You should not be able to drop out of your current ranking bracket no matter what

[Shiyo.3578]

What I mean is, if you're bronze/silver/gold/plat/legendary, you should absolutely not be able to drop out of that. If you earned legendary/plat/etc, you should always be legendary/plat/etc for that entire season.

Watching someone queue at legendary, win 2 games, then lose the 3rd and DROP OUT OF LEGENDARY and go back to Plat is completely discouraging for that player and disheartening to see.So basically, what the current system is saying is that if you go 2-1, you no longer deserve to be legendary? That's insane, tbh.I consistently see anyone who steams tank their rating anytime they play. The safest thing to do is simply NOT play the game at all - when your game discourages people to queue, you've messed up horribly.

Due to the above, the vast majority of people just get plat then SIT on the rating and only queue 1 game every 3 days to not decay. This creates very, very bad matchmaking as no one is playing except for people trying to get plat to show off their medal, so most plat games end up being all golds

Please look into your ranking system because the current way it's designed discourages people to play and makes participation rates lower due to the design.

LoL/DotA(I think for DOTA?) doesn't let you drop out of your bracket, why does GW2?

[Raknar.4735]

LoL does let you drop out of your bracket ¯\(ツ)/¯

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

I like this idea, mostly because people who make a certain rank will stay there, and that would be better for more accurate matchmaking.

However, that still doesn’t mean the matchmaker will not team you up against a legendary with a team full of golds. There’s also the issue of placements. People who get misplaced above their true level of skill will basically be stuck in that bracket, and that will cause all sorts of issues.

It’s a mixed bag, and really it’s a bandaid fix for a poor matchmaker that uses Glicko in a team based mode.

[Starbreaker.6507]

In the end, I think this is more a problem with low population than anything else.

I used to play HotS and the same thing happened/happens there - not enough population to support matchmaking and the top players (many of whom are ex-pro players) have a multitude of accounts and just sit on rank with each one because, just like here, it's really easy to get a new battlenet account set up and jump into the game.

Sadly, I think the ship already sailed on fixing this mode. The game is almost a decade old and hemorrhaging more players in this mode with each passing season.

[Exci.6724]

You're going with the assumption that getting to a certain bracket is always deserved. As someone who has calibrated way too high after my placement matches (+5 more lucky matches), I would disagree. Someone gets lucky with wins and ends up stuck in plat 1? Who would want that? I wouldn't want that because I'd be playing out of my league all season, and players who actually belong to p1 would have to carry me every game. No thanks. If you would recommend there is somehow the option for a player to not allow himself to drop down a bracket, remember there are plenty of people who wouldn't mind dragging their team down as long as they get to keep the bragging rights of plat badge (that noone else cares about). And if you argue that your change makes more sense for plat-> legendary, remember all the win-trading and dodging going on there.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Shiyo.3578 said:What I mean is, if you're bronze/silver/gold/plat/legendary, you should absolutely not be able to drop out of that. If you earned legendary/plat/etc, you should always be legendary/plat/etc for that entire season.

Watching someone queue at legendary, win 2 games, then lose the 3rd and DROP OUT OF LEGENDARY and go back to Plat is completely discouraging for that player and disheartening to see.So basically, what the current system is saying is that if you go 2-1, you no longer deserve to be legendary? That's insane, tbh.I consistently see anyone who steams tank their rating anytime they play. The safest thing to do is simply NOT play the game at all - when your game discourages people to queue, you've messed up horribly.

Due to the above, the vast majority of people just get plat then SIT on the rating and only queue 1 game every 3 days to not decay. This creates very, very bad matchmaking as no one is playing except for people trying to get plat to show off their medal, so most plat games end up being all golds

Please look into your ranking system because the current way it's designed discourages people to play and makes participation rates lower due to the design.

LoL/DotA(I think for DOTA?) doesn't let you drop out of your bracket, why does GW2?

Because thats a different game, with different philosophy, design and goals. All people do in LoL is compete for the higher ranks, so they designed a system that lets them have this fake sense of progress.

GW2 MMR works entirely differently, everyone starts in the middle, and deviate from there. Rating changes from matches are weighed, based on who you beat/lost to.Once you're on the top, you're mostly playing matches which have an average skill rating thats way below yours. Wins net less and less rating, losses penalise you more harshly. You aren't meant to climb, you're meant to find your rating and stay there. Getting stuck is fully intended, this is how this system is supposed to work.

