Regretful Lion Store Purchase

[Buzzbugs.1236]

I purchased the Istani Isles—Mount Select License so I could get a particular mount skin I wanted. Now I've realized the license does not contain the skin I wanted, and there was no preview available before purchase so that I could have made an informed gems purchased!

I purchased my gems with gold transfer.

[yoni.7015]

Why don’t you inform yourself before you buy something? There is a wiki with a lot of information.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You could have previewed any/all Mounts Skins in the Hero Panel; (it will indicate which license(s) are used to obtain each Mount Skin). Or, checked the Wiki (from inside the game, or outside the game).If you've not used the license, you can contact the CS Team via the 'Support' link above/below and 'Submit a Ticket' for assistance.

Good luck.

[Game of Bones.8975]

It costs a bit more to buy one single skin, but you do get what you want.This is a story that we've heard time and again.If it doesn't say it in the description, it should say whether the items are "random" or "selectable from a list".

[Buzzbugs.1236]

I have put in a support ticket thank you

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:It costs a bit more to buy one single skin, but you do get what you want.This is a story that we've heard time and again.If it doesn't say it in the description, it should say whether the items are "random" or "selectable from a list".

It does. The trap is that there are two lists of mount skins: one that I'll call "classic", and one that I'll call "Istani". The Istani license items (random OR select-one) give only access to the "Istani" list, while the other (non-Istani) license items (single or 5-pack random) give access only to the "classic" list.

No mount skin is on both lists(1), and the OP wanted a "classic" list skin during a time when the "classic" license items are not available.

(1) Some are on neither list: Exo-suit, Wintersday, Branded, Doobly Demon for the Skimmer, Grand Lion for the Griffon, etc.

[DarthFurby.3970]

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:It costs a bit more to buy one single skin, but you do get what you want.This is a story that we've heard time and again.If it doesn't say it in the description, it

should

say whether the items are "random" or "selectable from a list".

It does. The trap is that there are two lists of mount skins: one that I'll call "classic", and one that I'll call "Istani". The Istani license items (random OR select-one) give only access to the "Istani" list, while the other (non-Istani) license items (single or 5-pack random) give access only to the "classic" list.

No mount skin is on both lists(1), and the OP wanted a "classic" list skin during a time when the "classic" license items are not available.

(1) Some are on neither list: Exo-suit, Wintersday, Branded, Doobly Demon for the Skimmer, Grand Lion for the Griffon, etc.

It isn't a trap, it's marketing. It doesn't say anywhere that any mount is on both lists, its pretty clear what you get from which list. It's rather simple to look through all possible mounts in game from the wardrobe preview screen and read the description of where they come from. That's if someone doesn't want to use the internet and look up what comes from where before blindly buying something.

[Elva.6372]

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:It costs a bit more to buy one single skin, but you do get what you want.This is a story that we've heard time and again.If it doesn't say it in the description, it

should

say whether the items are "random" or "selectable from a list".

It does. The trap is that there are two lists of mount skins: one that I'll call "classic", and one that I'll call "Istani". The Istani license items (random OR select-one) give only access to the "Istani" list, while the other (non-Istani) license items (single or 5-pack random) give access only to the "classic" list.

No mount skin is on both lists(1), and the OP wanted a "classic" list skin during a time when the "classic" license items are not available.

(1) Some are on neither list: Exo-suit, Wintersday, Branded, Doobly Demon for the Skimmer, Grand Lion for the Griffon, etc.

I find that ridiculously confusing, not your explanation which is great but my gawd!

I bought one of these things some time before the new license change and was confused with what I got -even after reading up on the wiki beforehand.

@"DarthFurby.3970" said:

It isn't a trap, it's marketing. It doesn't say anywhere that any mount is on both lists, its pretty clear what you get from which list. It's rather simple to look through all possible mounts in game from the wardrobe preview screen and read the description of where they come from. That's if someone doesn't want to use the internet and look up what comes from where before blindly buying something.

Oh come on!

Geez, the description could be better worded be clarified -is that so hard to concede?

Does every single thing have to be "git gud, hyuc hyuc" in this game?

The customer should not have to necessarily look up something on a wiki when using the in-game store -that would be a sign there's a deficiency in the product description.

[Randulf.7614]

It could be clearer in the tooltip that something isn't in store or may not be, yes. There is inconsistency with some items on this and the mounts pack could use improved wording for those not used to how Anet do things.

Ultimately if you haven't used the item then support are pretty helpful in this regard

[Zet.9130]

While vague product descriptions may increase sales I wonder if in the long run it just creates more work for Anet sorting out problems. It certainly doesn't foster goodwill. I look at anything at the Gem Store that relys on RNG and I move on. I'm not playing that game.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

@Elva.6372 said:

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:It costs a bit more to buy one single skin, but you do get what you want.This is a story that we've heard time and again.If it doesn't say it in the description, it

should

say whether the items are "random" or "selectable from a list".

