I feel for you Necro players

[DragonFury.6243]

@Obtena.7952 said:No answer I can give you will change the ideas from that thread that demonstrate that breaking Nightfall to give projectile hate is a bad idea.

Though to be fair (in case you missed it) ... @Axl.8924 did point out in that same thread that RS ALREADY HAS this functionality.

@Axl.8924 said:You already have a ability in reaper to destroy projectiles:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Charge

I think there is some lesson here for you to learn your class and what it's capable of before complaining about Necro PVP performance and ripping on everyone that disagrees with your ideas about it.

i think you need to learn how to read first because i did mention "Death Charge"i hope to have a brain that reject other brain idea and in the same time dont have any ideas but i cant i already have a brain so sorry

[Obtena.7952]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No answer I can give you will change the ideas from that thread that demonstrate that breaking Nightfall to give projectile hate is a bad idea.

Though to be fair (in case you missed it) ... @Axl.8924 did point out in that same thread that RS

ALREADY HAS

this functionality.

@Axl.8924 said:You already have a ability in reaper to destroy projectiles:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Charge

I think there is some lesson here for you to learn your class and what it's capable of before complaining about Necro PVP performance and ripping on everyone that disagrees with your ideas about it.

i think you need to learn how to read first because i did mention "Death Charge"

Great, so this is just a skills issue then.

Sure you mentioned it ... that doesn't imply you are effectively using it or that Nightfall needs projectile hate. Like WE said, it's not a good idea. Get over it.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No answer I can give you will change the ideas from that thread that demonstrate that breaking Nightfall to give projectile hate is a bad idea.

Though to be fair (in case you missed it) ... @Axl.8924 did point out in that same thread that RS

ALREADY HAS

this functionality.

@Axl.8924 said:You already have a ability in reaper to destroy projectiles:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Charge

I think there is some lesson here for you to learn your class and what it's capable of before complaining about Necro PVP performance and ripping on everyone that disagrees with your ideas about it.

i think you need to learn how to read first because i did mention "Death Charge"

Great, so this is just a skills issue then.

Great so you really dont know how to read

[Obtena.7952]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No answer I can give you will change the ideas from that thread that demonstrate that breaking Nightfall to give projectile hate is a bad idea.

Though to be fair (in case you missed it) ... @Axl.8924 did point out in that same thread that RS

ALREADY HAS

this functionality.

@Axl.8924 said:You already have a ability in reaper to destroy projectiles:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Charge

I think there is some lesson here for you to learn your class and what it's capable of before complaining about Necro PVP performance and ripping on everyone that disagrees with your ideas about it.

i think you need to learn how to read first because i did mention "Death Charge"

Great, so this is just a skills issue then.

Great so you really dont know how to read

Reading is just fine ... you never said why you couldn't get Death Charge to work for you other than " reaper have only Death's Charge"

What impresses me the most is that it seemingly doesn't even occur to you that lacking something like this could be an intentional deficiency.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@"DragonFury.6243" said:

i know but when i asked for a projectiles hate for Nightfall almost all say no so i think most necro player is happy about the reaper farmed by ranged or that how i feel at least

Nightfall is overloaded as-is. Projectile destruction, if it is to be added, needs to go elsewhere.

That is literally what everyone has been saying against your suggestion. Nobody has said more anti-projectile defenses are unecessary, just that Nightfall is not the place to put it.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@"DragonFury.6243" said:

i know but when i asked for a projectiles hate for

Nightfall

almost all say no so i think most necro player is happy about the reaper farmed by ranged or that how i feel at least

Nightfall is overloaded as-is. Projectile destruction, if it is to be added, needs to go elsewhere.

That is literally what everyone has been saying against your suggestion. Nobody has said more anti-projectile defenses are unecessary, just that Nightfall is not the place to put it.

i did mention focus 4 Reaper's Touch but still no one want a projectiles hate for necromancer

[Lahmia.2193]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

i know but when i asked for a projectiles hate for

Nightfall

almost all say no so i think most necro player is happy about the reaper farmed by ranged or that how i feel at least

Nightfall is overloaded as-is. Projectile destruction, if it is to be added, needs to go elsewhere.

