Guild Wars 2 should have harder content.

[Teratus.2859]

@LucianDK.8615 said:I dont think you remember the launch of HoT. Anet catered to the vocal minority wanting harder content. And the casuals just couldnt cope with it, and hot got nerfed over time.

Tbh I never had that issue with Hot since HoT was originally designed to combat the typical Meta's of the time which were mostly glassy melee types who ended up getting utterly wrecked in the beginning since their WROAAARRR SMASH ITS FACE IN!!! YOLO! tactics no longer worked lol.

I played through it first time with a core LB Ranger and had very little trouble lol

[aspirine.6852]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@aspirine.6852 said:They used to have Elite areas in GW1, so why not in GW2.

Open world vs instanced maps..

It would be impossible to make a hard mode similar to Gw1.

It might be possible to make Elite Dungeons similar to Gw1 though.. but I expect many would state that raids are more or less the Gw2 variant of those.Personally prefer Gw1's Elite Dungeons to them though.Raids are more DPS vs a clock sorta thing where as Elite Dungeons were a hardcore endurance test.

I think they could do Elite map raids in Gw2 though if they wanted to.Wouldn't be easy to make and balance but I really like the idea of Elite maps full of strong enemies and raid like bosses, designed for 50 man squads.Would certainly make for some interesting Guild content, not to mention serious squad building consideration.You could have tank roles, healing roles, boon spam roles, DPS roles, support roles, ranged roles, condi roles.A squad actually working as an effective unit rather than a random zerg of people rushing through everything like we always see in PvE.

Yep I am with you, i do not like the gw2 raids at all. I loved the dungeons and elite area's in GW1. Domain of Anguish or the Cantha elite dungeons, yes please...

[Teratus.2859]

@aspirine.6852 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@aspirine.6852 said:They used to have Elite areas in GW1, so why not in GW2.

Open world vs instanced maps..

It would be impossible to make a hard mode similar to Gw1.

It might be possible to make Elite Dungeons similar to Gw1 though.. but I expect many would state that raids are more or less the Gw2 variant of those.Personally prefer Gw1's Elite Dungeons to them though.Raids are more DPS vs a clock sorta thing where as Elite Dungeons were a hardcore endurance test.

I think they could do Elite map raids in Gw2 though if they wanted to.Wouldn't be easy to make and balance but I really like the idea of Elite maps full of strong enemies and raid like bosses, designed for 50 man squads.Would certainly make for some interesting Guild content, not to mention serious squad building consideration.You could have tank roles, healing roles, boon spam roles, DPS roles, support roles, ranged roles, condi roles.A squad actually working as an effective unit rather than a random zerg of people rushing through everything like we always see in PvE.

Yep I am with you, i do not like the gw2 raids at all. I loved the dungeons and elite area's in GW1. Domain of Anguish or the Cantha elite dungeons, yes please...

Yeah, It would be fun to have squad content like that where everyone in the squad actually had a role to play.The only place I really see this in Gw2 is in WvW.Be nice to see it in PvE content as well specially when those build templates come along and people will be able to easily swap their roles between battles.

Ok this area has a lot of tanky enemies so we need a few tanks to stall them and then lots of DPS and Alacrity!Oh this next area has a lot of projectiles so we need some of you guys to bring anti projectile skills and reflects!Right these next enemies can only be killed while suffering from Chill.. Necro's Get your Reaper on, Ele's swap to water, Rangers any pet with chill skills!Great now this boss has tons of boon strip and hits hard without protection, so we need as much protection and regen spam as we can get! also a couple of DPS Rangers swap to healing druids.Right first boss down and this second one can only be damaged when his shield is down, well need some Thieves and Mesmers to swap into stealth/port builds so they can sneak up to those consoles and disable the shield without pulling super strong adds into the fight.

