Tired of the 'Stanford Experiment' bullying / harassment

[Boh.4568]

You forgot to mention that in WvW you literally kill people

[Passerbye.6291]

9 hours ago, LordMadman.5812 said:

Most of the time my experiences in WVW are enjoyable as people normally respect one another's choice to not join a VOIP / Discord. However, during our recent server match-up I guess there's a known acceptable culture of kicking people for not being on VOIP, joining their guild, or just straight up running a private squad (but requesting people to ask to join)? These are all examples of how the game enables bullying and harassment over others, and fosters that culture. People use a position of power (commander) over others and abuse it because they can, which has negative effects on the other individuals as result of exclusion / harassment (Stanford Experiment). 

Yes, I have roamed and I have roamed outside of the squad but you don't get the same benefits from shared abilities or progress. Like bags / XP on shared boons. I have even tagged up but it's normally just me and maybe one or two other people that were also shunned from not conforming to control attempts. I don't have the time to commit to running a guild so I can have 20-30 people join my squad so that I can get PUG lemmings to join. This game mode in particular creates situations where an individual can get harassed by large groups of people for not doing what others want (really the commander). In the future, I recommend a game mode that doesn't elevate a single individual over a group so that everyone can share in the experience. Elevated permissions over individuals is too much power / control which is frequently abused.

Honestly, anyone reading this probably wouldn't want to hear you speak on discord, so in a way, you do achieve your goal mate, kudos.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

So... Commanders are bad for kicking people from their squad who don't follow their request? When  I was back on Surmia we had a Commander who always asked for voice in his squad.. people just joined RoS Discord and listened to him.. or just followed the tag around outside the squad.

People are perfectly allowed to run Private squads, one reason being that the tag is invisible on the map so it won't draw unwanted attention, from friendlies and enemies alike. 

Though, in all fairness, when you equate not being allowed into squads asking for voice, because you refuse voice or private squads to bullying and harassment there isn't much reason to try to explain anything to you.

[Ashantara.8731]

6 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Or the impact of a culture of "safetyism" where cognitive distortions such as emotional thinking (i feel x so y is true) and catastrophizing (i can't join squad so now i can't play at all) are encouraged over critical thinking?

That is a good point. Still, critical thinking requires a healthy self-esteem to be able to reflect and process things properly. And today's social interactions (or lack thereof) make it harder for some to develop that.

When you suffer from a low self-esteem, resulting in depression, you perceive a lot of things as "catastrophic" that aren't.

[T G.7496]

You're getting in your own way and blaming others for your own issues.

But I don't know why I'm replying, since this is destined to become one of those threads to which the OP never returns.

[Mimizu.7340]

15 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

one reason being that the tag is invisible on the map so it won't draw unwanted attention, from friendlies and enemies alike.

Are you saying that enemies can see our tags when not set to private? 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Mimizu.7340 said:

Are you saying that enemies can see our tags when not set to private? 

Technically. Some servers make accounts on the servers they're against(or their links).

It happens occasionally, Gandara seems to be doing it a lot, and when I was still on Surmia WSR loved to do it. But it's mostly for wasting tacs in objectives.

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, Mimizu.7340 said:

Are you saying that enemies can see our tags when not set to private? 

No someone on the other side can not see your side's tag. Didn't want to confuse people reading but not active on the forums that might be new players.

3 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Technically. Some servers make accounts on the servers they're against(or their links).

It happens occasionally, Gandara seems to be doing it a lot, and when I was still on Surmia WSR loved to do it. But it's mostly for wasting tacs in objectives.

Spy accounts do exist but to Mimizu these are flagged as friendlies to the game since its an alt account that is on your server. So invisible tags do make tracking a tag via the map harder in this way.

[Svanhvit.4387]

Oh look, someone took Psych 101 (Stanford Experiment). 

Voice coms in games is like what...20 years old now?  Granny Gamer here says get over it.  Also, stop being "ableist".  Voice commands probably allows a lot of people to play the team aspects of this game.  That great commander there---might be playing one-handed and with foot pedals. You don't know, and you don't need to know.

Just get in voice comms and listen. Their squad, their rules.  

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:09 PM, Passerbye.6291 said:

Honestly, anyone reading this probably wouldn't want to hear you speak on discord, so in a way, you do achieve your goal mate, kudos.

I don't want to hear anyone speak on Discord--haven't since the days of TF2 and Teamspeak lol.

I also understand this means I stick to my guild tag who does not use voice or roam.

OP, WvW may be a prison experiment, but voice comms isn't the reason lol.  

