WvW is amazing now

[Riba.3271]

My experience on this patchLot of enemies and fights last a while. There has even been lot of epic moments where 2 servers where doubleteaming the 3rd one which would have never happened in old 1-push meta.

Yea, there are lot of new players that follow the "zerg" instead of the commander which leads into lot of funny moments where commander is far away from his zerg. Imagine when these new players with their new found passion for WvW will integrate into server community bringing new passionate players, guilds and commanders to keep each and every day active. There were even days without a proper commander just because fighting wasn't really that fun....

Even heal firebrand is somewhat tolerable now that fights aren't over before you even get to pull out your justice tome.

Build diversity is also a thing now, condi/hybrid builds are arguably viable now, condis were nonexistant before. Reapers and core Necros can finally survive long enough in shroud for meta to not only be "shadebombs", stealth cheese and pirateship. I can play even shout spellbreaker and feel useful because there are actually condis to cleanse and fights last long enough for my shorter cooldowns to get some advantage over yolo stance builds. There is also stat diversity other than Berserker and Minstrel.

Overall this patch is amazing, it brings back so many things from that have been missing ever since PoF came out. I don't think it fixed all glaring issues, but at least the most important ones: fight quality and fun.

What I'd like to see next?Now what I'd like them to nerf next is duration of group stealth and strength of claim buff a bit. This is for purpose of increasing amount of fights and enemy objectives being approachable even with a dumber/smaller zerg. T3 keeps are still way too strong. Also mount stomp is a stupid RNG mechanic, the worst feeling is when one enemy just happens to join the fight with his mount when you or your teammate is down and finish a player that you would get otherwise up.

Regarding balance, I think "Break Enchantments" is little too strong right now. 4 (skill) + 1 (trait) AoE boon removal on 25 sec CD just goes against purpose of the recent changes. When 1 guy can essentially remove all boons from 5 people without coordinating with others, there is definitely a big issue. Fights will basically be decided by which side has better spellbreakers. I am sure there are other broken stuff, f/e I heard Scrapper is little overtuned still, that I haven't noticed yet. At least blood magic feels busted due to siphoning not getting nerfed yet.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

I don’t think you actually play large scale. The Meta hadn’t changed much, it’s just condi now.

People think antitoxin will save them is a huge joke to me and it should be pretty obvious why it won’t work to counter the condo meta.

Build diversity took a nose dive, as most builds in large scale became completely non-viable.

If there is one thing I do enjoy, it’s the implementation of the warclaw aura, which helps new players without a warclaw. And 2v2 I enjoy.

[Styles.7469]

Large scale is all anyone is willing to run now, because for some reason we were told doing less of everything and taking more time to even engage is more exciting and rewarding (what rewards?) than how we've been used to playing for the past several years. There are alot of genuinely good players that took a lot of time and put more effort into working on their builds and playing skillfully than most people have put hours into getting good at understanding basic mechanics for PvE. Conditions are now at their absolute worst, when clearly the non-casual, actual WvW players have been strongly suggesting that they are and have always been a problem since the terribly executed 25-stack cap removal. Now that Power is down and some skills are literally only doing 10-20 damage, you straight up cannot run certain weapons or traits because they are wholly ineffectual versus ANY class, build, or player.

The meta is entirely different because now all you have to do is walk into a giant blob and walk out of it and pulse conditions, with 30+ people around you. Less damage...who actually wants to do less damage? Push a little, pull all the way out, push a little, pull all the way out...yeah...so fun and engaging, makes for great gameplay =/

Good players are to be punished for playing smart, playing well, and having a good build? Seems stupid to me. =/ All these trash players keep getting rewarded for playing terribly, and that's a clear issue which doesn't seem to get addressed as often as it needs to; inclusivity is not the way to keep a dying player population by force feeding us some weird, pointless "balance" patch. We've voiced what we want, and what we may need. Where was this community driven vote or poll that even suggested we needed that? Oh...wait...those don't matter either, projects move forward and are only announced when it is decided for us and nearly finished before they even release the polls.

