Condi Meta? Don't think so.

[Celsith.2753]

It was fun for two days. The power reduction meant glassier players could actually fight in lord rooms etc without instantly blowing up to aoe. Had some really fun extended battles.Then everyone went tankier and condi. Shame. I heard so many people over the last couple years saying they missed good old melee train meta yet they all choose to go bunker support/condi and make it pirate ship again due to aoe condi spam.
It's not much fun at the moment.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Might be just who I'm fighting this week, but I'm seeing a much higher "Pharus per capita" than ever before.

One thing that did come up a few times in comms: it's nice to look at a squad of 40-50 players and see more than 4-5 distinct icons. Whether that will last, we shall see.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Yes, good luck with that. The internal WvW guild group composition we currently have is running 3 firebrands (for overall support and stab), 3 dedicated condi cleanse builds (scrapper and elementalists) and 2 support warriors (with again heavy condi manage) for a 15 man setup. All that just to sustain against an organized spike of an opposing 15 player squad with half condi and half power builds. You have not eaten a spike condi bomb from 10+ players if you assume you can simply tank it without cleanse. Oh and FYI, that setup barely covers the condi bomb atm (from approximately 4-5 organized spiking players) since many condi cleanses were reduced last patch (for whatever reason) as was healing ."All that?"

Hm... So its roughly (ignoring less spellbreakers):

1 fb (heal, stab), 1 scrapper (heal, cleanse), 1 spellbreaker (cleanse, bubble) + 2 dps to form a 5 man party.

But... thats... the exact same meta as prepatch?

Last night we had a squad of 30 with 8 scrappers. (incidentally this was a impromptu squad so 6 scrappers joined) They must have read this thread, lol.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Yes, good luck with that. The internal WvW guild group composition we currently have is running 3 firebrands (for overall support and stab), 3 dedicated condi cleanse builds (scrapper and elementalists) and 2 support warriors (with again heavy condi manage) for a 15 man setup. All that just to sustain against an organized spike of an opposing 15 player squad with half condi and half power builds. You have not eaten a spike condi bomb from 10+ players if you assume you can simply tank it without cleanse. Oh and FYI, that setup barely covers the condi bomb atm (from approximately 4-5 organized spiking players) since many condi cleanses were reduced last patch (for whatever reason) as was healing ."All that?"

Hm... So its roughly (ignoring less spellbreakers):

1 fb (heal, stab), 1 scrapper (heal, cleanse), 1 spellbreaker (cleanse, bubble) + 2 dps to form a 5 man party.

But... thats... the exact same meta as prepatch?

Except,The Firebrand was not running condi remove to this extent or was it pressured to. The condi remove on the offheal was not necessary in each group, a squad of 15 had 2 offheals and they were run more offensive.

The spellbreakers were full berserker on GS+Hammer and not support oriented.

You have no clue what you are talking about. I mean come on, you even linked to the already publicly available metabattle builds in development and rated so far. The spellbreaker there too is literally a full heal support build.

[Cyninja.2954]

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Condi reduction works in small scale to counter condi builds without dedicating to hard to cleanse when trying to out damage the condi player for a fast win. They are meaningless in big scale fights where the condis will kill you unless cleansed. If you have x stacks of condis doing 200k damage over their entire duration, it's rather worthless to reduce those condis to 80k, you're still dead in the same of initial ticks.

EDIT: don't assume condition duration decrease is the same as condition damage reduction, because it is not. It might have the same effect over the entire cycle of the condition, but it certainly does not have the same effect on the first 2-3 ticks.

Are we forgetting the sixth effect of anti-toxin runes?

No I am not. Are you aware that additional condition cleanse ONLY affects the person who has the rune on? So you want to run an entire squad with everyone running Anti toxin rune (and even that would just make things bearable), and you are still here making an argument that condi is balanced?

