Please change noglide and nomount zones for JPs

[WorldofBay.8160]

hey,i'm quite a fan of the JPs in this game, the effort that went into them and i want to do them the way they were intended. actually i want to be forced to do them the way they're intended, i'm not that much a fan of playing intentionally bad and i'm kind of a pioneer in searching routes around the map.

the thing is that many JPs don't have working block zones, let's call it "no fly zone" because airtime is the biggest issue, so it fits.

1. Troll's Revengethe (in)famous JP in LA is a great one that made quite some fun and completing this long and sometimes hard one has felt truly good, especially for people with lower jumping skills. well it did so years ago. there has been the LA out of bounds glitch or a big big group of mesmers for people that just wanted to get the achievement for free but nothing right in front of your eyes. then gliding got introduced and this JP received no no fly zone at all, so intentional or accidental gliding made quite the difference. with the introduction of the springer however you can now just jump to each chest separately, heck rolan's field has become a fast and easy way to complete the daily kryta forager! this JP has pretty much no reason to exist any more and it's sad to see this.so how do we fix it? that's a tough call as on one side LA doesn't need to allow mounts or gliders at any point but on the other side a huge majority will be affected for the sake of probably just a very small group. best call is to put the no fly zone over most of LA in a specific height that is about halfway up the houses or just entirely delete the achievement as there is nothing left to achieve.

2. Grendich Gamblewhile this one has never been a true JP with the abscence of a chest, it is skippable on the whole with gliders or halfway with the springer.the no fly zone needs to be bigger to draw the springer out and extended onto gliding to cut the fly from the "cow tower" short.

3. Wall Breach Blitzon wall breach blitz you can enter the wall on several points with the springer but the most notable one is that you can just jump on the basis of the last stairway. from that point it is just walking to the end and if necessary a jump to the vista.expand the no fly zone.

4. Professor Portmatt's Labpossibly one of the more hated ones because it is actually a puzzle this one can also be entirely skipped very easy with a springer, a griffon and the bond of faith. simply climb the lighthouse on stormbluff isle and fly over. use the bond to jump off of the griffon just before the no fly zone and you'll land right on the end chest. you're dead but you still get it counted as completed.expand the no fly zone up in the sky

5. Loreclaw Expansethis JP contains a tiger den. you can use your springer to jump to that tiger den and skip the first half of the JP. however, if you don't need the tiger den, you can just skip the entirety and use your springer to jump to the boss room.expand the no fly zone around both those exits. also please please remove armor damage from the flamethrowers in this JP, JPs should not damage your armor on death.

6. Skipping Stonesprobably the hardest central tyrian JP for slow jumpers. that makes it even more stupid that you can skip this JP as a whole with your springer if you jump on the little champ riffrider/blooming passiflora isle that should only be accessible via JP and then walk back over the shipwreck to the end chest.expand the no fly zone north of the isle.

7. Hidden Gardenanother JP without any no fly zone. sad.

8. Hexfoundry Unhingedsame here. mounts are blocked but gliders aren't and skip a lot.

9. Tribulation Rift Scaffoldingagain a JP where you can just use your springer to jump straight to the chest.expand the no fly zone.

as you see, many of these JPs do have a no fly zone that does exactly nothing because it lacks in a specific area, whitch mitigates the reason why they're there completely.

as a player that played before HoT release all of these things are so sad to see. the JPs were nice ideas and it might've taken quite some effort to fit them into the game, but they became more and more wasted. now is the time to look into it, now that a lot of people wait for a new expansion is the ideal time to make sure this new expansion and all the older ones don't obstruct the challenge for potential new players.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Thanks for all the tips on how to cheese these JPs. :mrgreen:

[kharmin.7683]

Why does this matter? The way in which players do JPs in no way affects other players' ability to do them or the achievement when they complete them. I think the no-zones are terrible and should be removed. If I want to reach a point using a mount or glider, I should be allowed to do so. My accomplishment does not affect any other player or their reward.

[WorldofBay.8160]

@kharmin.7683 said:Why does this matter? The way in which players do JPs in no way affects other players' ability to do them or the achievement when they complete them. I think the no-zones are terrible and should be removed. If I want to reach a point using a mount or glider, I should be allowed to do so. My accomplishment does not affect any other player or their reward.

with that argument you could argue that there should be a vendor that sells cultural armor for 1c each because it doesn't affect the others how you got that achievement right?

if there weren't the achievements i would agree, but anyways there are those block zones and they don't work. this is an issue and whatever the solution is, there needs to be one because a malfunctioning block zone is just annoying and laughable, it sheds a bad light on the game.

but apart from that: once you unlock gliding you can't unequip it. i currently have a character i want to get as far as possible without my masteries or anything elso from the rest of my account and i often glide by accident because holding the space just a tad too long opens the glider. so there is an issue that JPs without a proper noglide zone actually affect people that want to complete the JP the way it was intended just because their glider opens automatically.

