New Legendary Runes/Sigils alongside a Community Event

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Sylum.1806 said:I have one request:

Please use this as an opportunity to sink materials that are not getting sufficient uses despite their supposed rarity:

1. Globs of Dark Matter (I have 306, barely using 1 every few months, this is ridiculous. 75 per Upgrade like Stabilizing Matrices would be a good number)
2. Obsidian Shard (Wasn't a problem at launch, too many low-effort sources added since. Constantly having more than 1,000 in storage. This should consume 250 per upgrade.)
3. Glob of Ectoplasm (Prices are less than half it used to be thanks to too many rare equipment loot from farm-oriented meta-events, have over 2,000, this should also be 250 per upgrade.)
4. Fulgurite. Please use lots and lots of these. 250 per upgrade would be reasonable.
5. Pile of Putrid Essence. These are Tier 6 yet see almost no relevant use. (I have 232 after playing 7 years, and 796 piles of Vile Essence to refine into Putrid with Elonian Wines. A fair amount for players with 1-3 years playing experience seems to be 25 per upgrade.)
6. Spirit Shards. Goodness I have over 6k of these useless things that people can earn faster than they can craft Legendaries to sink them. (Consume 250 per upgrade, more if they are used to purchase an ingredient that is tradeable.)
7. Common stuff that can be used to forge a unique material like Fulgurite for Legendary Upgrades: Piles of Coarse Sand, Milling Stones, Congealed Putrescence, Eyes of Kormir.
8. Less common stuff that nonetheless lack relevant use and demand that can be used to forge a unique material like Fulgurite for Legendary Upgrades: Sliver of Twitching Forgemetal, Ley-infused Sand, Mordrem Lodestones, Evergreen Lodestones, Resonating Lodestones, Watchwork Sprockets, Karka Shells, Charged Fossils, Charged Thorn, Sheet of Ambrite.

The stuff above are barely part of the economy due to limited, infrequent or non-existent uses so I beg of you kind folks at ArenaNet to make it exciting to acquire them.

I maxed storage and if they raised the cap I would do it again. I also agree that materials should have multiple purposes and be sought, it adds more fun to gathering and loot drops. That said ANet shouldn't use people that are capped as guidelines for material syncs, I think instead they use more measured metrics such as usage, in and out of play. Sticking with those lines I think will lead to more balanced recipes for the entire player base.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:The question will be what will the cost be. To fill purple in every hole, you will need 7 runes and 8 sigils. What would you consider a reqsonable cost. Maybe 500 per rune and 700 per sigil?

I'd say no more than half of that. They have no visual component, and the QoL, while nice, isn't all that convenient to use. And you'd need many of them for a set.So, ~200-250 for runes, and up to ~300 for sigils would probably be the most they should cost.

Oh, and obviously the atrocity that is the Gift of Upgrades definitely needs its recipe changed. Either that, or be removed completely.

[Vavume.8065]

Sounds like a big change that will only benefit 0.0000000000001% of the population...

[Seteruss.4058]

Better introduce templates instead of runes.

[Pifil.5193]

Something to remember when theorising about the costs is that a piece of legendary armour costs about 350 gold.

Obviously there are other, non gold, costs too but with that in mind I think that most of the prices I've seen proposed in this thread are far too high to be feasible.

[hugo.4705]

I'm just thinking about something after taking a look again on the UI, It's written customize... if the point is to make the life of swaping between stats easier, why not allowing players to directly change the stat of their ascended gear too just like on the picture but with ascended, you would have some additionnal slots requiring only heroes anthology + the inscription. Scrapping the mystic forge recipe. Or if you want also the slot with ectoplasm....

Just a suggestion, that way would pretty easy to change your stuff without touching mystic toilet. Dunno if legendary rune can be equipped on ascended...

[Sobx.1758]

@ParadoX.3124 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@ParadoX.3124 said:I don't get it, if you already have legendary armors/weapons what is the point ?buying an inventary slot is way cheaper than crafting these things

You realise the same thing can be said about any legendary weapon or armor piece, right?

Yes, but you have a great skin, same for Trinkets.

That's highly subjective :D

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Another question, why would i sacrifice lucid motes to unlock the items when I probably will need them for the legendaries themselves?Unless there ap involved, this will just end up being the poorer player dumping tons of materials that only the few richer player could afford. This reminds me of the bug raid unlock event in vanilla wow.

[Linken.6345]

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:Another question, why would i sacrifice lucid motes to unlock the items when I probably will need them for the legendaries themselves?Unless there ap involved, this will just end up being the poorer player dumping tons of materials that only the few richer player could afford. This reminds me of the bug raid unlock event in vanilla wow.