Why less sustain and nerfed heals? A lot of nerds saying you shouldn't be able to do massive damage and also sustain...ok...ever stop to think maybe that player is actually just better than you? I know it's a hard concept to swallow, but it's the truth, there are players better than you that are just going to beat you every time. People driven by the desire to roam solo or 2v2 took a massive hit. You don't have to play skillfully anymore, you just have to get lucky now. Playing skillfully means pressing 1 for the most damage and who can stack the most conditions fastest.

Boons...yeah. Lets counterplay the counterplayable counterplays. Stability is still useless in WvW ever since it was changed over to what it is now.

There is practically no build diversity. At this point why not just force us to use the same trash amulets sPvP has? Because force changing the way we have to play is doing almost the same thing? At least then we'll know what to expect from the game mode that has gotten the least amount of attention overall, but somehow has been told we need these changes the most (hmm...)

If group A has three bricks, and Group B has one brick, and you cut ALL bricks in half, Group A still has three times as many bricks as Group B...so where is this "balance" coming from when things still very clearly favor mindless, skill-less blobbing? There are so few groups now that can actually contest double their numbers...this is honestly the most disappointing patch that's been released, and a lot of people are fooling themselves into thinking it's good because they either don't know any better or they're just too willing to accept the lesser of two evils. Frankly this game isn't much worth playing anymore, and that's a huge disappointment because for like seven years now on multiple posts we've been told they're laying the foundation for something greater in the future.

Still waiting...=/

[Riba.3271]

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:I don’t think you actually play large scale. The Meta hadn’t changed much, it’s just condi now.

People think antitoxin will save them is a huge joke to me and it should be pretty obvious why it won’t work to counter the condo meta.

Build diversity took a nose dive, as most builds in large scale became completely non-viable.

If there is one thing I do enjoy, it’s the implementation of the warclaw aura, which helps new players without a warclaw. And 2v2 I enjoy.

Who says antitoxin saves them? It only increases incoming condi cleanses by 1. Anyone running those runes is trolling. Scrapper still cleanses a ton, tempest cleanses a lot, scourge cleanses even more. It isn't a condi meta, just your party members aren't cleansing you. Just run trooper runes on tempests (10 man cleanse shouts), maybe some warhorns on spellbreakers (more 10 man cleanse!). Most condi builds are a joke against resistance. As a condi blob you will lose headon clash to powerblob running "shake it off!" instantly.

Condi isn't a problem, just it exists now on smaller/unorganized scale. Yes most of the time if you're dying, you most likely have some conditions on you, but it isn't the conditions killing you, it is the power damage. Literally add 1 decent firebrand in your group and it makes half your frontline immune to the "condiclouds".

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Threather.9354 said:

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:I don’t think you actually play large scale. The Meta hadn’t changed much, it’s just condi now.

People think antitoxin will save them is a huge joke to me and it should be pretty obvious why it won’t work to counter the condo meta.

Build diversity took a nose dive, as most builds in large scale became completely non-viable.

If there is one thing I do enjoy, it’s the implementation of the warclaw aura, which helps new players without a warclaw. And 2v2 I enjoy.

Who says antitoxin saves them? It only increases incoming condi cleanses by 1. Anyone running those runes is trolling. Scrapper still cleanses a ton, tempest cleanses a lot, scourge cleanses even more. It isn't a condi meta, just your party members aren't cleansing you. Just run trooper runes on tempests (10 man cleanse shouts), maybe some warhorns on spellbreakers (more 10 man cleanse!). Most condi builds are a joke against resistance. As a condi blob you will lose headon clash to powerblob running "shake it off!" instantly.

Condi isn't a problem, just it exists now on smaller/unorganized scale. Yes most of the time if you're dying, you most likely have some conditions on you, but it isn't the conditions killing you, it is the power damage. Literally add 1 decent firebrand in your group and it makes half your frontline immune to the "Condiclouds”

You misunderstand. Im not dying to the condi-cloud, I’m the one running the condi-cloud.

