Concerned about the future

[Mukizo.1269]

I’m concerned about GW2’s future and have been since EoD. Anet have failed to deliver for a long time now especially regarding the recent living world episode and the new fractal.

The track record does not look great and I highly suspect the new mini “expac” will follow this pattern. Mark my words most of these new features will be useless and abandoned, rifts “cough”.

It is not my intention to hate or discredit without reason but what exactly do the players want and what exactly is Anet’s long term goal? To barely sustain GW2 until their new project is finished? To write off a few scrapped and recycled ideas into a half backed living world season and call it a day?

There is unfortunately a lot of new systems and changes introduced taking up the space of any new and meaningful content that the player can actually “play”.

[Batalix.2873]

Yet another post, and I am here to support it.

Honestly if the new weapons we were getting actually felt like they added to the professions and weren't pretending focus/shield/warhorn never existed, I might have excused all of the really questionable repackaged elements. At least I would have had one thing I would actually engage with.

As it stands, I don't even have the draw of a single new core weapon that I ever wanted for this game. Maybe Rev scepter, but even that is just half of the full weaponset it deserves.

Try again next year, ANet. Give me WH Guardian, Focus Revenant, Focus Ranger, Rifle Ele, Shortbow Mesmer, Shield Necro. Then I might buy the next expac. But I won't buy this empty, flavorless spectacle full of dumb, off-brand weapons. While you're at it, make the EoD weapons/traits more distinct than the recycled garbage you gave us.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Markus.6415]

48 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Yet another post, and I am here to support it.

Honestly if the new weapons we were getting actually felt like they added to the professions and weren't pretending focus/shield/warhorn never existed, I might have excused all of the really questionable repackaged elements. At least I would have had one thing I would actually engage with.

As it stands, I don't even have the draw of a single new core weapon that I ever wanted for this game. Maybe Rev scepter, but even that is just half of the full weaponset it deserves.

Try again next year, ANet. Give me WH Guardian, Focus Revenant, Focus Ranger, Rifle Ele, Shortbow Mesmer, Shield Necro. Then I might buy the next expac. But I won't buy this empty, flavorless spectacle full of dumb, off-brand weapons. While you're at it, make the EoD weapons/traits more distinct than the recycled garbage you gave us.

Remember, we don't even get those new weapons with the release of the expac. It's coming later. We get the weaponmaster training.

[vares.8457]

59 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Give me WH Guardian, Focus Revenant, Focus Ranger, Rifle Ele, Shortbow Mesmer, Shield Necro.

No thanks. I prefer the choices we get over yours. 

[Batalix.2873]

16 minutes ago, Markus.6415 said:

Remember, we don't even get those new weapons with the release of the expac. It's coming later. We get the weaponmaster training.

Which I also don't really care for. Most of those will fall on either side of a very big divide: totally useless, or BiS.

6 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

No thanks. I prefer the choices we get over yours. 

I get the impression you would have agreed with whatever the devs had chosen. An untestable hypothesis, but I find it really hard to believe no one has any criticisms about these very questionable weapon choices.

[vares.8457]

Just now, Batalix.2873 said:

 

I get the impression you would have agreed with whatever the devs had chosen. An untestable hypothesis, but I find it really hard to believe no one has any criticisms about these very questionable weapon choices.

No, your ideas just sound bad and boring. 

[Ashantara.8731]

On 7/3/2023 at 9:05 AM, Mukizo.1269 said:

I’m concerned about GW2’s future and have been since EoD. Anet have failed to deliver for a long time now especially regarding the recent living world episode and the new fractal.

What are you talking about?  Silent Surf is fantastic!

The second half of the IBS was a disappointment, EoD presented us with (mostly) hastily put together maps, the Gyala Delve release was too short and plain boring, ... but the upcoming expansion sounds very promising and some of the new features exciting.

In any case, these doom & gloom threads certainly don't help, and the more of them the worse.
 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Balsa.3951]

4 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

No thanks. I prefer the choices we get over yours. 

thats a useless discussion any way. no one maybe not even anet knows how each weapon will function.

in a game where a sword can be ranged and a pistol is melee weapons are no indicator of their useage 

[Gazrul.3086]

It's too early to tell. Personally, I think the new expansion is looking good so far, at least the stuff we were shown. I look forward to the official streams and showcases. 🙂

[mercury ranique.2170]

To be honest, the release cadance has been a challenge ever since launch and is not something from the last few years.

