Hearts and Minds: What were you thinking?

[Dante.1763]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Faffin.6741 said:The ally encounters should have been checkpointed, or a separate instance, so they don't have to be repeated if you fail, or disconnect, or bug, and Mordremoth should be easier. This fight is such a step up in difficulty, and so twitch dependant it amazes me it was released in the form it's in. It's like they bought in the fractal team to do it. If people want a challenge there are raids and t4 + motes.

It's a good thing that fight isnt challenging then.

To you. Look i get it, i dont find the fights hard either, but you arent everyone, and not everyone has the same or will ever have the same level of skill as other players. On top of that, you have the random bugs that are annoying as hell and can cause you to restart the entire instance randomly. You cant just revive and continue the fight which if i recall correctly even anet said was a problem, and bringing other players isnt always the solution either especially if they too are having issues with the instance.

Bugs have nothing to do with if a fight is challenging.If you find simple problem solving challenging then i personally have to question why you're playing a game to begin with. You might want to move into less interactive mediums for entertainment.

Simple problem solving in this case would be what?Suddenly being forced to change your build/armor after using it for all of HoT up to that point successfully which the OP did, is not a failure on the players part(now they did admit that they MAY have turned migraine on, which makes this instance in particular extremely hard.) regardless, even knowing the solution is not a satisfying solution to alot of players. Not everyone can afford to make a new set of armor each time they face something that their gear suddenly doesnt work for which is failure on the game design portion.

[TwiceDead.1963]

If you struggle with something... Change your approach.

In some cases bashing your face against the wall might break it after a while, but that's a needlessly painful process. Bring a tool to help out instead.

[Muusic.2967]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:

Gamers in 1978: "The boss is super hard, guess I will change the code." :)

Gamers in 1958: "Can someone take this lawn dart out of my foot?"

Considering that the "Asteroids" quarter-fed game wasn't released until 1979, I don't think there was a lot of code to change in 1978.

Still phreaking into BBS boards had the same whining in 1988: This wardialer is too hard, time to buy another hacked phone pin.

[TexZero.7910]

@Dante.1763 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@"Faffin.6741" said:The ally encounters should have been checkpointed, or a separate instance, so they don't have to be repeated if you fail, or disconnect, or bug, and Mordremoth should be easier. This fight is such a step up in difficulty, and so twitch dependant it amazes me it was released in the form it's in. It's like they bought in the fractal team to do it. If people want a challenge there are raids and t4 + motes.

It's a good thing that fight isnt challenging then.

To you. Look i get it, i dont find the fights hard either, but you arent everyone, and not everyone has the same or will ever have the same level of skill as other players. On top of that, you have the random bugs that are annoying as hell and can cause you to restart the entire instance randomly. You cant just revive and continue the fight which if i recall correctly even anet said was a problem, and bringing other players isnt always the solution either especially if they too are having issues with the instance.

Bugs have nothing to do with if a fight is challenging.If you find simple problem solving challenging then i personally have to question why you're playing a game to begin with. You might want to move into less interactive mediums for entertainment.

Simple problem solving in this case would be what?Suddenly being forced to change your build/armor after using it for all of HoT up to that point successfully which the OP did, is not a failure on the players part(now they did admit that they

MAY

have turned migraine on, which makes this instance in particular extremely hard.) regardless, even knowing the solution is not a satisfying solution to

alot

of players. Not everyone can afford to make a new set of armor each time they face something that their gear suddenly doesnt work for which is failure on the game design portion.

Uh what even are you on about. The threshold for success in all of the story instances is simply to do the mechanics. You do that and you will get through the instance. If people cannot recognize paterns, don't listen to the NPC call outs and cannot figure out not to stand in fire that is not a fault of the developement team nor does it mean things "got harder". Heck one could easily argue things bosses being about mechanics made things easier as there's no real need to play the hit it harder than it hits you game because there's 0 time limits forcing you to do things or fail.

[otto.5684]

Is this why we currently have lame bosses with nearly non-existent mechanics and instant rese? Cuz it is not a question of difficulty, but story bosses have taken a serious nose dive in quality.

The only interesting fight since PoF release was Belthazar, the first one over the hill. Everything else has been a boring slug fest.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Kavian.6729 said:

@Jarl Petter Hinrik.1409 said:Never finished that one either. Screamed so much at my computer... Happy no one was home. It was really

kitten

(a big angry one with super pointy claws!).