Why think of wows bug event when gw2 had their own recently. =)

[MedievalThings.5417]

@Etria.3642 said:

@Sylum.1806 said:I have one request:

Please use this as an opportunity to sink materials that are not getting sufficient uses despite their supposed rarity:

1. Globs of Dark Matter (I have 306, barely using 1 every few months, this is ridiculous. 75 per Upgrade like Stabilizing Matrices would be a good number)
2. Obsidian Shard (Wasn't a problem at launch, too many low-effort sources added since. Constantly having more than 1,000 in storage. This should consume 250 per upgrade.)
3. Glob of Ectoplasm (Prices are less than half it used to be thanks to too many rare equipment loot from farm-oriented meta-events, have over 2,000, this should also be 250 per upgrade.)
4. Fulgurite. Please use lots and lots of these. 250 per upgrade would be reasonable.
5. Pile of Putrid Essence. These are Tier 6 yet see almost no relevant use. (I have 232 after playing 7 years, and 796 piles of Vile Essence to refine into Putrid with Elonian Wines. A fair amount for players with 1-3 years playing experience seems to be 25 per upgrade.)
6. Spirit Shards. Goodness I have over 6k of these useless things that people can earn faster than they can craft Legendaries to sink them. (Consume 250 per upgrade, more if they are used to purchase an ingredient that is tradeable.)
7. Common stuff that can be used to forge a unique material like Fulgurite for Legendary Upgrades: Piles of Coarse Sand, Milling Stones, Congealed Putrescence, Eyes of Kormir.
8. Less common stuff that nonetheless lack relevant use and demand that can be used to forge a unique material like Fulgurite for Legendary Upgrades: Sliver of Twitching Forgemetal, Ley-infused Sand, Mordrem Lodestones, Evergreen Lodestones, Resonating Lodestones, Watchwork Sprockets, Karka Shells, Charged Fossils, Charged Thorn, Sheet of Ambrite.

The stuff above are barely part of the economy due to limited, infrequent or non-existent uses so I beg of you kind folks at ArenaNet to make it exciting to acquire them.

Some of this stuff I go through awfully fast(obsidian shards, fulgarite) and some would make me want to throw you off a cliff(ANYTHING required charged quartz at this point will make me scream) but in general, I agree. And those toxic spores from Kessex.

I can't get rid of obsidian shards fast enough. I have 3000 of them just sitting in a bank tab and another 1600 in storage.

[Obtena.7952]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Functionally, runes need to be cheaper than a piece of ascended armor to make ... otherwise you just make ascended armor sets with the runes you want. Sigils and runes are relatively cheap so ... not sure what the 'sell' is here unless you are swapping LOTS.

I'm actually pretty concerned ... I don't think swappable runes/sigils is inline with build templates. Why would they release such a thing despite templates coming? maybe templates aren't all they are cracked up to be. I can see making one full set of runes/sigils to test with, but that's probably it.

To be fair build templates should include these legendary runes/sigils so it makes sense to release templates AFTER these, otherwise they'd have to re-build templates to include legendary runes/sigils.

My primary issue is if the release of these items affects how build templates will work. I guess we will have to wait and see ... not like we haven't been waiting anyways.

To be fair, I did think of a reason to have a full set of these runes/sigils, but it's specific to experimenting with builds. As long as it's easier to make an ascended bit of kit than it is to create a leg sigil/rune, I doubt the introduction will be very popular. The cheaper swap will win out.

[Sylum.1806]

@"Pifil.5193" said:

Yeah, I don't think they should use the content of your bank to determine the cost of these upgrades.

These are terrible ideas especially given the quantities you propose. Several of the materials you mention are locked behind either Heart of Thorns or Path of Fire or come from a relatively low drop when salvaging exotics (using Black Lion Salvage Kits you would have to salvage on average about 75 exotics to get 75 Globs of Dark Matter, you'd need 150 using a Master Salvage Kit).

All that your idea would achieve is preventing people from being able to make legendary runes and sigils.

1. I don't claim to represent the entire economy, just that given my relatively commitment to the game in terms of hours but casual play-style (I rarely run fractals or dungeons, never do Raids, make one Legendary weapon about once every 3.5 months, don't play the trading post, made Ascension from sPvP, made Legendary Armor from WvW, made Aurora and Vision), I'm suggesting a personal opinion of what would be a.) a reasonable amount of effort for Legendary Upgrades, b.) a means to reinvigorate the economy and some long-neglected items. Also, you do realize that outside Fractal Daily Achievements, which themselves are time-gated, the only other means of obtaining Stabilizing Matrices that doesn't involve buying them is salvaging an Ascended trinket to get 1-3 Matrices on average (Very rarely do you get 7-10)?
2. All Raid-based Legendary Armor, Aurora, Vision, Coalescence, and Gen 2 Legendary Weapons qualify as "terrible ideas" under your definition.
3. Referring to your statements on "...come from a relatively low drop when salvaging exotics...", and "...preventing people from being able to make..." You might need re-evaluate your definition of accessibility. Legendaries are meant to require legendary effort. Whether it takes time, skill, investment, or buying expansions. Trying to argue for lowering the difficulty bar under the pretext of accessibility is intellectually dishonest. Legendaries are majorly unnecessary vanity projects that cater to the Achiever type. (https://elearningindustry.com/types-of-gamers-and-learner-engagement-4) Lowering the bar for Legendaries, making it more common would only alienate the target audience this content was made for.