At launch, no expansions where announced. DLC would be released through living world stories. Both the halloween event as the first southsun event where a big failure. It both started with a one time event (you had to be in Lion's Arch) and the city was so overpacked 99% of the people crashed at the start of the event and missed it at all.

After that they changed tactics. It would be repeatable and replayable content available for 1 or 2 months only. This is what we now know as living world season one. It was pretty solid content (as you can now see with the re-release), but it was not replayable at the time.

This lead to a lot of criticism  as people want to be able to replay the story. The other side however is the advantage in development. With releases only active for a short time, bug fixes and polishing is much less needed. 

So in season 2 they past onto a new system with living world episodes followed by expansions. This worked pretty well, but the demand on quality ment they had to focus a lot on quality.

After PoF they changed it further again. First trying again without expansions and when we refused to accept it now they try again without living world but expansions in parts.

You have to understand that Arenanet is a commercial company. Releasing and selling new content is their core business. So the way such new content is released is very important. Their search for a good way to do this has always made me concerned, so it is nothing new. But it is also far from a "All panic!! the game is dying!!" mode.

Arenanet has always been one of the more innovative studio's out there and I always praised them for this, but when it comes to the release schedule, I've also seen that the general public is not up for experiments.

I am not concerned about the future. GW2 has reasonable steady sales figures, with obvious pikes around EoD release and steam release, but inbetween you see a solid income as well. Herin lies the main issues however. cash items sold in game are a good way of revenue, but the true revenue is from game and expansion sales. Arenanet has always been loyal to the loyal active playerbase, but this is diminishing. It is logic as there is no revenue to be gained there. There is more profit in players who stay with us a few years and then move along.

Do I think they have found the perfect way to release DLC's? No, it is still a struggle and they try to find a balance between optimizing income and supporting the most loyal part of the playerbase.

But I also doubt they will ever find it. The fact that it is and has been a struggle for a long time and yet the sales figures are good, is promisin. The game can handle the struggle and we'll see what the future beholds.

[mandala.8507]

On 7/3/2023 at 3:05 AM, Mukizo.1269 said:

I’m concerned about GW2’s future and have been since EoD. Anet have failed to deliver for a long time now especially regarding the recent living world episode and the new fractal.

The track record does not look great and I highly suspect the new mini “expac” will follow this pattern. Mark my words most of these new features will be useless and abandoned, rifts “cough”.

It is not my intention to hate or discredit without reason but what exactly do the players want and what exactly is Anet’s long term goal? To barely sustain GW2 until their new project is finished? To write off a few scrapped and recycled ideas into a half backed living world season and call it a day?

There is unfortunately a lot of new systems and changes introduced taking up the space of any new and meaningful content that the player can actually “play”.

Alright Arenanet, be honest: Who let the Ascalon Settlement Doomsayer start making forum posts?

[Randulf.7614]

I’ll judge them on what they deliver.
 

EoD was underwhelming, although I loved the idea behind the setting and tech stuff. Seeing Tyria evolve technologically over ten years has been something I’ve enjoyed seeing unfold. There’s always a place for unchanging fantasy settings, but GW2 was never it. Whilst the content and story were poor, this side of their world building was excellent. Plus the turtle, skiffs and fishing are things I thoroughly enjoy.

Gyala and story was a train wreck

Silent Surf was OK, but unremarkable. As pretty as the lead in was, I didn’t enjoy the parachuting mechanics. Boss was good, but a tad overtuned for t1. It was certainly better than some recent fractals even if not a patch on the originals. It showed some learning lessons in design which was the key takeaway

The balance patch seems to show a lack of cohesion with the community. It doesn’t fully affect me since most of the changes aren’t affecting open world, but it’s clear they are just homogenising everything and focusing on two buffs, whilst losing the rich identities they set up. This feels a rather destructive approach.

SoTo is too early to call. I’m not happy with the making systems redundant with relics and I’ll closely watch the rewards system, but more content in a diff setting could be great fun. I just hope the focus on skyscale and amalgamated terrain doesn’t fall back into the trap of inorganic map design, but it’s impossible to judge too much this early. I’m not hyped, but I’ll preorder before release.

Am I worried? Not really, but I’ve lowered my expectation over the last couple of years. The game is past it’s peak just by natural ageing and will never get the same investment it once had, but if they stay in tune with what made the game great and don’t reinvent the wheel, they can continue to do great things with less. 

[Mukizo.1269]

13 hours ago, mercury ranique.2170 said:

To be honest, the release cadance has been a challenge ever since launch and is not something from the last few years.