So to summarize:

• every player in squad now has to run anti toxin rune
• 1 dedicated cleanse meta class is required per subgroup (1.5 without anti toxin runes on everyone)
• both of those IF the opposing team has a 50-50 split of power and condi damage dealers. If the opposing team has more condi, those measures will not suffice

Yes, that seems balanced. Almost like running an average 2.5 support guardians against a squad of power damage dealers.

[Aeolus.3615]

We had 3 ventari revs doing a good job ._. On 30 dome and catch spikes somewhat decently and helping scrappers and fb with condi cleanse.

Basically reducing condi or taking care of lefties.

There’s even space for guardians SW lol... the bow on firebrands isn’t that bad :p when spikes and blasted it’s a heal, light aura and clears condis, that alone sustains slightly.

[Substance E.4852]

@Abyssisis.3971 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:I’m currently using a condi soul beast with Axe/dagger and dagger/torch, as bigo said, shortbow is utter trash. And when I’m zerging, I use a burn guard, as that’s always fun.

Shortbow is far from being trash and conid ranger is viable now more than before thx to direct dmg nerf....so condi ranger is viable ...the OP is wrong.

Shortbow wasn’t viable before the balance patch and it also saw nerfs so it’s not viable now. I fought a trapper Druid using a shortbow inside an enemy camp and the guards were more of a threat than the player, thats how trash the weapon is.

The weapon is pretty meh 1v1 because it requires you to flank an opponent to get the most out of it

I have no idea why Anet insists on this being the case but we all know how much they play their own game so...

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

-Laughs in super-toxic-nerf-needed condi DE

[God.2708]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Condi reduction works in small scale to counter condi builds without dedicating to hard to cleanse when trying to out damage the condi player for a fast win. They are meaningless in big scale fights where the condis will kill you unless cleansed. If you have x stacks of condis doing 200k damage over their entire duration, it's rather worthless to reduce those condis to 80k, you're still dead in the same of initial ticks.

EDIT: don't assume condition duration decrease is the same as condition damage reduction, because it is not. It might have the same effect over the entire cycle of the condition, but it certainly does not have the same effect on the first 2-3 ticks.

Are we forgetting the sixth effect of anti-toxin runes?

No I am not. Are you aware that additional condition cleanse ONLY affects the person who has the rune on? So you want to run an entire squad with everyone running Anti toxin rune (and even that would just make things bearable), and you are still here making an argument that condi is balanced?

So to summarize:

• every player in squad now has to run anti toxin rune
• 1 dedicated cleanse meta class is required per subgroup (1.5 without anti toxin runes on everyone)
• both of those IF the opposing team has a 50-50 split of power and condi damage dealers. If the opposing team has more condi, those measures will not suffice

Yes, that seems balanced. Almost like running an average 2.5 support guardians against a squad of power damage dealers.

Yes, I am aware of how the rune works. And that was what I proposed I suppose you didn't read very well.

-Sure, if we're making an all condi comp the condi damage dealers don't even have a bad rune, and the scrapper anti-toxin meta demonstrates that placing it on healers to make them do their job better isn't a bad idea either.-We had that already.-If the enemy team is 50-50 why are we even fucking talking about this? Anet just balanced the fucking game now they just need to up the number of viable condition and power builds. If they are all condi builds your entire comp being in anti-toxin runes will do more than suffice, you will literally be immortal assuming even numbers.

[Cyninja.2954]

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Condi reduction works in small scale to counter condi builds without dedicating to hard to cleanse when trying to out damage the condi player for a fast win. They are meaningless in big scale fights where the condis will kill you unless cleansed. If you have x stacks of condis doing 200k damage over their entire duration, it's rather worthless to reduce those condis to 80k, you're still dead in the same of initial ticks.

EDIT: don't assume condition duration decrease is the same as condition damage reduction, because it is not. It might have the same effect over the entire cycle of the condition, but it certainly does not have the same effect on the first 2-3 ticks.

Are we forgetting the sixth effect of anti-toxin runes?

No I am not. Are you aware that additional condition cleanse ONLY affects the person who has the rune on? So you want to run an entire squad with everyone running Anti toxin rune (and even that would just make things bearable), and you are still here making an argument that condi is balanced?

