Lootboxes court ruling in the Netherlands

[Vancho.8750]

Arenanet should try to cover their ass better with the BL keys and twist it like the BL statue is the real thing you buy at the end with some added bonuses in the box, by adding the special draw item in the shop in the same time it is released. So everything in the box can be acquired by direct purchase, and you are allowed to roll for something to be received for cheaper but most likely you will receive the desired item at certain amount of Keys bought, so the BL chest turns from a loot box to an item pack with certain outcome with random discount on the purchase.

[robertthebard.8150]

In EA's case, they really went nuts with it. What they'll probably do is ban all players from The Netherlands, because they likes their money. If they try to pursue it outside of their borders, it could be a really messy legal battle, that the Netherlands is likely to lose over jurisdiction, if none of their citizens can play any more, legally.

Here? I'm not sure I've ever purchased a key. I know I don't go out of my way to try to procure them, I get them in game, and I use them, other than that, they just build up in my bank. I'm not overly fussed about them, one way or the other. They're not intrusive, there's no popup saying "Buy keys to open me from the Market", unlike in swtor, for example, where when you're not subbed and drop Purple+ gear, and it says right on it that you have to either sub, or purchase an unlock to be able to use it. As far as what ANet can do about it, it's pretty simple, just do what they did with Belgium, and remove the items from their version of the store.

[Rukia.4802]

For the more lets say "dedicated" friends in this game I've seen waste a lot of money on BL chests , like recently the wings. If I didn't have much self control maybe I would be in the same spot. I am all for removing loot boxes, no reason that crap can't be straight purchasable on gem shop even as a higher than normal price as opposed to RNG who knows what price.

That said, GW2 walks a fine line because you can purchase them with ingame gold so I doubt anything would happen compared to big scumlord EA who have literally 0 care in the world for their player$. We even have literal ecto gambling, how would you regulate that since technically you can purchase gold with real money then gamble it? In the end its really the responsibility of the player and these should be looked at on a case by case basis, EA is the absolute worst and their system should be shut down for very obvious reasons.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Nothing in those BL chest have ever provided a competitive advantage, aka “pay to win”, over other players. And if EU wants to go crazy with blanket regulations then game companies will just region block certain sales and call it a day.I think ANet will think of something other than blocking a region with a greater population than the USA.

I would think again...

https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001978607

"FAQ: This Item is Not Available for Purchase in your RegionIn some regions, certain items may be disabled or unavailable to purchase by users. If this is the case, you may receive the following error when viewing some items in the Gem Store:

This item is not available for purchase in your region.

The most common reason you'll see this message is when an item cannot be sold due to local or regional laws. In most cases, these laws are targeted at items with random elements that can be purchased with real money.

Please note that some items are only offered at specific times during the year. For more information about how and when you can obtain any given item, please visit the official Guild Wars 2 wiki.

Current RestrictionsHere are the territories currently impacted by local or regional gaming laws:

Belgium"You realize that Belgium (pop. 11.5 million) isn't the same as the EU (pop. 448 million) right?

[Friday.7864]

They still have years of time before this becomes an EU wide issue and they won't move a finger until then.At that point they will have to change their business model and just throw everything in the gem store or make it available as drops.

[Tazer.2157]

Imagine the government telling adults on what they can and cannot spend their money on. I’d agree if this ruling was specifically for children( barely because parents exist for a reason) but this is ridiculous. I’m glad I don’t live in these countries.

[aspirine.6852]

@Etienne.3049 said:

@mercury ranique.2170 said:I've been reading the court ruling. The court is very clear that it is important that the content of the lootboxes have a value not only in the virtual economy but also on the real market. As this is not the case with GW2, I doubt this ruling change anything

At first glance the reasoning of the gambling authority (in 7.1) seems to be that coins, which the objects acquired from the lootbox can be traded for, can be sold for real money on third party sites even if that's against EA's rules, the court seems to accept this reasoning.

