Upcoming Balance Notes - 10/1/2019

[Game of Bones.8975]

I don't play PvP and Scrappers (at all) or WvW and Warriors (much) so I have the unbiased view of 'it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.'

How long has this been a thing? Just like the Scourge in your example has playable options, you also have the option of target selection with your Warrior.

What is an acceptable solution to you? Are you asking to remove the 50% altogether or reduce it to a lower number? All your post told me was "It's bad, don't do it again."

I enjoy reading posts, like yours, where players are active and point out discrepancies the play-testers may not have noticed or run across. To me that's only half the post, the other half is a workable solution or two showing you have put that extra bit of thought in how to make the game better for everyone. Then people can debate whether your problem/solution is a workable one.

[Virdo.1540]

I think the Skill "Pain absorption" From the revenants Mallyx could use an -5 Energy cost too (30energy for 1-2 sec of resistance&stunbreak is too much) ... just saying

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Acyk.9671 said:

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Greetings all! As before, here are the planned Balance update notes for next week's release! We look forward to your discussions and theorycrafting.

Guardian

• Purging Flames: This skill no longer reduces the duration of incoming conditions. Instead of removing 3 conditions from allies when cast, it now removes 1 condition from allies and 1 additional condition every second the skill persists. Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from being properly extended when Master of Consecrations was equipped.This is a nerf in WvW where it wasn't even used by players. i don't get it

Necromancer

Did you remove the changes to barriers from this patch?

• Scourge: Shade skills no longer affect the area around the scourge while they have a shade present in the world. Increased the number of targets affected by shade skills from 3 to 5.

• Manifest Sand Shade: The duration of sand shades in WvW and PvP has been increased from 10 seconds to 15 seconds.

• Sand Savant: Increased the number of targets affected by the larger shade from 2 to 5 so that it now affects up to 10 targets.If things turn out as bad as we think it will in WvW, please don't wait 3 months to fix it. By then the pop will have drop too much.

• Death Magic: This trait line has been reworked. Many traits now revolve around a new effect called Death's Carapace that increases toughness by 20 for each stack up to a maximum of 30 stacks. Death's Carapace stacks are applied for 10 seconds from all traits except Flesh of the Master.Finally a rework on this spec.

Ranger

Really good changes. Ranger will finally play something else than LB in WvW.

Warrior

• Charge: The icon for this skill has been updated. This skill now only removes movement-impairing conditions. It now increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% (10% in WvW) for 8 seconds in addition to its previous effects. Increased swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill is now a blast finisher.I feel you went overboard with the increased damage on the next 2 attacks. First range bomb might become problematic in WvW with the new sand savant trait.
• Tactics: The Tactics line has been reworked. Several traits in this line now revolve around a new effect called Soldier's Focus, which grants bonuses when executing bursts.Interesting changes to Tactics. Can't wait to test it.
• Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier. These bonuses do not stack.This seems way too overpowered in WvW. Beware not to make first engage a massacre in WvW.

Only a massacre if there is barrier.

[Dreddo.9865]

It's getting more and more obvious that people 'balancing' the classes do not have an actual feel of how they perform in game, either PvE or PvP. This is the fundamental flaw in their process along with they don't listen (or are very slow to react). It's like a formula 1 engineer tuning a racing car without testing and listening to the driver - we can all imagine the outcome.

[XECOR.2814]

@fewfield.7802 said:

@XECOR.2814 said:

@fewfield.7802 said:

@Dixie Cougar.2415 said:Scourge already suffers in spvp from the current power burst meta. No idea why a nerf would be warranted there.

Every classes have their own role and a perfect place to play right. If scourge isnt good in pvp this patch, then people should adapt and change their playstyle. Necro has 3 different specs to play and none of them is bad. Only if scourge was good, it doesnt mean it has to be that good forever.

Lol as a necro main. All specs are utter trash now. Thanks anet.