That is literally what everyone has been saying against your suggestion. Nobody has said more anti-projectile defenses are unecessary, just that Nightfall is not the place to put it.

i did mention focus 4 Reaper's Touch but still no one want a projectiles hate for necromancer

I guess you too ignored the suggestions in your thread like giving Well of Darkness projectile destruction or making Corrosive Poison Cloud more desirable on non condition builds.

[Shroud.2307]

Creativity is all you need. I used to roam almost exclusively on Necromancer pre-expansion(s) and since a couple months ago, I've started doing this again.

Defenses that don't scale combined with low mobility mean that you need to have extremely strong map awareness if you don't want to get zerged or heavily outnumbered. That said, getting zerged and ganked will happen no matter how aware you are, what profession you play or how good you are. It's just a fact of life when you're solo in a hostile world. The difference with playing Necromancer is that if you don't have an escape plan, at least 95% of the time you're going to die as soon as you're pressured.

Crafty use of Flesh Wurm, Spectral Walk, Sand Swell, Dark Path, Death's Charge and knowing the terrain you're fighting on is extremely important. Remember that you can use these things both offensively and defensively as well as a safety net. Above all though, be sure to use the terrain to your advantage. Force people to come in to your range and always be on the move. Unless you're confident you can kill your opponent quickly enough that there's no chance of others adding to the fight, you should always be trying to manipulate them in to staying within your reach. It's a tricky balance between knowing what mobility they have and whether or not they're the kind of person to dance with you. If they're smart enough not to fall for it, drop the fight completely and 99% of the time they'll come with you to a better location as you move. That's when you re-engage and retry the dance.

Necro kinda requires you to be the ring leader of a fight, especially when outnumbered, if you want to succeed. It's not a trait or a class mechanic but it is something you can learn and something that works against the vast majority of players. All it takes is time and patience to work out a reliable method of doing this. And on that subject, I used to know a Necro back during pre-HoT from [Crow] that would troll around Durios all day long. He would kite people around and under the bridge and always have a Wurm or Spectral Walk port prepared to LOS when he was getting pressured. And if he thought he needed it to kill someone or just to get some breathing room, he'd force people to chase him in to the water. That's the kind of fight leading I'm talking about.

[Obtena.7952]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

i know but when i asked for a projectiles hate for

Nightfall

almost all say no so i think most necro player is happy about the reaper farmed by ranged or that how i feel at least

Nightfall is overloaded as-is. Projectile destruction, if it is to be added, needs to go elsewhere.

That is literally what everyone has been saying against your suggestion. Nobody has said more anti-projectile defenses are unecessary, just that Nightfall is not the place to put it.

i did mention focus 4 Reaper's Touch but still no one want a projectiles hate for necromancer

I guess you too ignored the suggestions in your thread like giving Well of Darkness projectile destruction or making Corrosive Poison Cloud more desirable on non condition builds.

Or using the tools he already has access to as a Reaper to hate projectiles ....

[Lahmia.2193]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

i know but when i asked for a projectiles hate for

Nightfall

almost all say no so i think most necro player is happy about the reaper farmed by ranged or that how i feel at least

Nightfall is overloaded as-is. Projectile destruction, if it is to be added, needs to go elsewhere.

That is literally what everyone has been saying against your suggestion. Nobody has said more anti-projectile defenses are unecessary, just that Nightfall is not the place to put it.

i did mention focus 4 Reaper's Touch but still no one want a projectiles hate for necromancer

I guess you too ignored the suggestions in your thread like giving Well of Darkness projectile destruction or making Corrosive Poison Cloud more desirable on non condition builds.

Or using the tools he already has access to as a Reaper to hate projectiles ....

Indeed Death's Charge is so often overlooked as projectile hate.

[Hesacon.8735]

@Wisdom.4712 said:hmmm, is running blood magic more for group support or can you utilize some traits for personal sustainability?

It's mostly group support. You can use it to stack protection on wells for personal play (this is how I beat Ossa in Queen's Gauntlet), but its real use is getting people up with transfusion and ritual of life.

[Lexan.5930]

people have been clamoring for years that necro shroud is a "second heath bar" and "the best defensive mechanic in the game" but your right. It is a flimsy shield made from wet cake.