At launch, no expansions where announced. DLC would be released through living world stories. Both the halloween event as the first southsun event where a big failure. It both started with a one time event (you had to be in Lion's Arch) and the city was so overpacked 99% of the people crashed at the start of the event and missed it at all.

After that they changed tactics. It would be repeatable and replayable content available for 1 or 2 months only. This is what we now know as living world season one. It was pretty solid content (as you can now see with the re-release), but it was not replayable at the time.

This lead to a lot of criticism  as people want to be able to replay the story. The other side however is the advantage in development. With releases only active for a short time, bug fixes and polishing is much less needed. 

So in season 2 they past onto a new system with living world episodes followed by expansions. This worked pretty well, but the demand on quality ment they had to focus a lot on quality.

After PoF they changed it further again. First trying again without expansions and when we refused to accept it now they try again without living world but expansions in parts.

You have to understand that Arenanet is a commercial company. Releasing and selling new content is their core business. So the way such new content is released is very important. Their search for a good way to do this has always made me concerned, so it is nothing new. But it is also far from a "All panic!! the game is dying!!" mode.

Arenanet has always been one of the more innovative studio's out there and I always praised them for this, but when it comes to the release schedule, I've also seen that the general public is not up for experiments.

I am not concerned about the future. GW2 has reasonable steady sales figures, with obvious pikes around EoD release and steam release, but inbetween you see a solid income as well. Herin lies the main issues however. cash items sold in game are a good way of revenue, but the true revenue is from game and expansion sales. Arenanet has always been loyal to the loyal active playerbase, but this is diminishing. It is logic as there is no revenue to be gained there. There is more profit in players who stay with us a few years and then move along.

Do I think they have found the perfect way to release DLC's? No, it is still a struggle and they try to find a balance between optimizing income and supporting the most loyal part of the playerbase.

But I also doubt they will ever find it. The fact that it is and has been a struggle for a long time and yet the sales figures are good, is promisin. The game can handle the struggle and we'll see what the future beholds.

Great post and insight, I like that you tried to follow the pattern from the start. It's just a shame they won't learn. Creating and abandoning systems as it's their passion, must be exhausting and extremely wasteful in resources. I feel like GW2 lacks a clear identity and direction, it's sort of all over the place. Might have been from the start as you pointed out, at least about the way of releasing content which could be a reflection of several issues. 

Let us see how it folds out, I am after all excited since being concerned means you care.

[Mukizo.1269]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Silent Surf was OK, but unremarkable. As pretty as the lead in was, I didn’t enjoy the parachuting mechanics. Boss was good, but a tad overtuned for t1. It was certainly better than some recent fractals even if not a patch on the originals. It showed some learning lessons in design which was the key takeaway

Silent surf was terrible and the worst thing I've played in a while. It feels like a low quality effort meta event. Both TP and boss, terrible.

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

On 7/3/2023 at 9:05 AM, Mukizo.1269 said:

There is unfortunately a lot of new systems and changes introduced taking up the space of any new and meaningful content that the player can actually “play”.

It's basically a form of shrinkflation. Just look at the wiki where it is made clear that the new expansion(s) won't come with all the great little conveniences that are from previous expansions like a free Revenant, a free Raptor or free Glider. It's just natural that with increasing cost of production people will get used to the fact that they have to pay more for less. 

It's like the 1.5 liter Coca-Cola bottles that nowadays come in 1.25 liter size and cost an Euro instead of 89 cents.

If AreneNet are really smart, they will most likely unbundle HoT from PoF again and sell those expansions separate for their full prices, to ensure that any new player can actually pick and chose what kind of game experience they will receive. Always remember that ANet is an NCsoft subsidiary where only whales get the full experience. 

[Batalix.2873]

11 minutes ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

It's basically a form of shrinkflation. Just look at the wiki where it is made clear that the new expansion(s) won't come with all the great little conveniences that are from previous expansions like a free Revenant, a free Raptor or free Glider. It's just natural that with increasing cost of production people will get used to the fact that they have to pay more for less. 

It's like the 1.5 liter Coca-Cola bottles that nowadays come in 1.25 liter size and cost an Euro instead of 89 cents.

If AreneNet are really smart, they will most likely unbundle HoT from PoF again and sell those expansions separate for their full prices, to ensure that any new player can actually pick and chose what kind of game experience they will receive. Always remember that ANet is an NCsoft subsidiary where only whales get the full experience. 

