Do you like to have expansions and updates with a fixed and predictable deadline and content?

[Urud.4925]

Following the downfall of... another MMORPG and the fact that one of the reasons their players gave is the very predictable schedule/content of every patch, do you think that the new fixed schedule in GW2 is a good idea?

[Omega.6801]

Scheduling content and releasing it when it's ready are not mutually exclusive. Maybe the content is ready when it's scheduled to be released. That being said, having a roadmap and the company actually sticking to it is relatively new for GW2 so it's refreshing. Also, knowing what's coming up gives people time to prepare.

[Danikat.8537]

The only news I can find on an MMO shutting down recently is about one that was in early access and apparently may have been a scam, so I'm not sure which game you're refering to here or what the context for this actually is. (BTW you don't have to be vague and evasive unless you want to, you're allowed to name other games on this forum, you just can't start topics that have nothing to do with GW2.)

The important thing for me is that stuff's released when it's ready. I don't mind waiting for games (done it before, will do it again, can't remember it ever being a problem) but games that release unfinished can be extremely frustrating, sometimes literally unplayable.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Danikat.8537

[AlenaVolkova.8179]

I'd rather they give us contents we are not expecting once it's ready, rather than rushing it out and hurrying up for a conclusion.

[CoffeePlease.3082]

I like the idea of fixed schedule and content, but unfortunately I've been really let down on the content side of things. Convergences could have just been a meta event for all that it is. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy meta events and stuff, but I need more instanced content and only 2 strike mission per expansion isn't cutting it for me right now.

So that being said, if that means a fixed schedule has to be sacrificed for the sake of them making more to do I'm leaning towards that direction. I've already stopped playing for now before I forget the things I love about the game. I know they have limited resources, but I don't know man..this isn't enough in my opinion. 

Just my two cents since an opinion was asked. Not trying to start a whole thing lol 

[Ashen.2907]

As opposed to being kept in the dark, never knowing if the game you are playing is still being developed, and not having promised content actually see release? 

[Fueki.4753]

FF14 has a predictable schedule and it's doing well.

WoW started to have a somewhat predictable schedule and is recovering from the Shadowlands failure.

With the two biggest MMORPGs being on schedules, it seems like it's a good model.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Danikat.8537]

What does 'predictable content' mean here? Does it just mean they tell us well in advance what will be in each release? Or is it more like every expansion will always include the same number of maps, story steps, strike missions, Fractals, mastery lines, new skills and abilities and so on?

I interpreted it as the second which sounds like it would make things very formulaic and runs the risk of them making something purely for the sake of being able to say they checked that box, even if it's not any fun to play, but it seems like other people are interpreting it differently.

[TheNurgle.4825]

Internally in any company you always have fixed schedule and fixed content. Without that you can not manage resources be it budget or ppl. Why do you think that most announced things do not change even with backlash from customers? Reason is simple company allocated and committed resources to it and most change at that point mean additional cost, which you do not have so it is pushed anyway.

Issue is if company should share planned schedule and content with customers. SOTO is good example since you know what you get with rough timeline and some ppl do not understand it and want everything right now.

From devs perspective you want to have partial releases since you can get feedback before you finish product you can see this in last 10 years or so with early access for so many games. Extra money, free testing and free feedback from customers that sounds great.

If SOTO was not released in four parts, but only one when it is "done", then option for devs to change anything would be almost impossible. Like rifts vs convergence. Rifts are meh content and with convergence you do not need to do any rifts and farm essences in convergences. Also having ascended weapons and supreme runes as possible drops from convergence mean that it will not die out quickly.

[Danikat.8537]

56 minutes ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Internally in any company you always have fixed schedule and fixed content. Without that you can not manage resources be it budget or ppl. Why do you think that most announced things do not change even with backlash from customers? Reason is simple company allocated and committed resources to it and most change at that point mean additional cost, which you do not have so it is pushed anyway.

That might be the ideal, but the reality is you have your intended schedule and budget and then you have estimates for how much change you can allow either way (something coming in under budget can be a problem too, because then that money is tied up for no reason when it could be used for something else) and you regularly review it to see if you're still on schedule or need to revise your plans to allow for the reality of the situation.

Admittedly I suspect my work is a lot more variable than game development (for one thing it's often dependent on the weather - if the winter is warmer or colder or wetter than expected that can throw things off) but any type of project has to make some allowance for unexpected changes. Even when I worked in retail we always had to be prepared to make adjustments due to unexpected problems or factors outside our control.