So to summarize:

• every player in squad now has to run anti toxin rune
• 1 dedicated cleanse meta class is required per subgroup (1.5 without anti toxin runes on everyone)
• both of those IF the opposing team has a 50-50 split of power and condi damage dealers. If the opposing team has more condi, those measures will not suffice

Yes, that seems balanced. Almost like running an average 2.5 support guardians against a squad of power damage dealers.

Yes, I am aware of how the rune works. And that was what I proposed I suppose you didn't read very well.

-Sure, if we're making an all condi comp the condi damage dealers don't even have a bad rune, and the scrapper anti-toxin meta demonstrates that placing it on healers to make them do their job better isn't a bad idea either.-We had that already.

No, he had .7 supports on average. All that was needed was 1 guard for stab.

-If the enemy team is 50-50 why are we even kitten talking about this? Anet just balanced the kitten game now they just need to up the number of viable condition and power builds. If they are all condi builds your entire comp being in anti-toxin runes will do more than suffice, you will literally be immortal assuming even numbers.

Because a group with more condi classes needs even more cleansers? 0_0

[Aeolus.3615]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Condi reduction works in small scale to counter condi builds without dedicating to hard to cleanse when trying to out damage the condi player for a fast win. They are meaningless in big scale fights where the condis will kill you unless cleansed. If you have x stacks of condis doing 200k damage over their entire duration, it's rather worthless to reduce those condis to 80k, you're still dead in the same of initial ticks.

EDIT: don't assume condition duration decrease is the same as condition damage reduction, because it is not. It might have the same effect over the entire cycle of the condition, but it certainly does not have the same effect on the first 2-3 ticks.

Are we forgetting the sixth effect of anti-toxin runes?

No I am not. Are you aware that additional condition cleanse ONLY affects the person who has the rune on? So you want to run an entire squad with everyone running Anti toxin rune (and even that would just make things bearable), and you are still here making an argument that condi is balanced?

So to summarize:

• every player in squad now has to run anti toxin rune
• 1 dedicated cleanse meta class is required per subgroup (1.5 without anti toxin runes on everyone)
• both of those IF the opposing team has a 50-50 split of power and condi damage dealers. If the opposing team has more condi, those measures will not suffice

Yes, that seems balanced. Almost like running an average 2.5 support guardians against a squad of power damage dealers.

Yes, I am aware of how the rune works. And that was what I proposed I suppose you didn't read very well.

-Sure, if we're making an all condi comp the condi damage dealers don't even have a bad rune, and the scrapper anti-toxin meta demonstrates that placing it on healers to make them do their job better isn't a bad idea either.-We had that already.

No, he had .7 supports on average. All that was needed was 1 guard for stab.

-If the enemy team is 50-50 why are we even kitten talking about this? Anet just balanced the kitten game now they just need to up the number of viable condition and power builds. If they are all condi builds your entire comp being in anti-toxin runes will do more than suffice, you will literally be immortal assuming even numbers.

Because a group with more condi classes needs even more cleansers? 0_0

Light auras.....light fields..... issues in a way is people are used to stack boons and aoe bomb nothing more..

Start using aoe light fields for firebrands that even heal and can be blasted for light aura, each tick is arround 400-600 heal skill has x15 possible heals, imagine a spike from several fbs doing it..

Players need to get out of search for carry meta, the counter for current condi boom also exist in several ways, issue is every one play condi bomb and not the counter, some even expect to get carried by scrappers and fbs,

Get creative people.... active gameplay is quite strong.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"bigo.9037" said:So before patch hit everyone was saying condi was gonna be meta. Funny. I don't see any condi players. Mirage / necro was primary condi specs, and mirage got big nerf so I don't see much of those at all. Yea there are condi revs, but for blobs it's mostly the same, it seems. Fbs and necros with revenants.

