Willbender still needs a nerf [Merged]

[kash.9213]

13 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Stop wasting time and effort asking for Bad Design Profession to be nerfed. Bad Designed can not be "nerfed". It is either rework Bad Design or removed it in its entirely.

Can one "nerf" a Bad Design House Foundation Infrastructure?

Can one "fix" a Bad Foundation without reworking its Foundation or remove its Foundation entirely?

Obviously Not!!

Remove Willbender Profession. Period!!

 

How many wasted years with more wasted time of "nerfing" Bad Design will end?

Bad Design=Bad Foundation

"You can't build a great building on a weak foundation"

 

In fact; Shut Down WvW

It's "Cornerstone" Foundation has been so ignored, neglect and beyond Damaged over the years on end, any talk about it, has turned it into a Meme Game Mode. 

Every game play of WvW has turned it into a Comedy Game Show where everyone laughs at it then walk away.

 

Cut WvW 11 years+ loss and Failure to capture and win a Healthy Competitive Gaming Experience for WvW Community

 

There are no Success, Gains  with Bad Design Foundation  Cornerstone!!

 

Anet, it is time to let go of  WvW 

Some Elites and some builds need to be adjusted, but I never think of Willbender or anything else when I'm in game beyond scoping out buffs and icons for a quick Control or kill list. Normally, it should only take a reasonable adjustment to one or two features or their dynamic with each other to put a build in line that Anet will or won't feel a sense of urgency for. Nothing is ruining my day enough to discard them entirely or to shut down WvW. I know some people will always have the forums but a lot of us kind of like being in game to vibe after a day. 

[Burnfall.9573]

I will cur to the chase. The only thing that changed is everything got worse.

I'm sure this is nothing new with you.

As for where the direction of the game is going...that shouldn't be new to you either.

With the introduction of Guardian Profession -Willbender Profession designed to surpass and to out play Warrior Profession, Ranger Profession, Elementalist Profession and the most Toxic Profession-Thief Profession roles...should be extremely alarming to newcomers, current players including potential players to walk away, stay far away from the game.

Adding Willbender Profession to the game secured Guild Wars 2 being the most Toxic Gaming Experience Game in the industry to be avoided at all cost 

Any little hope left for Guild Wars 2 future-WvW and PvP, is for the immediate removal of Willbender Profession 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

10 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

I don't get willbender complaints in wvw.  If getting one shot is a problem for you, why not play one of the MANY obnoxiously tanky cele builds to compensate? 

If there is a positive thing I can say about wvw roaming is that so many builds are so ridiculous that you have plenty of clown shoes to choose from.

People complain about Willbender, because it's common. Harbinger, Renegade and Virtuoso can be on the same level of slam your head into the keyboard and enemy dies, but you don't see those that much. People complain WB is OP, people flock to WB even if there are many other builds that are just as broken.

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

48 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

People complain about Willbender, because it's common. Harbinger, Renegade and Virtuoso can be on the same level of slam your head into the keyboard and enemy dies, but you don't see those that much. People complain WB is OP, people flock to WB even if there are many other builds that are just as broken.

I will say this as my only issue with willbender. If you spend the time to slam your head into your keyboard vs harbingers, renegades, and virtuosos; generally there’s a reward at the end. If you slam your head into your keyboard vs a willbender, your reward is watching them invuln and ooc at low health. It feels cheap. Is it anything new? No. To me it’s the same underlying reason a lot of people hate fighting thieves. The experience of combat feels empty when there’s a 99.9% chance that they get to just leave combat when you apply effort. 
 

My only suggestion, and this goes for all classes, not just willbenders, is there should be more target requirements for mobility skills and they should have a tiny cast time. Think rev phase traversal. That way mobility is weighted more towards getting into combat and less about getting out. 

[kash.9213]

14 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I will say this as my only issue with willbender. If you spend the time to slam your head into your keyboard vs harbingers, renegades, and virtuosos; generally there’s a reward at the end. If you slam your head into your keyboard vs a willbender, your reward is watching them invuln and ooc at low health. It feels cheap. Is it anything new? No. To me it’s the same underlying reason a lot of people hate fighting thieves. The experience of combat feels empty when there’s a 99.9% chance that they get to just leave combat when you apply effort. 
 

My only suggestion, and this goes for all classes, not just willbenders, is there should be more target requirements for mobility skills and they should have a tiny cast time. Think rev phase traversal. That way mobility is weighted more towards getting into combat and less about getting out. 

I can agree with most of that except the part in bold. I think that would mute the awesome combat mechanics this game's skills and many skills behavior on this game's terrain allow. A lot of frustration from a lot of players comes from how static and rigid they are with this game's combat where other players are not.