I dont think it's about the specs. i have seen many good core necro and reaper doing well in rank match.I think it's something else that's trash :/

Doing well in gold?? Also, just because they are doing well doesnt mean the class is doing well. But im 100% sure you wont be able to wrap your head around this.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

Posted this elsewhere, but it is more befitting here:

Warrior's Cunning looks dangerous. I'm already feeling like damage modifiers on most classes should be reeled back in a bit, but +50% damage?

Why not just instead have blows ignore barrier for its duration, like how WC in Guild Wars 1 was a skill that made you unblockable? Or have Wild Blow blast off all barrier before applying its actual damage?

+20% damage feels a bit more reasonable. But I guess I'll just have to wait and see...

[Nimon.7840]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@"MethaneGas.8357" said:No one:

Anet: "Scourge: Shade skills no longer affect the area around the scourge while they have a shade present in the world. Increased the number of targets affected by shade skills from 3 to 5."

Literally NO ONE is okay with this change. But hey, maybe the aim IS to nerf Scourge to the ground, in which case this accomplishes that brilliantly.

Once more the split between people who play PvP and who don't lol Scourge didn't have a trade off before, now they do. It might also be a buff in many scenarios, like WvW, where longer duration and more targets hit can get pretty nasty. However, introducing a CHOICE when using skills (use it on myself or a shade) is a brilliant gameplay decision on its own. No longer do you eat the entire cake, you only get a good slice.

You clearly never played Necro or only played Necro on a very low skilllevel...Scourges trade-off? Close to 0 defenses while only having 20k hp

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Anchoku.8142]

Would someone in Arenanet please provide more detail on the Death Magic changes? They do not appear to address any of the issues discussed in the forum, shift most of its toughness benefits to well after engaging an opponent leaving it more vulnerable at the start, and introduces an unnecessary intermediary for toughness.

Please help us understand what is really going on with the Death Magic change.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Acyk.9671 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Acyk.9671 said:

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Greetings all! As before, here are the planned Balance update notes for next week's release! We look forward to your discussions and theorycrafting.

Guardian

• Purging Flames: This skill no longer reduces the duration of incoming conditions. Instead of removing 3 conditions from allies when cast, it now removes 1 condition from allies and 1 additional condition every second the skill persists. Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from being properly extended when Master of Consecrations was equipped.This is a nerf in WvW where it wasn't even used by players. i don't get it

Necromancer

Did you remove the changes to barriers from this patch?

• Scourge: Shade skills no longer affect the area around the scourge while they have a shade present in the world. Increased the number of targets affected by shade skills from 3 to 5.

• Manifest Sand Shade: The duration of sand shades in WvW and PvP has been increased from 10 seconds to 15 seconds.

• Sand Savant: Increased the number of targets affected by the larger shade from 2 to 5 so that it now affects up to 10 targets.If things turn out as bad as we think it will in WvW, please don't wait 3 months to fix it. By then the pop will have drop too much.

• Death Magic: This trait line has been reworked. Many traits now revolve around a new effect called Death's Carapace that increases toughness by 20 for each stack up to a maximum of 30 stacks. Death's Carapace stacks are applied for 10 seconds from all traits except Flesh of the Master.Finally a rework on this spec.

Ranger

Really good changes. Ranger will finally play something else than LB in WvW.

Warrior

• Charge: The icon for this skill has been updated. This skill now only removes movement-impairing conditions. It now increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% (10% in WvW) for 8 seconds in addition to its previous effects. Increased swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill is now a blast finisher.I feel you went overboard with the increased damage on the next 2 attacks. First range bomb might become problematic in WvW with the new sand savant trait.
• Tactics: The Tactics line has been reworked. Several traits in this line now revolve around a new effect called Soldier's Focus, which grants bonuses when executing bursts.Interesting changes to Tactics. Can't wait to test it.
• Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier. These bonuses do not stack.This seems way too overpowered in WvW. Beware not to make first engage a massacre in WvW.

Only a massacre if there is barrier.

massacre at 1200 because of the new trait sand savant abused by power scourge and massacre in melee because of tactics spellbreaker and WoD. So pirate ship will be a thing for 2 more years which is definitely the contrary to what we want.

