Gaile Gray, where are you?

[Maikimaik.1974]

@phokus.8934 said:Let’s be clear. ANet fired her and not NCSoft.

In almost every restructure the most tenured, most expensive, and non-essential employees are at the top of the list to be let go. She’s been with ANet for 18 years and was a community manager who was most likely making the very high end of that salary band. Yes she had a deep rooted history but that means nothing when it comes to dollars and cents. Someone else will fill her shoes and life will continue on.

After reading quite a few threads it’s as if the majority of people here have never had a job/career before. Welcome to the real world.

I live in a country with an enormous amount of laws protecting employees. Lay offs do happen here, but they're very regulated and can only happen for a small number of reasons. Employers are actually not allowed to just lay off some employees, they have to prove that the employee they want to lay off is worse than all their other employees. And even if they're able to prove that, the employees have to be notified about their dismissal several months before they have to go.I think it's quite shocking that somebody who has been employed for such a long time is even more likely to be laid off than somebody who's pretty new. It's usually the other way around where I live, as you're almost impossible to be laid off after you've been employed for a certain amount of time. Depending on the job, this can be as early as 17 years.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

Bye Gaile. Thank you for all the work you have put into it. I will miss you. :(

[phokus.8934]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@"phokus.8934" said:Let’s be clear. ANet fired her and not NCSoft.

In almost every restructure the most tenured, most expensive, and non-essential employees are at the top of the list to be let go. She’s been with ANet for 18 years and was a community manager who was most likely making the very high end of that salary band. Yes she had a deep rooted history but that means nothing when it comes to dollars and cents. Someone else will fill her shoes and life will continue on.

After reading quite a few threads it’s as if the majority of people here have never had a job/career before. Welcome to the real world.

I disagree this is "clear"

We don't know she was fired. She could have volunteered as a few did. She could have been offered something different and not accepted it. Also her salary band is not necs relevant given as a non developer she had no real input and direction in the day to day development or running of the game, I can't imagine her pay was significantly high compared to those who did. She liaised with the community and helped with support and moderation. The decision could have been because they simply do not want that role any more or maybe NCSoft want to handle all community liaisons directly from themselves and they recommended/demanded lay offs in this area.

Having experienced mass lay offs in the "real world" what actually happens behind the scenes is often completely different to what people expect/speculate/are led to believe, especially when the majority of the info comes from media outlets who usually are misinformed or report only on what they wish to.

Basically, nothing is clear and everything is guess work and speculation. We know extremely little

I guess you didn't fully read my first sentence in the clear part is that ANet did the firing, not NCSoft. Regardless if she left or was fired, there's absolutely relevancy with her salary. It's part of operating costs and is calculated in yearly budgets.

I agree we know little but to say NCSoft did the firing is flat out wrong.

[Randulf.7614]

@phokus.8934 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:Let’s be clear. ANet fired her and not NCSoft.

In almost every restructure the most tenured, most expensive, and non-essential employees are at the top of the list to be let go. She’s been with ANet for 18 years and was a community manager who was most likely making the very high end of that salary band. Yes she had a deep rooted history but that means nothing when it comes to dollars and cents. Someone else will fill her shoes and life will continue on.

After reading quite a few threads it’s as if the majority of people here have never had a job/career before. Welcome to the real world.

I disagree this is "clear"

We don't know she was fired. She could have volunteered as a few did. She could have been offered something different and not accepted it. Also her salary band is not necs relevant given as a non developer she had no real input and direction in the day to day development or running of the game, I can't imagine her pay was significantly high compared to those who did. She liaised with the community and helped with support and moderation. The decision could have been because they simply do not want that role any more or maybe NCSoft want to handle all community liaisons directly from themselves and they recommended/demanded lay offs in this area.

Having experienced mass lay offs in the "real world" what actually happens behind the scenes is often completely different to what people expect/speculate/are led to believe, especially when the majority of the info comes from media outlets who usually are misinformed or report only on what they wish to.

Basically, nothing is clear and everything is guess work and speculation. We know extremely little

I guess you didn't fully read my first sentence in the clear part is that ANet did the firing, not NCSoft. Regardless if she left or was fired, there's absolutely relevancy with her salary. It's part of operating costs and is calculated in yearly budgets.