[Burnfall.9573]

45 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I will say this as my only issue with willbender. If you spend the time to slam your head into your keyboard vs harbingers, renegades, and virtuosos; generally there’s a reward at the end. If you slam your head into your keyboard vs a willbender, your reward is watching them invuln and ooc at low health. It feels cheap. Is it anything new? No. To me it’s the same underlying reason a lot of people hate fighting thieves. The experience of combat feels empty when there’s a 99.9% chance that they get to just leave combat when you apply effort. 
 

My only suggestion, and this goes for all classes, not just willbenders, is there should be more target requirements for mobility skills and they should have a tiny cast time. Think rev phase traversal. That way mobility is weighted more towards getting into combat and less about getting out. 

 

Take a look at this and ask me why would Anet go against WvW Community concern, concerning Willbender Profession, to buff it even more?

How is this listening to the Community loud and clear when instead of decreasing or removing their concerns, increase their pain and suffering more by Deliberately buffing the root cause of their pain and suffering??

Look!!

This Is Not A OOPSIE, It Is Intentional!!

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Yasai.3549]

12 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

I don't get willbender complaints in wvw.  If getting one shot is a problem for you, why not play one of the MANY obnoxiously tanky cele builds to compensate? 

It comes mainly from a standpoint of  "wait, why did Anet allow them to do this, but nerf my X Y Z for the same reason?" 

My comment above mentioned Power Coefficients. Some classes who rely heavily on Power damage for majority of their viable builds got that kind of stuff gutted to the dirt but seeing Willbender just willy nilly let off a 8k burst on a target with no Vuln and themselves with no 25 Might is definitely gonna ruffle some feathers. It shows biasness and that sort of thing causes massive dissatisfaction with the balance team because it feels like they're lying about their balance philosophy just to keep some builds weak while other builds strong. 

Cast in point, Willbenders having the mobility of pre Ini nerf Thief, just teleporting all over the place to and fro. Thief used to be able to do that, got nerfed for doing that and then Anet introduces this nonsense.  There's no official stance or reason as to why Willbender is allowed to do this but other mobility specs can't but I'm willing to bet even if they did put out a memo regarding their decision to let it stay as is, it's gonna just infuriate the players even more. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

Take a look at this and ask me why would Anet go against WvW Community concern, concerning Willbender Profession, to buff it even more?

So Burn I am of two minds here. I have lost 1v1 across various builds via some Willie and yet have fought and killed others in 1v4 other Willies. Does that make them OP or do other classes need nerfs? If we define Willie as OP does that mean all other classes that 1v2+ them need nerfs as well? I don't think they need buffs, but I disagree they are OP. I do appreciate threads that bolster them as OP since it means more players assuming they are OP which means more trying and accidents happening to them but....is this a balance issue, or are players not playing them to understand their mechanics or players not creating counter builds? We have lots of variables here. I favor this is more of an issue of players not playing the class to understand the warning and mechanics. I grabbed some guildmates to show them and after they were, "oh, I didn't see the danger outline". I admit mileage will vary though so this can vary across servers.

[Sonork.2916]

WB isn't any more powerful then other specs out there atm.   If you're having trouble with WBs, try to practice fighting them more.  Duel a friend who plays one AB or even in pvp.   You'll eventually figure out what to dodge and get better at fighting them.  GL!

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

I'd rather delete stealth and teefs from the game, would be much better for health of game in long run.
Willyblender should probably get the same mobility treatment as Eles, if your skills hit target then their cooldown is "normal" but if you use it to run away their cooldown is x2. The damage is "okayish"(could get some small shaves) but the mobility to reset fights is not. Saw it too many times how someone jumps in group then can just get away as well. 
We have a lot of weird other bs like harbinger, virtuoso, mirage, vindicator, catalyst that need to be looked and nerfed in some areas. Then we have boons and conditions which also are problem. Teef needs a full deletion, class with 0 counters shouldn't exist together with it's toxic stealth mechanic.
A-net need to get back to drawing board and write down what each class should be good at and be bad at, right now too much stuff overlaps making it bs.
In short, too much powercreep everywhere, also delete teefs and stealth.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

Take a look at this and ask me why would Anet go against WvW Community concern, concerning Willbender Profession, to buff it even more?

How is this listening to the Community loud and clear when instead of decreasing or removing their concerns, increase their pain and suffering more by Deliberately buffing the root cause of their pain and suffering??

Look!!

This Is Not A OOPSIE, It Is Intentional!!

 

Cele WB is strong, Power WB isn't. However, considering how many people I saw complaining that after eating the burst of a Soulbeast or Holo they died.. or that Gunflame is OP I'm not even really sure what is truly OP in GW2 and what is "I got killed by this, thus it's OP", because in case of the latter I could be posting videos of Cele Virt with the same lines as you.

