Is "1-shotting" acceptable in a PvP enviornment?

[Zexanima.7851]

100-0 you in <1s. Do these kind of builds add value to PvP?

[Ovark.2514]

No, but in the game's current state I'm glad I can run a 1 shot build so I don't have to deal with fighting evade-spam, block-spam, or otherwise obscenely op crap. I never used 1 shot builds before HoT, but afterwards things got supper annoying to fight so those builds became my go-to.

[Ashimmu.4219]

In First Person Shooter game - maybe, but not in Guild Wars.I think, in PVP it's more interesting to have some time to make decisions, experience consequences and re-evaluate chosen course before death.More time - more dynamic interactions - more joy!(Sorry english!)

[Burnfall.9573]

Healthy Competitive Gaming Experience Games, does not tolerate +1 shotting

NOT EVER!!

[Daishi.6027]

I'm voting "Yes" instad of "Yes, IF:..." because my answer is more nuanced than the "if". But honestly you could count my vote for either slot.

Yes, but with a caveat. It's not about "having a tell" like the seconds slot suggests, it's more about the follow up.I made a post back in may about this type of thing. I'mma just copypasta myself:

@"Daishi.6027" said:I know people are always going to get upset about the whole "Just dodge it" thing, but really I don't think it's bad design to have real one shots.The biggest design issues are the context around the one shots, and what leads to something being "fine", or "unhealthy".

Three aspects I think the major issues boil down to, and that A-net should strive towards correcting, with a bit of forward thinking is an imbalance of:

A. How hard is it to land? - Does it have a tell? a long cast time? Is it hidden in stealth? What is the range? Is it a single hit? Did it have to be sufficiently set up? Or possibly channel that can be interrupted? I've always advocated for the need to read and anticipate your opponent, if there is no tell and no hand-crafted designed counter play, and you successfully avoid it; then B.

B. What are their follow up options? - Do they go back to being invis? Do they spam blocks and evades? Do they create distance? How long are these people reliably able to live after their significant whiff? Can they instantly heal to full from critical? If they can kill me in one shot, turnabout should be fair play. I should- BY DESIGN be able to reliably "punish" them, and them not just freely escape. If they can freely escape; Then C.

C. How frequently can this be done? - Is this on a long 2-3 min CD I win button? Was it a multifaceted combo that required a 30 second c/d to set up? Or can this all just be pulled off again in 10 seconds with out any risk thanks to "B"?

Maybe room for a 4th over encompassing category with "D. how many" one shot options like this can be done.

Either way there needs to be some sort of balance between this otherwise one shots become unhealthy. It's hard to say what exactly is fair and what isn't especially when trying to have a diverse cast. However, there needs to be some equality to ALL kits for those that have to much, and for those that have to little. There should be a standardized upper-limit and lower limit to what a build is capable of, and I'm certain there should be more than enough fair play between, so long as the limits are kept in mind by design. <- Watching patches since release I feel like this is not considered, and if it is, then A-net does a poor job of it or is narrow minded to context.

Now sure, one shots feel bad to less experienced players, and experts can get blind sided and frustrated, but for beginners once you overcome that curve it becomes second nature, and a vast majority of the attempts made on you are played around. And if more skilled players never got blind sided or put into a situation where they run out of options, we'd have a game of conquest where no one died, and that is even less healthy than a game where everyone's constantly dying.

Either way/tl;dr "just dodge it" is more or less valid, the issue I see is often what follows.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Burnfall.9573 said:Healthy Competitive Gaming Experience Games, does not tolerate +1 shotting

NOT EVER!!

So how would you class LoL since it has 1shot mechanics under certain circumstances.

[Daishi.6027]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Healthy Competitive Gaming Experience Games, does not tolerate +1 shotting

NOT EVER!!

So how would you class LoL since it has 1shot mechanics under certain circumstances.

In addition I'd like to point out the existence of Dragon quest's "Hero" in Smash, and shooters with low TTK (time to kill).

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

It needs to be telegraphed for high damage. Either the move can be telegraphed or a particular situation can be used as a telegraph. (Being marked, then enemy vanishing for example)Also, if you run a glass build with no defensive option to block or escape a oneshot, it is your hard counter and reasonable in that situation as well, and you waive your right to complain about taking heavy damage.