I agree we know little but to say NCSoft did the firing is flat out wrong.

Why is flat out wrong?

[sinsrock.1702]

wow.. I don't really know what to say.. I remember meeting her for the first time on Pink day in LA when I was 11 Y/o this is really upsetting news to say the least. good luck on your travels you will be missed.

[RIN.1659]

i'm so confused I saw the post from the 24th saying your on vactionnow this I have played G. w. / G. w. 2 for years now I have over 30,000 hours of game play inand you have been there all this time now I just don't know what in the kittens is going onwhat is going on do I go on playing the one game I in joy and hope every thing is going to be fineor do I start looking for some thing new I place this all on NC soft let the CEO get his KITTEN on this forumand let the real player base that puts the $$$ in his wallet know #$%^&*

[Thea Cherry.6327]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:The sad thing is, Gaile Gray was the only living proof that at least 1 anet employee reads the forums. With them gone, we no longer have any way of knowing anyone else working at anet knows there’s a forum

Hm McKenna and Gertz have been active in the EU forums the past years... well they have been let go too.

[Arsenic Ravensknell.7963]

@Thea Cherry.6327 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:The sad thing is, Gaile Gray was the only living proof that at least 1 anet employee reads the forums. With them gone, we no longer have any way of knowing anyone else working at anet knows there’s a forum

Hm McKenna and Gertz have been active in the EU forums the past years... well they have been let go too.

Thea, I decided to go ahead and try to organize that meet up we'd discussed. I'd love for you to come.

Here's the thread for anyone interested: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/69881/lets-show-arenanet-our-love-and-support#latest

[battledrone.8315]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:Let’s be clear. ANet fired her and not NCSoft.

In almost every restructure the most tenured, most expensive, and non-essential employees are at the top of the list to be let go. She’s been with ANet for 18 years and was a community manager who was most likely making the very high end of that salary band. Yes she had a deep rooted history but that means nothing when it comes to dollars and cents. Someone else will fill her shoes and life will continue on.

After reading quite a few threads it’s as if the majority of people here have never had a job/career before. Welcome to the real world.

I disagree this is "clear"

We don't know she was fired. She could have volunteered as a few did. She could have been offered something different and not accepted it. Also her salary band is not necs relevant given as a non developer she had no real input and direction in the day to day development or running of the game, I can't imagine her pay was significantly high compared to those who did. She liaised with the community and helped with support and moderation. The decision could have been because they simply do not want that role any more or maybe NCSoft want to handle all community liaisons directly from themselves and they recommended/demanded lay offs in this area.

Having experienced mass lay offs in the "real world" what actually happens behind the scenes is often completely different to what people expect/speculate/are led to believe, especially when the majority of the info comes from media outlets who usually are misinformed or report only on what they wish to.

Basically, nothing is clear and everything is guess work and speculation. We know extremely little

I guess you didn't fully read my first sentence in the clear part is that ANet did the firing, not NCSoft. Regardless if she left or was fired, there's absolutely relevancy with her salary. It's part of operating costs and is calculated in yearly budgets.

I agree we know little but to say NCSoft did the firing is flat out wrong.

Why is flat out wrong?

because the boss of a company doesnt have authority over other companies, he can only fire his OWN peopleif it was possible, dont you think pepsi would have canned all the coke workers?

[Randulf.7614]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:Let’s be clear. ANet fired her and not NCSoft.

In almost every restructure the most tenured, most expensive, and non-essential employees are at the top of the list to be let go. She’s been with ANet for 18 years and was a community manager who was most likely making the very high end of that salary band. Yes she had a deep rooted history but that means nothing when it comes to dollars and cents. Someone else will fill her shoes and life will continue on.

After reading quite a few threads it’s as if the majority of people here have never had a job/career before. Welcome to the real world.

I disagree this is "clear"

We don't know she was fired. She could have volunteered as a few did. She could have been offered something different and not accepted it. Also her salary band is not necs relevant given as a non developer she had no real input and direction in the day to day development or running of the game, I can't imagine her pay was significantly high compared to those who did. She liaised with the community and helped with support and moderation. The decision could have been because they simply do not want that role any more or maybe NCSoft want to handle all community liaisons directly from themselves and they recommended/demanded lay offs in this area.