Given that GW2 gold can be sold on 3rd party sites for real money (which is similarly against the rules) and certain items can be sold on the trade post I don't see a lot of reasons for a judgement involving GW2 ending differently (unless this gets appealed resulting in a different conclusion), there's a few small differences but I doubt they'll lead to a different conclusion.Now whether GW2 is anywhere near he top of the list for enforcement is another question.

@"aspirine.6852" said:I'd rather see that my government doesnt meddle in my gaming affairs. I think they have some more serious issues right now instead of belittle people..

"Gambling affairs", not "gaming affairs".

As for the excuses Anet might use that some people are mentioning, good luck with that, but I'm not seeing those working.

You see it as gambling, I see it as gaming. Gambling is you win or you lose. With the chests you always gain something. :/ Either way I dont want them to meddle in neither of them. We have enough stupid rules in this country..

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:Um, you get a black lion statue and a seasonal item with each key you purchase as well as up to three random bonus items. As long as the entire content isn't rng these will not qualify as gambling technically.Depend on what the specific gambling legislation in your country is. In my country, technically it's already considered to be gambling (such a loophole was in the past tried by the RL casinos, so got "patched out" long ago). It's just none brought that to the courts attention yet.

@"BunjiKugashira.9754" said:Great, I'll open a casino and, since you get a guaranteed lollipop on each pull of the slot-machine, legally operate it as a candy shop! /s

I don't know in which countries this legal work-around works, but I'm rather certain the Netherlands isn't one of them.It doesn't work in practically any country which has any serious gambling laws. It's just, for some reason, many of those countries are treating games completely separately from both RL gambling and even from online gambling sites. In most cases it's not even about laws not catching up with the times and technology - it's about the courts not being aware of what is happening withing the games.

In short, in many countries (at least european ones), it should be already considered a gambling according to laws that are already in place, and the games get around it only by simple expediency of "flying under radar".

Notice, btw, that what happened in Belgium (and Netherlands) did not involve any changes in the laws. What has happened was the gambling commision confirming that the already existing laws should also apply to computer games.

@Tazer.2157 said:Imagine the government telling adults on what they can and cannot spend their money on.I don't need to imagine it. All the governments do that. There's a ton of things that can even land you in jail if you decide to spend money on them.Yes, in your country as well.

[Danikat.8537]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Nothing in those BL chest have ever provided a competitive advantage, aka “pay to win”, over other players. And if EU wants to go crazy with blanket regulations then game companies will just region block certain sales and call it a day.I think ANet will think of something other than blocking a region with a greater population than the USA.

I would think again...

https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001978607

"FAQ: This Item is Not Available for Purchase in your RegionIn some regions, certain items may be disabled or unavailable to purchase by users. If this is the case, you may receive the following error when viewing some items in the Gem Store:

This item is not available for purchase in your region.

The most common reason you'll see this message is when an item cannot be sold due to local or regional laws. In most cases, these laws are targeted at items with random elements that can be purchased with real money.

Please note that some items are only offered at specific times during the year. For more information about how and when you can obtain any given item, please visit the official Guild Wars 2 wiki.

Current RestrictionsHere are the territories currently impacted by local or regional gaming laws:

Belgium"

Anet can stop anyone buying any item in the gem store whenever they want, they don't even need a reason. But then they lose the profit from selling that thing to those people. That's why people are saying they're unlikely to simply block players from buying black lion keys if the entire EU classifies it as gambling - because that's a huge market for Anet (one of only two places in the world with dedicated servers) and therefore likely to be a massive loss of income. At that point it would make more sense for them to look at what they need to do to make black lion keys legal, rather than just banning them.

@Tazer.2157 said:Imagine the government telling adults on what they can and cannot spend their money on. I’d agree if this ruling was specifically for children( barely because parents exist for a reason) but this is ridiculous. I’m glad I don’t live in these countries.