[Sylum.1806]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

I maxed storage and if they raised the cap I would do it again. I also agree that materials should have multiple purposes and be sought, it adds more fun to gathering and loot drops. That said ANet shouldn't use people that are capped as guidelines for material syncs, I think instead they use more measured metrics such as usage, in and out of play. Sticking with those lines I think will lead to more balanced recipes for the entire player base.

For content that the game designer(s) (GDs) would like everyone to go for and obtain, yes, they shouldn't use people who have been playing 7 years as a guideline for costs. I absolutely agree. My question is how many people agree that Legendaries are meant for everyone, or that they should be as achievable as, say collecting every piece of Requiem Armor?

[Psientist.6437]

Ideally, perhaps obviously, build templates will load any gear in a players inventory. Hopefully the only connection between build templates and Legendary gear is that it is gear.

As long as the community is paid adequately for their contribution, then there isn't anything wrong with making a luxury good a community unlock. However, because it is a luxury good, the community can't be paid by the unlock. The payment for contribution should reflect that. The community will benefit from the increase in economic activity, but the community may not be aware of or want that benefit. As well, the antipathy many have for the economy in general is focused on the Legendary tier. Please studio, don't come across cheap in the contribution reward.

I think community unlocks are great for the game. They are such an obvious fit for the game and the studio. The MF centered events are lame though. They are starkly economic and need more embellishment.

[Cristalyan.5728]

@"Rauderi.8706" said:If https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Upgrades is accurate at all, I'm severely disappointed. Again.

And yet, not at all surprised. Artificial rarity and bludgeoning players with absurd farms is the hallmark of GW2 "design" nowadays, so why should I ever expect the game to respect time and effort by rewarding players with drop rates that matter?

It's this kind of repeated economics-bashing that pushes me away from the game time and again. I can't even be excited about "legendary" anything because it's all designed to push a few items into scarcity while others sit unused at vendor value.

Whooooow!! This is what is needed to upgrade runes to Legendary status? One gift is used for ONE rune or for a set of 7? Because if this is what is needed for ONE rune, then, for a set you will need 1750 from each charm. Total 5250 charms for a set of rune. HM? I wonder how many players have even 250 of each charm by salvaging (not by buying, but simply by salvaging). This remembers of the 32 bags story. Something demanded, something ANet annouonced it will be in game, and, finaly something being ingame and very few using it. Because of the price.

I'm afraid this will be the case here also. The price will be so high that no QoL improvement will cover the fact that you may be able to buy any exotic set of runes for 10 years with the price of a set of legendary.

The person (or the team) who designed the runes is ever playing this game? They know the name for the game where the runes will be used? They know the drop ratio for the charms?

[Pifil.5193]

@Sylum.1806 said:

@"Pifil.5193" said:

Yeah, I don't think they should use the content of

your

bank to determine the cost of these upgrades.

These are terrible ideas especially given the quantities you propose. Several of the materials you mention are locked behind either Heart of Thorns or Path of Fire or come from a relatively low drop when salvaging exotics (using Black Lion Salvage Kits you would have to salvage on average about 75 exotics to get 75 Globs of Dark Matter, you'd need 150 using a Master Salvage Kit).

All that your idea would achieve is preventing people from being able to make legendary runes and sigils.

1. I don't claim to represent the entire economy, just that given my relatively commitment to the game in terms of hours but casual play-style (I rarely run fractals or dungeons, never do Raids, make one Legendary weapon about once every 3.5 months, don't play the trading post, made Ascension from sPvP, made Legendary Armor from WvW, made Aurora and Vision), I'm suggesting a personal opinion of what would be a.) a reasonable amount of effort for Legendary Upgrades, b.) a means to reinvigorate the economy and some long-neglected items. Also, you do realize that outside Fractal Daily Achievements, which themselves are time-gated, the only other means of obtaining Stabilizing Matrices that doesn't involve buying them is salvaging an Ascended trinket to get 1-3 Matrices on average (Very rarely do you get 7-10)?