One day, I might study the mechanics, but it sucks to have to do that, it feels like cheating. We need more tutorials to figure out ways to deal with these kinds of bosses without having to rely on wikis and youtube videos from external sources...

After trying for an hour. I said screw it. I understand fractals need to be difficult but this is a story instance.

Fractal fights are probably much more polished than any story fight.

[Sarpan.9074]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Gamers in 1998: "The boss is super hard, does anyone have any good strategy to beat it?"Gamers in 2018: "The boss is super hard, so the developers are sadists"

Gamers in 1988: "Hey, can you copy the cheat onto my diskette, buddy?" ;)

@"Wyrd.1432" said:I'm a casual player, so I suppose HoT storyline completion is not for me. I've tried Hearts and Minds several times solo and just now with a five-member group, and it's still proving tediously difficult to get past the first boss and there's two more to face after that?

We are having this discussion repeatedly with story missions that look difficult at first. Learn the mechanics, then it's easy to beat. Always.

Also, in Hearts and Minds, you can choose which two fights you will face by selecting the respective NPCs from your group. It's hard to believe no one in your full party had any info on that or knew what to do. I've never had that issue, and I always do Hearts and Minds with a team of 2-5 people.

Gamers in 1968: "Mom! Tommy threw the Monopoly board across the room again!!"

[Trejgon.9367]

I did the aforementioned instance solo twice, both in exotic gear, first time with no knowledge on the mechanics, and second one struggled mostly for achievements.

first one was in druid, the other was in halftrained dragonhunter.and I like to think of myself as casual player ;)

[Myrdreth.6829]

I am a casual player too and went into the fight with 4 others. 3 of them died at the very beginning and the other one and I beat the boss alone...it was exhausting, but very rewarding. I am still very proud of it ^^ Next time I would only try to beat that boss with members of my guild and not a random group.

[Cyninja.2954]

There is multiple guides on YouTube for this, and any other instance. It ogten comes down to only copying what some one else does.

Now on to the mordremoth fight:It's all about movement and knowing which things need avoiding and where to position. Yes there is a lot of flashy stuff and effects flying around and dying will reset the fight.

That said, the actual amount of things which need avoiding is minimal:

• don't stand in the blue ground aoe lines
• don't stand in front of him when he cleaves
• don't stand to far from him or outside the inner circle when he does his aoe
• don't stand on the two side areas which get destroyed

That's basically it. His attacks are slow, the npcs he summons do very little damage, his melee cone attack can easily be walked out of.

The most annoying part about this fight is that IF you die you have to restart. That's it.

If nothing else helps, practice a bit and then throw on some boosters (you know the ones you keep saving in your bank), use some buff food (there is great evasion food or healing food) and go at it solo.

Or get 1-4 people to join you, the instance does not scale up, and wreck him.

This fight is really not that hard, people just freak out and do not use everything at their disposal. The fight can be cleared in rares if need be (I have cleared the fight in masterwork greens on some classes). So if you are wearing exotic gear, a little practice and proper preparation will do the trick.

[Gehenna.3625]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Wyrd.1432 said:I found PoF was not exactly optimal with a guardian.

First, you don't need any kind of Ascended to finish the story instances.Second, did you finish Path of Fire? Including beating Balthazar? Because if you did finish Path of Fire on your Firebrand and have issues with pre-Mordremoth bosses in Hearts and Minds that means it was DEFINITELY Migraine version and not the normal one, as all those bosses are really easy compared to Balthazar (or the War Beast)

Huh, I found Balthazar to be the easiest fight in the PoF story line...

[TheJokester.4672]

Lliadri

Enough said the rest of the game is not that hard.... and even lliadri when you learned mechanics, became doable, but still challenging as all get out. Story instances have never phased me regardless of class and I'm very casual.

[ReV.6097]

I'm pretty casual, don't do raids or pvp. Only WvW and PvE.The last story I managd to do, alone on my Power Reaper (Power/Precis/Feroc) , all exotics, even the GS and staff.Died once or twice due to my own idiocy and not getting the right jumps in during the "get to the air and fly from his attack" phase, and another during the fight against Eir.Beyond that, it wasn't bad. Was suprised about the fight reseting, but it only pushed me to try harder and remember my mistakes.