Gambling is legal in both The Netherlands and Belgium, it's just regulated like it is in most countries. (Including the USA where I assume most people going on about restrictive governments live.) I've not looked into the details much but in both countries you need a licence and have to comply with certain conditions to prove the games are being run fairly and you're not scamming customers or laundering money, or letting children participate. So Anet could continue to sell black lion keys there, they just decided it was easier to stop players in Belgium from buying them than to comply with the law, and some of us are assuming they'll do the same in the Netherlands.

To some extent I understand that decision. I work with volunteer groups in the UK who often run games of chance as fundraisers. I tell them (on instruction from my boss) to make sure what they're doing is legally classified as a tombola or prize draw rather than a lottery because even though lotteries are legal it's much more complicated to run one legally (and you have to pay more tax) so it makes more sense to make a few changes to the game and avoid that.

But the fact that a company can't be bothered complying with the regulations on gambling and would rather not offer it at all doesn't mean there's a problem with the legislation.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Danikat.8537 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Nothing in those BL chest have ever provided a competitive advantage, aka “pay to win”, over other players. And if EU wants to go crazy with blanket regulations then game companies will just region block certain sales and call it a day.I think ANet will think of something other than blocking a region with a greater population than the USA.

I would think again...

https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001978607

"FAQ: This Item is Not Available for Purchase in your RegionIn some regions, certain items may be disabled or unavailable to purchase by users. If this is the case, you may receive the following error when viewing some items in the Gem Store:

This item is not available for purchase in your region.

The most common reason you'll see this message is when an item cannot be sold due to local or regional laws. In most cases, these laws are targeted at items with random elements that can be purchased with real money.

Please note that some items are only offered at specific times during the year. For more@"Tazer.2157" said:Imagine the government telling adults on what they can and cannot spend their money on. I’d agree if this ruling was specifically for children( barely because parents exist for a reason) but this is ridiculous. I’m glad I don’t live in these countries.

Gambling is legal in both The Netherlands and Belgium, it's just regulated like it is in most countries. (Including the USA where I assume most people going on about restrictive governments live.) I've not looked into the details much but in both countries you need a licence and have to comply with certain conditions to prove the games are being run fairly and you're not scamming customers or laundering money,

or letting children participate

. So Anet could continue to sell black lion keys there, they just decided it was easier to stop players in Belgium from buying them than to comply with the law, and some of us are assuming they'll do the same in the Netherlands.The Netherlands seem safe enough for ANet for the time being. The laws that a small number of games here fell afoul of are specifically for casino style gambling, i.e. games where you can "buy in" with real money, take part in games of chance and then "cash out" again, possibly making a profit. It has been ruled that games like that resemble online casinos enough to fall under the same legislation, which means a license is required and there will be oversight.

The Belgian rulings are far more severe

[Scavarius.6059]

@Zok.4956 said:You can buy Black-Lion boxes with GEMs that you can buy with real money.

wording like that is exactly why many cases just flop. you dont buy a chest with gems. you buy a key, and this is where you can use loopholes and backdoors.

[Nick Malone.5641]

The case against EA highlights the difference between EA and ANet.

The biggest thing that makes loot boxes gambling is the ability to "cash out", either directly or through a third party service. EA permits real money trade for its loot box content, if not actually encouraging it. This is what made them vulnerable to the courts. ANet, on the other hand, actively and aggressively fights third party RMT transactions for in game content.

While ANet may decide to take preemptive action to avoid legal trouble, they are in an excellent position to defend themselves from accusations of gambling. They can honestly say that BLCs are not intended to have any real money value, and ANet does everything legally within its power to prevent RMT for in game content. ANet really has nothing to fear from this court ruling. And besides, EA is appealing the case, so any action can be put on hold until the appeal is resolved.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

European Parliament commissioned an internal report regarding lootboxes and the impact on consumers.https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2020/652727/IPOL_STU(2020)652727_EN.pdf

The closing paragraph:

These measures are in many ways comparable to the existing practices tackling loot boxes that were identified in this study. Should these existing practices (which are mostly voluntary) be found insufficient to protect players from potentially harmful effects of loot boxes, they could be regulated at EU level in a similar manner.