Just simply implementing what you ask for would ruin matchmaking,ladder and pvp in general. I could wintrade to 1400/1500/1600/1700, then keep losing to whoever got me that high, boosting them to the next level. Then we swap, and we carry each other to legendary just by throwing matches - this is easy when playing during dead hours. Many players even without wintrade could hit lucky winstreaks that could land them 1-2 tiers higher than their actual skill, followed by insane loss streaks(after all they do not belong in high gold/plat), but their rating cannot correct back to where it should be, so they are stuck with a terrible winrate and endless frustration.

What you're asking for works in the context of MOBA-s, but GW2 has almost nothing in common with MOBA-s, adopting parts of their features would be like grafting orange branches on to a cactus; Success is higly unlikely. EIther adopt the whole system(and get ready for a lawsuit), or none of it.

[Tayga.3192]

Guild Wars 2 matchmaking is balanced around 50% winrate.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

[Avatar.3568]

No Nein niet

[Vancho.8750]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:What I mean is, if you're bronze/silver/gold/plat/legendary, you should absolutely not be able to drop out of that. If you earned legendary/plat/etc, you should always be legendary/plat/etc for that entire season.

Watching someone queue at legendary, win 2 games, then lose the 3rd and DROP OUT OF LEGENDARY and go back to Plat is completely discouraging for that player and disheartening to see.So basically, what the current system is saying is that if you go 2-1, you no longer deserve to be legendary? That's insane, tbh.I consistently see anyone who steams tank their rating anytime they play. The safest thing to do is simply NOT play the game at all - when your game discourages people to queue, you've messed up horribly.

Due to the above, the vast majority of people just get plat then SIT on the rating and only queue 1 game every 3 days to not decay. This creates very, very bad matchmaking as no one is playing except for people trying to get plat to show off their medal, so most plat games end up being all golds

Please look into your ranking system because the current way it's designed discourages people to play and makes participation rates lower due to the design.

LoL/DotA(I think for DOTA?) doesn't let you drop out of your bracket, why does GW2?

Because thats a different game, with different philosophy, design and goals. All people do in LoL is compete for the higher ranks, so they designed a system that lets them have this fake sense of progress.

GW2 MMR works entirely differently, everyone starts in the middle, and deviate from there. Rating changes from matches are weighed, based on who you beat/lost to.Once you're on the top, you're mostly playing matches which have an average skill rating thats way below yours. Wins net less and less rating, losses penalise you more harshly. You aren't meant to climb, you're meant to find your rating and stay there. Getting stuck is fully intended, this is how this system is supposed to work.

Just simply implementing what you ask for would ruin matchmaking,ladder and pvp in general. I could wintrade to 1400/1500/1600/1700, then keep losing to whoever got me that high, boosting them to the next level. Then we swap, and we carry each other to legendary just by throwing matches - this is easy when playing during dead hours. Many players even without wintrade could hit lucky winstreaks that could land them 1-2 tiers higher than their actual skill, followed by insane loss streaks(after all they do not belong in high gold/plat), but their rating cannot correct back to where it should be, so they are stuck with a terrible winrate and endless frustration.

What you're asking for works in the context of MOBA-s, but GW2 has almost nothing in common with MOBA-s, adopting parts of their features would be like grafting orange branches on to a cactus; Success is higly unlikely. EIther adopt the whole system(and get ready for a lawsuit), or none of it.You are right about that there should not be lock down on brackets, but he is also right that currently the game promotes not playing it. This causes also the imbalanced matchmaking, you get less people on your rating playing you basically play on the lower bracket. One team is lets say several platinum 1 people and several gold 3, while your team is mostly g2, so you are expected to win by being higher rating but your team is not really expected to win so you lose allot of points or you win but you get almost nothing and supposedly 1 player is responsible for 1/10 of the game (main difference here between GW 2 and MOBAs, you can soft carry in GW2 but not hard carry like in League or Dota) but it is punished way more for even playing. That is why there is allot of shenanigans going around higher rating cause you have to win them all.Wouldn't it be better if the rating gained/lost was progressively lower when reaching some rating thresholds instead the current win multiple games lose one and all the effort goes to waste cause the RNG of the matchmaker decided so.

[mrauls.6519]

I remember when it used to work that way.