Not sure if boss scaling had anything to do with your problem though, but I assumed that it required more than a 5 party team to make the Boss's tougher, to scale the fight fairly (sometimes making the fight unnecessarily longer and rougher if one or two of you are being carried threw the fight).

[Zaoda.1653]

I tried to get the Migraine achievement with a team multiple times. We couldn't do it, and gave up in the end. It's still the last achievement I need in that group of achievements for the Mordrem Loop ascended amulet, but it's pretty much impossible, so... it's just another thing that's never going to happen for me. Such is life.

[Hot Boy.7138]

i really like and miss the difficulty in HoT

[robzmom.8137]

Thanks to Cyninja.2954 for giving specific advice. Now, I admit, I can't do the advice and have failed Hearts and Minds many times both solo and in a group. In group attempts , I end up in the box and get no credit when they win. In an odd way, I feel better to read the thread and realize the episode is beyond me for whatever reason. (and Yes, I have soloed POF and finished all those fights.)

[ugrakarma.9416]

Mordy atack are very predictable, and he is also slow..

U must check if u group are accidentaly clicking on challenge mote and activating the "hell mode".

Its weird someone can beat Warbeast/Balthazar and cant beat Mordy.... Balthazar had tons of AoE.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Zaoda.1653" said:I tried to get the Migraine achievement with a team multiple times. We couldn't do it, and gave up in the end. It's still the last achievement I need in that group of achievements for the Mordrem Loop ascended amulet, but it's pretty much impossible, so... it's just another thing that's never going to happen for me. Such is life.

i did it before, but required 20 tries+.. also a mesmer in our group has know a safe spot on fly phase (ye we "cheated"), on at the tip of a tree branch. A minion master is a must-have in the group.......... but I think with the PoF classes it's even easier.

[Sinistral.5309]

I got lost half way down the first page with all the derailments, but is most of this thread about challenge mode? Because if it is, i think something gotta be done about canach, i mean, normal mode is easy as hell, but this?

To explain: in his 2nd immunity phase at 50%, his breakbar is like 5x the size from 1st stage, instantly refills back to full the second you stop CC, and is IMPOSSIBLE to break solo.Tried for at least 5 hours today, Eir went down easy once i remembered to actually cc break when garm roots you, but no matter what i tried, there is just no breaking Canach's cc bar, which btw is required, as he takes something like 90% less damage until you do (Which in itself is absolute BS).

Tried everything i could think of on my mesmer, even something as insane as double sword #4 + double gs #5 + triple Signet of Midnight, + signet of Inspiration/Gravity Well (using continuum split and mimic trickery) only shaves 75% off it, which of course then just instantly refills....Nothing else left to throw at it, apprently slows have zero effect on it, cant use F3 because its used/needed for split, so out of ideas.

Considering this instance is in dragon's stand, probably the most loathed map in HoT, and also the most desolate, getting a group for this achiev is nigh impossible to be honest, so...having the dedication/patience to attempt it solo, get half way, then be rewarded with failure, in a damn STORY instance, is utter kitten.

Honestly trying to decide if i should even keep playing right now, i mean it seems everything is just so solo unfriendly, once you step out of open-world stuff, which gets old really fast.

[Cyninja.2954]

@"Sinistral.5309" said:I got lost half way down the first page with all the derailments, but is most of this thread about challenge mode? Because if it is, i think something gotta be done about canach, i mean, normal mode is easy as hell, but this?

To explain: in his 2nd immunity phase at 50%, his breakbar is like 5x the size from 1st stage, instantly refills back to full the second you stop CC, and is IMPOSSIBLE to break solo.Tried for at least 5 hours today, Eir went down easy once i remembered to actually cc break when garm roots you, but no matter what i tried, there is just no breaking Canach's cc bar, which btw is required, as he takes something like 90% less damage until you do (Which in itself is absolute BS).

Tried everything i could think of on my mesmer, even something as insane as double sword #4 + double gs #5 + triple Signet of Midnight, + signet of Inspiration/Gravity Well (using continuum split and mimic trickery) only shaves 75% off it, which of course then just instantly refills....Nothing else left to throw at it, apprently slows have zero effect on it, cant use F3 because its used/needed for split, so out of ideas.