Necro has no blocks, no evade frames on any weapon skill or utility skill or elite skill or shroud skill. Necro has no invulnerability and on scourge there is no actual "second health bar"

core shroud and reaper shroud are damage sponge's that take as much damage as the necro does on top of degenning over time. If a warrior say had a constant health degen while in rampage mode then it might actually be worth comparing. Like go into a rampage and lose 2% of your health every second, Just imagine that.

There's very limited mobility and very limited traits. the biggest weakens for necro is range. Ranger with 1500 range and DE with 1200 range, stealth burst, and ranged stuns make them as easy choice to get necro kills. The other is shatter mesmers with greatsword at 1200 range, time 3 skills and hit 3 buttons to 1 shot most necro's easy.

Necro's need to be babysat or get a +1 in sPvP. Theres very little ways a necro can win in a 1v1. If your not doing well, run away with a mobility skill, wait for a stun cooldown, wait for them to use thier dodges and then CC and burst. Use lots of blinds and you'll have no problem mitigating their damage.

Yes necro has a problem not being as defensive as other class but at least a glassy reaper can burst about as much as a rampaging warrior, just has less CC but cause we can't throw a rock at you from 900 range to knock you over. Thats scourge torch 5 and it has a cast time and an easy tell.

wish we had at least 1 block. oh well at least reaper gets somewhat easy access to stab. Not as much as guard, warrior or ranger, but some,

[Rhyse.8179]

What if Shroud got it's release feature back where it could absorb ANY single hit? That'd give it a scaling defense to compensate for the massive power creep the game has had.

[KrHome.1920]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

[...]

Reaper used to be extremely good in WvW because of its versatility, but sadly what's happening is that all of the complaints from lower-skilled necromancers are becoming self-fulfilling because the spec is getting increasingly one-dimensional with fewer ways to actually build/trait to cover its weaknesses or play in ways to circumvent them.Maybe you are the one who is lower skilled and onedimensional as you say the one and only build that was viable to you got nerfed und you dropped the whole class which was clearly buffed as you can't find alternatives.

All that wall of text full of random insults just because you got 17% less crit chance in Death Perception. Incredible. If you relied on crit in shroud that much before you were simply a one trick pony and obviously never met anyone that kited your shroudburst, resulting in negating pretty much your whole damage.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

[...]

Reaper used to be extremely good in WvW because of its versatility, but sadly what's happening is that all of the complaints

from lower-skilled necromancers

are becoming self-fulfilling because the spec is getting increasingly one-dimensional with fewer ways to actually build/trait to cover its weaknesses or play in ways to circumvent them.Maybe you are the one who is lower skilled and onedimensional as you say the one and only build that was viable to you got nerfed und you dropped the whole class which was clearly buffed as you can't find alternatives.

All that wall of text full of random insults just because you got 17% less crit chance in Death Perception. Incredible. If you relied on crit in shroud that much before you were simply a one trick pony and obviously never met anyone that kited your shroudburst, resulting in negating pretty much your whole damage.

This entire time necro's had the tools to deal with almost everything in the game. Like I said, I was destroying Daredevils in the 1v1 matchup since day 1 on this class despite the overwhelming mass of complaints saying that Reaper sucked due to the sheer existence of a single counter in Daredevil, how the spec was useless for having no mobility, and so on.

On the old forums, there are a lot of posts referencing my tips to become better with a lot of people seeing extensive improvement to their gameplay once following my advice. And a lot of people refusing that it was good advice. And many of those people continue to not find success. There are users here who are at the very high ranks who just outright credit me for learning to play this class well into opposing matchups and take advantage of its strengths. Old changes I complained of got me shunned, and now a number of top reapers agree with most of what I've said.

This patch was a buff to people running Marauder + SR into foes with no answers to reaper. That's literally it. But that was from a numerical perspective already seen as a relatively weak choice to follow, especially in WvW where one could sit on 700 more power, 3k more health, and way more damage in traits with absolutely zero loss elsewhere while running a plethora of other options/builds - and for the record, I don't even run Decimate Defenses and have thought it as a bad trait outside of PvE since reaper's release. I wonder about how people would react if we just downright removed fury and might from the game. That's effectively what this change did to the build I run. Which was, strictly speaking, consistent and good.