For government reports, that's an incredibly weak recommendation and suggests that the EU isn't in any rush to tackle lootboxes.

---

For those who don't want to read the 40+ page report: yes, they cover all the things we have seen discussed in these threads: what constitutes gambling, definition of "loot box", distinctions between cosmetic & gameplay-affecting rewards, whether the source matters (in-game reward, in-game currency, real money, combination), can the items be sold or traded, and so on.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:For those who don't want to read the 40+ page report: yes, they cover all the things we have seen discussed in these threads: what constitutes gambling, definition of "loot box", distinctions between cosmetic & gameplay-affecting rewards, whether the source matters (in-game reward, in-game currency, real money, combination), can the items be sold or traded, and so on.Well even if the report said murder is illegal I'm pretty certain that EAs response would be "we dont agree that murder is illegal, we consider it a surprise change of life and we believe our players enjoy these changes".

[kharmin.7683]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

For government reports, that's an incredibly weak recommendation and suggests that the EU isn't in any rush to tackle lootboxes.Seems to me that governments would rather regulate gambling to get taxes from them rather than ban gambling. Maybe that's why it seems so weak?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Fuchslein.8639 said:But you can buy them with real money. What most people do while addicted to it(I'm not talking about people who just treat themselves and then can stop). And just for such people and 'uninformed' children, that's what it is for.

and how do children pay for them? Most children do not own credit or debit cards and there is no coin slot on the display.

Besides, if you go that strict, all the fairs and tombolas would have a massive problem unless you look at the money and the price of the prize. Those ticket sellers on fairs to win something 'special' sell cheap tickets for even cheaper rewards.

Black lion keys are pretty cheap.

And the stuff inside the boxes is pretty cheap too.

Now with EA some lootboxes contained incredibly expensive stuff, so they are indeed closer to a lottery than anet with their 'fair stuffed animal' kind of drops.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Danikat.8537" said:But the fact that a company can't be bothered complying with the regulations on gambling and would rather not offer it at all doesn't mean there's a problem with the legislation.It's not that they "can't be bothered". It's that they'd rather blacklist one relatively small country, than admit that they could change the system. It's better for them to pretend like it's an unreasonable decision of one country that makes them unable to do business there (and thus play the victim and use players to put pressure on govenrment) than admit that they were in the wrong. There's too much money involved in this, so they won't give up easily. Which is why the only chance of it ever getting better is a legal pressure. Nothing less is going to work.

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:And the stuff inside the boxes is pretty cheap too.Nobody is interested in the pretty cheap stuff. It's the stuff that isn't cheap that makes people buy and open those boxes.

[Fuchslein.8639]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Fuchslein.8639 said:But you can buy them with real money. What most people do while addicted to it(I'm not talking about people who just treat themselves and then can stop). And just for such people and 'uninformed' children, that's what it is for.

and how do children pay for them? Most children do not own credit or debit cards and there is no coin slot on the display.

Besides, if you go that strict, all the fairs and tombolas would have a massive problem unless you look at the money and the price of the prize. Those ticket sellers on fairs to win something 'special' sell cheap tickets for even cheaper rewards.

Black lion keys are pretty cheap.

And the stuff inside the boxes is pretty cheap too.

Now with EA some lootboxes contained incredibly expensive stuff, so they are indeed closer to a lottery than anet with their 'fair stuffed animal' kind of drops.

Do I really have to explain to you what stupid kids do to get what they want? ^^''And no, the contents in the boxes are not all 'cheap'. If you take some items you can buy for figurines, they are even extremely expensive.