Yes and I'm saying that the stuff you have plenty of is not necessarily the stuff everyone else has plenty of. I don't agree that the materials you've identified should be used in Legendary upgrades especially in the amounts you've proposed.

Stabilizing Matrices are sold in large numbers on the trading post. Globs of Dark Matter and Fulgurite cannot be. Just because you happen to have lots doesn't mean they are an appropriate currency for legendary upgrades. Given your own stock of Globs of Dark Matter you could make 4 Runes or Sigils.

2. All Raid-based Legendary Armor, Aurora, Vision, Coalescence, and Gen 2 Legendary Weapons qualify as "terrible ideas" under your definition.

No, because they don't all require, for example, 75 globs of dark matter or large numbers of other account bound materials (some of which are locked behind HoT).

3. Referring to your statements on "...come from a relatively low drop when salvaging exotics...", and "...preventing people from being able to make..." You might need re-evaluate your definition of accessibility. Legendaries are meant to require legendary effort. Whether it takes time, skill, investment, or buying expansions. Trying to argue for lowering the difficulty bar under the pretext of accessibility is intellectually dishonest. Legendaries are majorly unnecessary vanity projects that cater to the Achiever type. (https://elearningindustry.com/types-of-gamers-and-learner-engagement-4) Lowering the bar for Legendaries, making it more common would only alienate the target audience this content was made for.

Requiring people to get, for example, 1,500 Fulgurite for a set of runes would simply prevent them from being able to make them if they don't own or haven't extensively farmed HoT. This is a simple statement of fact.

If you want to believe that a legendary rune or sigil should require the same amount of effort as a legendary weapon then by all means, believe that, I do not agree.

Ultimately it's all irrelevant as the recipes have already been decided upon and if the Gift of Upgrades is correct then they've already decided they should be a huge sink for different materials to the ones you've identified (perhaps because the one's you've identified have their own uses or don't have any value).

[Omnicron.2467]

@LucianDK.8615 said:Yeah, this looks to be completely ridiculous costwise already. Looking at 750g+ for a single gift of upgrade, and who knows what more you need for the rune? Far better just to create a second ascended armorset than wasting gold on this.

LOL, so it is cheaper to make Legendary Armour than it is to make runes???!! LOL

Legendary armour is way better because runes stack. At most you might need space for 4 rune sets for legendary armour,

I see no appeal in this at all

[Pifil.5193]

While we're on the subject of whether the Gift of Upgrades is actually correct or some kind of bad joke there are currently 4784 Charms of Potence available for purchase on the Trading Post. That means the entire supply that's on the Trading Post right now could be used to make 19 Gifts of Upgrades.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Sylum.1806 said:For content that the game designer(s) (GDs) would like everyone to go for and obtain, yes, they shouldn't use people who have been playing 7 years as a guideline for costs. I absolutely agree. My question is how many people agree that Legendaries are meant for everyone, or that they should be as achievable as, say collecting every piece of Requiem Armor?

I would agree that these should be long term goals and not for everyone. Will have to see what the forge recipes look for. It's a double sided coin, I think we do need more material sinks as I fear that is all these will be. So +1/-1 perhaps.

[Acheron.4731]

seems like another wasted opportunity overall.

[Doggie.3184]

Sounds like unnecessary gear grind. :( I don't like it.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Pifil.5193" said:While we're on the subject of whether the Gift of Upgrades is actually correct or some kind of bad joke there are currently 4784 Charms of Potence available for purchase on the Trading Post. That means the entire supply that's on the Trading Post right now could be used to make 19 Gifts of Upgrades.

This reminds me of the Requiem armor fiasco.

[Curunen.8729]

I hope things are tweaked for these to be accessible and on par with current legendary items.

Individual runes ought to be cheaper than individual pieces of legendary armour, and sigils should be cheaper than legendary weapons.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Or this will get same treatment as legendary jewlery and legendary armor. Legendary armor took a year and a half to come out once you start building it, and legendary ring took longer. The community unlock event could take weeks or months to complete instead of the days people are speculating. Remember that the community goal for the boss rush almost didnt make t5, compared to completion rate of meta event rush completion rate. We dont know how many motes have to be dropped, or if the community is willing to sacrafice them for no reward they will see (most player will not make legendary upgrades).
And the cynic in me think it wont matter because the completion rate may be predetermined, and anet is just opening the sink to make players think they are making a difference.

[Luthan.5236]

I guess this is for sinking some of the mats - the event + the mat need for the legendary stuff later. With the game being old now and all those endless harvesting tools and stuff ... a lot of things are cheap I guess and they need to get people to use it. (If it is non-account bound stuff involved which they want to have more expensive at the trading post.)