Given how much Skyscale and open world legendaries skip past HoT/PoF's primary content (gliding, mounts, raids), a lot of those expacs will be more for story/maps/skins than actual features. Purely flavor/aesthetic experiences.

Imo it would make just as much sense to just bundle the full dragon cycle saga, since so much of it is obviated outside of the especs (which would be easier handled in future content if handled as a full set).

But I suppose they could go the other direction and decouple everything, but imo since a lot of the mechanical perks are obviated everything should be at a reduced price.

[Vilin.8056]

If you're coming from a point of view of a mainstream gamer, yes the game is pretty much done. With the majority of contents abandoned or trivialized, there simply isn't much left to play for the sake of playing.

However, the demographic of players are also changing. Persisting players are generally much older than what it once was in 201x. Seeing a wave of players beyong age 50+ becoming the driving force, the game also shift focus from combat and exploration onto second life elements.

Plainly put, these players simply logging onto their account to live their virtual life. A second chance to live an alternative social life. Earn daily, weekly and monthly virtual wages, so they can craft or purchase virtual leisures to gain a sense of a lifetime achievement. Elements of exploration, combat and team work are generally a second thought.

Therefore, quantity over takes quality. More meta events means more time tables to cumculate into a bigger daily wage. Many don't even care what the boss look like, and any forms of added innovations are simply needless complexities that will be argued politically instead of mechanically.

All in all, what we are seeing is just a result of what a lot of people have been arguing for - A monetization of a second life with new grinding elements and various cosmetics but also simplified exploration and dumbed down combat. For those don't like where things are heading, least we had 10 good years.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Vilin.8056

[Kozumi.5816]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:28 PM, Randulf.7614 said:

EoD was underwhelming,

EoD would have been fine if they didn't immediately abandon the game after a month and put it into a 1 year content drought via LS1...AGAIN.

LS one was the worst thing to happen to this game and they did it TWICE? Wow...

[Knighthonor.4061]

On 7/3/2023 at 3:05 AM, Mukizo.1269 said:

I’m concerned about GW2’s future and have been since EoD. Anet have failed to deliver for a long time now especially regarding the recent living world episode and the new fractal.

The track record does not look great and I highly suspect the new mini “expac” will follow this pattern. Mark my words most of these new features will be useless and abandoned, rifts “cough”.

It is not my intention to hate or discredit without reason but what exactly do the players want and what exactly is Anet’s long term goal? To barely sustain GW2 until their new project is finished? To write off a few scrapped and recycled ideas into a half backed living world season and call it a day?

There is unfortunately a lot of new systems and changes introduced taking up the space of any new and meaningful content that the player can actually “play”.

I believe Rifts will add more replay value to core maps if done the right way like a better version of Rift MMO's Meta Rifts. But if done lazy, it would be a problem.      

       

Also hopefully this mini expansion set up the next big expansion for more fun stuff.

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

I believe Rifts will add more replay value to core maps if done the right way like a better version of Rift MMO's Meta Rifts. But if done lazy, it would be a problem.      

       

Also hopefully this mini expansion set up the next big expansion for more fun stuff.

I wonder if rift will be like the rift stalker event portals around the maps.

[Mukizo.1269]

Rifts will probably be: press F, kill a few reused mobs, close the portal, get a loot bag. Of course there will be masteries tied to innovating how you press F. 

[Poormany.4507]

16 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

I wonder if rift will be like the rift stalker event portals around the maps.

I don't really think the rift events will add much tbh, especially in the long term. Most likely they'll just be similar to the Awakened Portals or Brand Rifts that barely anyone does after the first few months or so.

[idpersona.3810]

13 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

I don't really think the rift events will add much tbh, especially in the long term. Most likely they'll just be similar to the Awakened Portals or Brand Rifts that barely anyone does after the first few months or so.

I hope that's not the case. If they get the scaling right (for difficulty and rewards) I think it could add a lot. Make them worthwhile and players will look out for them.

[GetFoxxed.9478]

On 7/5/2023 at 9:08 PM, Batalix.2873 said:

and weren't pretending focus/shield/warhorn never existed

I wish that was the case. These weapons (maybe except shield) have little to none class fantasy and fun to them.

[TheDetective.8172]

On 7/7/2023 at 10:00 PM, Knighthonor.4061 said:

I believe Rifts will add more replay value to core maps if done the right way like a better version of Rift MMO's Meta Rifts. But if done lazy, it would be a problem.      

       

Also hopefully this mini expansion set up the next big expansion for more fun stuff.

There are no more “big” expansions.