My primary complaint in recent major patches has been exactly that reaper has moved into a burst-or-bust spec with its continued increases to damage and continued nerfs to its durability. That forces people more and more to play into being a one-trick burst build. Coming from D/D thief which is the absolute epitome of this - it's NOT a good place to end up - you end up way too weak as time goes on, as counterplay evolves, and as your opponents get increasingly better the more you push it and challenge yourself.

The changes incurred this patch also make the reaper extremely easy to shut down with most comps; boon denial is everywhere, and now a good scourge can pretty much keep a reaper perma-slowed, a thief ends up with huge amounts of quickness from BT and LS which obviously hurts it, and spellbreaker/mesmer's removal just improves their matchup, because prior, 15% was better than 0%.

Which is the basis for my complaint about both the changes to VP and RO: They continue to make the reaper inconsistent because of external factors that directly affect the reaper itself. One could make better analysis about a fight while engaging in combat initially and create win conditions they could depend on, whereas now, the agency is mostly handed over to one's opponent with reaper just being a walking object that either gets counterplayed or facerolls its opponent.

I've already found current-mathematically optimal alternative builds - they're just worse still by a substantial margin across the board. The other issue is that I just don't have the gold to convert nearly every piece of gear I have + buy new accessories, and since I don't PvE, would depend on me playing WvW with a build that is now inconsistent into skilled opponents and strictly weak at blobbing/hardcountered by the meta due to the changes.

[Nimon.7840]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

i know but when i asked for a projectiles hate for

Nightfall

almost all say no so i think most necro player is happy about the reaper farmed by ranged or that how i feel at least

Nightfall is overloaded as-is. Projectile destruction, if it is to be added, needs to go elsewhere.

That is literally what everyone has been saying against your suggestion. Nobody has said more anti-projectile defenses are unecessary, just that Nightfall is not the place to put it.

i did mention focus 4 Reaper's Touch but still no one want a projectiles hate for necromancer

I guess you too ignored the suggestions in your thread like giving Well of Darkness projectile destruction or making Corrosive Poison Cloud more desirable on non condition builds.

Or using the tools he already has access to as a Reaper to hate projectiles ....

Indeed Death's Charge is so often overlooked as projectile hate.

But it's also very buggy.Last time I tested it, it only destroyed projectiles coming directly from an enemy standing in front of you.The slightest angle between charge direction and enemy shots and they will hit you

[Burnfall.9573]

@"Wisdom.4712" said:Not tongue in cheek.

Necro is probably my least played class out of the 9 with me dabbling in Scourge and Reaper for a bit when the expansions dropped. I was always turned off by the lack of damage mitigation in the form of blocks, invuln blah blah blah..you've heard it all before. However, with the most recent buffs, I decided to give power Reaper a go in WvW just to see what the state of the spec was. After playing for a week or so all I can say is...I'm sorry. I don't know how anyone stays alive for more than 5-7 seconds in a skirmish or 1v1. Shroud dwindles faster than my attention span during an economics lecture. I'm sure my inexperience is playing a role, but as a vet of the game with proficiency in the general mechanics, I can safely say that whatever buffs Power Reaper received just isn't cutting it.

Thank You!

http://cdn1.litlepups.net/resize/2017/02/22/medium-kitten-kissing-a-dog-s-nose-cats-kiss-animals-dogs-art.jpg

[Sephylon.4938]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

i know but when i asked for a projectiles hate for

Nightfall

almost all say no so i think most necro player is happy about the reaper farmed by ranged or that how i feel at least

Nightfall is overloaded as-is. Projectile destruction, if it is to be added, needs to go elsewhere.

That is literally what everyone has been saying against your suggestion. Nobody has said more anti-projectile defenses are unecessary, just that Nightfall is not the place to put it.

i did mention focus 4 Reaper's Touch but still no one want a projectiles hate for necromancer

I guess you too ignored the suggestions in your thread like giving Well of Darkness projectile destruction or making Corrosive Poison Cloud more desirable on non condition builds.

Or using the tools he already has access to as a Reaper to hate projectiles ....