And roaming? Dominated by rangers, thieves and guardians/ DH all playing power.1shot rangers and vault spamming thieves with an occasional condi dodger thief. Holos I don't see much of. Maybe warriors here and there but not really.

you forgot +1 shot Thief Profession

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98908/thief-still-hitting-for-5k#latest

[alain.1659]

People forgot how to blast correct fields at the right moment.

Also there are still strong power/bruiser professions that can kick most condi builds down. Whenever i get caught by a zerg I die due to power dmg, not condi. Only condi that really bothers me is the thief and that is because of stealth and mobility. I dont have any reveal options and when I use the trap they go invis or away. But thatis my own problem as my build lacks that much burst and mobility. I am ok with rock paper scissors mentality mostly.

I dont think condi will be that meta. There are still good cleanses that can prevent most dmg from condi. Only in roaming one might suffer from it yet you can still cleanse it via sigils and skills.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Condi reduction works in small scale to counter condi builds without dedicating to hard to cleanse when trying to out damage the condi player for a fast win. They are meaningless in big scale fights where the condis will kill you unless cleansed. If you have x stacks of condis doing 200k damage over their entire duration, it's rather worthless to reduce those condis to 80k, you're still dead in the same of initial ticks.

EDIT: don't assume condition duration decrease is the same as condition damage reduction, because it is not. It might have the same effect over the entire cycle of the condition, but it certainly does not have the same effect on the first 2-3 ticks.

Are we forgetting the sixth effect of anti-toxin runes?

No I am not. Are you aware that additional condition cleanse ONLY affects the person who has the rune on? So you want to run an entire squad with everyone running Anti toxin rune (and even that would just make things bearable), and you are still here making an argument that condi is balanced?

So to summarize:

• every player in squad now has to run anti toxin rune
• 1 dedicated cleanse meta class is required per subgroup (1.5 without anti toxin runes on everyone)
• both of those IF the opposing team has a 50-50 split of power and condi damage dealers. If the opposing team has more condi, those measures will not suffice

Yes, that seems balanced. Almost like running an average 2.5 support guardians against a squad of power damage dealers.

Yes, I am aware of how the rune works. And that was what I proposed I suppose you didn't read very well.

-Sure, if we're making an all condi comp the condi damage dealers don't even have a bad rune, and the scrapper anti-toxin meta demonstrates that placing it on healers to make them do their job better isn't a bad idea either.-We had that already.

No, he had .7 supports on average. All that was needed was 1 guard for stab.

-If the enemy team is 50-50 why are we even kitten talking about this? Anet just balanced the kitten game now they just need to up the number of viable condition and power builds. If they are all condi builds your entire comp being in anti-toxin runes will do more than suffice, you will literally be immortal assuming even numbers.

Because a group with more condi classes needs even more cleansers? 0_0

Light auras.....light fields..... issues in a way is people are used to stack boons and aoe bomb nothing more..

Start using aoe light fields for firebrands that even heal and can be blasted for light aura, each tick is arround 400-600 heal skill has x15 possible heals, imagine a spike from several fbs doing it..

Light fields provide cleansing and retal depending on the blast type. What you are thinking of is water fields, and those are not available on guardian.

EDIT:(Obviously available on tome 2 skill 4. Going to leave the original comment unedited as to keep my mistake in the quick response.)

Direct cleansing and healing was both nerfed on guardian versus pre patch. Yes, gvg players blast water fields, we've done so for ages.

@Aeolus.3615 said:Players need to get out of search for carry meta, the counter for current condi boom also exist in several ways, issue is every one play condi bomb and not the counter, some even expect to get carried by scrappers and fbs,

Get creative people.... active gameplay is quite strong.

Of course condi can be countered. Being able to counter something does not mean it's balanced. It's balanced if the effort to counter it remains in relations to the benefit it brings. Power was more than possible to get countered last meta, it simply took vast amounts of additional firebrands. It was still a power meta.

If you manage to get everyone on anti toxin runes, have 2 supports (1 fb and 1 condi cleanser) per group AND manage to stay compact, then yes, condi can be contested. So, is balance now stacking your entire 50 squad setup so that it can deal with a damage type?