Also, weren't you the person who kept linking Soulbeast videos of a person bursting down others who aren't even trying to fight claiming it's OP?

[PrinceValentine.9320]

Why everyone wants Guardian nerfed? 

There's a trade off with WB and it's definitely not as mobile as thieves. 

[tobin.6754]

All the zerglings can't stand a class that they can't just blob down.

[Kuya.6495]

8 hours ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

Why everyone wants Guardian nerfed? 

There's a trade off with WB and it's definitely not as mobile as thieves. 

Because blue class

[Kuya.6495]

12 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Cele WB is strong, Power WB isn't. However, considering how many people I saw complaining that after eating the burst of a Soulbeast or Holo they died.. or that Gunflame is OP I'm not even really sure what is truly OP in GW2 and what is "I got killed by this, thus it's OP", because in case of the latter I could be posting videos of Cele Virt with the same lines as you.

Also, weren't you the person who kept linking Soulbeast videos of a person bursting down others who aren't even trying to fight claiming it's OP?

I'm pretty sure some of the zerglings have been attacked by both power wb and cele wb and they have sort of just merged in their memories. This is why they sometimes simultaneously complain about 1 shot bursts and infinite boons and tankyness from wb.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Kuya.6495

[Triptaminas.4789]

>Nerf willbender. 

Ranger mains at it again lads!

Trying to shift attention from the actual wvw cannon that is making other players helpless, the damage, the cc, invulnerability! In a year of 2023 how the devs can let such disbalance exist!

 

Stop falling for Ranger psyop and misdirection. 

 

Nerf Untamed instead. 

[Triptaminas.4789]

44 minutes ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

>Nerf willbender. 

Ranger mains at it again lads!

Trying to shift attention from the actual wvw cannon that is making other players helpless, the damage, the cc, invulnerability! In a year of 2023 how the devs can let such disbalance exist!

 

Stop falling for Ranger psyop and misdirection. 

 

Nerf Untamed instead. 

And can someone tell me what im seeing in here 

Because i would like a word with a management of this establishment, this is simply wrong, what u suppose to do against this?

 

Wait until u hear about ele, the sneaky class managed to avoid nerfs from inception, every day i wake up, and ele's become stronger, u cant even kill them if u get them downed, rats just misform and ride into sunset, not to mention u need whole cavalry to down it while u eating that shock aura.... muh fresh air, muh scepter. 

Willbender rants is just big psyop by cabal of true offenders. 

What a measly 1 burst rellying willy can even do to you? just press dodge, kite a bit, run a small circle, next thing u know that "brave" willy helplessly spaming f2 to evade and hide cuz they know they are done for, its over, they must hide, they pressing f2-f3 and elite hoping they escape and manage to salvage some self respect in few minutes when cd recharge, yet after few minutes bunch of untamed, mirrage, HARBINGER, catalysts, and even a measly thiefs abusing the kitty out of him. 

 

Nerf the offenders, buff the willy, he suffered enough. 

The Ele mains be posting videos of poor malnurished glass blooded15k health pool willies scoring few victories, have some shame, one semi DECENT elementalist can outsustain in 1v5+, non stop generate every boon under the sun, while doing constant barrage of cc, and outputing damage that rivals somewhat fed 19k hp willy... also they can just do this for hours, having to flee because cd's need to reset is not in ele realm.

 

without enormous spam of cc/interrupt and burst damage u cant even catch them if they decide to bail, and camp in the earth rotations, need at least couple of dedicated dps builds and cc sup, i seen ele cleave 4 people and then successfully sustain 10+ people trying to kill/stop him. 

 

With all due seriousness now, u guys barking at wrong tree, 15k hp willy with extremely limited damage and sustain window aint a problem, and its in par with most of other classes, burst aint even that high, sustain isnt high either if u take in account that they left with no sustain after elite and virt usage.

The problem for game and its balance, ecosystem is stuff like ele, obv nothing changes unless we buy lot of nsoft stonks and demand to fire whole team of ele mains that is doing whole "balance" stuff here. There is just one class in game that does absolutely everything better when compared to other classes, and do it all at the same time.

One good ele is basically equivalent of whole subgroup/party, i refuse to play it because it simply feels wrong, like playing game on extreme easy mode, intellectually degrading stuff that turns wvw into very boring venture when roaming, anet run by ele mains.

Why nobody talking about this? That 5 catas in tourneys wipe everyone without any resistance whatsoever? its embarrassing for game and concept of balance.

I posted untamed that does more aoe burst + surreal cc, can post dozen of other meme glass builds from different classes that does what willy does, just better and with more hp, more perks like cc and so on. Only reason u people complain is because willbender is seen ten times more often than catalyst, and 20 times more often than untamed. 