As long as "You can clearly see/hear this, and this is going to kill you if it hits" and "You have an option to realistically reflect, destroy, interrupt, block, or evade this that is well within human reaction time" I don't mind things doing absurd amounts of damage with big combos.

@Burnfall.9573 said:Healthy Competitive Gaming Experience Games, does not tolerate +1 shottingNOT EVER!!

Nah, Touch of Death can be balanced.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:So how would you class LoL since it has 1shot mechanics under certain circumstances.

Agreed that LoL is balanced (largely). Evelynn in particular has a rather healthy take on stealth - play spike damage, and she doesnt get killshot happy until late in the game. You have lots of opportunities to see her and expect to be ganked by her later on.It has some rough patches but those usually get ironed out pretty reasonably.

@"Daishi.6027" said:In addition I'd like to point out the existence of Dragon quest's "Hero" in Smash, and shooters with low TTK (time to kill).

Agreed. Thwack, Whack and (occasionally) Magic Burst can all instant kill you, but they are randomly generated, require the character to stand still before using them, and the attack name is clearly visible as possible in that situation before it comes out. It is also blockable/reflectable/dodgable and the rest of the character's moveset is highly telegraphed/punishable to compensate for how absurdly strong that can be.

Its frustrating to get hit by, but I'd consider that balanced mechanically.

[Daishi.6027]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:Thwack, Whack and (occasionally) Magic Burst can all instant kill you, but they are randomly generated, require the character to stand still before using them, and the attack name is clearly visible as possible in that situation before it comes out. It is also blockable/reflectable/dodgable and the rest of the character's moveset is highly telegraphed/punishable to compensate for how absurdly strong that can be.

Its frustrating to get hit by, but I'd consider that balanced mechanically.

I mean... That's fair. I'm also considering things like early magic burst kills, and random crits. But to the topic, most of what GW2 has is fairly reasonable to anticipate and avoid to a similar standard; if sometimes a tighter window, and nothing visual.I think we may disagree on the standpoint of visibility in regards to health of the game. But the biggest difference (that you even pointed out) between this game and that game, is when a Hero whiffs; you get to punish him. GW2 whiffs are way to safe.

[Dantheman.3589]

A burst spec that traits for all damage should be able to. Any unique build with proper traits + amulet should be allowed to be played in its own way

[Burnfall.9573]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:Healthy Competitive Gaming Experience Games, does not tolerate +1 shotting

NOT EVER!!

So how would you class LoL since it has 1shot mechanics under certain circumstances.

-Toxicity-

Consequences- Inevitable

'Why Did This Happen?'

Problems With Riot

'While Riot was never the most beloved among the community, they seemed to be responsive, and they continued to make improvements and additions to the game. In the past year, however, their reputation has taken a hit. Patch 8.11 introduced a new meta, one focused almost exclusively on damage and bruisers. Games became less about strategy and more about speed, and it was almost impossible to stage a comeback. Players took to the forums to complain, and pros began to leave the scene – spelling disaster for the world’s most popular MOBA.'

Redemption- ??

-What’s next for League of Legends?-

'Is this decline just a result of time or of true issues with Riot and their game? The future is uncertain. Simply put, Riot needs to get their game back on track. If they want to keep League of Legends as a major powerhouse in the gaming world, they need to regain the support of their players, and they need to bring back the game that fans once knew.'

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:Healthy Competitive Gaming Experience Games, does not tolerate +1 shotting

NOT EVER!!

So how would you class LoL since it has 1shot mechanics under certain circumstances.

-Toxicity-

Consequences

- Inevitable

'Why Did This Happen?'

Problems With Riot

'While Riot was never the most beloved among the community, they seemed to be responsive, and they continued to make improvements and additions to the game. In the past year, however, their reputation has taken a hit. Patch 8.11 introduced a new meta, one focused almost exclusively on damage and bruisers. Games became less about strategy and more about speed, and it was almost impossible to stage a comeback. Players took to the forums to complain, and pros began to leave the scene – spelling disaster for the world’s most popular MOBA.'

Redemption

- ??

-What’s next for League of Legends?-

'Is this decline just a result of time or of true issues with Riot and their game? The future is uncertain. Simply put, Riot needs to get their game back on track. If they want to keep League of Legends as a major powerhouse in the gaming world, they need to regain the support of their players, and they need to bring back the game that fans once knew.'