[Bezerker.2379]

@bigo.9037 said:

@Bezerker.2379 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@monkcrabswamp.9315 said:A lot of people are still testing their builds. My guild has been discussing going condi but that's in the stages of testing, and in the meantime we're running with whatever our guildies already know and trying to wring more performance out of them.

Give it a bit more time before you start going 'see, the meta hasn't changed after all'. (I'm NA, btw.)

See when it comes to roaming you really have to be realistic about it when it comes to condi. What specs can actually pull off condi playstyle? Mesmers can.. guardian / fb can do burnspam.. necros.. revenants?

condi weaver?condi warrior?condi engineer?condi thief?

All of those classes were or are run as condi builds in the past and/or now. Especially condi weaver which was even played last meta. That's on top of the classes you mentioned.

@bigo.9037 said:That's all I can think of. Everything else doesn't really have a proper condi setup. I tried ranger. I've probably spent about 20 hours before patch, and 5 after patch trying to think of ways to get it to work. It doesn't. Risk is high, reward is low. Why should I bother trying to land 5 abilities because my AA chain applies 0 condi, half of the skills in 900 range, other half in melee just to get a 2k condi tick that gets cleansed away with a single weapon swap, when I can just press 3 buttons on power build and deal 20k dmg in 1.5 seconds from 1200 range?

Have you even tried running a condi weapon as ranger? Last time I checked, shortbow does have condi on it's autos, as well as access to bleeding and poison. Burning from utility skills and Torch. I would love to see you deal 20k damage in 1.5 seconds to a target with toughness that's not afk.

Stop assuming your power damage will remain the same between full glass power builds and condi builds stacked with toughness.

@bigo.9037 said:That's the problem with condi. Sigil of cleansing makes it impossible to deal dmg ESPECIALLY when certain classes' condi traits and skills have been neglected since 2012.

If you can out cleanse a condi build with a 3 condi cleanse per 10 seconds, you deserve to win. I doubt a proper condi build applies that few condis, at least mine don't.

EDIT:small FYI, and I know both games modes are different, take a look at the pvp boards. Then take a look what people there are talking about. Pvp comes rather close to roaming with only lacking the ability to have more player incoming (which is rather big, granted).

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@monkcrabswamp.9315 said:A lot of people are still testing their builds. My guild has been discussing going condi but that's in the stages of testing, and in the meantime we're running with whatever our guildies already know and trying to wring more performance out of them.

Give it a bit more time before you start going 'see, the meta hasn't changed after all'. (I'm NA, btw.)

See when it comes to roaming you really have to be realistic about it when it comes to condi. What specs can actually pull off condi playstyle? Mesmers can.. guardian / fb can do burnspam.. necros.. revenants?

condi weaver?condi warrior?condi engineer?condi thief?

All of those classes were or are run as condi builds in the past and/or now. Especially condi weaver which was even played last meta. That's on top of the classes you mentioned.

@bigo.9037 said:That's all I can think of. Everything else doesn't really have a proper condi setup. I tried ranger. I've probably spent about 20 hours before patch, and 5 after patch trying to think of ways to get it to work. It doesn't. Risk is high, reward is low. Why should I bother trying to land 5 abilities because my AA chain applies 0 condi, half of the skills in 900 range, other half in melee just to get a 2k condi tick that gets cleansed away with a single weapon swap, when I can just press 3 buttons on power build and deal 20k dmg in 1.5 seconds from 1200 range?

Have you even tried running a condi weapon as ranger? Last time I checked, shortbow does have condi on it's autos, as well as access to bleeding and poison. Burning from utility skills and Torch. I would love to see you deal 20k damage in 1.5 seconds to a target with toughness that's not afk.

Stop assuming your power damage will remain the same between full glass power builds and condi builds stacked with toughness.

@bigo.9037 said:That's the problem with condi. Sigil of cleansing makes it impossible to deal dmg ESPECIALLY when certain classes' condi traits and skills have been neglected since 2012.