[Westenev.5289]

Personally, I think it'd be cool if Anet added motes or adventures to checkpints of JP's. These motes would prevent riding a mount, but would allow a person to complete the jumping puzzle (or achieve the daily).

Then Anet can remove no fly zones.

@kharmin.7683 said:Why does this matter? The way in which players do JPs in no way affects other players' ability to do them or the achievement when they complete them. I think the no-zones are terrible and should be removed. If I want to reach a point using a mount or glider, I should be allowed to do so. My accomplishment does not affect any other player or their reward.

The problem is, future jumping puzzles have to be designed around the mobility tools players have. If players have access to a skyscale, they aren't very likely to engage with the jumping puzzle. The result will be disappointing for fans of jp's who feel no accomplishment, and a 10 second inconvenience for everyone else. Nobody wins here.

It's like having a button that instantly wins a game of pvp (for both teams). You don't HAVE to use it, but most players will just because it's there.

[Funky.4861]

I'm completely against this, even though i did most of these before mounts and gliding were introduced. The reason: one players' preferences should not dictate how other people complete (mostly) optional content. If i want to do Dark Reverie the cheesy way i can- it takes knowing where to go and what to use to get in there without doing the laborious jp itself. Next you're going to say that TACO should be banned...

[Gundahar.2765]

^ Lol true. Indeed helpful. I want to add, there was this JP thats been fixed against gliding or shortcuting. Well, I found another shortcut and also with the help of a springer. Double trouble. Shall I spill the beans?

[Luthan.5236]

I don't really care. I like to to the JPs the intended way. Especially the ones where the path is obvious (and the jumps are harder) are fun to to the normal way.If players want to avoid the "work" they just have to wait for them to be on daily and using a mesmer port. Changing no fly and no glide zones won't prevent the players from using portals.

(Tbh I would have preferred if it never had been possible to use mesmer portals. But since a lot of people already did it that way ... there is no use in making it harder now for other players. They also should have the same chance then.)

[Taril.8619]

No mount zones are already egregious as it is, often interrupting mounting for players whom are nowhere close to the JP (Due to how it seems to have been haphazardly painted across the map rather than applied specifically to the JP and the areas surrounding it)

As such, I'm against adding more in. Not to mention, most people just cheese them with Mesmer (Or Feef in a pinch) portals anyway so it's not as if such restrictions are actually making people do the JP more (If these things were stopped then I guess people would go to using Teleport to Friend)

@WorldofBay.8160 said:but apart from that: once you unlock gliding you can't unequip it. i currently have a character i want to get as far as possible without my masteries or anything elso from the rest of my account and i often glide by accident because holding the space just a tad too long opens the glider. so there is an issue that JPs without a proper noglide zone actually affect people that want to complete the JP the way it was intended just because their glider opens automatically.

This would be better fixed by adding in the function to allow Glider to be bound to a separate key and also have a toggle similar to Mounts to disable using Spacebar to activate.

Which would be nice anyway for the JP's where Gliding is used as part of it (LW3 JP's for example) where having access to Glide is important but sometimes can get in the way for small jumps.

[aaron.7850]

Agreed, Mounts ruined WoW and now they have ruined Tyria... this is why HoT was a much more memorable expansion than PoF was.If mounts are here to stay.. fine, but you shouldnt be able to mount indoors or anywhere near jumping puzzles

[Sir Alric.5078]

@"WorldofBay.8160" said:hey,i'm quite a fan of the JPs in this game, the effort that went into them and i want to do them the way they were intended. actually i want to be forced to do them the way they're intended, i'm not that much a fan of playing intentionally bad and i'm kind of a pioneer in searching routes around the map.

You can do that already. You can force yourself not to use the glider or the mounts and enjoy the jumping puzzles the way they are intended. You can have your fun without taking alternative options away from other people. This "I don't like X so i want to make it so nobody else can use it" mentality needs to stop. Do your thing and let other players do theirs. I also enjoy JPs and have completed all of them (except for three that i only finished thanks to kind mesmers) several times the legit way, but sometimes i just want to quickly get my daily done and move on to other things.

[Teratus.2859]

Against this too.