Indeed Death's Charge is so often overlooked as projectile hate.

But it's also very buggy.Last time I tested it, it only destroyed projectiles coming directly from an enemy standing in front of you.The slightest angle between charge direction and enemy shots and they will hit you

I've noticed this too, shooting a charging reaper slightly to the left ignores their projectile hate. They'll also tend to not follow me while charging so its very easy to sidestep and continue to pewpew them.

[Ashikuro.1920]

This thread makes necros sound so squishy and weak... but then I see the unkillable necro spec on YouTube and its insanely OP. Which is it? I'm genuinely confused now.

[Obtena.7952]

@Ashikuro.1920 said:This thread makes necros sound so squishy and weak... but then I see the unkillable necro spec on YouTube and its insanely OP. Which is it? I'm genuinely confused now.

What it is ... is the difference between players and their opponents, not the class. There is a truth that is commonly overlooked that is very sensitive and hard to convey without getting into personal 'attacks' is that some people aren't good at playing certain classes. Obviously to avoid that negative interaction, you assume a reasonable capability of people when they complain about performance. On the flip side, it becomes clear pretty quickly those players who are the have's and the have-not's when you see a thread and how people are expressing their ideas about what is wrong and how to fix them.

What I have noticed, especially in well-balanced classes is that you get threads where some people think the class is absolute trash, then you get an equal number of people wondering WTH those malcontents are talking about. That's usually a hint there are reasonably equal numbers of people that succeed and succeed against that class are there are those that fail and fail against that class.

[Zero.3871]

@"Ashikuro.1920" said:This thread makes necros sound so squishy and weak... but then I see the unkillable necro spec on YouTube and its insanely OP. Which is it? I'm genuinely confused now.

1.) on YouTube you only see People who Show their wins, not their Fails.2.) in this win Videos you see everytime opponents that...2a.)...dont stun the necro.2b.)...dont range pressure but facetank stupidly the necro.2c.)...Play mostly zergbuilds and are not prepared for any small scale fights.

you will finally find those Videos for absolutely EVERY class. just watch the 10 Minute Video of a thief that stands in a 30 man zerg of the enemies and dont die because of perma dodge…

i just suggest you to fight with a reaper against a soulbeast that hits you with 6000 dmg on 2000 range on AA. everytime you try to push him he use his 2 x 1000 range leaps (10 sec cd) to kite you. everytime you try to Escape they use their mobility to come in the 2000 range distance where they just spam 1 to kill you. no counterplay exist, no Chance to win.

or Play against mesmers that port from 1500+ range with 2 skills to your position shatter you with 30k+ dmg WHILE being invul, and if you dodge that spike they just use the next 2-3 teleports/leaps to jump out of your range. they are invul all the time while they are in range to you. you cannot catch them cause they are faster than you, too. they can repeat that 100 times, no Chance to hit him because of the invulns. and if you make 1 mistake you are dead.

or just fight DE. perma invis, than you see him 1/2 sec while he is casting DJ on you from 1500 range (out of range for you) and instantly dodge back for perma invis again. since you dotn have reveal there is no Chance to attack him without godlike predictions where he is. and only AOEs can hit him, and you know, staff is not that great dmg weapon…

than you will see how "strong" necro is.

[needbeer.1687]

dont know what youre talking about. i won a 5 vs me in wvw a few days ago on my reaper.

[Catchyfx.5768]

necro is deadly if you jump out of nowhere and you are in some chokepoint (bridge, between structures) then is pretty ez kill 5 ppl outside of that LUCKY YOU man :) GJ

[Nimon.7840]

@needbeer.1687 said:dont know what youre talking about. i won a 5 vs me in wvw a few days ago on my reaper.

Reaper is pretty good in killing noobs

[Teratus.2859]

Well shroud is based on health (Vitality) and buffed by Soul Reaping traits, add to that if i'm not mistaken Reaper shroud actually diminishes faster than standard shroud does..

Factor in when running power Reaper a lot of people just run the usual Zerker stat rawwrr smash all the things kind of build and it's hardly surprising shroud gets ripped away from you so quickly.

I've got 2 Necros that i'm very fond of.. both reapers and both technically power focused builds.I have no complaints about either of them.