[Astralporing.1957]

First and foremost, i'd like to have the content that is good, but beyond that, yes, stable schedule and reliable content releases are very desirable.

[Urud.4925]

3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

What does 'predictable content' mean here? Does it just mean they tell us well in advance what will be in each release? Or is it more like every expansion will always include the same number of maps, story steps, strike missions, Fractals, mastery lines, new skills and abilities and so on?

I interpreted it as the second which sounds like it would make things very formulaic and runs the risk of them making something purely for the sake of being able to say they checked that box, even if it's not any fun to play, but it seems like other people are interpreting it differently.

You interpreted the way I intended it. FFXIV delivers the same amount of savage raids, trials and dungeons at every expansion+patches, and it seems (some of) their players are becoming bored to always know what they'll get. ArenaNet started only now to break down the content like that (every future expansion will have 2+1 map, 2 strikes and 1 fractal) so for now it's fine. But I wondered if after a couple of years this will also lead to some apathy and boredom, like (some) FFXIV's players are experiencing now.

 

12 hours ago, Omega.6801 said:

Scheduling content and releasing it when it's ready are not mutually exclusive. Maybe the content is ready when it's scheduled to be released. That being said, having a roadmap and the company actually sticking to it is relatively new for GW2 so it's refreshing. Also, knowing what's coming up gives people time to prepare.

Releasing when it's ready means that it can be earlier, later or exactly when they planned to deliver it. It means that ArenaNet is not forced to meet a deadline, and thus it doesn't make much sense to announce a strict schedule (like they did before, to avoid ppl complaining for missing a dealine). It would be something vague like "next year we will deliver the alliances in WvW". I'm not saying that this will be better, it's simply an option in the poll (I didn't vote, I was interested in what people think).

[TheNurgle.4825]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

That might be the ideal, but the reality is you have your intended schedule and budget and then you have estimates for how much change you can allow either way (something coming in under budget can be a problem too, because then that money is tied up for no reason when it could be used for something else) and you regularly review it to see if you're still on schedule or need to revise your plans to allow for the reality of the situation.

Of course you are correct. You plan it before you start development and after that "revise" it several times. Most of times mid and upper management is not flexible and does not even understand that estimate is only estimate so you need to present "fixed" milestones. Also I believe that most mid and upper management failed elementary math classes. Like you need 10 months for development, get 6 months, in 7th month you discuss need of additional 4 months, in 8th month you get 2 months from those 4 you need and you are almost at end of year so next year you will fight for those extra 2 months. So 10 months development actually take 12-18 months in coporate.

I still remember when I saved 250k euro and it was seen as terrible and worse than going 250k euro over budget. Solution was great. Just buy whatever you want for work through supplier.

[AliamRationem.5172]

Communication is good.  Delivering on the things you communicate about is also good.  But ultimately what matters most is delivering a sufficient quantity of quality content.  I'm not feeling that with SotO.

[Nogothanc.5014]

To me, the other MMO is irrelevant, so I reduce the question to:

"Do you think that the new fixed schedule in GW2 is a good idea?"

Yes, it is a good idea because GW2 had no schedule, no content and no communication for a far too long time.

 

 

 

[Dibit.6259]

With Anet trying out the new model of releasing more content regularly but on smaller scale a lot of people have been left disappointed, especially if you compare it to previous expansions etc they've brought out. Whether this is the right path for gw2 is yet to be seen as it is early days.

I personally thought Soto was a good expansion (not the best but not aweful either), and I also like the fact that they build on it that let it sit for another year before releasing a new expansion. Of course there's a few things here and there that are bad or need improvement, but this new to them as well as their playerbase so I get it's gonna take time to try and work out the best way to do things.

[Gop.8713]

I didn't really understand the poll so didn't vote but after reading through the thread I would agree that releasing on schedule, i.e. prioritizing meeting a deadline, is a mistake. The 'days remaining' on the wv specials tab has always made me nervous for this reason, what if the content isn't ready in that many days . . ?

The origin of that fear is the worst misstep anet has made to date, back with the sigil of nullification collection during the Star to Guide Us release. But even then the problem wasn't so much that they released incomplete content to meet a deadline but that they refused to communicate that they were releasing incomplete content. With communication, the scheduled/unscheduled question becomes irrelevant to me . . .

