Should HoT maps be made less difficult?

[Goettel.4389]

@deatine.2498 said:Well I pretty much hated HoT; not necessarily because of the much more difficult enemies, but the friggin navigation/where the waypoints are.I wouldn't mind if it had been advertised that HoT is much harder than the core game (guess I overlooked it?), because then I probably would not have bought HoT.

@"Goettel.4389" said:I sometimes wonder why people play MMOs if they won't group.

MMO does not necessarily mean "being

forced

to play together" just because all other MMOs did it that way. MMO simply means "there's lots of other actual people". What any specific game makes of that is a different story.

It was one of the defining things of the core game that you could do pretty much everything on your own if you wanted, but you could do it faster/better in a group. And I'm pretty sure it was intentionally designed that way.

Fair enough, different strokes. I'm actually drawn to GW2 because it allows me to group for more difficult (although still casual) content without having to necessarily having to 'belong' to that group. HoT's difficulty is one of the primary reasons I've stuck around here over alternative MMOs, exactly because it forces grouped play, whilst providing the LFG tool to form casual bands of single-serving comrades. And lack of group content is also why PoF zones are far less populated than HoT's.

[Sylvari.2953]

HoT is fine and more fun than PoF, don't ruin it, please! GW2 is a massively multiplayer game, we're supposed to team up and do stuff together. If someone doesn't like multiplayer content, then they should play single player games, there are plenty of RPGs out there.

[Ashen.2907]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@EdgarMTanaka.7291 said:I understand that for some games can be challenging and some people don't like challenge. But for me on the other hand, I do like games that does not instantly make you win. When I play a game for the first time, I don't want to plow through it without dieing. I want to learn from my mistakes and feel that I am Getting better. But yes, there are times in games and GW2 is cursed by it too, where there is too much punishment for failure. For example, you are walking a long way, almost doing a JP to get to a HP, this time there are no other players around and it is the first time fighting the boss at the HP and you die and you have to do it all over again.Also, it is an MMO please learn that you play with other players the point is for you to ask for help. I myself rather enjoy playing solo too but I try to not complain about to little solo content in an MMO.

I can tell you one thing, I work nights and back during season 3 I'd ask for help and get told it's the middle of the night, maybe there should be a mechanic in place that scales back the difficulty depending on the population on the map, or that sets the Metas off like Rift when they hit a population threshold.

I just play an Reaper at this point as it's the only class that works for people like me that plays half the time during off hours.

Due to current conditions at my place of employment I mostly play at night as well. I find that pretty much any class works solo.

[Tails.9372]

I don't think the maps themselves need to change but I do think there should be other ways to get some of the meta related rewards then just pure luck. Take Ghostly Infusion for example, this item can be acquired from both Gorseval's Chest or bourght from Scholar Glenna for raid currency + 20 gold after the fight. Similarly items like Chak Egg Sac should also be purchasable from the vendor which appears after event completion for let's say 10000 Ley Line Crystals + 50 Chak Eggs + 20 gold. There is no need for double standards here.

[Malediktus.9250]

"absurdly challenging"?It is not really challenging anymore, was harder in beta if I recall right

[otto.5684]

Unless you are soloing champions, it is the same difficulty as PoF. Most events need at least 3 people to complete.

[Bish.8627]

I say leave it as it is. As permanent reminder that the PoF maps are so much better and that is how a map should be made. But in all seriousness. I think the difficulty could be tweaked a bit, say with another MMO when their level cap raised they adjusted the maps you level up in. This could be said for living story. Maybe adjust it now as I think HoT is more difficult than PoF.

[zealex.9410]

they are fine rn

[Sereath.1428]

No and PoF is a boredom fest.

[Rhyse.8179]

Heck no. With as easy and dissapointing as POF's PVE is, I want there to be some aspect left of the open world that still has some challenge.