That sort of thing could be a lot of fun in Gw2 imo.Would encourage people to be skilled at multiple builds and roles and Anet can get really creative with both the environment and the enemy mechanics, playing to all sorts of roles and profession mechanics.Death Penalty could be a serious threat in this content too, disabling rez and limiting the amount of times each player can die before they are left perma dead until their squad succeeds in beating the whole area.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:

@aspirine.6852 said:They used to have Elite areas in GW1, so why not in GW2.Ikr? GW1 was so much more fair towards hardcore players. It had a nice balance of Casual and Hardcore content. While GW2 is 50% Lazy, 40% Casual and 10% Hardcore. I don't mind Casual content. It's great for the game but balance it out please. I love the new Dragonfall and PoF Metas though.

Let's assume those percentages are accurate, since I haven't played GW. You have to wonder what changed and they focus on more casual content. I mean, they are in the business of making money and have all the metrics available, so if an increased hardcore focus appealed to the wider playerbase, there is no reason not to do it. Since MMOrpgs have been getting more casual across the board, over the last decade, I 'd wager the people with numbers at their disposal, have legit reasons for doing so.

@Teratus.2859 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:I dont think you remember the launch of HoT. Anet catered to the vocal minority wanting harder content. And the casuals just couldnt cope with it, and hot got nerfed over time.

Tbh I never had that issue with Hot since HoT was originally designed to combat the typical Meta's of the time which were mostly glassy melee types who ended up getting utterly wrecked in the beginning since their WROAAARRR SMASH ITS FACE IN!!! YOLO! tactics no longer worked lol.

I played through it first time with a core LB Ranger and had very little trouble lol

I did the same, first with LB ranger and then with a necro/reaper for the second playthrough. During both runs, I was surprised at the overwhelmingly negative feedback about HoT difficulty as I was steamrolling through everything. Then I tried doing it with my ele alt and found myself eating dirt most of the time. To me, difficulty wasn't the real issue with HoT, but the very noticeable imbalance between classes/specs needed addressing.

[Teratus.2859]

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:I dont think you remember the launch of HoT. Anet catered to the vocal minority wanting harder content. And the casuals just couldnt cope with it, and hot got nerfed over time.

Tbh I never had that issue with Hot since HoT was originally designed to combat the typical Meta's of the time which were mostly glassy melee types who ended up getting utterly wrecked in the beginning since their WROAAARRR SMASH ITS FACE IN!!! YOLO! tactics no longer worked lol.

I played through it first time with a core LB Ranger and had very little trouble lol

I did the same, first with LB ranger and then with a necro/reaper for the second playthrough. During both runs, I was surprised at the overwhelmingly negative feedback about HoT difficulty as I was steamrolling through everything. Then I tried doing it with my ele alt and found myself eating dirt most of the time. To me, difficulty wasn't the real issue with HoT, but the very noticeable imbalance between classes/specs needed addressing.

Yep that was more or less my exact experience as well.I had little trouble with my Core LB RangerNo trouble at all with my MM ReaperDragonhunter little trouble againDamage focused Melee Warrior.. LOL he got Reckt in just about every event, Hero Point and combat situation involving an elite class enemy.Ended up overhauling his build, sacrificing some damage forcused stats for tanky ones and replaced his GS for a Rifle so he could break off and recover in the safety of ranged combat, significantly improved the experience.

It's clear that HoT enemies are designed to counterplay the typical glass zerker rush playstyle that was more or less the default meta standard pre HoT.Not the best content to be running glass canons though tbh but it's still doable, having a ranged weapon I found to make the content significantly easier.

[archmagus.7249]

It used to be difficult, but people figured out the mechanics behind the events to the point where they're consistently passing the events. Just look at Octovine and dragon stand meta. They used to be considered really difficult, but now players know what they're doing and it's not considered difficult.

Also, how much harder do you want than raids and high end fractals?

[ChronosCosmos.9450]

@archmagus.7249 said:It used to be difficult, but people figured out the mechanics behind the events to the point where they're consistently passing the events. Just look at Octovine and dragon stand meta. They used to be considered really difficult, but now players know what they're doing and it's not considered difficult.

Also, how much harder do you want than raids and high end fractals?