Many of us long time players have done all the JP's hundreds of times.. so much in fact that a lot of the fun has pretty much diminished from them.Speaking from personal experience one of the things I find most enjoyable about these old JP's today is actually finding ways to get around the No Fly/Mount thing and beat old content in ways I couldn't years ago.Unlike the Jumping Puzzles themselves which i've done so many times, getting around the restrictions actually makes me think more and experiment, and sometimes that requires more effort than the puzzle itself which for me personally refreshes this old content in a lot of ways and keeps it fun.It's quite literally more satisfying to beat a JP this way than it is to do it the same way I did it years ago.. and if I ever feel like doing it the old way I still can too.

Just because other people like to find other ways to beat a JP, it doesn't effect you in the slightest.If you want to beat them normally you can, nobody is stopping you doing that, and nobody is stopping new players either.

Even if Anet did put more effort into stopping people doing this.. I can assure you it would not stop them anymore than it does now.All Anet will have done is make it more of a challenge to overcome the restrictions and trust me here when I say.. that challenge would still be more fun for some of us than the JP itself.

The last big elephant in the room too is Mesmer Portals.For years Mesmers have been porting people to the ends of JP's, Minidungeons, Dive spots and all sorts of other things..Mesmer Portals have also been a long time safety net for JP runners too and frankly I really don't see any difference between using a Mesmer Portal in JP's and using Mounts.They're both cheap ways to circumvent a Jumping Puzzles "intended" method of completion.. if anything Mesmer Portals are even worse offenders than Mounts for this and always have been.

[Dante.1763]

im against this, i completed all the jumping puzzles the normal way, aside from the new one in LA because..ew. When they added mounts i finally went back and got all the collections for those jumping puzzles that got added after the fact. I dont mind jumping puzzles the first time i have to do it, anytime i need to go back i want to get it over with. Also having my running or flying interrupted by a stupid invisible zone in the middle of the map. Doesnt help that they make no sense, some are blocked right at the puzzle, some are blocked 3 miles away.

TBH outside of the jumping puzzles in Draconis Mons and Ember Bay id rather see all the zones removed. Your gameplay is in no way affected by others wanting to do the puzzle with mounts. Unless you are a mesmer porter and you made money with that for years and even then at the moment the puzzles that use that the most are currently the ones that dont allow mounts.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@"WorldofBay.8160" said:hey,i'm quite a fan of the JPs in this game, the effort that went into them and i want to do them the way they were intended. actually i want to be forced to do them the way they're intended, i'm not that much a fan of playing intentionally bad and i'm kind of a pioneer in searching routes around the map.

the thing is that many JPs don't have working block zones, let's call it "no fly zone" because airtime is the biggest issue, so it fits.

1. Troll's Revengethe (in)famous JP in LA is a great one that made quite some fun and completing this long and sometimes hard one has felt truly good, especially for people with lower jumping skills. well it did so years ago. there has been the LA out of bounds glitch or a big big group of mesmers for people that just wanted to get the achievement for free but nothing right in front of your eyes. then gliding got introduced and this JP received no no fly zone at all, so intentional or accidental gliding made quite the difference. with the introduction of the springer however you can now just jump to each chest separately, heck rolan's field has become a fast and easy way to complete the daily kryta forager! this JP has pretty much no reason to exist any more and it's sad to see this.so how do we fix it? that's a tough call as on one side LA doesn't need to allow mounts or gliders at any point but on the other side a huge majority will be affected for the sake of probably just a very small group. best call is to put the no fly zone over most of LA in a specific height that is about halfway up the houses or just entirely delete the achievement as there is nothing left to achieve.

2. Grendich Gamblewhile this one has never been a true JP with the abscence of a chest, it is skippable on the whole with gliders or halfway with the springer.the no fly zone needs to be bigger to draw the springer out and extended onto gliding to cut the fly from the "cow tower" short.

3. Wall Breach Blitzon wall breach blitz you can enter the wall on several points with the springer but the most notable one is that you can just jump on the basis of the last stairway. from that point it is just walking to the end and if necessary a jump to the vista.expand the no fly zone.

4. Professor Portmatt's Labpossibly one of the more hated ones because it is actually a puzzle this one can also be entirely skipped very easy with a springer, a griffon and the bond of faith. simply climb the lighthouse on stormbluff isle and fly over. use the bond to jump off of the griffon just before the no fly zone and you'll land right on the end chest. you're dead but you still get it counted as completed.expand the no fly zone up in the sky

5. Loreclaw Expansethis JP contains a tiger den. you can use your springer to jump to that tiger den and skip the first half of the JP. however, if you don't need the tiger den, you can just skip the entirety and use your springer to jump to the boss room.expand the no fly zone around both those exits. also please please remove armor damage from the flamethrowers in this JP, JPs should not damage your armor on death.