Nah. Portal bomb with 4-5 tactics zerkers with signet of might and warriors cunning. Arc divider spam. Any one with barrier goes under. Have a subgroup at range gunflaming as well.

[Josif.2015]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Here are my thoughts on the upcoming balance changes:

Elementalist

No surprises here, just a few tempest trait reworks and minor buffs to Signet of Air. Come on ArenaNet, you have to do better than this. Elementalist needs actual buffs, not minor buffs to utility skills that most people don’t use. Buff Conjure Fiery Greatsword, rework the scepter fire and earth auto attacks just something, anything than this.

Engineer

How many times are you going to solely focus on scrapper, ArenaNet? Sure, it's nice that you buffed the hammer, but that also creates another problem. You're making scrapper deal more damage even though the whole point of scrapper is to be a tank. Reducing cooldowns sure, but buffing the damage?

And what about core engineer? No kit buffs or turret buffs? I know turrets aren't as important as kits but come on! It's been like 2-3 balance patches and core engineer barely got any good buffs. However I will say this, the following two changes are really good:

• Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
• Med Kit: This kit can now be used underwater.

This is how you properly nerf professions. Holographic Shockwave's animation isn't accurate to the actual hitbox, so many times I have seen the shockwave fade out yet I still get hit. And while you're at it, please remove the barrier and stability from Crystal Configuration: Eclipse and remove the health gain from Heat Therapy. The amount of sustain holosmith has is insane. Also, please buff core engineer in the next balance patch.

Guardian

Why would you nerf the scepter’s damage by 10% in PvE only? If there’s one thing that the guardian’s scepter didn’t need is a nerf. People have been asking for a scepter auto attack rework for a long time and now you’re just going to nerf it?

You even said it yourselves:

We're also reducing scepter damage and increasing sword damage in PvE as the best melee damage option should not be a ranged weapon.

Well, if you don’t want that to be the case, rework the auto attack and make it an actual range weapon instead of it firing slow projectiles that makes it difficult to hit moving targets and forcing us to get up close so we can hit the targets.

Mesmer

The rework for Chaotic Interruption is much appreciated; I’ll take this new version of the trait than the old one anytime since it was so annoying to fight against. As for the chronomancer trait changes, they’re all solid and I especially like the changes given to Lost Time and Seize The Moment.

Lost Time is the better trait in my opinion mainly because of the alacrity, but Seize the Moment is also a viable option. Sure, most people would say that firebrand is better at applying quickness to allies, but at least the trait is no longer going to be the selfish trait that only grants quickness to the chronomancer.

Necromancer

Buffing the Death Magic specialization is not enough to fix the major problems necromancer has. Necromancer gaining more toughness from Death Magic isn’t going to help much considering that a thief, guardian or revenant can burst them and die within seconds so the only option they have in terms of survival is kiting and getting on non-teleport spots.

As for the sand shade changes, what is even the point of changing it like this? Scourge is already dominant in both PvP and WvW so why would you buff it even further? Also, no buffs for neither core necromancer or reaper? Come on ArenaNet, don’t have them sitting there and collecting dust.

Ranger

Amazing changes to ranger’s melee weapons. The sword will no longer be clunky, the off-hand dagger’s power and condition damage is increased and it will synergize with Crippling Talon.

I also think that the greatsword changes are really great, no pun intended. Replacing the pointless Crippling Throw on Counterattack with a manual Counterattack Kick is much better and replacing the evade on Power Stab, while not favored by many I still like it. Relying on dodging attacks with an auto attack chain is more luck based than skill based. If you want to dodge, just dodge yourself instead of hoping to have timed an auto attack chain perfectly in order to avoid that one hard-hitting attack.

Revenant

Nothing major, just some minor buffs to Mallyx and Jalis which is always appreciated.

Thief

Solid changes to the Shadow Arts specialization. What I would like to see changed are the venom skills. Since Leeching Venoms is getting changed, what if the venom skills got buffed? Either by having their skill cooldowns reduced in PvE only or by implementing the ammo system. Doing so could make core thief viable in end game PvE content.