Considering this instance is in dragon's stand, probably the most loathed map in HoT, and also the most desolate, getting a group for this achiev is nigh impossible to be honest, so...having the dedication/patience to attempt it solo, get half way, then be rewarded with failure, in a kitten STORY instance, is utter kitten.

Honestly trying to decide if i should even keep playing right now, i mean it seems everything is just so solo unfriendly, once you step out of open-world stuff, which gets old really fast.

Hearts and Minds challenge mode done solo by an Engineer (Eir and Canach):

Yes, getting a group of random people together might be challenging today since this is over 3 year old content. For me the best approach was always to ask in guild if anyone needs the achievement or is willing to help. That's how I got my achievement and where I helped others.

[Sinistral.5309]

Yeah...condi engi in full ascended vipers lol, and he just powers through the damage reduction and ignores the breakbar...which kind of proves my point doesn't it.

Also im pretty sure that video is before all the nerfs (2015), as 5k bleed ticks through all his damage reduction? Not gonna happen.My trailblazers mirage couldn't even hit 1k ticks, if i remember correctly, ArcDPS had something like ~540dps....lol. Although some of that could be to do with the fact i was forced to go staff/staff due to him knockback spamming me everytime i go near him, making axe/torch/pistol a no-go.

Also tried power chrono, slightly better due to ranged GS, but same deal with the stupid damage reduction (as if GS wasn't terrible enough already), and with all his stun-spam and way overpowered insta-20-stacks-of-burn grenades, anyone would literally fall asleep before he hit 40%.

I should also note, i am not in a guild, nor do i even have a single person on the ol' friends list. Besides, it's not exactly easy for some people to even ask for anyones help, i myself have social anxiety, so i probably wouldn't even answer if anyone offered/asked for a party in-game.

The only other character i have that has access to that instance is a necro, and im not even going to try, he has no cc breaks at all, and no way to shed aggro from garm, so wouldn't even be able to get past Eir (Yeah i've actually tried with him, once).Funny thing is, i do have an engi, with holosmith unlocked, but hasn't even started the HoT story, i'm actually still doing his personal story, finding the willpower to sit through the second half a 5th? time is....draining.

It's not just this instance either, every single MMO i've ever played i go out of my way to do the "undoable", simply because i have no other way of enjoying the true end-game stuff (outside of raiding etc, which is expected, and totally fine), usually my late goal is solo every single dungeon, except here...that's pointless as they're abandoned, so i looked at fractals... did the first one, ok, boss was....tiresome, completed simply because of mesmer clones helping to break his shield, 2nd and 3rd were easy once you know how, then came the swamp...found out its mechanically impossible, even though i've seen videos of people "soloing" the boss, how they managed to get past the whisps is beyond me, be in 3 places at once? speed-hacking? hell if i know, so said ok, can't do those either, guess i'll just go achievement hunting...and here i am, another brick wall.

Hopefully that last paragraph sums up my frustration a little, But now its 6am so im going to bed.

[Sinistral.5309]

Well the plot thickens, took some advice from the video and just powered through ignoring his breakbar, but guess what, now he takes 0 damage from everything after his 50% phase, for some reason (Yes, i mean literally, all damage numbers are '0'), ANet's idea of a bad joke? probably.

I give up. You can keep your mordrem loop, and your AP.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Wyrd.1432 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Gamers in 1998: "The boss is super hard, does anyone have any good strategy to beat it?"Gamers in 2018: "The boss is super hard, so the developers are sadists"

This is not a thread for the "muh challenge" crowd.

Its a change of audience.In the past, games were for people who sought challenge. Adventure. Difficulty.

These days, a large chunk of audience has been replaced by 'casual' gamers, people who want to relax and be entertained with little difficulty.In most games, it's impossible to cater to both parties without making serious sacrifices.GW2 for example caters heavily to players who don't want to put in much effort in to learning the game. Mistakes are being forgiven, and story is very lenient.Bosses hyped up like Balthazar, the supposed god of war, was a very poor combatant, to make sure everyone could beat him

[Cuks.8241]

Firsy time with my full zerk berzerker warrior in exotics. Didnt even find it difficult. Didnt think much of it.The second time it was much harder with glass weaver, was kinda surprised. But I went with Eir. I think her version is hardest.SB ranger, easy.

[Vayne.8563]

If you're still having trouble and you're on a US server, I can take you through it, and show you how to get past certain bosses. It won't even take as long as you think. Just message me in game.