It does. The trap is that there are two lists of mount skins: one that I'll call "classic", and one that I'll call "Istani". The Istani license items (random OR select-one) give only access to the "Istani" list, while the other (non-Istani) license items (single or 5-pack random) give access only to the "classic" list.

No mount skin is on both lists(1), and the OP wanted a "classic" list skin during a time when the "classic" license items are not available.

(1) Some are on neither list: Exo-suit, Wintersday, Branded, Doobly Demon for the Skimmer, Grand Lion for the Griffon, etc.

I find that ridiculously confusing, not your explanation which is great but my gawd!

I bought one of these things some time before the new license change and was confused with what I got -even after reading up on the wiki beforehand.

@"DarthFurby.3970" said:

It isn't a trap, it's marketing. It doesn't say anywhere that any mount is on both lists, its pretty clear what you get from which list. It's rather simple to look through all possible mounts in game from the wardrobe preview screen and read the description of where they come from. That's if someone doesn't want to use the internet and look up what comes from where before blindly buying something.

Oh come on!

Geez, the description could be better worded be clarified -is that so hard to concede?

Does every single thing have to be "git gud, hyuc hyuc" in this game?

The customer should not have to necessarily look up something on a wiki when using the in-game store -that would be a sign there's a deficiency in the product description.

Actually, a customer doing some research before a purchase is always a prudent thing. Not to cast dark aspersions on salesmen and -women, but do you always blindly take what they say as the (whole) truth? Unless you make unnecessarily convoluted descriptions of your products (you know, like legal documents), there will always be people who misinterpret the information given. I've seen people interpret the simplest of explanations in the most mind-bogglingly misguided ways, so you'll never be 100% covered, no matter how you describe/market your product. For me, personally, having 2 mount adoption licenses with their individual names (Mount Adoption License and Istani Isles Mount Adoption License) makes it pretty obvious I'm not dealing with the same product but 2 different ones. The differing number of licenses each entire collection contains would be a second obvious sign.

[Khisanth.2948]

I think what is incredibly stupid is that based on the description you can preview but only after you've bought the item. The TP gained the ability to preview things ages ago so why is it that the gemstore still can not?

The gemstore seems strangely neglected considering the fact that it is probably one of the biggest source of income for the game.

[Elva.6372]

@"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

Actually, a customer doing some research before a purchase is always a prudent thing. Not to cast dark aspersions on salesmen and -women, but do you always blindly take what they say as the (whole) truth? Unless you make unnecessarily convoluted descriptions of your products (you know, like legal documents), there will always be people who misinterpret the information given. I've seen people interpret the simplest of explanations in the most mind-bogglingly misguided ways, so you'll never be 100% covered, no matter how you describe/market your product. For me, personally, having 2 mount adoption licenses with their individual names (Mount Adoption License and Istani Isles Mount Adoption License) makes it pretty obvious I'm not dealing with the same product but 2 different ones. The differing number of licenses each entire collection contains would be a second obvious sign.

Hence the word "necessarily" but sure caveat emptor always a good rule to follow - but ANet made the mount thing overly complicated. I don't mind or care that it is random, but splitting it out where one product has some mounts and the other different one -that's what trips up peeps if they were select the wrong one.

Additionally, would have been helluva lot more straightforward to have Raptor, Hopper, Skimmer, Jackal and Gryphon mounts in their own random skin packages.

[Khisanth.2948]

Also why aren't the mounts using the same system as gliders? If you hover over the Beastslayer glider in the glider tab it tells you "Available for Purchase!" as opposed to something like the Magic Carpet glider which does not since it isn't in the store right now.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Elva.6372 said:Geez, the description could be better worded be clarified -is that so hard to concede?Sure, better descriptions are always better.All the same, is it so hard to concede that consumers can take responsibility for doing their own research?

The customer should not have to necessarily look up something on a wiki when using the in-game store -that would be a sign there's a deficiency in the product description.Not really. There's never been a product description that prevented confusion from all possible misinterpretations. Not everyone learns from reading, some people see what they want to see.If someone wants to make an informed decision, they should never rely solely on what the manufacturer says.

---

As a practical matter, we can ask ANet to update the text in the descriptions of the licenses, but we'll be waiting a long time for such a change (even if they agreed this minute, they'd have to get approval for the new wording, to make sure it's not misleading in a different way and they have to translate it into 4 other languages).

While we wait, we can update the text in the wiki, which would at least help those consumers who want to double check.

In either case, I haven't seen anyone in this thread propose specific wording. What would you want the wiki to say? What would you want the BLTC text description to read (given that there's probably a limit of 50 words or so).