Warrior

The changes to the Tactics specialization are very interesting. They aim to give warrior ways of healing, buffing and cleansing allies which I’m all for it. Giving warrior a support build is a really neat idea and I can’t wait to see how it turns out.

Whether or not it’s going to be as viable as other support builds like druid I’m not sure, but it’s always nice to see traits that are either niche or terrible be replaced with something worthwhile and something that has the potential of creating new builds for warrior.

[Dreams.3128]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:God those tempest changes made me sweat a little. Can I actually play dps tempest or some form of ele build now in competitive?????

I really want to, but dear god I don't feel like this is enough.

It seems like some elite specs aren't allowed to be played as DPS.Why should tempest be any exception? It's meant to be the support spec of ele!

Like how DH is not allowed to have more damage than any PoF spec. Or Renegade is not allowed to have any form of competitive build, or how Chrono and Druid offensive variants are never going to see the light of day. Sad times man, sad times. Fun's been thrown out the window.

[perilisk.1874]

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:I don't play PvP and Scrappers (at all) or WvW and Warriors (much) so I have the unbiased view of 'it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.'

How long has this been a thing? Just like the Scourge in your example has playable options, you also have the option of target selection with your Warrior.

What is an acceptable solution to you? Are you asking to remove the 50% altogether or reduce it to a lower number? All your post told me was "It's bad, don't do it again."

I enjoy reading posts, like yours, where players are active and point out discrepancies the play-testers may not have noticed or run across. To me that's only half the post, the other half is a workable solution or two showing you have put that extra bit of thought in how to make the game better for everyone. Then people can debate whether your problem/solution is a workable one.

Well, if the +50% damage only applied to the barrier itself, that would probably fit the intent of barrier-shredding, without necessarily being a punishment mechanic for something players can't easily control.

[babazhook.6805]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The heal rider on Shrug it Off appears to be for any source of Condi cleanse. As far as raw DPS numbers this over Discipline when against anyone with barrier. Tactics warriors will be like shock troops to break the enemy Zerg blob with warrior's cunning. Marching orders will reduce CDs to help negate the need to weapon swap to begin with. I'd say that Tactics might outshine Discipline now in WvW, at least in zergs.

I doubt it, but we'll see. The healing and the cleansing is not really relevant, it won't be nearly enough to play a role. The reduced weapon swap triggers weapon swap sigils with ease and makes warrior very versatile. Stunning / stripping and then going to damage right away. But we'll see if Warrior's Cunning is used in that way. I highly doubt it. Usually there are not that many warriors in a zerg and the changes IMO do not warrant a drastically increased number of warriors. Without it, 3 stacks of might every 15s (probably even longer, as getting down the burst skill exactly at the same time Soldier's Focus becomes available is going to be a challenge)... I doubt it will make a difference.Also there are other classes providing better / more might generation, and once you reached your 25 stacks of might, the additional might is simply lost.

Core warriors certainly just got a large boost. Spellbreakers might take this over Defense or Discipline, same with Zerkers. Str, tactics, and zerk might very well end up the DPS of choice, and I can already see a bunker tactics, defense, zerker build happening. Shake it Off now has the potential to be a warriors best healing source... Poor scourges and scrappers you are all free kills now.

I agree on the core warrior boost. Finally core warrior has one more powerful and relevant damage modifier, at least for PvP / WvW. I disagree on the Spellbreaker, but will test it out definitely.

Berserkers can achieve some very nice damage modier stacking, combining the new Warrior's Cunning with Peak Performance and Bloody Roar and Berserker's Power. THis comes at the cost of survivability. I can already see one-shot-berserkers returning. And I don't think one-shot builds are a good idea.

It isn't weapon swap cd reduction it's weapon skills reduction. Hence why this is no where near what you are fearing it to be.