[Randulf.7614]

Given that hot maps are generally easier than pof maps ( metas and hps aside), i think hot is fine as it is now. I think there is a potential case for nerfing hps, but at this time, the maps are still well populated - often more so than pof in my observations

[marelooke.9708]

PoF mobs (and as a result: maps) are much more annoying than HoT ones if you ask me. They have insane aggro and leash ranges so if you get knocked off your mount (which happens rather often since the mobs are specifically designed for it) you are either dead or in a fight, and in the latter case you probably have to kill half the map with the ridiculous aggro ranges. There are reasons why most of the players I talk to don't return to PoF maps except when they specifically need something there.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Rhyse.8179 said:

I will admit that HOT was absolute misery at first, but that's because they didn't give it a learning curve. You go from vanilla GW2, which is easy, to HOT, which does not allow mistakes, with no transition in between the two gameplays. They could have used the story to teach the needed techniques but you know, Anet will be Anet.

While I agree with most of your comments, the above is untrue. Sure, some core mobs are remarkably easy, especially in light of multiple nerfs over time. However, there has been a ramp-up over time. Revamped Risen and Krait are harder than the previous iteration. The Molten Alliance, Toxic Alliance, Clockwork and Aetherblade armies from Season 1 were harder than core mobs. The Mordrem who appeared in Season 2 (as well as Dry Top and Silverwastes) were also more dangerous. All of those armies feature(d) mobs which presented as much or nearly as much danger as the dangerous enemies in HoT. Sure, if someone jumped from leveling in core maps, never did any of the Living World content, the gap is there. However, that's not because ANet has not been attempting to present greater challenge during ongoing development.

Each of those armies drew complaints about being too difficult on their release. Then, people adapt, and the complaints drop off over time, only to resurface the next time ANet rolls out something new. I believe that we're now seeing renewed complaining about HoT for two reasons:

• The PoF/HoT bundle and price reduction for HoT have brought in players new to the HoT maps. Some of these people are reacting as some did at HoT release.
• Two game design aspects of the HoT maps tend to get lumped in with a perception of general difficulty. Those are: Champion Hero Challenges, which people who want to solo exploration dislike; and map design, which in Hot can create a level of frustration all its own.

I also believe that the lack of navigation difficulty and the Vet Hero Challenges in PoF contribute to the perception that PoF is easier, even though the mob armies in PoF are not markedly different in terms of threat than HoT ones. Sure, the threats are different, and require different responses, but it's no more possible in Hot to run into things that can defeat you than it is in PoF.

[Zaklex.6308]

@Felipe.1807 said:I soloed all the HP on the maps the second time I played(map wasnt popular anymore, and I dont want to waste time serching a HP train), with the exception of those mushrooms...but still, they could use some rework, lots of then are Champs, they could use some rework to scale better, a solo player should not be forced to fight a champion.

With the exception of the Mushroom one, all of the Champion HP's are soloable...for anyone that has played since release the HoT maps harken back to Orr at release. Keep in mind this content was designed for level 80's, which presumes you've played the core game and have at least one character that completed the personal story and finished Orr.

[Palador.2170]

I hate the HoT maps, but I think it's important to keep them as they are now.

Some people like a much harder game than I do, and some like the map-wide meta event chains. Back when all we had was HoT and core, it made sense to make HoT more accessible. Now we have other maps, other options. Also, as someone pointed out, mounts make HoT easier and future content may be of even more help there. It would be best to leave it alone and let those that enjoy it as it is, continue to do so.

Now, there DOES need to be a change, but not there. Rather, it's to make sure that nothing major is hard-locked behind HoT content. Adding the Juvenile Tiger into one of the LS3 maps was a good example of this, but there's still more that needs an alternate access path. That way, HoT "hard mode" never feels like a requirement, and we'll hopefully have fewer calls to nerf it. (And fewer people being frustrated by it.)

[Lord Kreegan.8123]

@deatine.2498 said:Well I pretty much hated HoT; not necessarily because of the much more difficult enemies, but the friggin navigation/where the waypoints are.I wouldn't mind if it had been advertised that HoT is much harder than the core game (guess I overlooked it?), because then I probably would not have bought HoT.

@"Goettel.4389" said:I sometimes wonder why people play MMOs if they won't group.

MMO does not necessarily mean "being

forced

to play together" just because all other MMOs did it that way. MMO simply means "there's lots of other actual people". What any specific game makes of that is a different story.

It was one of the defining things of the core game that you could do pretty much everything on your own if you wanted, but you could do it faster/better in a group. And I'm pretty sure it was intentionally designed that way.