Stop crying about glass builds and start playing glass builds yourself. Or if u actually care about balance and stuff, then complain about ele, spam to mother company about how its killing the game or smtg, maybe wait until pistols come out tho, then u have better argument. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Triptaminas.4789

[aegris.3175]

willbender spd spec on wvw is,almost from start "no pain,no brain,zoom zoom,gank,zoom zoom heal".they will never to nerf it,because casauls still want to be dominators.

 

[Sleepwalker.1398]

https://ibb.co/znZFmsC

As cele dura willy im hitting 5k plus Rushing Justice. (Person i hit was cele necro). I can hit higher to glass builds.

Hoping my mesmer can hit this much with GS 3 while being cele and why does this class need 2x F2?

[DarkFlopy.8197]

On 12/30/2023 at 1:51 AM, Triptaminas.4789 said:

>Nerf willbender. 

Ranger mains at it again lads!

Trying to shift attention from the actual wvw cannon that is making other players helpless, the damage, the cc, invulnerability! In a year of 2023 how the devs can let such disbalance exist!

 

Stop falling for Ranger psyop and misdirection. 

 

Nerf Untamed instead. 

Hey that's my video, thank you for watching it! 😁

Anywho I don't think this is a good example, this build is full on glass damage, there is no sustain here, it will mostly die in almost any 1v1 scenario not to mention 1vX, your only ace is the element of surprise with this compared to willbender (even glass ones) this is garbage 😔.

You can compare glass WB to glass Untamed on YouTube and you will see what I mean, at least they can clear the downs they create or escape, untamed can't 😕.

It's used for fun and creating downies for others to push on even if it costs your own life in the process, no way in hell that I'll use this in a roam or a small fight.
 

Edited January 1 by DarkFlopy.8197

[Sonork.2916]

7 hours ago, DarkFlopy.8197 said:

Hey that's my video, thank you for watching it! 😁

Anywho I don't think this is a good example, this build is full on glass damage, there is no sustain here, it will mostly die in almost any 1v1 scenario not to mention 1vX, your only ace is the element of surprise with this compared to willbender (even glass ones) this is garbage 😔.

You can compare glass WB to glass Untamed on YouTube and you will see what I mean, at least they can clear the downs they create or escape, untamed can't 😕.

It's used for fun and creating downies for others to push on even if it costs your own life in the process, no way in hell that I'll use this in a roam or a small fight.
 

Nobody cares about your reasons, big damage multi kills are OP!  Must nerf, cry and complain on forums neow instead of getting better~  XD

Edited January 1 by Sonork.2916

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

8 hours ago, DarkFlopy.8197 said:

Hey that's my video, thank you for watching it! 😁

Anywho I don't think this is a good example, this build is full on glass damage, there is no sustain here, it will mostly die in almost any 1v1 scenario not to mention 1vX, your only ace is the element of surprise with this compared to willbender (even glass ones) this is garbage 😔.

You can compare glass WB to glass Untamed on YouTube and you will see what I mean, at least they can clear the downs they create or escape, untamed can't 😕.

It's used for fun and creating downies for others to push on even if it costs your own life in the process, no way in hell that I'll use this in a roam or a small fight.
 

Most people know the difference between playing full glass and playing something that doesn't rely suprising others, but there are people who can't realize the difference between nuke or get nuked builds and actual builds with survivability and just assume that <insert spec here> has damage out of this world while having insane sustain.

 

[Mell.4873]

On 12/30/2023 at 12:51 PM, Triptaminas.4789 said:

>Nerf willbender. 

Ranger mains at it again lads!

Trying to shift attention from the actual wvw cannon that is making other players helpless, the damage, the cc, invulnerability! In a year of 2023 how the devs can let such disbalance exist!

 

Stop falling for Ranger psyop and misdirection. 

 

Nerf Untamed instead. 

That is extremely hard to pull off, he had to engage with stealth to even catch people off guard. 

I don't think Willbender needs a stealth check to get off its burst off. 

Also did you see the cooldowns, he used them all with only one stun break for getting away. There is probably a very good reason he does not show the end of the engagement since he will be dead. 

Edited January 1 by Mell.4873

[XenesisII.1540]

Remember that excuse in feb 2020, skills doing too much, so cc skills got their damage nerfed, yeah well since then they've introduced more skills that do too much.

Mobility and stealth skills should do the same damage as CC skills. 🤷‍♂️

[DarkFlopy.8197]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

There is probably a very good reason he does not show the end of the engagement since he will be dead. 

Well it's like a 50/50 gamble, if you manage to escape before they notice what is going on, mostly they notice the pet first and nuke It to orbit while I escape.

But the main reason I don't show the end of the engagements is because I try to sync the gameplay to the music and showing the entire engage might be way too long, won't fit the sync and mostly no one wants to see that (feedback from viewers over the year).