The healing from Condi cleanse indeed needs numbers attached to it before we get excited, but I'm thinking between 100 and 500 hp per Condi, which can be a large amount on Shake it Off. Coupled with tempest runes, Vigorous Shouts, and Rousing Resilience, you have a skill that can potentially heal for a great deal.

Portal bomb with a few tactics zerkers will be a way to break a Zerg now. We may be inbetween pirate ship and melee Zerg metas now.

Just as example when I use shake it off on my current healing shout warrior.

I get a 2.5 k heal from the shout. I get an added heal of 3k+ if it breaks a stun (Rousing resilience). Given said warrior in Tempest runes there another heal for breaking that stun of over 2.5k. Given Shake it off uses ammo I can use it several times in a row and couple it with shrug it off which kicks in automatically. These adds will allow even higher heals as the overall base heal should go up as healing stat will be higher and heal as I cleanse will pile on top of these other heals. This even with armor close to 4k.

[nthmetal.9652]

@babazhook.6805 said:I get a 2.5 k heal from the shout. I get an added heal of 3k+ if it breaks a stun (Rousing resilience). Given said warrior in Tempest runes there another heal for breaking that stun of over 2.5k. Given Shake it off uses ammo I can use it several times in a row and couple it with shrug it off which kicks in automatically. These adds will allow even higher heals as the overall base heal should go up as healing stat will be higher and heal as I cleanse will pile on top of these other heals. This even with armor close to 4k.

While I do not disagree with that, my experiments in WvW zerg fights with rousing resilience, shake it off and co. have shown for me that while I do get the healing, I get even more healing from our FBs, while also recieving massive damage in the situations I am in. Without the FB healing, even all the Combined warrior heals do not serve (for me) to increase survivability (but I did not test the combination with the tempest runes, rather relying on durability or strength for sustain or damage). On the other hand, with the FB (and scrapper or tempest) heals, I do not need the warrior heals.Hence my estimation that the healing will not nearly be enough to be relevant. To make it relevant, I'd probably need to invest in healing power, which would go directly at the cost of damage; probably not a good idea on a warrior. YMMV.

The same can be said for fractals. I typically go berserker and full damage + banners there, leaving little room for sustain. And I don't need it. We have one healtempest in our typical fractal compo and can sustain through almost anything.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I think ha ning soldiers focus reduces cd by 3s, soldiers focus is regained every 15s. So not as bad as you think unless there are other ways to regain soldiers focus.

I can think of numerous ways to exploit this from the top of my head.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The heal rider on Shrug it Off appears to be for any source of Condi cleanse. As far as raw DPS numbers this over Discipline when against anyone with barrier. Tactics warriors will be like shock troops to break the enemy Zerg blob with warrior's cunning. Marching orders will reduce CDs to help negate the need to weapon swap to begin with. I'd say that Tactics might outshine Discipline now in WvW, at least in zergs.

I doubt it, but we'll see. The healing and the cleansing is not really relevant, it won't be nearly enough to play a role. The reduced weapon swap triggers weapon swap sigils with ease and makes warrior very versatile. Stunning / stripping and then going to damage right away. But we'll see if Warrior's Cunning is used in that way. I highly doubt it. Usually there are not that many warriors in a zerg and the changes IMO do not warrant a drastically increased number of warriors. Without it, 3 stacks of might every 15s (probably even longer, as getting down the burst skill exactly at the same time Soldier's Focus becomes available is going to be a challenge)... I doubt it will make a difference.Also there are other classes providing better / more might generation, and once you reached your 25 stacks of might, the additional might is simply lost.

Core warriors certainly just got a large boost. Spellbreakers might take this over Defense or Discipline, same with Zerkers. Str, tactics, and zerk might very well end up the DPS of choice, and I can already see a bunker tactics, defense, zerker build happening. Shake it Off now has the potential to be a warriors best healing source... Poor scourges and scrappers you are all free kills now.

I agree on the core warrior boost. Finally core warrior has one more powerful and relevant damage modifier, at least for PvP / WvW. I disagree on the Spellbreaker, but will test it out definitely.