People need to remember that "MMO" absolutely does not mean "ZERG Online", but mindless zergs are what are required for HoT.If you're part of a large guild that regularly runs HP trains or you were around when HoT was released and zergs were common, then HoT is/was great and wonderful. Otherwise -- be honest if you can set your ego aside for a while -- HoT sucks donkey dongs.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:Your basic assumption doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I see HoT HP trains regularly and have had no trouble completing the meta.

How about the middle of the night, like now for example?

If I want to complete an objective in open world, it generally isn't difficult to find help in this game. Even at odd hours like late at night or early in the morning. I should know! I work shifts, so my schedule is all over the place.

Just take the initiative. Tag up. Advertise in map chat. Use LFG. If you need help, you want to A - Be sure you're asking at an appropriate time (i.e. not during the meta on a meta map!), and B - Use all available channels for your request! If all you do is ask in map chat, you aren't going to have as much success as if you tag up, advertise in map chat, and list on LFG. That's why tags and LFG exist in the first place! Use them!

[zealex.9410]

If anything id like pof to take thing from Hot like the metas.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

they don't have to be made easier but I would like it if they weren't such a hard road block on the path to gen2 Legendarys (250 Crystalline Ore is like a mountain in the way of crafting a legendary..., yes I hate DS more than I could ever describe).

[Feanor.2358]

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:they don't have to be made easier but I would like it if they weren't such a hard road block on the path to gen2 Legendarys (250 Crystalline Ore is like a mountain in the way of crafting a legendary..., yes I hate DS more than I could ever describe).

You can't be bothered to play DS 5-6 times for 1 legendary? Get serious...

[Chris McSwag.4683]

HoT doesnt need to be easier, people just need to suck less.

[Vayne.8563]

@Lord Kreegan.8123 said:

@deatine.2498 said:Well I pretty much hated HoT; not necessarily because of the much more difficult enemies, but the friggin navigation/where the waypoints are.I wouldn't mind if it had been advertised that HoT is much harder than the core game (guess I overlooked it?), because then I probably would not have bought HoT.

@"Goettel.4389" said:I sometimes wonder why people play MMOs if they won't group.

MMO does not necessarily mean "being

forced

to play together" just because all other MMOs did it that way. MMO simply means "there's lots of other actual people". What any specific game makes of that is a different story.

It was one of the defining things of the core game that you could do pretty much everything on your own if you wanted, but you could do it faster/better in a group. And I'm pretty sure it was intentionally designed that way.

People need to remember that "MMO" absolutely does not mean "ZERG Online", but mindless zergs are what are required for HoT.If you're part of a large guild that regularly runs HP trains or you were around when HoT was released and zergs were common, then HoT is/was great and wonderful. Otherwise -- be honest if you can set your ego aside for a while -- HoT sucks donkey dongs.

This is about as false as you get. I've two-manned about 90% of HoT which is hardly a zerg. The only HPs I have problems with two man are the mushroom in TD and Balthazar's Rest. The rest of them I can two man. I can map complete two man, except for those two hero points. So a group of five should have no real issue. Which I wouldn't call a zerg.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Really? Sorry but the backlash was huge and some enemies (shroom explosion 30k damage etc.) is just plain stupid overtuned damage.

I am by no means a noob, I play gw since 2006, I didn't have problems with the HoT maps. But I still found some enemies had totally out of place overtuned numbers which are not fun and make no sense at all. They found a good balance with PoF, vanilla is far too casual imho.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:they don't have to be made easier but I would like it if they weren't such a hard road block on the path to gen2 Legendarys (250 Crystalline Ore is like a mountain in the way of crafting a legendary..., yes I hate DS more than I could ever describe).

You can't be bothered to play DS 5-6 times for 1 legendary? Get serious...

that's roughly 10-12 Hours of doing something that is the furthest away from anything fun you can do in GW2. The only reason I play GW2 is because I enjoy playing it - I do however not enjoy playing DS. But don't worry, I did eventually collect enough Crystalline Ore since HoT release for my first Gen2 Legendary. Unfortunatly there are more that I would like to aquire but it's probably going to take me 2-3 Years minimum only because of DS. It's almost impossible for me to convince myself that the Legendarys are worth going through that meta over and over...

[Khubbo.9067]

as HoT isint the main expansion content that everyone is going to. hero challenges should be soloed and maybe some meta events. but not the main map metas like golden city defense