Idk about fractals but raids should be on the difficulty of CM Dhuum or higher. If they don't like that idea, then just make CM raids Bi-weekly. Raids are meant for hardcore players. Hardcore players enjoy difficult content. We have plenty of fun casual events in GW2 which is not a bad thing. It's nice to have variety.

[ChronosCosmos.9450]

@archmagus.7249 said:It used to be difficult, but people figured out the mechanics behind the events to the point where they're consistently passing the events. Just look at Octovine and dragon stand meta. They used to be considered really difficult, but now players know what they're doing and it's not considered difficult.

Also, how much harder do you want than raids and high end fractals?

Yeah now people just afk metas and get rewarded.

[Sugar Min.5834]

@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:

@"Excursion.9752" said:I'll tell you what someone said to me once when I mentioned this very same topic in game. Only because it made me laugh.They told me to take the gear I use for my weekly key run and use that on my level 80's. I guess they were trying to say there are ways to make it more difficult.

On a serious note do you raid? Or you like me and looking for more difficult solo content?

I play everything. PvP, WvW, Raids, PvE.

Compared to other games

, GW2 is way too easy and they spoil players too much. That's why we have people who are lazy and just afk metas.

Then go play your other games. This is like eating an apple and asked, " why doesn't this taste like orange? ".

[Ashen.2907]

@Mil.3562 said:

@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:

@"Excursion.9752" said:I'll tell you what someone said to me once when I mentioned this very same topic in game. Only because it made me laugh.They told me to take the gear I use for my weekly key run and use that on my level 80's. I guess they were trying to say there are ways to make it more difficult.

On a serious note do you raid? Or you like me and looking for more difficult solo content?

I play everything. PvP, WvW, Raids, PvE.

Compared to other games

, GW2 is way too easy and they spoil players too much. That's why we have people who are lazy and just afk metas.

Then go play your other games. This is like eating an apple and asked, " why doesn't this taste like orange? ".

I think a better analogy would be something like eating the chocolate sundae you ordered and noticing that the whipped cream and cherry on top were missing and asking for them to be added.

[Samnang.1879]

i used to want harder content, but now i believe there are enough challenging content... dhuum cm drove me up the walls.

nowadays i just want to come on gw2 to relax... and ppl rarely do challenging content anyway (.e.g serpents ire)... and the ppl who do them are mostly toxic... so i just want easy-moderate content nowadays... (the level of tangled depths, where its doable by everyone).

[ChronosCosmos.9450]

@Samnang.1879 said:i used to want harder content, but now i believe there are enough challenging content... dhuum cm drove me up the walls.

nowadays i just want to come on gw2 to relax... and ppl rarely do challenging content anyway (.e.g serpents ire)... and the ppl who do them are mostly toxic... so i just want easy-moderate content nowadays... (the level of tangled depths, where its doable by everyone).

That's a great and I'm for that. Casual play should be in every MMO, but that shouldn't be a reason to neglect their hardcore fans.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Mil.3562 said:

@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:

@"Excursion.9752" said:I'll tell you what someone said to me once when I mentioned this very same topic in game. Only because it made me laugh.They told me to take the gear I use for my weekly key run and use that on my level 80's. I guess they were trying to say there are ways to make it more difficult.

On a serious note do you raid? Or you like me and looking for more difficult solo content?

I play everything. PvP, WvW, Raids, PvE.

Compared to other games

, GW2 is way too easy and they spoil players too much. That's why we have people who are lazy and just afk metas.

Then go play your other games. This is like eating an apple and asked, " why doesn't this taste like orange? ".

I would love to say the same thing to people who want Sekiro easier :)

But back to the topic, I feel this answer particularly ironic.Ironic, as the game actually tried to push more interesting/challenging content before.

Today, the devs would not even -dare- making a Halloween Tower. They would not -dare- making the Aetherblade path or even the Fire Island jumping puzzle.We're past a time where "Eater of Souls" had to be nerfed because the casual crowd wasn't happy, where some adventures had to be nerfed weeks after release cause 'too hard', where no more fun jumping puzzle can be made because the casual crowd doesn't want it anymore.