[StinVec.3621]

@"Khisanth.2948" said:Also why aren't the mounts using the same system as gliders? If you hover over the Beastslayer glider in the glider tab it tells you "Available for Purchase!" as opposed to something like the Magic Carpet glider which does not since it isn't in the store right now.

I agree with you on the gem store neglectfulness you've noted here and further above.

Even the minis (and outfits) have this "Available for purchase" corner tag on their icon in your Miniatures Hero Panel tab when they or the package they are contained in is available on the gem store.

I'm actually surprised that they haven't added the "Available for purchase!" flag to gem store armor skins in the bank Wardrobe, or temporarily inserted the gem store armor skin icons with the Available tag into your Hero Panel Wardrobe tab when the skins are available for purchase - kind of like a "Looking to change your armor appearance? This skin is available to buy right now so try it on and see if you like it more than an appearance you already have!"

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

@Elva.6372 said:

@"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

Actually, a customer doing some research before a purchase is always a prudent thing. Not to cast dark aspersions on salesmen and -women, but do you always blindly take what they say as the (whole) truth? Unless you make unnecessarily convoluted descriptions of your products (you know, like legal documents), there will always be people who misinterpret the information given. I've seen people interpret the simplest of explanations in the most mind-bogglingly misguided ways, so you'll never be 100% covered, no matter how you describe/market your product. For me, personally, having 2 mount adoption licenses with their individual names (Mount Adoption License and Istani Isles Mount Adoption License) makes it pretty obvious I'm not dealing with the same product but 2 different ones. The differing number of licenses each entire collection contains would be a second obvious sign.

Hence the word "necessarily" but sure

caveat emptor

always a good rule to follow - but ANet made the mount thing overly complicated. I don't mind or care that it is random, but splitting it out where one product has some mounts and the other different one -that's what trips up peeps if they were select the wrong one.

Additionally, would have been helluva lot more straightforward to have Raptor, Hopper, Skimmer, Jackal and Gryphon mounts in their own random skin packages.

Complicated is a relative term, not an absolute figure that you can measure by. I don't see how 2 different product names can make someone think we're talking about the same product, but I guess that's just me then.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

I didn't find it complicated in the slightest

[starlinvf.1358]

@"Zet.9130" said:While vague product descriptions may increase sales I wonder if in the long run it just creates more work for Anet sorting out problems. It certainly doesn't foster goodwill. I look at anything at the Gem Store that relys on RNG and I move on. I'm not playing that game.

You'd be surprised with the laziness and/or addictive behavior of the general population. RNG loot boxes (the paid kind) have been around for several years, but only in the last year has it gotten a lot of negative attention from the public. Many just assume "things", and theres been an ever increasing number of complaints tied to the "specificity" of what they aren't getting from it.

Its even seen in the case of the OP, where hes obvious he knows about the controversy surrounding the mount skins, knew which item to take, but just assumed it has what he wants. No matter well worded it is, no matter how extensive and descriptive the UI can be made..... someone will undoubtedly make an assumption based on the fact that "real money = I am right", and when faced with multiple choices, not bother to question the limitations of those options.

But to be fair.... most cash shop games are out to nickle and dime you for all you're worth on the cash shop, and trick you into thinking you're getting a good deal as they fleece you. Anet isn't playing that game, and this makes the gem store what it is. And whenever they try their hand at it, its back fired in a big way. Which is why new mount skins come in themed packs, single legendary skins are $25 each, and its basically too late to unmess the original mount skins without resetting the system and refunding those who participated.

[Samnang.1879]

why i never have these problems? (serious question)... am not einstein or anything... but i just dont

[elrin.4750]

The confusing/misleading descriptions are intentional (what other explanation is there?). I was a victim when I was new to the game, so their strategy worked. I've wisen up tho, but those new players.... :(

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Drakortha.6974 said:I have put in a support ticket thank you

I was going to recommend this. The worst case scenario is they say no. Let us know if they give you a refund. Good luck. :)

[artemis.6781]

You couldn't find yourself to the wiki or forums before your purchase. But, once you become disheartened over your purchase, you found the wiki/forum? I hope your ticket gets answered, but a little research is always a good thing.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

Skin preview option should be available without the need of buying the mount OR it should be messaged IN GEMSTORE WINDOW that you can check which mounts are included in which license when checking wardrobe.

There is no obligation for any customer to acknowledge the existence of wiki, which is run by players, not anet anyway.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:There is no obligation for any customer to acknowledge the existence of wiki, which is run by players, not anet anyway.

That's like saying there's no obligation of a car buyer to read reviews from automotive websites or customers, since those are written by drivers, not the manufacturer — although true, it's moot. Anyone wishing to make an informed decision should avail themselves of, you know, available information.

Can ANet do better at their descriptions? Sure. Should they? I'd like them to, yes. But the discriminating consumer shouldn't rely on ANet alone.