Edited December 24, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[vegan.4329]

What an interesting post. Basically it reminds of a issue that happened regarding this on reset a couple of weeks ago. The pin told people to get in discord or get kicked from the squad. These said people did not and was kicked. One player, was so angry of being kicked that he hopped on the discord to chew out the tag, referring to him as a "Basic B***h."

To that person thank you for the entertainment, even if it was a bit basic. But basically I wanted to say that basically you really just wasted everyone time in the channel. I know it was a basic channel. Real basic. But please if you read this good sir, please just basically refrain from your basic comments. The were basically unwanted.

 Thank you and have a Basic Christmas. o/

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

Latest in a long list of people who are upset that others aren't playing they way they want them to.  

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Well, there's three options for you here.

1) accept that the commander is not obliged to do anything for you in game if you're not willing to do anything for him

2) dismiss the commander, switch map and tag up yourself

3) carry on what you were doing regardless

The group isn't obliged to create content for you. If you want to engage in the content they create, be prepared to do what they ask to propagate and support said content. Or, be prepared to create your own content.

The knife cuts both ways on this one. I am a thief main, I mostly roam and I help a group when I feel like it. When someone new to WvW roams with me then complains about being ganked, I tell them to bring a roaming build and not to +1 duels. If they do that, I'll teach them how to handle various situations from there, but if they don't follow that advice they can't be surprised if I leave them for dead while spamming /laugh. Zerg play is the same, stick to the established rules of the group or be left to fend for yourself. 

[kash.9213]

On 12/24/2023 at 3:32 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I don't want to hear anyone speak on Discord--haven't since the days of TF2 and Teamspeak lol.

I also understand this means I stick to my guild tag who does not use voice or roam.

OP, WvW may be a prison experiment, but voice comms isn't the reason lol.  

I've had to lead with voice comms in other games, so I get it, but I just don't get on discord in this game anymore. I'm not against it and would encourage it but I have limited time and voice comms is a gamble for my ears and brain that's not in my favor when I'm vibing after work for a few minutes. Guild commanders shot calling is a gamble also and I'm more help moving myself when and where I need to help a tag, plus I won't be a squirreling dot on the map for them. 

I don't get why people feel like they have to be in voice comms or right on top of a tag if they're all in the same area. I try not to be a body in their circles when their blasting it for each other and I try not to follow them or give them away when I know they're plotting something. But OP can do whatever they want right there with everyone else regardless. Voice comms or chat is needed for some stuff but the majority of WvW is driven and responded to by body language.

Be alert OP and listen to the wind if you can't get on comms. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

I've had to lead with voice comms in other games, so I get it, but I just don't get on discord in this game anymore. I'm not against it and would encourage it but I have limited time and voice comms is a gamble for my ears and brain that's not in my favor when I'm vibing after work for a few minutes. Guild commanders shot calling is a gamble also and I'm more help moving myself when and where I need to help a tag, plus I won't be a squirreling dot on the map for them. 

I don't get why people feel like they have to be in voice comms or right on top of a tag if they're all in the same area. I try not to be a body in their circles when their blasting it for each other and I try not to follow them or give them away when I know they're plotting something. But OP can do whatever they want right there with everyone else regardless. Voice comms or chat is needed for some stuff but the majority of WvW is driven and responded to by body language.

Be alert OP and listen to the wind if you can't get on comms. 

lol, and voice com varies. I love (not) the ones that think they should have been football announcers if things had worked out...."bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb water water water water water push push push push push bomb bomb bomb bomb boooooooommmmmmmbbbb goooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllll water water water water water water WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF! Man you all suck."

Mileage varies though tag to tag. First thing I would recommend to anyone heading to WvW and not with a guild group is get used to reading a tag while not in voice so that they can better learn the tags movements and gain better situational awareness. Then if they get in voice they will already be in a better position while listening in for directional movements.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Being in voice is generally better because you have a max of two eyes typically so usually someone will catch something before you do. And I say this is someone that rarely joins other discords or squad. (I usually am in guild or friend discord and have our own comp, so we have no need to have that broken up). Also the squad may decide to change maps so that is nice to know too especially if things are queued.

Yes, there are sometimes guilds that do not control their comms and there is too much chatter but you don't use those as an example.

All and all it is fair that if the commander should expect as much effort from their followers as they put in, and it is a player's right to play with those players with a similar mindset. If you are just using a squad as a train to free dailies and press 1, then find another train or at least pretend you are trying.

