AFK wallrunners, what's the solution?

[Defias.1892]

Every time I join EBG, there's at least 5-6 people openly wallrunning into structures to save their spot. Most of the time, this isn't a big issue, but EBG constantly gets queued during major events and it really hurts when we are missing half the team but we still have a queue of 30+ players.  Is there anything that can be done about this and why is the anti-AFK system so easily tricked by one autorun button?

[Curennos.9307]

Is there any other use for auto-run in a PVP setting? So far I've found the maps small enough and terrain varied enough that I can only use auto run for very short stretches and only if I'm feeling extremely lazy and want to keep up with commander while typing in a chat program. Just disable auto run in wvw, unless there's some extremely valid/useful reason to keep it around.

[subversiontwo.7501]

1. A longer timer until you get thrown off a map, so you can take a dump, answer the door/phone or prep a snack without stress
2. A way to cash out remaining ticks of participation at the expense of not being able to rebuild participation for as many ticks
3. A multi-instance system that does away with the queues altogether and solves a number of other issues / creates new ways to play at the same time

What's stopping us? A developer that doesn't care about WvW.

/ Thread

Edited October 15, 2023 by subversiontwo.7501

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

if you don't kill or cap anything in 5 minutes, you get the boot.

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Curennos.9307 said:

Is there any other use for auto-run in a PVP setting? So far I've found the maps small enough and terrain varied enough that I can only use auto run for very short stretches and only if I'm feeling extremely lazy and want to keep up with commander while typing in a chat program. Just disable auto run in wvw, unless there's some extremely valid/useful reason to keep it around.

I don't auto-run walls but I do auto-run. Its mostly used to clear bags while travelling between A and B and when checking the map for activity to determine if we need to redirect.

Oh and then there is reason three, to provide humor to my guildmates while I ride off ledges while trying to do the first two. I am from the same old school as Luranni here and all you can do is go "Weeeeeeeee!" and take it in voice comms as you go splat lol.

[Andy.5981]

Simply write some code that says you cannot autorun within the home sector or a keep/castle that your side owns. It would stop some. Also if GM's were more active in this game (not necessarily visible) but visited a few maps every so often and enforced a few rules, it might sort a few of these people out.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Andy.5981

[Galmac.4680]

Autorun is ok, but if you don't move from your location, then the big boot could come.

[Boh.4568]

20 minutes ago, Galmac.4680 said:

Autorun is ok, but if you don't move from your location, then the big boot could come.

This. Autorun contains the word "run", but if you are not running anywhere it's so easy to detect and flag you as inactive. Just check the player's coordinates, regardless of what they are doing (using skills, autorunning, chetting, etc) and if they don't change in 10 minutes trigger the warning(s) and then kick the player out.

"but even if I have been immobile for 10 minutes I was using skills to defend a wall/treb a castle/ERP in map chat with my degenerate friends!"

The warning themselves are visually invasive, so if the player truly isn't AFK he has a whole minute to just press any direction once (not against a wall) to reset the timer.

"but that's just the way I enjoy playing WvW, if I want to stay in the same spot for hours I don't want to be discriminated!"

Again, just press "w" once avery 10/15 minutes. Not a terrible inconvenience. Anyway staying in the same exact position for that long is suspicious, whatever mental gymnastics you use to justify your sedentary playstile.

"but what if I really have to go AFK for a bit to cook/phone/work/whatever and I don't want to requeue again?"

Not our problem. There are people waiting for hours for a 50Q in EBG while everyone inside the map doesn't actually play for various (apparently crucial) IRL issues. More people being rightfully kicked from the map = much faster queues, so you can go back to repairing SMC walls as soon as you come back from your IRL stuff.

I don't think this will be the definitive solution, people will shift to using macros to move their characters around a spot, but it would be harder to set-up and macros can be detected by the client (they are allowed as autoclickers to open bags but thre could be a system in place to detect other keys, i.e. movement and skills).

[Dawdler.8521]

Just make an event every 20 minutes that SM has to be captured or everyone in WvW get kicked for inactivity. 

I dont see the problem with this.

[zemiacsik.4590]

and other maps have also 30+ queue at that time? If no, go there, if yes change server 🤷‍♂️

[XenesisII.1540]

The solution is you ignore it, report it as boting if you want, and carry on your own play.

As a player there's nothing we can do about it.

[Chips.7968]

16 hours ago, Defias.1892 said:

Every time I join EBG, there's at least 5-6 people openly wallrunning into structures to save their spot. Most of the time, this isn't a big issue, but EBG constantly gets queued during major events and it really hurts when we are missing half the team but we still have a queue of 30+ players.  Is there anything that can be done about this and why is the anti-AFK system so easily tricked by one autorun button?