NO

[mrauls.6519]

@"Tayga.3192" said:Guild Wars 2 matchmaking is balanced around 50% winrate.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

Yeah, my w/l definitely reflects that :)

[felix.2386]

it used to work that way and everybody was legendary including all noobs. just play enough games.

[De Bourgogne.9642]

Way to ruin match making even more lets go.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

The current match making only works in pvp that handles structured teams only, its laughable that it exists in a pvp mode that mostly consists of solo q as all it does is promote match manipulation and toxicity thru so many avenues. Most people are toxic to each other in pvp due to the fact a players teammates ultimately predict a players rating, arguably more then the player themselves. If a player was being rated on their own performance within the team would wintrading exist? Would players be toxic to a afk teammate or player that is obviously not trying to win or is of less skill if their performance wasn't effecting another's rating?If anet reworked matchmaking to mostly take individual players performance into account with regards to their rating more players would be motivated to play well but also toxicity would be greatly reduced.

[Tazer.2157]

@Shiyo.3578 said:What I mean is, if you're bronze/silver/gold/plat/legendary, you should absolutely not be able to drop out of that. If you earned legendary/plat/etc, you should always be legendary/plat/etc for that entire season.

Watching someone queue at legendary, win 2 games, then lose the 3rd and DROP OUT OF LEGENDARY and go back to Plat is completely discouraging for that player and disheartening to see.So basically, what the current system is saying is that if you go 2-1, you no longer deserve to be legendary? That's insane, tbh.I consistently see anyone who steams tank their rating anytime they play. The safest thing to do is simply NOT play the game at all - when your game discourages people to queue, you've messed up horribly.

Due to the above, the vast majority of people just get plat then SIT on the rating and only queue 1 game every 3 days to not decay. This creates very, very bad matchmaking as no one is playing except for people trying to get plat to show off their medal, so most plat games end up being all golds

Please look into your ranking system because the current way it's designed discourages people to play and makes participation rates lower due to the design.

LoL/DotA(I think for DOTA?) doesn't let you drop out of your bracket, why does GW2?

In Dota you lose MMR when you lose and it will keep dropping as you keep losing. It was worse earlier when MMR didn't reset every season.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

it would certainly cure win trading, alt abuse, off hours queueing, and all that other nonsense, cuz... ?

[Khalisto.5780]

Just make ranking/medal to show only when season end, so ppl will never be sure if they are ranked 1 or plat, that will keep them playing, or show ppl rating only to themselves, that will also keep them playing

[Dantheman.3589]

I’ve been thinking about something like this though I think it’s more comparable to league and MtG arena, not dota. It would probably work better than other suggestions of personal rating but main criticism is lack of population playing

[Dantheman.3589]

@Dantheman.3589 said:I’ve been thinking about something like this though I think it’s more comparable to league and MtG arena, not dota. It would probably work better than other suggestions of personal rating but main criticism is lack of population playing

Pmuch off my first comment- there could be some serious benefits to a league based system. Say in mtg arena where u climb from bronze and only challengers really get on the leaderboard there are some serious benefits- for me I’m experienced in climbing but was new to mtg at my local game shop, but when they heard I climbed to diamond in 2 weeks on f2p stuff they know “ this kids pgood” and around that level you can stream and get viewers. As things are there are lots of casual climbers who average high plat2 but because they solo on f2p they don’t get high demand titles. In a league only system ppl like this could climb from bronze to say diamond and could stream at that lvl, we know they aren’t gonna be rank 1 players but ppl might really wanna watch them and this could expand our streamers from only top 5 players to much more which could be options of viewer ship. Also a benefit in games like these is that you still get players in your league at all hours of day and not just 2 hour prime times, so again could improve viewship.Basically I’m not sure if it would work because low population is the cause of most complaints, but there’s a chance it could fix all our problems and improve population if it actually works.

[Shiyo.3578]

@"Tayga.3192" said:Guild Wars 2 matchmaking is balanced around 50% winrate.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

When I was nearing Plat2 it put me against the #1 on the leaderboard with another legendary duo he queued with. I was with all golds and lost 0-500. I lost 29 pointsNext match I win and gain 12 points.You think this made me want to keep playing? Nope, I stopped.

At 50% win rate, if I keep playing, I'll eventually drop down to gold. For most people, playing will make them drop down to gold. 50% win rate ensures nearly everyone is stuck in gold.That means the matchmaker does not function with the current ranking/division system.