You ignore the point and post something to push your agenda. League has had one shot builds well before the point of whatever you have posted. The whole assassin category of champions is designed to do this.

And despite your paragraph league continues to be one of the most competitive games out where despite having and continuing to have one shot mechanics.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:Healthy Competitive Gaming Experience Games, does not tolerate +1 shotting

NOT EVER!!

So how would you class LoL since it has 1shot mechanics under certain circumstances.

-Toxicity-

Consequences

- Inevitable

'Why Did This Happen?'

Problems With Riot

'While Riot was never the most beloved among the community, they seemed to be responsive, and they continued to make improvements and additions to the game. In the past year, however, their reputation has taken a hit. Patch 8.11 introduced a new meta, one focused almost exclusively on damage and bruisers. Games became less about strategy and more about speed, and it was almost impossible to stage a comeback. Players took to the forums to complain, and pros began to leave the scene – spelling disaster for the world’s most popular MOBA.'

Redemption

- ??

-What’s next for League of Legends?-

'Is this decline just a result of time or of true issues with Riot and their game? The future is uncertain. Simply put, Riot needs to get their game back on track. If they want to keep League of Legends as a major powerhouse in the gaming world, they need to regain the support of their players, and they need to bring back the game that fans once knew.'

You ignore the point and post something to push your agenda. League has had one shot builds well before the point of whatever you have posted. The whole assassin category of champions is designed to do this.

And despite your paragraph league continues to be one of the most competitive games out where despite having and continuing to have one shot mechanics.

You are free to think and to believe what you want; i will not argue with you about it, Also my agenda hasn't changed in promoting healthy competitive gaming experience and exposing Toxicity to the light-Truth

Truth has nothing to fear, nothing to hide

It's Just Is

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

With a proper setup and a tell that a skilled player can pick up, Yes.

[saerni.2584]

My real answer isn’t in the poll.

Ideally, any glass build should be able to one shot other glass builds.

Practically, I think Anet should reduce might gain across the board and reduce access to unblockable attacks.

The problem isn’t that one shots are possible. The problem is too many builds with a wide range of sustain options all have access to oneshots through easy access to 25 might. When even autoattacks can hit for so much damage that everything becomes “must dodge” then combat becomes less interesting.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Scared to vote lol. My build can technically 1 shot if they are super glass, however the build itself is built around smaller sustained bursts.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Scared to vote lol. My build can technically 1 shot if they are super glass, however the build itself is built around smaller sustained bursts.

nothing to be scared of :)

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Scared to vote lol. My build can technically 1 shot if they are super glass, however the build itself is built around smaller sustained bursts.

nothing to be scared of :)

Well ppl dont like Mirage regardless of build (non meta for mine) so ppl may think my input is biased or moot :)

[Burnfall.9573]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Scared to vote lol. My build can technically 1 shot if they are super glass, however the build itself is built around smaller sustained bursts.

nothing to be scared of :)

Well ppl dont like Mirage regardless of build (non meta for mine) so ppl may think my input is biased or moot :)

I've survived 8 years including guild wars 2 beta against Toxicity, defender of Mesmer and Necromancer Profession...you're good :)

[cyberzombie.7348]

I don't mind builds that one-shot as long as most if not all survival is exchanged to do it and the setup has a reasonable recharge. While it might be a one shot damage against some, there are bunkers and brusiers that can mitigate the damage by over 1/2 or even fully heal from the hit.

[Tycura.1982]

As much as people cry about mantra one shots it loses a huge chunk of its effectiveness when it's not stealthed because it does have a tell. Gs2 and Gs4 have big ole "I'm gonna wreck ya" animations.

[Abyssisis.3971]

No, they shouldn’t be possible in the game.

[Avatar.3568]

Yes it should be do able, why?

First, it's since always in the game

Second, if I die to a one shot, I know it was my fault, I payed no attention.

Buuuut, it was easier to deal, when team ranked was a thing.The communication helped a lot against it.

[Tharan.9085]

Btw, why is the last answer possibility a "No" aswell? I dont see a problem with builds that are just working against noobs since every build does that.

[Fueki.4753]

No, but currently barely anything is acceptable in PvP.