What's the problem? Because those 5-6 wall runners aren't going to clear a 30 man queue. 

[Solvar.7953]

another solution would be to remove time based rewards - instead, you get wvw track and pips for doing actual activities (capturing things) in the game, instead of the participation system.  That might reduce the wall runners, if they are just trying to cash out the rewards they have, and keep up their participation by doing some activity every 10 minutes.  But presumably put this system in place to limit pips and track progress, so unlikely to change.

This doesn't help if people are doing it to keep a spot in the map while they grab a snack, or conceivably players who are doing it to just make the queues longer to annoy others.

 

[Caffynated.5713]

13 hours ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

if you don't kill or cap anything in 5 minutes, you get the boot.

That's much too short. It can easily take longer to drop what you're doing and go check if you're about to lose a keep or if it's just a tap and you wasted time running there, checking all the cata spots, and then running back to rejoin the fight. Even if it is a keep assault, it's not like you're going to kill anyone in a large group solo, so you're going to have to stand around until you have enough people to push them out. 

If ANet were willing to put in at least some effort, they could track actual distance moved and kick people if they don't travel at least a minimum distance per 5 minutes. 

11 minutes ago, Chips.7968 said:

What's the problem? Because those 5-6 wall runners aren't going to clear a 30 man queue. 

Normal players come in, do a daily and leave, respond to an emergency on another map or get wrecked and rage quit. The queue moves. AFKs just sit there, for hours, and the queue sits there, not moving. 

I can easily find 15 AFKs in EBG during peak times. 15 people is significant when you're fighting a 60 man boonblob with 30. 

[joneirikb.7506]

Another option:
* Freeze rewards/participation in the safe-area.
* Kick players after staying in the safe-area for X minutes (10?)

If they're outside they can be killed, so cool beans.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Reduce the timer when map is queued, and obviously don't allow autorunning to count.

As an expert "passive" (not afk) player, the timer is already pretty generous. Sometimes I forget to leave and it doesn't kick and my participation has drained from 6 to 0.

[XenesisII.1540]

Dunno why you all think they wall run for rewards on the most popular map, when they could wall run in an empty map and get the same rewards.

They do it so they don't have to go through the queue again.

Suggesting to make changes to rewards and it's structure makes no sense in this regard.

There's two things that actually need to change, detecting when a person is actually afk, and booting those players sooner. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[Gop.8713]

17 hours ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

if you don't kill or cap anything in 5 minutes, you get the boot.

I'm for this, but let's make it thirty seconds for anyone in a squad. Encourage some actual participation . . .

[Magaso.2104]

Make it so if someone is at 0 participation for too long, kick em.

[Mike.7983]

Just hire a gm to find wall runners, message them no reply kick, put them on a wvw que suspension, each time offends penalty raises until full ban.

Other option is fully disable auto run while in wvw.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Mike.7983

[RainWater.4762]

The wall should just kill them after 5 minutes. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

Wow if you ever needed an example of the meme for software projects this thread nailed it lol.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tree-swing-communications-benjamin-j-donnelly-pmp

[RisingDawn.5796]

Yeah, sounds like typical EBG, if your on that kind of server.

Even after getting through a 30 min queue, end up with 30 in a squad, the rest is roamers aka clouders and prolly afkers, who watch you get run over by most 60 player enemy blobs.

Edited October 17, 2023 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 minute ago, CrimsonOneThree.5682 said:

Yeah, sounds like typical EBG.

I don't disagree, but had a guildmate, unknowingly test this for 4 hours today as they stepped away to help a family member and ended up being afk for longer than expected on an outnumbered map as their PC went to a screen saver and they forgot they hadn't logged out. We of course ribbed them once they were back and didn't realize they hadn't know they were still in.

But lets now take that idea forward to players trying to purposely causing queue issues. I wouldn't agree that auto-run is an issue and have seen that it has its time and place.

I also don't agree with:

4 hours ago, Magaso.2104 said:

Make it so if someone is at 0 participation for too long, kick em.

Since trying and failing while overwhelmed is not the same as trying.

This would be ideal:

2 hours ago, Mike.7983 said:

Just hire a gm to find wall runners, message them no reply kick

So does it come down to inactivity while being in a non-spawn space that counts inactivity as no change in x/y/z positioning over time? Or where are the other loopholes that allow real AFKers but without impacting players trying but failing yet being active?

[SweetPotato.7456]

 after 10 minutes, if they are still in the same location, their wall will be removed and they will run outside of where ever they parked their toon, dies and gets a ban from entering for 10 minutes., like pvp's dishonor. if they do it again the next ban from entering becomes 20 minutes.

Edited October 16, 2023 by SweetPotato.7456