If you can out cleanse a condi build with a 3 condi cleanse per 10 seconds, you deserve to win. I doubt a proper condi build applies that few condis, at least mine don't.

EDIT:small FYI, and I know both games modes are different, take a look at the pvp boards. Then take a look what people there are talking about. Pvp comes rather close to roaming with only lacking the ability to have more player incoming (which is rather big, granted).

Okay don't try to educate me on my main classes weapon skills when you clearly haven't even bothered trying to play it, and then tell ME if I have even looked at shortbow.

YOU try shortbow. It's the biggest joke in all of gw2 it has the lowest dmg ever and is terrible for kiting. The autos deal essentially 0 dmg because they are reduced by 50% if enemy is facing you, which is like 75% of the time you're fighting them or more. The poison? 0 dmg. Daze is nice, but useless unless you run druid so you can chain those together with ancient seeds. I've done my kitten research, so stop thinking you can school me on my own class that you have never touched except look at some skill descriptions.

Condi ranger sucks. Period. It has a chance in spvp because of nodes, but in open world it is worthless. Same in 2v2.

Not for nothing but my short bow bleeds do 1200 per auto from side or back. It's not as kitten as you think

Is that with sharpening stone? And how many times do you have to hit target for it to tick 1200?

Also again, I don't care what your bleed ticks are if you're attacking from the back.That's like saying "yea dude I just did an awesome 1v10. They were afk, but it doesn't matter I still won!"

If target is not even facing you then you can't come and tell me your build works.

SOO many people change their build and then they test it in wvw by running around with like 4 other pugs only taking on groups smaller and weaker than them and because they are "winning" they think their build is amazing "Wow look how I pinned him down! This build is amazing". Yea. Try doing that to competent players fighting you with even numbers and then come talk to me about your build.

Without. 1500 damage over 9s per auto from side or back. It's trivial to get access to shoot someone in the side with mobility pets . (Hint, swoop was nerfed, but, there are other movement pets with <10s cds on their leaps)

So, to that , about 4 autos (and it autos like a machine gun) to hit ~1200 or so. Not including sharp stone or shortbow 4.

Now, I will say, most of my burst comes from leaping in, torch 4, prelude lash, torch 5, pet knockdown, dagger leap, through torch 5 for fireshield, and when thye realize their face is melting, start shortbowing them down from side or back.

That said, if it fails, you just leap away, shortbow kite until resets, try again.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Condi reduction works in small scale to counter condi builds without dedicating to hard to cleanse when trying to out damage the condi player for a fast win. They are meaningless in big scale fights where the condis will kill you unless cleansed. If you have x stacks of condis doing 200k damage over their entire duration, it's rather worthless to reduce those condis to 80k, you're still dead in the same of initial ticks.

EDIT: don't assume condition duration decrease is the same as condition damage reduction, because it is not. It might have the same effect over the entire cycle of the condition, but it certainly does not have the same effect on the first 2-3 ticks.

Are we forgetting the sixth effect of anti-toxin runes?

No I am not. Are you aware that additional condition cleanse ONLY affects the person who has the rune on? So you want to run an entire squad with everyone running Anti toxin rune (and even that would just make things bearable), and you are still here making an argument that condi is balanced?

So to summarize:

• every player in squad now has to run anti toxin rune
• 1 dedicated cleanse meta class is required per subgroup (1.5 without anti toxin runes on everyone)
• both of those IF the opposing team has a 50-50 split of power and condi damage dealers. If the opposing team has more condi, those measures will not suffice

Yes, that seems balanced. Almost like running an average 2.5 support guardians against a squad of power damage dealers.

Yes, I am aware of how the rune works. And that was what I proposed I suppose you didn't read very well.

-Sure, if we're making an all condi comp the condi damage dealers don't even have a bad rune, and the scrapper anti-toxin meta demonstrates that placing it on healers to make them do their job better isn't a bad idea either.-We had that already.

No, he had .7 supports on average. All that was needed was 1 guard for stab.