[Majy.6792]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Tayga.3192" said:Guild Wars 2 matchmaking is balanced around 50% winrate.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

When I was nearing Plat2 it put me against the #1 on the leaderboard with another legendary duo he queued with. I was with all golds and lost 0-500. I lost 29 pointsNext match I win and gain 12 points.You think this made me want to keep playing? Nope, I stopped.

At 50% win rate, if I keep playing, I'll eventually drop down to gold. For most people, playing will make them drop down to gold. 50% win rate ensures nearly everyone is stuck in gold.That means the matchmaker does not function with the current ranking/division system.

At least you're plat 2. I literally can't climb into plat without beating multiple teams of top 20 duos, and often I get put with all golds against them. Around 1450 it starts matching you with and against top players regularly, but if you don't get a good streak of "with" then you wind up "against" and often against means you don't have any top players on your team, usually all golds, maybe someone in the 150-250 bracket.

[NotFound.7813]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:it would certainly cure win trading, alt abuse, off hours queueing, and all that other nonsense, cuz... ?

Playing with alts isnt a problem and u cant climb playing off hours now literally imposible

[Faux Play.6104]

@Shiyo.3578 said:What I mean is, if you're bronze/silver/gold/plat/legendary, you should absolutely not be able to drop out of that. If you earned legendary/plat/etc, you should always be legendary/plat/etc for that entire season.

Watching someone queue at legendary, win 2 games, then lose the 3rd and DROP OUT OF LEGENDARY and go back to Plat is completely discouraging for that player and disheartening to see.So basically, what the current system is saying is that if you go 2-1, you no longer deserve to be legendary? That's insane, tbh.I consistently see anyone who steams tank their rating anytime they play. The safest thing to do is simply NOT play the game at all - when your game discourages people to queue, you've messed up horribly.

Due to the above, the vast majority of people just get plat then SIT on the rating and only queue 1 game every 3 days to not decay. This creates very, very bad matchmaking as no one is playing except for people trying to get plat to show off their medal, so most plat games end up being all golds

Please look into your ranking system because the current way it's designed discourages people to play and makes participation rates lower due to the design.

LoL/DotA(I think for DOTA?) doesn't let you drop out of your bracket, why does GW2?

you 100% should be able to drop out of your division. What is related but needs to go are:

• Multiple accounts with different rating -- they should all share the same rating and use something like legitimate cell phone number to authenticate. Too easy to tank alts to boost or snipe others.
• Placement matches and high volatility for people that have established ratings from the last 2-3 seasons. Absolutely no value in this. Just drop everyone in a division to the bottom of it and put all the top 250 at the same rating to start the season.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Tayga.3192" said:Guild Wars 2 matchmaking is balanced around 50% winrate.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

When I was nearing Plat2 it put me against the #1 on the leaderboard with another legendary duo he queued with. I was with all golds and lost 0-500. I lost 29 pointsNext match I win and gain 12 points.You think this made me want to keep playing? Nope, I stopped.

At 50% win rate, if I keep playing, I'll eventually drop down to gold. For most people, playing will make them drop down to gold. 50% win rate ensures nearly everyone is stuck in gold.That means the matchmaker does not function with the current ranking/division system.

So you are saying that the system thinks you are gold level an tries to get you there. And thats wrong?

Also. Having the majority of the playerbase in gold (the middle) makes perfect sense.

[Shiyo.3578]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Tayga.3192" said:Guild Wars 2 matchmaking is balanced around 50% winrate.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

When I was nearing Plat2 it put me against the #1 on the leaderboard with another legendary duo he queued with. I was with all golds and lost 0-500. I lost 29 pointsNext match I win and gain 12 points.You think this made me want to keep playing? Nope, I stopped.

At 50% win rate, if I keep playing, I'll eventually drop down to gold. For most people, playing will make them drop down to gold. 50% win rate ensures nearly everyone is stuck in gold.That means the matchmaker does not function with the current ranking/division system.

So you are saying that the system thinks you are gold level an tries to get you there. And thats wrong?

Also. Having the majority of the playerbase in gold (the middle) makes perfect sense.

My win/losses;+16-25+16-23+13+12+11+12-29

50% win rate would mean I'd do nothing but tank my rating despite playing vs equally skilled(plat) players. It's an anomaly of game design.