What is truly amazing is people putting more effort into writing subpar rants online then actually trying. This is why a lot of people can't seem to succeed. And on that topic, most rants fail because they are about themselves and whatever clever psychological term showed up in Google or the feed 5 minutes ago.

When you fail to understand your audience and fail to understand terms you just picked up, you're going to fail. Much like in WvW. And sadly it snowballs; people that fail and do not move to correct (rather blaming other people) tend to fail even more.

When i rant on the forums, I usually do it also for entertainment and a challenge. It is my goal to amuse not only myself but also to inform other people. Failing that, I can attempt to amuse them a little.  Whatever I say is going to dissolve under the snow, whether or not I am right by next week so the only thing one can do is seek improvement. That, and believe it or not, I would always prefer playing the actual game first.

In other words I am generally not here to offload my emotional baggage/damage and thus better insulated, because right or wrong, there is only one truth:

Which actually does make me worry about all these dramatic posts written on game forums, if actually not trolling.  How difficult would the rest of life be for them? Is every moment just like....

That's probably too much self reflection to expect though.

Edited December 26, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Burnfall.9573]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:25 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Tags are not a requirement. Tags are optional.

If you want to join a Tag but don't want to accept their lead and or requirements then you can:

• Follow along anyway - we have so much boon share you are still flooded with boons while just zerg surfing along
• Choose not to join
• Tag up yourself as an open Tag
• Join voice but just listen
• Go to another Tag that is open
• Switch maps
• Find a Havoc to team up with
• Flashmob it

If you have a Tag as you said then you know those elevated permissions really only do like a handful of things and none of that is preventing a player from playing at the same time and place that squad is playing at. So will have to go with a -1 from me on that idea.

 

 

Before I was about to respond, I feel a sense of peace reading your post. As a advocatate against Toxicity, I also encourage the Op to take your peaceful approach into consideration

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

Before I was about to respond, I feel a sense of peace reading your post. As a advocatate against Toxicity, I also encourage the Op to take your peaceful approach into consideration

Burn if we ever link, will welcome your company while roaming. Just be ready, I make bad decisions way to often. If you never attack via 1 v 5 how do you practice a 1 v 5? Good hunting!

Edit: Hope your holidays were awesome! 

Edited December 27, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
Edit: Was rude

[Lucy.3728]

If you're playing in a group, you probably won't disable chat so you can't read what they write. The same reasons are behind voice.

From experience, squads with people who listen and follow the commander are more successful than squads where the commander is just a lamp for other players to follow.

In PvP situations it can make the difference between winning and losing, as can the team composition. If certain roles are missing in the squad, then the squad cannot win in a situation against a better organized squad. The commander would have to use other tactics to slowly thin out the opponent, and that's where people in voice are even more important.
A squad that only does ppt will hardly insist on voice and metabuild. But if you as a player want to play ppk/gvg/zerg vs zerg, then you should follow the rules of the game that lead to victory. Nobody wants to play to lose. If you hinder the team then you are not a team player and have no place in a team. Logical, isn't it? If you want to go your own way, then go it, but alone. Because then you're also playing for yourself. That's fine too. But whining because you don't want to play the team rules in a team is immature.
I don't like playing metabuilds in wvw because I've done it for so long, it bores me, but then I don't join an organized squad either. And when I do, I switch to a metabuild and join voice.

I even go to Discord even though I don't like Discord for voice. For me, Teamspeak is professional and Discord is unprofessional. But it is a popular tool for voice communication in international teams. It also has the advantage that you can use it in your browser and don't have to install an extra program.

On 12/23/2023 at 1:21 PM, LordMadman.5812 said:

People use a position of power (commander) over others and abuse it because they can

A commander has no power.

The masses decide, not 1 commander. If the masses don't want to follow him, then the commander can't do anything about it.

He is dependent on others voluntarily following him and doing what he says. If they don't, then that is frustrating for a commander. Everyone has probably experienced that the PUG zerg does everything but what the commander says and roams around everywhere but is not at the tag. So it's the opposite situation.
Do you think that's better?
I find it pointless.

Your problem has nothing to do with harassment, but with the question of whether you can adapt if you want to play together or not. It's not the others, it's you.

That is nature. Natural selection. Natural adaptation. Being part of a community. Making compromises.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Lucy.3728

[Mabi black.1824]

On 12/23/2023 at 8:39 PM, CafPow.1542 said:

I mean the attitude being entitled to things without the need to „do something for it“ (or work for it).

 

On 12/23/2023 at 11:09 PM, Passerbye.6291 said:

Honestly, anyone reading this probably wouldn't want to hear you speak on discord, so in a way, you do achieve your goal mate, kudos.