I find it sus how people here defend the BLK as if something is being taken from them.It's not like Anet could sell the exclusive items just like the other Stuff. But I guess there are too many people here who are worried that Anet won't be able to hold on any longer or something?I don't know anybody who would choose gambling if they could just buy something. But some people here might see it differently ^^.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

For me, the real issue with loot boxes is that they have been the leaders in a change in the gaming industry that is not beneficial for gamers. I remember a time when companies produced games, sold them for what the market would bear, and depended on the quality of their product to produce the revenue necessary to fund the game and make a profit. Now, what we see all too often are companies that focus on producing a barely functional game that is miles short of being a good product, then heavily monetize it. The result is that players end up spending a lot more for a lot less.

Loot boxes are the poster child for this approach. Their only reason to exist is to get consumers to spend more on a desired item than they would spend if the item was sold at a set price. While some players like (or at least use) the consolation "prizes," the fact remains that no player is spending a lot of money on keys with the idea that they are going to get some boosters or other filler.

This means that loot boxes are by definition an exploitive practice. Many gamers support companies in their cash grabs by supporting the practice. So, supporters of the practice, you are enabling companies to exploit you and your fellow gamers. That means you are a part of the reason why we don't have as many really good games as we might otherwise. Companies only do what consumers allow them to do.

I would normally prefer that government keep its nose out of peoples' business. I would normally prefer that people take responsibility for their own choices. However, I do know that the psycho-physical mechanics involved in loot-boxes and those involved in, say, slot machines, are identical. This means that there is as much risk of unhealthy use of the loot box mechanic as there is of any practice currently classified as gambling. That said, the real reason why politicians might act is because they are not getting tax revenue from a practice that is in fact gambling, even if it doesn't meet current legal definitions.

I'd like to believe that if loot boxes do end up getting widely regulated, game companies might actually have to return to the practice of producing value for money. In reality, though, what's more likely is that the companies will find some other way to exploit gamers and continue producing barely adequate games. Color me cynical if you like, but that's what I'm thinking.

So, where do I see GW2 in all that? The BLC is certainly not as bad as some loot boxes. GW2 is, though, a mediocre product these days, with enough fundamental design issues that keep it from being a top game. Still, it would not be fair to say that the game's failings are mostly because it is designed as a barely-functional game designed solely to milk the player-base. Instead, I see ANet loot boxes as riding the coattails of the real offenders, with most of the game's issues being a result of poor choices made in fundamental design that are in all likelihood not the result of a desire to throw together a shoddy product to serve as vehicle for monetization.

[kharmin.7683]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:But the fact that a company can't be bothered complying with the regulations on gambling and would rather not offer it at all doesn't mean there's a problem with the legislation.It's not that they "can't be bothered". It's that they'd rather blacklist one relatively small country, than admit that they

could

change the system. It's better for them to pretend like it's an unreasonable decision of one country that makes them unable to do business there (and thus play the victim and use players to put pressure on govenrment) than admit that they

were

in the wrong. There's too much money involved in this, so they won't give up easily. Which is why the only chance of it ever getting better is a legal pressure. Nothing less is going to work.How is it that Anet is "in the wrong"?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

there are no 'desired items' for me in blc. I just enjoy opening them. If you buy keys because you want that special glider/chair/whatever, you are doing it wrong.

I long for the days when people were supposed to act responsible. These days it is all hand holding.

Besides, I thing it is disingenius to compare ANET's BLC to EA's greedy systems designed to rip you off hard. At least in ANET's case, as soon as you have bought the game, you don't have to spend and real money. Ever. Everything can be unlocked and earned in game. Some of us choose to support ANET with our hard earned money. And if after a long week dealing with very difficult people, I want to open 10 blc and then go on to kill someone in wvw to relax, I do not see any harm. But I get pretty angry if someone wants to take it away from me, because 'of the children'. 'Because the children' has corrupted a lot of the internet.

If you have children it is YOUR JOB to watch over their gaming and spending habits. Not some companies. And if you are making it easy for your children to spend a shitton of money on a game, you are doing it WRONG.