Berserkers can achieve some very nice damage modier stacking, combining the new Warrior's Cunning with Peak Performance and Bloody Roar and Berserker's Power. THis comes at the cost of survivability. I can already see one-shot-berserkers returning. And I don't think one-shot builds are a good idea.

It isn't weapon swap cd reduction it's weapon skills reduction. Hence why this is no where near what you are fearing it to be.

The healing from Condi cleanse indeed needs numbers attached to it before we get excited, but I'm thinking between 100 and 500 hp per Condi, which can be a large amount on Shake it Off. Coupled with tempest runes, Vigorous Shouts, and Rousing Resilience, you have a skill that can potentially heal for a great deal.

Portal bomb with a few tactics zerkers will be a way to break a Zerg now. We may be inbetween pirate ship and melee Zerg metas now.

Just as example when I use shake it off on my current healing shout warrior.

I get a 2.5 k heal from the shout. I get an added heal of 3k+ if it breaks a stun (Rousing resilience). Given said warrior in Tempest runes there another heal for breaking that stun of over 2.5k. Given Shake it off uses ammo I can use it several times in a row and couple it with shrug it off which kicks in automatically. These adds will allow even higher heals as the overall base heal should go up as healing stat will be higher and heal as I cleanse will pile on top of these other heals. This even with armor close to 4k.

Right on all accounts, although with zealots stats you should be getting 3k ish heal from the shout, and 5k ish for breaking the stun. With the increased healing power from the new Vigorous Shouts and healing from clearing Condi, you'll see a larger heal after Oct. 1st.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Warrior

• Crack Shot: Instead of granting bonus adrenaline for base harpoon gun shots, this trait now adds 3 seconds of bleeding to each shot.

By removing the adrenaline gain and adding various condi buffs you remove its use for power builds, I would level adrenaline in else give power a boost to this skill as well so it of interest to both power and condi versus just removing its use from power builds.

• Master:
  • Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier. These bonuses do not stack.

Play all classes but have 3 setup as Warriors, the 50% damage increase versus barrier sounds rather high. Understand they don't stack but that sounds high without being able to run some numbers right now.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Warrior

• Crack Shot: Instead of granting bonus adrenaline for base harpoon gun shots, this trait now adds 3 seconds of bleeding to each shot.

By removing the adrenaline gain and adding various condi buffs you remove its use for power builds, I would level adrenaline in else give power a boost to this skill as well so it of interest to both power and condi versus just removing its use from power builds.

• Master:
  • Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier. These bonuses do not stack.

Play all classes but have 3 setup as Warriors, the 50% damage increase versus barrier sounds rather high. Understand they don't stack but that sounds high without being able to run some numbers right now.

They are only removing the adrenaline gain on harpoon.

[Carnifex.3275]

@Lillian Wandom Hale.7102 said:I've been maining Necro/Scourge for the last few years ..after I read this I literally removed all of his ascended stuff, scrapped all the parts for Legendary parts ..and I've bee thinking of deleting it ... I don't play WvW, so these nerfs literally deleted Necro in PvE

Thankfully Archeage Unchained is releasing soon so I have something to play until this is reverted.Necros have always been suffering in PvE (remember the group instakicking you in the old days) ...we're going back there ... soo close to uninstalling the game after 7 years :(

Now imagine being a Thief main. I quitted like 3 years ago already. :D Still checking patch notes just to realise it's never going to be revived/reverted.

[babazhook.6805]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The heal rider on Shrug it Off appears to be for any source of Condi cleanse. As far as raw DPS numbers this over Discipline when against anyone with barrier. Tactics warriors will be like shock troops to break the enemy Zerg blob with warrior's cunning. Marching orders will reduce CDs to help negate the need to weapon swap to begin with. I'd say that Tactics might outshine Discipline now in WvW, at least in zergs.