The last bastion of challenge is raids, -also under constant attack- and it doesn't necessarily fit everyone's tastes. There's very little challenging content left for smaller groups or solo players.

The game wasn't always like that, and GW1 certainly wasn't. These changes are made because you got people complaining non stop that everything is too hard and they can't get everything instantly.

So let me tell you, respectfully, that he has as much the right to give his opinion on the direction of the game than the pro-easy crowd.

[Klowdy.3126]

@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:We already have plenty of ways to casually play the game with barely any effort. Is there not a way where you guys can make some parts of the game more difficult? I understand that your main audience is not hardcore, but please leave some hardcore content for your hardcore fans that have been with you for a while. That is all that we ask for. Legendaries are nice...but we prefer harder content. I would trade my existing Legendaries for difficult content.

Raid.

[Cronospere.8143]

@"ChronosCosmos.9450" said:We already have plenty of ways to casually play the game with barely any effort. Is there not a way where you guys can make some parts of the game more difficult? I understand that your main audience is not hardcore, but please leave some hardcore content for your hardcore fans that have been with you for a while. That is all that we ask for. Legendaries are nice...but we prefer harder content. I would trade my existing Legendaries for difficult content.

And yet when a new mount comes out 90% complains "its too difficult"....If they bring harder content. Do it like raids: a seperate part of the game which isnt linked to the main story or main game. And be clear from the beginning its difficult, hard and prestige content

[Trise.2865]

How do you define "difficult"?By how many times you died? by how long it took to complete? by the complexity required? by how fast you have to move? by the sponginess of enemies? by the just-out-of-reach obstacles and terrain challenges? all of the above (which doesn't really answer the question, but one needs a cop-out answer to replace "I don't know")?

[voltaicbore.8012]

@"Cronospere.8143" said:

And yet when a new mount comes out 90% complains "its too difficult"....

Not sure this is a fair criticism. From what I read in that thread, those who objected to the skyscale collection (myself included) didn't think it was "hard", but more just pointlessly tedious. I have the mount fully unlocked and mastered now, and I still believe it wasn't worth the effort. Maybe the timgate reduction will make it more worthwhile for people still working on it.

If they bring harder content. Do it like raids: a seperate part of the game which isnt linked to the main story or main game. And be clear from the beginning its difficult, hard and prestige content

I think that's exactly what OP is asking for, and I have no problem with that. I just don't think it's ever going to happen, and I'm fine with that too.

[LostInDarkness.5460]

Raids and fractals. Don't say that fractals are not hard. But to be even more on topic PVP. What hard do PVP. Done.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I'm not on either side of the argument, though I feel <80 zone are way too easy now, even for newbies.

I'm just going to say that ArenaNet needs to learn what a difficulty setting is, and why every game has had one since the 90s, with the sole exception of their game (at least in story, dungeons, fractals, raids instances, open world is understandable).

Some people want certain things harder, some people want certain things easier. Just..let people chose for themselves.

[Aaralyna.3104]

Casual player here... I wouldn't mind if they would add more soloable challenge motes in story. That way you can do it super easy (our current story content), or a more challenging one (leave npcs out that res and attack as starter). And if you wanna get some optional achieve tied to a challenge mote version you can ask other players to join you and get it rather easy that way.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The only problem with having harder content is that, after awhile, you have to make the game for the players. Take, for example, Serpent's Ire. The event was perfectly possible. All you needed to do was bring a lot of CC with a competent build and cooperate with other players. But, it was abandoned content. Why? Because the players refused to do this. Instead, they would rather complain that it was too hard. Putting a collection behind serpent's ire didn't make people git gud. It just made them frustrated and give up.

Serpent's ire had to be nerfed, because players will not do it. Period. If you want harder content, you'll have to blame the playerbase. Because, if Anet makes harder content, it won't make money. It'll just drive away all the players.

[Obtena.7952]

@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:Too much of GW2 requires 0 effort. You're spoiling the community too much to the point where they just auto attack metas while afk.