And again you don’t do large scale, otherwise you would know that firebrand isn’t what keeps conditions off of your party.

[Riba.3271]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:I don’t think you actually play large scale. The Meta hadn’t changed much, it’s just condi now.

People think antitoxin will save them is a huge joke to me and it should be pretty obvious why it won’t work to counter the condo meta.

Build diversity took a nose dive, as most builds in large scale became completely non-viable.

If there is one thing I do enjoy, it’s the implementation of the warclaw aura, which helps new players without a warclaw. And 2v2 I enjoy.

Who says antitoxin saves them? It only increases incoming condi cleanses by 1. Anyone running those runes is trolling. Scrapper still cleanses a ton, tempest cleanses a lot, scourge cleanses even more. It isn't a condi meta, just your party members aren't cleansing you. Just run trooper runes on tempests (10 man cleanse shouts), maybe some warhorns on spellbreakers (more 10 man cleanse!). Most condi builds are a joke against resistance. As a condi blob you will lose headon clash to powerblob running "shake it off!" instantly.

Condi isn't a problem, just it exists now on smaller/unorganized scale. Yes most of the time if you're dying, you most likely have some conditions on you, but it isn't the conditions killing you, it is the power damage. Literally add 1 decent firebrand in your group and it makes half your frontline immune to the "Condiclouds”

You misunderstand. Im not dying to the condi-cloud, I’m the one running the condi-cloud.

And again you don’t do large scale, otherwise you would know that firebrand isn’t what keeps conditions off of your party.

Hehe, I think I better know if I do large scale. But yeah, I know Firebrand isn't the main cleanse but is still the most important role for frontline to be able to push. (Resi fields, stab, cleanse, heals)Anyways if you run condi cloud and having success, I doubt you're fighting real strong blobs and just farming the influx of PvE players this week. Or maybe you're one of those comms that play full defensive gameplay with acs and other siege as you can't cloud in most enemy objectives. Obviously you will have higher winrate like that.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Threather.9354 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:I don’t think you actually play large scale. The Meta hadn’t changed much, it’s just condi now.

People think antitoxin will save them is a huge joke to me and it should be pretty obvious why it won’t work to counter the condo meta.

Build diversity took a nose dive, as most builds in large scale became completely non-viable.

If there is one thing I do enjoy, it’s the implementation of the warclaw aura, which helps new players without a warclaw. And 2v2 I enjoy.

Who says antitoxin saves them? It only increases incoming condi cleanses by 1. Anyone running those runes is trolling. Scrapper still cleanses a ton, tempest cleanses a lot, scourge cleanses even more. It isn't a condi meta, just your party members aren't cleansing you. Just run trooper runes on tempests (10 man cleanse shouts), maybe some warhorns on spellbreakers (more 10 man cleanse!). Most condi builds are a joke against resistance. As a condi blob you will lose headon clash to powerblob running "shake it off!" instantly.

Condi isn't a problem, just it exists now on smaller/unorganized scale. Yes most of the time if you're dying, you most likely have some conditions on you, but it isn't the conditions killing you, it is the power damage. Literally add 1 decent firebrand in your group and it makes half your frontline immune to the "Condiclouds”

You misunderstand. Im not dying to the condi-cloud, I’m the one running the condi-cloud.

And again you don’t do large scale, otherwise you would know that firebrand isn’t what keeps conditions off of your party.

Hehe, I think I better know if I do large scale. But yeah, I know Firebrand isn't the main cleanse but is still the most important role for frontline to be able to push. (Resi fields, stab, cleanse, heals)Anyways if you run condi cloud and having success, I doubt you're fighting real strong blobs and just farming the influx of PvE players this week. Or maybe you're one of those comms that play full defensive gameplay with acs and other siege as you can't cloud in most enemy objectives. Obviously you will have higher winrate like that.