I took 2 quotes at random, because it seems to me that they are all on the same line. You are only judging the author of this post, with the result of pushing him even further away. in my opinion.

while this author must be told and explained that he is wrong. His perspective and interpretation are wrong. You don't have to feel left out if you don't get an invitation to a team or guild, especially if they have requirements. It's all normal, this is a competitive mode, some players will advise you on how to play, others will ask you to join on voice platforms, others will be even more restrictive in their requests etc etc. all normal and ordinary. You just have to think that this isn't your game like it's not my game. It is an online game that embraces a considerable number of players. You'll find a lot of different things in it. But that's also what makes it particularly interesting. 

p.s. You'll also find players like myself who put tags open to everyone. Because they are supporters of free will, hostile to rules and restrictions. Be careful because the price to pay for being free is a high risk of insured death. 🤭

Edited December 27, 2023 by Mabi black.1824

[Passerbye.6291]

45 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

I took 2 quotes at random, because it seems to me that they are all on the same line. You are only judging the author of this post, with the result of pushing him even further away. in my opinion.

The contents and manner of his post sounded entitled to me, hence my dismissal. You don't go around spouting kitten like people abuse their position of power or call it bullying when people kick you for not fulfilling the basic requirements of their squad. I'm not here to hold his hand, he made baseless accusations in an obnoxious manner and received the response he deserved. Now, if you don't mind holding someone's hand to help them, more power to you, just don't pull me down that hole with you. I'm more of an old school grow a spine kind of guy. Not everything that hurts your feelings is bullying. So the best advice I'd give him here is "toughen up buttercup".

[Burnfall.9573]

6 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Burn if we ever link, will welcome your company while roaming. Just be ready, I make bad decisions way to often. If you never attack via 1 v 5 how do you practice a 1 v 5? Good hunting!

Edit: Hope your holidays were awesome! 

My friend, my holiday was great and I hope your holiday was great as well

[disForm.2837]

21 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Well, there's three options for you here.

1) accept that the commander is not obliged to do anything for you in game if you're not willing to do anything for him

2) dismiss the commander, switch map and tag up yourself

3) carry on what you were doing regardless

The group isn't obliged to create content for you. If you want to engage in the content they create, be prepared to do what they ask to propagate and support said content. Or, be prepared to create your own content.

The knife cuts both ways on this one. I am a thief main, I mostly roam and I help a group when I feel like it. When someone new to WvW roams with me then complains about being ganked, I tell them to bring a roaming build and not to +1 duels. If they do that, I'll teach them how to handle various situations from there, but if they don't follow that advice they can't be surprised if I leave them for dead while spamming /laugh. Zerg play is the same, stick to the established rules of the group or be left to fend for yourself. 

Some time ago I found myself roaming with a couple of thieves. I normally zerg, but when I roam I play harb, the bruiser version. 

First encounter, 3 baddies and my two guys just deserted! I said, fuk, I'm dead. When the three guys were trying to kill me, suddenly "my" thieves popped one guy and went away, rinse and repeat.

After 1 hour, we cleaned the whole map of everyone not in a zerg. Every single roamer group though I was an easy pray. Fun afternoon.

[manky wench.4012]

Being asked to join voice is not harassment or control, if you dont want to follow instructions thats on you. You cant expect a tag to type everything to accomodate you.

You have tried tagging but nobody followed so you give up? The commanders we have didnt just stroll into WvW one day and get full squads on day one. They have invested a huge amount of time and effort into establishing themselves as leaders. Successfully leading requires skill and giving the group constant direction, claim this as control if you like. Not understanding the effort it takes to have any size group complete an objective, win a fight etc results in you complaining about the game mode and claiming harassment. 

If you want ACTUAL harassment, tag up everyday for hours and be told you're kitten over and over, even if you do well someone will still say you are kitten, people complain relentlessly no matter what you do and good luck dealing with snowflakes like yourself in your squad.

Edited December 28, 2023 by manky wench.4012
spelling

[Norseman.4280]

On 12/23/2023 at 4:47 AM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your attitude towards this whole ordeal?

People insisting on squad members joining the voice chat has nothing to do with "wanting to control others" or "harassment". It's merely beneficial if everyone hears the Commander and is on the same page during a fight, which leads to a higher chance of success. It also takes a huge load off the Commander when they don't have to constantly type while roaming the map.

Fine but not all of us want to hear the constant barrage of stupid kitten coming out of stoned 19 year old's mouths all night long.

Not everyone falls into that clique nor wants to hear it. I tried. I can't.