And the majority of the community like it that way. What is your compelling business case to add more hard content to the game when most of the people that patronize it don't really want that?

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The only problem with having harder content is that, after awhile, you have to make the game for the players. Take, for example, Serpent's Ire. The event was perfectly possible. All you needed to do was bring a lot of CC with a competent build and cooperate with other players. But, it was abandoned content. Why? Because the players refused to do this. Instead, they would rather complain that it was too hard. Putting a collection behind serpent's ire didn't make people git gud. It just made them frustrated and give up.

Serpent's ire had to be nerfed, because players will not do it. Period. If you want harder content, you'll have to blame the playerbase. Because, if Anet makes harder content, it won't make money. It'll just drive away all the players.

Oh ... so well put. The bottomline is that this game is made for people that just want to float down the lazy river for a shiny hat, not win gold in 400m breast stroke in the olympics.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The only problem with having harder content is that, after awhile, you have to make the game for the players. Take, for example, Serpent's Ire. The event was perfectly possible. All you needed to do was bring a lot of CC with a competent build and cooperate with other players. But, it was abandoned content. Why? Because the players refused to do this. Instead, they would rather complain that it was too hard. Putting a collection behind serpent's ire didn't make people git gud. It just made them frustrated and give up.

Serpent's ire had to be nerfed, because players will not do it. Period. If you want harder content, you'll have to blame the playerbase. Because, if Anet makes harder content, it won't make money. It'll just drive away all the players.

This has nothing to do with it. There's harder metas in the game than Serpent's Ire (like Dragon's Stand), and people do them, because unlike Serpent's Ire, and most Path of Fire maps in general, the other metas actually give rewards when you complete them.

There's almost nothing to be gained from PoF and most LS4 maps prior to Skyscale.

[Obtena.7952]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The only problem with having harder content is that, after awhile, you have to make the game for the players. Take, for example, Serpent's Ire. The event was perfectly possible. All you needed to do was bring a lot of CC with a competent build and cooperate with other players. But, it was abandoned content. Why? Because the players refused to do this. Instead, they would rather complain that it was too hard. Putting a collection behind serpent's ire didn't make people git gud. It just made them frustrated and give up.

Serpent's ire had to be nerfed, because players

will not do it.

Period. If you want harder content, you'll have to blame the playerbase. Because, if Anet

makes

harder content, it won't make money. It'll just drive away all the players.

This has nothing to do with it. There's harder metas in the game than Serpent's Ire (like Dragon's Stand), and people do them, because unlike Serpent's Ire, and most Path of Fire maps in general, the other metas actually give rewards when you complete them.

There's almost nothing to be gained from PoF and most LS4 maps prior to Skyscale.

It's got everything to do with it. DS is definitely not harder content than Serpent's Ire. DS is basically zerg-fodder in 3 lanes and it only gets easier once everyone gets to the islands.

Serpent's Ire is (or was) not solvable by zerging. I did it after the recent patch as well ... it's still not just about hitting it with a zerg.

I'm all for harder content but definitely not in the OW where I have to depend too much on the typical casual to succeed. The harder the content, the more picky I am about benig able to choose who I team with.

[Ashen.2907]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Mil.3562 said:

@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:

@"Excursion.9752" said:I'll tell you what someone said to me once when I mentioned this very same topic in game. Only because it made me laugh.They told me to take the gear I use for my weekly key run and use that on my level 80's. I guess they were trying to say there are ways to make it more difficult.

On a serious note do you raid? Or you like me and looking for more difficult solo content?

I play everything. PvP, WvW, Raids, PvE.

Compared to other games

, GW2 is way too easy and they spoil players too much. That's why we have people who are lazy and just afk metas.

Then go play your other games. This is like eating an apple and asked, " why doesn't this taste like orange? ".

I think a better analogy would be something like eating the chocolate sundae you ordered and noticing that the kitten cream and cherry on top were missing and asking for them to be added.

Seriously, censoring dessert topping?