As for the content part that's a mixed bag. On the one hand if they had a major release with no story content, for example, that wouldn't really make sense to me, but on the other hand if they tell me everything that's coming in advance with no surprises on release then a lot of the time the shine will have worn off by the time the content arrives. I think they're striking a good balance with this rn, especially with the renewed focus on the little qol changes that seem to come with almost every patch nowadays . . .

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Dibit.6259 said:

With Anet trying out the new model of releasing more content regularly but on smaller scale a lot of people have been left disappointed, especially if you compare it to previous expansions etc they've brought out. Whether this is the right path for gw2 is yet to be seen as it is early days.

I personally thought Soto was a good expansion (not the best but not aweful either), and I also like the fact that they build on it that let it sit for another year before releasing a new expansion. Of course there's a few things here and there that are bad or need improvement, but this new to them as well as their playerbase so I get it's gonna take time to try and work out the best way to do things.

You mean less content more regulary right?

[Kiki.9450]

A bit of both for me. I know they work on a fixed schedule internally (most software companies do), and the goal with this is to have things ready by certain deadlines anyway. As it is, they'll always have things ready by certain predictable dates. What's good about this, from my perspective as a player, is that I can predict what month or week I can get excited about a new release. GW2 gives us a little patch every two or three weeks with something, and bigger patches coming every three months is something for me to look forward to. The trick to keeping this sort of predictability fresh, however, is giving us surprises within. We know we're going to get something in February, but we don't know what all we're getting then. 

[Dibit.6259]

40 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You mean less content more regulary right?

I thought where I said "more content regularly but on a smaller scale" was clear enough, my bad.

I meant we get content regularly but it's not to the scale of previous expansions etc. 

E.g Eod having 4 strikes vs. Soto having 2.

[Cyninja.2954]

Quality and quantity are the 2 most essential components.

This can include mixing things up, changing things, introducing new things and dropping old items. 

Predictability is actually secondary in my opinion. It helps bridge content gaps, it helps pregenerate hype but in the end the actual execution matters. The most important part here is that players remain interested and aware that the next content drop will be of a specific type of quality.

That said, GW2 has had huge content droughts in the past. Most of the "now" memorable and loved content items where not well received or scrutinized at their time. HoT, the best expansion ever (according to these forums) as well as living world season 4 (or living world content in general) was regularly criticised for being to short, unpolished, underdeveloped and expensive for new players to get.

The main benefit of the new model will become apparent with the transition of SotO to the next mini expansion next year. Yes, if the time frame holds, we should be getting another SotO sized expansion shortly after this ones last eposide (likely August or October again). 

Years in the future players will then get to praise or critiszie SotO based on it's quality and quatity and the time frame or how predictable it was released will be of no concern.

TL;DR:

Predictability of releases is secondary to quantity and quality.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[ArchonWing.9480]

8 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

You interpreted the way I intended it. FFXIV delivers the same amount of savage raids, trials and dungeons at every expansion+patches, and it seems (some of) their players are becoming bored to always know what they'll get. ArenaNet started only now to break down the content like that (every future expansion will have 2+1 map, 2 strikes and 1 fractal) so for now it's fine. But I wondered if after a couple of years this will also lead to some apathy and boredom, like (some) FFXIV's players are experiencing now.

I don't actually understand that.

What are the alternatives? It'd be even more boring if people did not know when new content was coming out, and new content is generally better than no content. Also people like to plan around devoting certain blocks time to playing games so having a coherent schedule is important for them.  Sometimes people want to rotate around games, or just do something else at times.

[Sobx.1758]

Which option means "don't drip feed me one expansion's content over 3-4 releases throughout a year"? "predictable and when it's ready"? Then that one.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

9 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Communication is good.  Delivering on the things you communicate about is also good.  But ultimately what matters most is delivering a sufficient quantity of quality content.  I'm not feeling that with SotO.

I can't wait for the next time they start saying and showing they are communicating again with community fanfare, only for them to cut off communication in only a month.

[Cuks.8241]

I like good quality content. I don't care how they deliver it as long as it's good. 

On the topic. I will always take the predictable scheduling over being kept in the dark. I don't think that is really a choice for most. But on the other hand, based on gw2 past experience, when Anet tries to get into some kind of constant long term plan it fizzles. And when they sporadically release a big expansion at a point when it seems its a make or break for the game it turns out great. Maybe they just need some good old crunch time, psychological pressure, mobbing workplace culture.