Having experienced mass lay offs in the "real world" what actually happens behind the scenes is often completely different to what people expect/speculate/are led to believe, especially when the majority of the info comes from media outlets who usually are misinformed or report only on what they wish to.

Basically, nothing is clear and everything is guess work and speculation. We know extremely little

I guess you didn't fully read my first sentence in the clear part is that ANet did the firing, not NCSoft. Regardless if she left or was fired, there's absolutely relevancy with her salary. It's part of operating costs and is calculated in yearly budgets.

I agree we know little but to say NCSoft did the firing is flat out wrong.

Why is flat out wrong?

because the boss of a company doesnt have authority over other companies, he can only fire his OWN peopleif it was possible, dont you think pepsi would have canned all the coke workers?

I have experience to the contrary in lay offs I have been part of. There is no hard rule to say this is true and circumstances vary company to company.

[battledrone.8315]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:Let’s be clear. ANet fired her and not NCSoft.

In almost every restructure the most tenured, most expensive, and non-essential employees are at the top of the list to be let go. She’s been with ANet for 18 years and was a community manager who was most likely making the very high end of that salary band. Yes she had a deep rooted history but that means nothing when it comes to dollars and cents. Someone else will fill her shoes and life will continue on.

After reading quite a few threads it’s as if the majority of people here have never had a job/career before. Welcome to the real world.

I disagree this is "clear"

We don't know she was fired. She could have volunteered as a few did. She could have been offered something different and not accepted it. Also her salary band is not necs relevant given as a non developer she had no real input and direction in the day to day development or running of the game, I can't imagine her pay was significantly high compared to those who did. She liaised with the community and helped with support and moderation. The decision could have been because they simply do not want that role any more or maybe NCSoft want to handle all community liaisons directly from themselves and they recommended/demanded lay offs in this area.

Having experienced mass lay offs in the "real world" what actually happens behind the scenes is often completely different to what people expect/speculate/are led to believe, especially when the majority of the info comes from media outlets who usually are misinformed or report only on what they wish to.

Basically, nothing is clear and everything is guess work and speculation. We know extremely little

I guess you didn't fully read my first sentence in the clear part is that ANet did the firing, not NCSoft. Regardless if she left or was fired, there's absolutely relevancy with her salary. It's part of operating costs and is calculated in yearly budgets.

I agree we know little but to say NCSoft did the firing is flat out wrong.

Why is flat out wrong?

because the boss of a company doesnt have authority over other companies, he can only fire his OWN peopleif it was possible, dont you think pepsi would have canned all the coke workers?

I have experience to the contrary in lay offs I have been part of. There is no hard rule to say this is true and circumstances vary company to company.

i dont know where you live, but in my country there are plenty of laws to prevent that...like, you cant touch another mans property without his permissionthere are tons of company lawyers, that spent MONTHS on the paperwork for this exact reasonthe only place where this behavior is accepted would in the mafia

[Ayakaru.6583]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:Let’s be clear. ANet fired her and not NCSoft.

In almost every restructure the most tenured, most expensive, and non-essential employees are at the top of the list to be let go. She’s been with ANet for 18 years and was a community manager who was most likely making the very high end of that salary band. Yes she had a deep rooted history but that means nothing when it comes to dollars and cents. Someone else will fill her shoes and life will continue on.

After reading quite a few threads it’s as if the majority of people here have never had a job/career before. Welcome to the real world.

I disagree this is "clear"

We don't know she was fired. She could have volunteered as a few did. She could have been offered something different and not accepted it. Also her salary band is not necs relevant given as a non developer she had no real input and direction in the day to day development or running of the game, I can't imagine her pay was significantly high compared to those who did. She liaised with the community and helped with support and moderation. The decision could have been because they simply do not want that role any more or maybe NCSoft want to handle all community liaisons directly from themselves and they recommended/demanded lay offs in this area.

Having experienced mass lay offs in the "real world" what actually happens behind the scenes is often completely different to what people expect/speculate/are led to believe, especially when the majority of the info comes from media outlets who usually are misinformed or report only on what they wish to.