I’m just using your terminology “condi-cloud”

I’ve done plenty of GVG’s since patch and by now it’s obvious what’s winning out and it’s condi bro sorry to say. It’s not pirateship either it’s the same boon push meta as before just with condi

[Kovu.7560]

I'm blazing a trail on my scourge this week. =3

~ Kovu

[Anput.4620]

Impossible to cleave downeds outnumbered now.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

with divinergade how could condi be effective, especially with the boon rip nerfs? maybe you guys are spamming your condi clears and not rotating them. your commander should have the team rotate cds. its one of the most basic jobs of a commander in a game like this. look for the power skills that weren't nerfed. they're there if you look. also maybe try new comps, builds etc.

[Ragi.7291]

@Threather.9354completely agree with you that this patch is really good.We can finally have real fights and where the fights are not decided in 10s on who bombs fastest correctly.The skill of the player is really rewarded especially in roaming, to make 1V5 before it was impossible your build carries you, now the skill of the player makes really a huge difference.One of the big thing that I noticed it is the CC, they pass finally!!! with nerf of the stab.And of course nerf of mount which is a very good thing,it would be necessary now to remove damages on skill 1 of mount.

After all isn't perfect, full of traits, skills, weapons are useless anymore and they will have to be reworked very quickly.Some classes don't have any explosiveness anymore.Other classes such as FB is still a big problem in WvW and PvP.And stealth in WvW + sign of the assassin and stealth attack that always one shot, are still a problem.Let's hope there are patches very soon.

@Cal Cohen.2358Bravo and good luck for the rest.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Anput.4620 said:Impossible to cleave downeds outnumbered now.Literally everyone prepatch: Yeah so condi scale pretty badly large scale.

People postpatch going condi: surprised pikachu face

[Junkpile.7439]

Same boring kitten than before, but now zerglings have even more easy time.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Threather.9354 said:

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:I don’t think you actually play large scale. The Meta hadn’t changed much, it’s just condi now.

People think antitoxin will save them is a huge joke to me and it should be pretty obvious why it won’t work to counter the condo meta.

Build diversity took a nose dive, as most builds in large scale became completely non-viable.

If there is one thing I do enjoy, it’s the implementation of the warclaw aura, which helps new players without a warclaw. And 2v2 I enjoy.

Who says antitoxin saves them? It only increases incoming condi cleanses by 1. Anyone running those runes is trolling. Scrapper still cleanses a ton, tempest cleanses a lot, scourge cleanses even more. It isn't a condi meta, just your party members aren't cleansing you. Just run trooper runes on tempests (10 man cleanse shouts), maybe some warhorns on spellbreakers (more 10 man cleanse!). Most condi builds are a joke against resistance. As a condi blob you will lose headon clash to powerblob running "shake it off!" instantly.

Condi isn't a problem, just it exists now on smaller/unorganized scale. Yes most of the time if you're dying, you most likely have some conditions on you, but it isn't the conditions killing you, it is the power damage. Literally add 1 decent firebrand in your group and it makes half your frontline immune to the "condiclouds".

I have no problem killing people with a condition bomb, even if the group has 1-2 firebrands. Unless every group I faced has firebrands that are terrible. It's a lot easier now to kill groups with conditions. The problem is though, Anet can't simply just reduce condition damage, it has to equate to that which power puts out, but because resistance exists and can technically nullify conditions all together, Anet can't touch the damage.

So the only way to avoid condition damage is groups have to get really good and rotating resistance and somehow avoid boon corrupts. This has never consistently been pulled off. So Anet (and the players that support the patch), basically shot themselves in the foot. Condition damage can't be tweaked, so the only option is, is to raise the damage back up again. Will that happen? No, so players are simply going to have to live with condition damage the way it is. At best, all they can do is shorten the condition duration, but then damage has to be raised, and more often than not, conditions don't tick for any length of time in clashes, it's the condition bomb that kills the player in 1-2s, not the duration.