-If the enemy team is 50-50 why are we even kitten talking about this? Anet just balanced the kitten game now they just need to up the number of viable condition and power builds. If they are all condi builds your entire comp being in anti-toxin runes will do more than suffice, you will literally be immortal assuming even numbers.

Because a group with more condi classes needs even more cleansers? 0_0

Light auras.....light fields..... issues in a way is people are used to stack boons and aoe bomb nothing more..

Start using aoe light fields for firebrands that even heal and can be blasted for light aura, each tick is arround 400-600 heal skill has x15 possible heals, imagine a spike from several fbs doing it..

Light fields provide cleansing and retal depending on the blast type. What you are thinking of is water fields, and those are not available on guardian.

EDIT:(Obviously available on tome 2 skill 4. Going to leave the original comment unedited as to keep my mistake in the quick response.)

Direct cleansing and healing was both nerfed on guardian versus pre patch. Yes, gvg players blast water fields, we've done so for ages.

@Aeolus.3615 said:Players need to get out of search for carry meta, the counter for current condi boom also exist in several ways, issue is every one play condi bomb and not the counter, some even expect to get carried by scrappers and fbs,

Get creative people.... active gameplay is quite strong.

Of course condi can be countered. Being able to counter something does not mean it's balanced. It's balanced if the effort to counter it remains in relations to the benefit it brings. Power was more than possible to get countered last meta, it simply took vast amounts of additional firebrands. It was still a power meta.

If you manage to get everyone on anti toxin runes, have 2 supports (1 fb and 1 condi cleanser) per group AND manage to stay compact, then yes, condi can be contested. So, is balance now stacking your entire 50 squad setup so that it can deal with a damage type?

There’s a meme skill that does those blasts and if stacked does some acceptable heals but just when spiked by several FBs, still it’s a meme skill ofc nobody will test it ;) it’s know for not carrying...If I recall waterblast are botlenecked at a certain value, but I’m talking about stack and blast light fields that also heal on a somewhat decent frontline, skill has. 1200 range, it doesn’t but to try.

But maybe it’s just some condis that are being to strong when stacked with that many, ic a lot of condis while on zerggy gameplay, in died to 5k or fire ticks while half hp, maybe players are stacking to much of same not obtaining betters results since boon stacking and classes end shadowing each other due that lack of variety that now can also work?

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"bigo.9037" said:So before patch hit everyone was saying condi was gonna be meta. Funny. I don't see any condi players. Mirage / necro was primary condi specs, and mirage got big nerf so I don't see much of those at all. Yea there are condi revs, but for blobs it's mostly the same, it seems. Fbs and necros with revenants.

And roaming? Dominated by rangers, thieves and guardians/ DH all playing power.1shot rangers and vault spamming thieves with an occasional condi dodger thief. Holos I don't see much of. Maybe warriors here and there but not really.

you forgot +1 shot Thief Profession

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98908/thief-still-hitting-for-5k#latest

Pssst: 5 k isn’t a one shot.....

[God.2708]

@Cyninja.2954 said:Of course condi can be countered. Being able to counter something does not mean it's balanced. It's balanced if the effort to counter it remains in relations to the benefit it brings. Power was more than possible to get countered last meta, it simply took vast amounts of additional firebrands. It was still a power meta.

If you manage to get everyone on anti toxin runes, have 2 supports (1 fb and 1 condi cleanser) per group AND manage to stay compact, then yes, condi can be contested. So, is balance now stacking your entire 50 squad setup so that it can deal with a damage type?

I'm pretty sure no amount of firebrands would have 'countered' your typical power comp. Aside from perhaps saying you could MI chain rez infinitely with enough FBs making the enemy spike pointless. But you couldn't kill the enemy back either. So no, it's not a counter, and that is why Power was meta.

It is perfectly feasible to create a composition to handle other condi groups. You might make yourself vulnerable to a different composition, but that would be balanced and acceptable. A large scale Rock Paper Scissors. Proposing condi needs to get nerfed because you can no longer run power is nothing more than rock shouting that paper is OP.

