ordering SOTO until I see what it says. And that's really a first for expansions in this game for me. I don't like the precedent this might set as far as the studio being okay with invalidating player progression (and doing it on a high-cost legendary unlock of all things). I said it before, but going back on that promise in GW2 signals loud and clear to me that the team has lost the plot and doesn't understand where its game came from any more. Mishandling GW2 is the thing that'll wean me off onto something else.

Where is the game director and why isn't he guarding against stuff like this?

Edited July 8, 2023 by Tulki.1458

[Geralt.7519]

21 minutes ago, Tulki.1458 said:

I'm going to avoid pre-ordering SOTO until I see what it says.

Of course, that's what I'm doing too, I'm just waiting to read what they have to say before I jump to conclusions tho, there's no point in speculating anymore IMO.

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

My personal take is they already created the new rune and relic system including legendary relics (for those who have created 7 leg runes) but because there was so much backlash and vitriol they are scrambling to reassure people that an explanation is coming and they assuage tension with "compensation" talk but that's a misnomer because they didn't originally make a mistake which necessitates compensating players. I think they need to be a bit more aware of perception in a timely manner. Legendary relic talk SHOULD have been in the blog post that talks about relics.

I sincerely doubt this is the case. If it was, all they had to do was to say that they have already considered this angle, and that legendary owners need not worry. Had they said this instead of first Ruby post, the response would have been completely different.

Problem is, they could have said that only if they 've really had considered it already, and if legendary owners truly have nothing to worry about. Instead, they went with "Uh, oh... we'll get back to you later" response, which does not instill any amount of confidence in me.

[Pifil.5193]

If they had planned to give us a Legendary Relic then that would have either been mentioned in the first blog post or Rubi could have simply put all of this to rest with a single sentence in her first post instead of talking about them having to come up with a plan to "compensate" us.

The fact that they've deferred telling us what that compensation is until a blog post 10 days from now doesn't sit well with me. I don't think they're planning on a Legendary Relic, Relics are going to become rewards from achievements, from instanced content, reward tracks and they'll be a carrot dangled for future expansions. Having a Legendary Relic defeats that as a Legendary has always provided access to stats and runes the moment they're added to the game. They're hoping that the further details released on the blog will somehow make it all go away.

Yeah.

Please tell us how we can spend time and energy undoing what you've just done to us! That'll go down well.

I pre ordered as soon as I could, same as the previous expansions, to support the game I love. This is the first time I'm regretting that and it's not a mistake I'm going to repeat.

[Wolfshade.9251]

6 hours ago, troy.3257 said:

Yeah Im only logging into do my three dailys as of now. Im not spending another penny on GW2 till we get a answer on this issue. I have started playing another MMO In case I decide to leave GW2 over this clusterfook of a idea.  Hate to throw away 8 years of playing GW2 but you got to draw the line somewhere.

The whole point of GW2's philosophy is that your gear doesn't get invalidated by expansions. Thats the point . Does not matter if it makes it better or not. If they want to make it as a option I have no problem with that. I spent  over a year crafting all 7 runes I should be able to use all 7 runes if I want too. Dont come up out of the blue and say ...oh yeah 2 of your leggies is useless now ....sorry. Please buy  our next expansion.

I've done the same thing, moved onto another MMO though I still log in once a week for the raid static. I just no longer care anymore, so I'm not planning to purchase any further expansions. If that invalidates my builds, makes me unable to complete endgame PVE and ends my perfect 2-year raiding streak, then so be it.

[Mungrul.9358]

12 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Is that really the right word here, Rubi?

That's the really distressing thing. Rubi's marketing; it's exactly the word she means to say.

It may on initial glance look like a nothing answer, but in reality it reveals a refusal to be moved.

This is not looking good at all. My money is still on them having designed an entire new means of monetisation around Relics, and management are not going to drop it now, no matter how hard the community complains.

That it may break the core contract between ANet and the owners of Legendaries is of no interest to them. Consequences be damned, they want that sweet short-term return on a decade old game.

 

But, to play devil's advocate, we really don't know how Relics will work, and all is speculation until the aforementioned blog post.

 

Even so, it feels bad to me.

[Blood.7254]

Legendary runes are a quality of life upgrade. Once you have a full set of runes, sigils, armor, trinkets and weapons - the point is you never have to grind for ascended ones. You just change your stats and you're done.

Whatever the compensation will be it has to follow along the same lines. If there are no legendary relics or an equivalent solution, then it's a problem imo.

[HeroineDark.6287]

14 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hello everyone, we have been following this conversation and continuing to read your feedback since my last post, and I'm here to give you another quick update. Like other major elements of the expansion, we’re planning on providing more information on relics before launch. For relics specifically, we’re working to get that blog ready for publish on July 18—and because I know you’re wondering, that timeline is so we can write it, review it for accuracy, edit it, and translate it into all supported languages.

We know that the legendary rune compensation is of great interest to you, and we'll be sharing more of our plans about that in the blog post. While that's still coming, I want to clarify a bit about my note on compensation. This will not be an unrelated item; it’s going to be part of the relics system. We’ll have more details in that upcoming blog post.

Finally, I want to thank you all for continuing to have this conversation and share your feedback with us. It’s been helpful and we all appreciate it.

Even though this post doesn't commit to anything solid, it keeps the community informed that there is movement towards a solution and these small "hey we're working on it and will share details soon" messages go a very long ways in the grand scheme of communication. Thank you for working so hard and I'm excited beyond words for this xpac. 

[Anri.6734]

Like many others here have said, I primarily crafted the full set of legendary runes because of the 6th effect. If there's any loss of functionality, I'm out. 

[Kulvar.1239]

14 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

If so it doesn't fill me with confidence that anything like a Legendary Relic is in the works.

It could be that relics do not work like runes. If they're freely swappable account-wide unlocks, there would be no need for a legendary relic.

Unlikely, but possible.