[bigo.9037]

@"Styles.7469" said:Large scale is all anyone is willing to run now, because for some reason we were told doing less of everything and taking more time to even engage is more exciting and rewarding (what rewards?) than how we've been used to playing for the past several years. There are alot of genuinely good players that took a lot of time and put more effort into working on their builds and playing skillfully than most people have put hours into getting good at understanding basic mechanics for PvE. Conditions are now at their absolute worst, when clearly the non-casual, actual WvW players have been strongly suggesting that they are and have always been a problem since the terribly executed 25-stack cap removal. Now that Power is down and some skills are literally only doing 10-20 damage, you straight up cannot run certain weapons or traits because they are wholly ineffectual versus ANY class, build, or player.

The meta is entirely different because now all you have to do is walk into a giant blob and walk out of it and pulse conditions, with 30+ people around you. Less damage...who actually wants to do less damage? Push a little, pull all the way out, push a little, pull all the way out...yeah...so fun and engaging, makes for great gameplay =/

Good players are to be punished for playing smart, playing well, and having a good build? Seems stupid to me. =/ All these trash players keep getting rewarded for playing terribly, and that's a clear issue which doesn't seem to get addressed as often as it needs to; inclusivity is not the way to keep a dying player population by force feeding us some weird, pointless "balance" patch. We've voiced what we want, and what we may need. Where was this community driven vote or poll that even suggested we needed that? Oh...wait...those don't matter either, projects move forward and are only announced when it is decided for us and nearly finished before they even release the polls.

Why less sustain and nerfed heals? A lot of nerds saying you shouldn't be able to do massive damage and also sustain...ok...ever stop to think maybe that player is actually just better than you? I know it's a hard concept to swallow, but it's the truth, there are players better than you that are just going to beat you every time. People driven by the desire to roam solo or 2v2 took a massive hit. You don't have to play skillfully anymore, you just have to get lucky now. Playing skillfully means pressing 1 for the most damage and who can stack the most conditions fastest.

Boons...yeah. Lets counterplay the counterplayable counterplays. Stability is still useless in WvW ever since it was changed over to what it is now.

There is practically no build diversity. At this point why not just force us to use the same trash amulets sPvP has? Because force changing the way we have to play is doing almost the same thing? At least then we'll know what to expect from the game mode that has gotten the least amount of attention overall, but somehow has been told we need these changes the most (hmm...)

If group A has three bricks, and Group B has one brick, and you cut ALL bricks in half, Group A still has three times as many bricks as Group B...so where is this "balance" coming from when things still very clearly favor mindless, skill-less blobbing? There are so few groups now that can actually contest double their numbers...this is honestly the most disappointing patch that's been released, and a lot of people are fooling themselves into thinking it's good because they either don't know any better or they're just too willing to accept the lesser of two evils. Frankly this game isn't much worth playing anymore, and that's a huge disappointment because for like seven years now on multiple posts we've been told they're laying the foundation for something greater in the future.

Still waiting...=/

I kind of agree in some ways, but disagree in other ways.

I don't blob or zerg. Only sometimes for wxp. I just roam solo and with friends.

So far, because of real life, I haven't gotten to play with my friends yet. But from what I've experienced solo so far is this:

Now, playing a full dps version of my build seems like a good idea as people not having passives to save them means I can outplay them for just 1 or 2 weapon rotation and they will be dead, whereas before it would usually take longer.But on the other hand, say I was fighting 1v1, and another enemy joins in. Now it's a little bit harder to pull off, as my options are limited. I have LESS overall skills to use (like your brick analogy), and so do they.

But because I'm outnumbered and have already used some of my cooldowns to down the first guy, I now have less options of making a comeback at the 2nd guy, because I have less skills to use.Before, because I am in this example better than both of them, I could outplay the 2nd guy right away as I had more skills available and I'm better at using them, than my enemies are (who also had more skills).

EDIT:

Ofc when the first guy goes down, it is now easier to burst and kill the person trying to res. That is very true. BUT, what you will see is people's strategy will change from going for the res since they can get carried by passives, to just going straight for YOU instead since your skill bar is full of cooldowns.

So it's bad and good.1 guy will go down much faster/easier than before (obvious outliers are necros and FB's cus they are just broken rn), but generally fighting outnumbered vs more players is harder as even tho you're better than them, you have less options after the nerfs.