Basically, nothing is clear and everything is guess work and speculation. We know extremely little

I guess you didn't fully read my first sentence in the clear part is that ANet did the firing, not NCSoft. Regardless if she left or was fired, there's absolutely relevancy with her salary. It's part of operating costs and is calculated in yearly budgets.

I agree we know little but to say NCSoft did the firing is flat out wrong.

Why is flat out wrong?

because the boss of a company doesnt have authority over other companies, he can only fire his OWN peopleif it was possible, dont you think pepsi would have canned all the coke workers?

Maybe because Pepsi is its own company, not a branch.If pepsi was a branch, cocacola could fire them, but wouldn’t want toArenanet is a daughter of NCSoft, a branch company.

[Shep.4026]

Can you make Gaile in Community light way so light come out when exit? Then if Gaile is back after exit, use light on way, and way will be lit after Gaile is out.

[Dami.5046]

Crikey this thing happens and suddenly we're all Business experts.This thread is now about the community losing a key member of it's heart and many of us are sad to see her go, not to discuss why and how.plenty of other threads out there.

[battledrone.8315]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:Let’s be clear. ANet fired her and not NCSoft.

In almost every restructure the most tenured, most expensive, and non-essential employees are at the top of the list to be let go. She’s been with ANet for 18 years and was a community manager who was most likely making the very high end of that salary band. Yes she had a deep rooted history but that means nothing when it comes to dollars and cents. Someone else will fill her shoes and life will continue on.

After reading quite a few threads it’s as if the majority of people here have never had a job/career before. Welcome to the real world.

I disagree this is "clear"

We don't know she was fired. She could have volunteered as a few did. She could have been offered something different and not accepted it. Also her salary band is not necs relevant given as a non developer she had no real input and direction in the day to day development or running of the game, I can't imagine her pay was significantly high compared to those who did. She liaised with the community and helped with support and moderation. The decision could have been because they simply do not want that role any more or maybe NCSoft want to handle all community liaisons directly from themselves and they recommended/demanded lay offs in this area.

Having experienced mass lay offs in the "real world" what actually happens behind the scenes is often completely different to what people expect/speculate/are led to believe, especially when the majority of the info comes from media outlets who usually are misinformed or report only on what they wish to.

Basically, nothing is clear and everything is guess work and speculation. We know extremely little

I guess you didn't fully read my first sentence in the clear part is that ANet did the firing, not NCSoft. Regardless if she left or was fired, there's absolutely relevancy with her salary. It's part of operating costs and is calculated in yearly budgets.

I agree we know little but to say NCSoft did the firing is flat out wrong.

Why is flat out wrong?

because the boss of a company doesnt have authority over other companies, he can only fire his OWN peopleif it was possible, dont you think pepsi would have canned all the coke workers?

Maybe because Pepsi is its own company, not a branch.If pepsi was a branch, cocacola could fire them, but wouldn’t want toArenanet is a daughter of NCSoft, a branch company.

didnt anet claim to be master of their own house?

[Randulf.7614]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@phokus.8934 said:Let’s be clear. ANet fired her and not NCSoft.

In almost every restructure the most tenured, most expensive, and non-essential employees are at the top of the list to be let go. She’s been with ANet for 18 years and was a community manager who was most likely making the very high end of that salary band. Yes she had a deep rooted history but that means nothing when it comes to dollars and cents. Someone else will fill her shoes and life will continue on.

After reading quite a few threads it’s as if the majority of people here have never had a job/career before. Welcome to the real world.

I disagree this is "clear"

We don't know she was fired. She could have volunteered as a few did. She could have been offered something different and not accepted it. Also her salary band is not necs relevant given as a non developer she had no real input and direction in the day to day development or running of the game, I can't imagine her pay was significantly high compared to those who did. She liaised with the community and helped with support and moderation. The decision could have been because they simply do not want that role any more or maybe NCSoft want to handle all community liaisons directly from themselves and they recommended/demanded lay offs in this area.

Having experienced mass lay offs in the "real world" what actually happens behind the scenes is often completely different to what people expect/speculate/are led to believe, especially when the majority of the info comes from media outlets who usually are misinformed or report only on what they wish to.