6. Skipping Stonesprobably the hardest central tyrian JP for slow jumpers. that makes it even more stupid that you can skip this JP as a whole with your springer if you jump on the little champ riffrider/blooming passiflora isle that should only be accessible via JP and then walk back over the shipwreck to the end chest.expand the no fly zone north of the isle.

7. Hidden Gardenanother JP without any no fly zone. sad.

8. Hexfoundry Unhingedsame here. mounts are blocked but gliders aren't and skip a lot.

9. Tribulation Rift Scaffoldingagain a JP where you can just use your springer to jump straight to the chest.expand the no fly zone.

as you see, many of these JPs do have a no fly zone that does exactly nothing because it lacks in a specific area, whitch mitigates the reason why they're there completely.

as a player that played before HoT release all of these things are so sad to see. the JPs were nice ideas and it might've taken quite some effort to fit them into the game, but they became more and more wasted. now is the time to look into it, now that a lot of people wait for a new expansion is the ideal time to make sure this new expansion and all the older ones don't obstruct the challenge for potential new players.

What about those players that cheese it by getting a port from a mesmer? If you personally don't want to cheese it with mounts/gliders then don't. You're not forced to do it.

[pninak.1069]

another option would be to create no-skill no-mount no-glide zones during the first playthrough of a jp. but this just means that newcomers still have the option to get ported by a mesmer. but are forced to do it normally if no mesmer is present. in consecutive playthroughs the zones no longer exist.

[Cobrakon.3108]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Thanks for all the tips on how to cheese these JPs. :mrgreen:

Did someone mention cheesing the JPs?

[WorldofBay.8160]

@pninak.1069 said:another option would be to create no-skill no-mount no-glide zones during the first playthrough of a jp. but this just means that newcomers still have the option to get ported by a mesmer. but are forced to do it normally if no mesmer is present. in consecutive playthroughs the zones no longer exist.

this sounds interesting albeit not doable i fear ...

i have no objections against helping hands and easy times on a second playthrough. just those zones don't do what they should on one hand and on the other hand you have all those 10 point achievements that were meant to be a challenge that go down the drain.i got to admit i hated mounts from the start and i will never like them but this is probably their worst impact.

removing the achievements and all no fly zones would also just do it, change the JPs to mini dungeons, they still serve their purpose as dailies but no more than that. my gildies and me did the hidden JPs in lost precipice and gilded hollow right when we discovered them. no reward? who cares, it is fun and i want to thank the map designers for their effort by actually playing their creations.

[SexyMofo.8923]

None of them are worth doing.

[WorldofBay.8160]

@Westenev.5289 said:Personally, I think it'd be cool if Anet added motes or adventures to checkpints of JP's. These motes would prevent riding a mount, but would allow a person to complete the jumping puzzle (or achieve the daily).

JPs as adventure may sound good in the first moment but then the daily JP becomes really annoying for lots of players. i would prefer a solution that doesn't make dailies worse. i care more about the achievements and the challenge because the achievements say something and the challenge is fun. there is more than enough content that is no challenge. it is sad to see that so many people disagree to keep one of the very optional challenges an actual challenge. one of the things that don't need you to grind or spend a lot of money (cultural armor!) or have a good build/equip and still challenge.

[thepenmonster.3621]

Why not ban mesmer portals while you're at it?

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious.

A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp.

• As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider
• You need the buff in order to open the chest
• The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area

This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones.If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious.

A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp.

• As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider
• You need the buff in order to open the chest
• The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area

This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones.If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest.

Would that not remove the use of Mesmer portals for many JPs, then? I know the Mesmers drop the portals, for some JPs, in Mount/Glider-enabled areas.

[kharmin.7683]

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious.

A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp.

• As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider
• You need the buff in order to open the chest
• The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area

This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones.If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest.

Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them.

[Dante.1763]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"BunjiKugashira.9754" said:I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious.

A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp.

• As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider
• You need the buff in order to open the chest
• The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area

This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones.If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest.

Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them.

Add to that anet even added an item that allows players to warp back to a previous area, allowing all classes to have a portal as required.

The OPS claim that "Well my mesmer portals are allowed by the game but mounts/gliders arent" is also a false claim. They are allowed, as they should be. The jumping puzzles that the OP is talking about for the most are also not the hardest ones that have achievements tied to them. There are far easier ones that allow mounts that have the same ap reward tied to them as those the OP thinks are exploits.

Leave JPS as they are, or remove all mount and glider zones, its that simple. It gives -everyone- an even playing field, and eliminates the requirement for a mesmer for those who struggle with jumping as well.

[Ledi.9742]

the no mount and no glide zones are already annoying and disruptive enough as they are.