[briggah.7910]

still a braindead spam button game mode but now u live a little longer to spam more buttons. population still out of balance. patch was worth 1 day of playing then realizing nothing really changed with the game mode

[jaif.3518]

I've been trying different classes under different circumstances. I think the current situation is much better than it was pre-patch. I'd like to see more skill and class balancing now, but I think they definitely improved things in terms of build variety.

[Nikola.3841]

I saw the title and expected this to be a joke post.

Disappointed

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

A true balance would be for out numbered groups/BL’s to still have downstate while the huge blobs have NO downstate. THAT would make more sense than the way things still are. imo

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@Nikola.3841 said:I saw the title and expected this to be a joke post.

Disappointed

same... also wth; blob fights barely changed. it becomes a bit more pushes since there's tons of cc around to stop one or two if the booncleanse worked, and there are different damage sets appearing compared to before update, plus some annoying stuff takes longer to kill for many classes.

it got worse to fight with inferior numbers against bigger groups, even 10~ ppl difference can be felt harder than you would before.

[Justine.6351]

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:A true balance would be for out numbered groups/BL’s to still have downstate while the huge blobs have NO downstate. THAT would make more sense than the way things still are. imo

Too much volatility in play and would cause a lot of toxic chat "get off our map!".

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Balthazzarr.1349" said:A true balance would be for out numbered groups/BL’s to still have downstate while the huge blobs have NO downstate. THAT would make more sense than the way things still are. imo

Too much volatility in play and would cause a lot of toxic chat "get off our map!".

...sobs...

[UNOwen.7132]

I cant say much about zerg fights (because theyve never really been my thing), but from what Ive heard not much has changed there. Roaming however feels worse. Its either oneshot builds like various shatter mesmers (that managed to retain their ability to oneshot), condi spam builds that are just unfun to fight, or bunker builds that dont die.

[Excursion.9752]

Fights have been decent. My only complaint is that trying to take a Tier 3 that is being contested feels a bit overwhelming at times. You get a steady stream of bags for a while until they chip you down enough to wipe your group. So the TTK while good in open field situations is fun but a bit annoying in a contested ring. Also the siege damage needs to be toned down vs players along with the dragon banners.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Styles.7469 said:Why less sustain and nerfed heals?I couldn't bother with all the other stuff, but this part is actually pretty important. Optics are more important than they may seem at surface value. If a (new-) player is going to enjoy the game and see any reason to try to improve themselves they need to feel like they have a chance, even in defeat, even if the difference between them and their opponent(s) is vast. The problem with any situation where there is no mitigation or mediation and damage is only counterbalanced by healing is that it ends up very exclusive. Players who lose will see their opponents as invincible. They will see strong healers come away with 100% hp. The will see strong damage dealers come away with 100% hp. That's a problem. Things become exclusive. It makes people complain more about class balances. It makes many stats and items redundant. It also makes balancing the game more difficult since unmitigated figures are more volatile, so small tweaks get vast impacts.

That doesn't mean that changing it only has positives. I can feel the negatives as much as the next guy. There are fewer plays that you can make to get out of unfavourable situations now. It makes it harder to fight undermanned as there are fewer force multipliers etc. I enjoy doing that stuff so I can feel it. Numbers are more valuable now, population balance becomes more of an issue in gameplay, not just in scoring etc. It's just that doing some change along these lines was necessary to reign the game back in so it doesn't discourage players from playing (and risk losing) and make worse players feel worthless or let the developers have an easier time balancing it going forward.

It's a pretty odd value to attribute to something, but a world with more mitigation lets you feel like you made a dent and makes it more fun to lose. Someone has to lose in a PvP mode, it should be natural, not crippling or otherwise discouraging. That is still the #1 hurdle to get into WvW. People who are not used to losing are afraid of it. They don't see it as the thing that makes winning sweet and gives winning any value. The same goes for helping others, if there is no risk or perceived impact involved people get complacent.

The cold hard reality is that this is more how things worked in vanilla. This is more what the game was designed for.