I doubt it, but we'll see. The healing and the cleansing is not really relevant, it won't be nearly enough to play a role. The reduced weapon swap triggers weapon swap sigils with ease and makes warrior very versatile. Stunning / stripping and then going to damage right away. But we'll see if Warrior's Cunning is used in that way. I highly doubt it. Usually there are not that many warriors in a zerg and the changes IMO do not warrant a drastically increased number of warriors. Without it, 3 stacks of might every 15s (probably even longer, as getting down the burst skill exactly at the same time Soldier's Focus becomes available is going to be a challenge)... I doubt it will make a difference.Also there are other classes providing better / more might generation, and once you reached your 25 stacks of might, the additional might is simply lost.

Core warriors certainly just got a large boost. Spellbreakers might take this over Defense or Discipline, same with Zerkers. Str, tactics, and zerk might very well end up the DPS of choice, and I can already see a bunker tactics, defense, zerker build happening. Shake it Off now has the potential to be a warriors best healing source... Poor scourges and scrappers you are all free kills now.

I agree on the core warrior boost. Finally core warrior has one more powerful and relevant damage modifier, at least for PvP / WvW. I disagree on the Spellbreaker, but will test it out definitely.

Berserkers can achieve some very nice damage modier stacking, combining the new Warrior's Cunning with Peak Performance and Bloody Roar and Berserker's Power. THis comes at the cost of survivability. I can already see one-shot-berserkers returning. And I don't think one-shot builds are a good idea.

It isn't weapon swap cd reduction it's weapon skills reduction. Hence why this is no where near what you are fearing it to be.

The healing from Condi cleanse indeed needs numbers attached to it before we get excited, but I'm thinking between 100 and 500 hp per Condi, which can be a large amount on Shake it Off. Coupled with tempest runes, Vigorous Shouts, and Rousing Resilience, you have a skill that can potentially heal for a great deal.

Portal bomb with a few tactics zerkers will be a way to break a Zerg now. We may be inbetween pirate ship and melee Zerg metas now.

Just as example when I use shake it off on my current healing shout warrior.

I get a 2.5 k heal from the shout. I get an added heal of 3k+ if it breaks a stun (Rousing resilience). Given said warrior in Tempest runes there another heal for breaking that stun of over 2.5k. Given Shake it off uses ammo I can use it several times in a row and couple it with shrug it off which kicks in automatically. These adds will allow even higher heals as the overall base heal should go up as healing stat will be higher and heal as I cleanse will pile on top of these other heals. This even with armor close to 4k.

Right on all accounts, although with zealots stats you should be getting 3k ish heal from the shout, and 5k ish for breaking the stun. With the increased healing power from the new Vigorous Shouts and healing from clearing Condi, you'll see a larger heal after Oct. 1st.

In fact my heals are closer to what you suggest. I understated them deliberately . I was giving the lowest heals one could expect. Various kick ins such as Inspiring practice make these heals higher in practice. In WvW I would also switch between foods . When with larger groups where I can rely on damage from others I would use heal foods which added a significant boost. When SOLO I did not need those added heals and would take condition damage foods.

Now the loss of Adrenaline on a shout will see my damage output drop as I relied on this to get more Primal bursts off but this a very significant boost to heals.

As to firebrand in Comparison. We had a tight knit group using a Firebrand that was wrecking our own group (Not a zerg as we were about 6 a side) I was on a power build and decided to bring in my heal warrior instead. After being consecutively wrecked by that group several times over as soon as my shout warrior arrived we wrecked that group in turn. It can have a significant impact on the fight.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The heal rider on Shrug it Off appears to be for any source of Condi cleanse. As far as raw DPS numbers this over Discipline when against anyone with barrier. Tactics warriors will be like shock troops to break the enemy Zerg blob with warrior's cunning. Marching orders will reduce CDs to help negate the need to weapon swap to begin with. I'd say that Tactics might outshine Discipline now in WvW, at least in zergs.