[Cyninja.2954]

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Of course condi can be countered. Being able to counter something does not mean it's balanced. It's balanced if the effort to counter it remains in relations to the benefit it brings. Power was more than possible to get countered last meta, it simply took vast amounts of additional firebrands. It was still a power meta.

If you manage to get everyone on anti toxin runes, have 2 supports (1 fb and 1 condi cleanser) per group AND manage to stay compact, then yes, condi can be contested. So, is balance now stacking your entire 50 squad setup so that it can deal with a damage type?

I'm pretty sure no amount of firebrands would have 'countered' your typical power comp. Aside from perhaps saying you could MI chain rez infinitely with enough FBs making the enemy spike pointless. But you couldn't kill the enemy back either. So no, it's not a counter, and that is why Power was meta.

It is perfectly feasible to create a composition to handle other condi groups. You might make yourself vulnerable to a different composition, but that would be balanced and acceptable. A large scale Rock Paper Scissors. Proposing condi needs to get nerfed because you can no longer run power is nothing more than rock shouting that paper is OP.

I never advocated for a condi meta to get nerfed. Go read my past responses in this thread. I clearly state that I welcome a condi meta for a while. I simply disagree that power and condi are balanced.

[schloumou.3982]

@KrHome.1920 said:Smallscale:

Condi rev is good but balanced. It shreds all the pesky attrition builds that have been present in the past which is great.

I think this is the dumbest thing I read in a while on this board.

[Aeolus.3615]

@schloumou.3982 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

Smallscale:

Condi rev is good but balanced. It shreds all the pesky attrition builds that have been present in the past which is great.

I think this is the dumbest thing I read in a while on this board.

Yet it’s far weaker than the condi rev before patch :/

I think people shout start paying attention to what condis they felt it become stronger after patch, or start discussing how and wich stats a condi armor/trinket/ weapon should exist or if the infinite stack system should be regulated.

[phreeak.1023]

Find burn DH in large scale rly fun. Putting Bow 4, purging flames and swords into the blob and insta 150k damage and 3-5k burn ticks everywhere. :D

[Aeolus.3615]

@phreeak.1023 said:Find burn DH in large scale rly fun. Putting Bow 4, purging flames and swords into the blob and insta 150k damage and 3-5k burn ticks everywhere. :D

Maybe some conditions need armor to affect them, that m8 balance fire ticks, but there’s always a but...

Altouth if something like this would happen resistance need to loose condi immunity and work like protection.

Add resistance maybe to ventari Tablet or jalis elite, and active gameplay m8 set balance for itselft.

Pulling from several condi sources with mallyx is also viable since mallyx will gain resistance, or enter with resistance bit delayed on to avoid get corrupted.

I still believe conditions are somewhat balanced when we use active combat, but some skills m8 be applying to much, but it’s hard to say that’s nor fair or fair, due the condi counters we have in team gameplay.

For small scale m8 be to strong, maybe if players want to burst condi certain condis need to make less stacks on target and now down targets over time rather than instant high tick.

Maybe the problem with condi it’s the fact that it’s a bit more easy to bunker since most stats are defensive, maybe conditions need to loose damage but stats condition will increase to cover for it while the stats That are not condi on that piece will be lower.

Imo it needs more time and people need to try more skills and builds.

[EUmad.7645]

Condi core engi, for roaming now can be a thing . If you go bomb, toolkit, elixr S elixir X you can have quite fan and it is not so underperforming. Instead condi for now are not imho great in zerging for the massive condicleanse organized zergs have. In that case with a condi setup you can only put aside and gang people out of the blob

[Aeolus.3615]

@EUmad.7645 said:Condi core engi, for roaming now can be a thing . If you go bomb, toolkit, elixr S elixir X you can have quite fan and it is not so underperforming. Instead condi for now are not imho great in zerging for the massive condicleanse organized zergs have. In that case with a condi setup you can only put aside and gang people out of the blob

Wich is strange cause people are trying to use condi zergs :)