Basically, nothing is clear and everything is guess work and speculation. We know extremely little

I guess you didn't fully read my first sentence in the clear part is that ANet did the firing, not NCSoft. Regardless if she left or was fired, there's absolutely relevancy with her salary. It's part of operating costs and is calculated in yearly budgets.

I agree we know little but to say NCSoft did the firing is flat out wrong.

Why is flat out wrong?

because the boss of a company doesnt have authority over other companies, he can only fire his OWN peopleif it was possible, dont you think pepsi would have canned all the coke workers?

Maybe because Pepsi is its own company, not a branch.If pepsi was a branch, cocacola could fire them, but wouldn’t want toArenanet is a daughter of NCSoft, a branch company.

didnt anet claim to be master of their own house?

Not quite. They took publishing in house and had a decent level of autonomy, but ultimately they are part of NCSoft.

[battledrone.8315]

okay, i guess those autonomy days are over theni havent seen so much wasted potential since SWTOR

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Joshhh.2076" said:From Twitter:

"Gaile Gray @GaileGray 10mI am sad to tell you that I am no longer an employee of ArenaNet. It's been a wonderful 18+ years, and I have appreciated every one of those years and every single one of the friends I made through the game. I wish everyone at ArenaNet a fantastic future -- I love you all."

:(That's... bad. Very bad. Much worse that i feared. With no voice it will be really hard now for Anet (or NCsoft, that seems to be in charge now) to persuade anyone that everything is still fine. Because it quite obviously isn't.

@Skotlex.7580 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:I don't know why you people seem surprised. She is not a dev and ofc they'd cut community people. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same to Rubi.

It seems they really wanted to lay off as many people as they could afford to. Hopefully the core staff that actually work on the game are safe.Seeing some of the names among those laid off (like Josh Foreman and Benjamin Arnold) i wouldn't be so sure.

Even though for all of us the forums and the communication between players and ANet is very important, I can't help but feel forum goers are a minority of the game's population: they could ban every forum poster from the game and it wouldn't be felt.

Thus, we could state that all of us forum goers are expendable from NCsoft's view.They also laid off 2/3 of the web team, so it's possible the forum itself will go as well.

And will be interrigated into ncsoft page as its most likely

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

The worst thing is that she thought she had a job on Sunday, and posted goodbye on the Monday. Whichever way you look at it, that's a gut punch.

Hope you're doing well Gaile, good luck with whatever you do next :)

[SexyMofo.8923]

She’s where she needs to be.

[zionophir.6845]

read the press release and looks like NCSoft is having problems in other games and they tried to mitigate it by restructuring all their game outfits. it is unclear though if A.NET is doing well or not but if it is doing well~>ok, it was clearly a victim of "blaming the other even it is blameless."

[moonstarmac.4603]

I hate to say it but the way NCSoft is going, and with the number of important members of the ArenaNet team that were dismissed, I see very rough seas ahead for Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2. WildStar still had a decent player base but got the plug pulled. City of Heroes and City of Villians did too. I am not even sure the AION revamp is helping, and Blade and Soul has become Bergen Bot Spring's all over!

It almost makes me wonder if NCSoft is on the path to shutting down in the future.

[xBrutalityx.3507]

.............

[Loosmaster.8263]

@xBrutalityx.3507 said:.............

I had to give you a thumbs up for ingenuity!!!

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"phokus.8934" said:Let’s be clear. ANet fired her and not NCSoft.Neither.As of February 25, 2019, I no longer work at ArenaNet, having opted to depart in the hopes that others might be able to stay. I want to thank everyone for their support during the time I was with ArenaNet. Those years were golden to me, and I will always treasure that time in my life and value the many friendships I was fortunate to make. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for so many incredible, wonderful, heart-warming memories. -- Gaile User 00:33, 1 March 2019 (UTC) (emphasis added)

NCSOFT pulling the budget precipitated the cuts. But, according to various sources, they seemed to have left it up to ANet to decide who. It's been confirmed that ANet gave people the opportunity to choose to leave (without a difference in severance) and some took them up on that, including folks who we know about and some we don't. Reasons might have been because they knew they could find another position more easily than colleagues, because they were ready for a change, because they weren't looking forward to work any longer, or a variety of others.

Gaile Gray was one of those, choosing to depart to make room for others.