I doubt it, but we'll see. The healing and the cleansing is not really relevant, it won't be nearly enough to play a role. The reduced weapon swap triggers weapon swap sigils with ease and makes warrior very versatile. Stunning / stripping and then going to damage right away. But we'll see if Warrior's Cunning is used in that way. I highly doubt it. Usually there are not that many warriors in a zerg and the changes IMO do not warrant a drastically increased number of warriors. Without it, 3 stacks of might every 15s (probably even longer, as getting down the burst skill exactly at the same time Soldier's Focus becomes available is going to be a challenge)... I doubt it will make a difference.Also there are other classes providing better / more might generation, and once you reached your 25 stacks of might, the additional might is simply lost.

Core warriors certainly just got a large boost. Spellbreakers might take this over Defense or Discipline, same with Zerkers. Str, tactics, and zerk might very well end up the DPS of choice, and I can already see a bunker tactics, defense, zerker build happening. Shake it Off now has the potential to be a warriors best healing source... Poor scourges and scrappers you are all free kills now.

I agree on the core warrior boost. Finally core warrior has one more powerful and relevant damage modifier, at least for PvP / WvW. I disagree on the Spellbreaker, but will test it out definitely.

Berserkers can achieve some very nice damage modier stacking, combining the new Warrior's Cunning with Peak Performance and Bloody Roar and Berserker's Power. THis comes at the cost of survivability. I can already see one-shot-berserkers returning. And I don't think one-shot builds are a good idea.

It isn't weapon swap cd reduction it's weapon skills reduction. Hence why this is no where near what you are fearing it to be.

The healing from Condi cleanse indeed needs numbers attached to it before we get excited, but I'm thinking between 100 and 500 hp per Condi, which can be a large amount on Shake it Off. Coupled with tempest runes, Vigorous Shouts, and Rousing Resilience, you have a skill that can potentially heal for a great deal.

Portal bomb with a few tactics zerkers will be a way to break a Zerg now. We may be inbetween pirate ship and melee Zerg metas now.

Just as example when I use shake it off on my current healing shout warrior.

I get a 2.5 k heal from the shout. I get an added heal of 3k+ if it breaks a stun (Rousing resilience). Given said warrior in Tempest runes there another heal for breaking that stun of over 2.5k. Given Shake it off uses ammo I can use it several times in a row and couple it with shrug it off which kicks in automatically. These adds will allow even higher heals as the overall base heal should go up as healing stat will be higher and heal as I cleanse will pile on top of these other heals. This even with armor close to 4k.

Right on all accounts, although with zealots stats you should be getting 3k ish heal from the shout, and 5k ish for breaking the stun. With the increased healing power from the new Vigorous Shouts and healing from clearing Condi, you'll see a larger heal after Oct. 1st.

In fact my heals are closer to what you suggest. I understated them deliberately . I was giving the lowest heals one could expect. Various kick ins such as Inspiring practice make these heals higher in practice. In WvW I would also switch between foods . When with larger groups where I can rely on damage from others I would use heal foods which added a significant boost. When SOLO I did not need those added heals and would take condition damage foods.

Now the loss of Adrenaline on a shout will see my damage output drop as I relied on this to get more Primal bursts off but this a very significant boost to heals.

As to firebrand in Comparison. We had a tight knit group using a Firebrand that was wrecking our own group (Not a zerg as we were about 6 a side) I was on a power build and decided to bring in my heal warrior instead. After being consecutively wrecked by that group several times over as soon as my shout warrior arrived we wrecked that group in turn. It can have a significant impact on the fight.

Yeah, I haven't pulled all the gear together for that build yet, but i've been wanting to play it. Glad to see it get buffed prior to me trying it out in practice.

Zerker definitely has bunker and healer applications that get overlooked.

[Aeolus.3615]

Ventari tablet heals need more range :)))))) and movement needs to be reduced to 2sec :))))))))

[cyndelaq.7148]

Hey there! I'm super excited to play as Heal Warrior! Quick suggestion, however. Add skill links to the wiki please? As someone who plays many different classes/builds, it's difficult to keep track of every skill/trait there is.

I usually go back and forth from the forum to the wiki (or in-game) to see what each skill/trait is to get an understanding of how the changes will impact the class. It'd just be a nice addition to the notes is all.

In any case. Love the game. Super excited. Have a good one!