It is really that simple.

[Cyninja.2954]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:there are no 'desired items' for me in blc. I just enjoy opening them. If you buy keys because you want that special glider/chair/whatever, you are doing it wrong.

I long for the days when people were supposed to act responsible. These days it is all hand holding.

You mean the days where you were not already conditioned from an early age to develop gambling habbits? Or are you referring to the age of our parents and grandparents where many of them started smoking at ages 10 or earlier? (my father puffed on his first cigarette at age 7, and was a regular smoker at age 12. Life long addiction which eventually killed him)

There are reasons why certain addiction are being regulated by government IF the industries don't self govern. Trust me, the same arguments were made by smokers years ago:"Let me spend my money how I want. It's my health." etc etc etc

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:Besides, I thing it is disingenius to compare ANET's BLC to EA's greedy systems designed to rip you off hard. At least in ANET's case, as soon as you have bought the game, you don't have to spend and real money. Ever. Everything can be unlocked and earned in game. Some of us choose to support ANET with our hard earned money. And if after a long week dealing with very difficult people, I want to open 10 blc and then go on to kill someone in wvw to relax, I do not see any harm. But I get pretty angry if someone wants to take it away from me, because 'of the children'. 'Because the children' has corrupted a lot of the internet.

That is true, there are very huge differences in how predatory and manipulative lootboxes and micro-transactions are implemented. So yes, it could always be worse.

Have you heard of Genshin Impact? The game is basically designed form the ground up to exploit as many addictive tendencies as possible. They literally use behavioral psychology to manipulate and get players to spend money. The game is a huge success so guess what: there are more to follow. It's one of the first Asien developed games to breach this big into the western market. Over in Asia there are many more games like this.

I am all for minimal government. In this case though, it's not a fair fight. You are not up against common sense. You are up against an entire industry with research into behavioral science and manipulation which can shape and form behavior in ways you have no idea of and worst at ages you have no idea that you are being conditioned.

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:If you have children it is YOUR JOB to watch over their gaming and spending habits. Not some companies. And if you are making it easy for your children to spend a kitten of money on a game, you are doing it WRONG.

It is really that simple.

Nobody who has ever had, helped or in any healthy way interacted with children of friends would say such nonsense if they are aware how raising a child in today's world works. The typical non children single argument.

[Danikat.8537]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:there are no 'desired items' for me in blc. I just enjoy opening them. If you buy keys because you want that special glider/chair/whatever, you are doing it wrong.

Items which are only nice for players who don't care if they get them or not aren't good rewards.

Although I'd be curious to see if you really mean you don't care at all what comes out of it and would still open them if it went back to dropping random single-use tonics, boosters and items like the bank access express with none of the special or valuable items which are in there now. We don't know how many keys were sold back then of course, but considering the chests used to sell for about 30c on the TP it wouldn't surprise me to learn that a lot fewer people were buying keys, especially in large amounts, before they started adding account bound items players want to get and that the majority are buying them to try for those items.

I'm not saying it's a good idea to do that of course, because it isn't. Chances are you'll spend far more than you'd ever consider reasonable if it was a direct purchase and still come away with nothing. But I think it's at best a tiny minority of people who buy keys who do it for the sake of opening chests and would continue to do so if there was nothing they wanted and nothing they could sell for a lot of gold in the drop table.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Nothing in those BL chest have ever provided a competitive advantage, aka “pay to win”, over other players. And if EU wants to go crazy with blanket regulations then game companies will just region block certain sales and call it a day.I think ANet will think of something other than blocking a region with a greater population than the USA.

I would think again...

https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001978607

"FAQ: This Item is Not Available for Purchase in your RegionIn some regions, certain items may be disabled or unavailable to purchase by users. If this is the case, you may receive the following error when viewing some items in the Gem Store:

This item is not available for purchase in your region.

The most common reason you'll see this message is when an item cannot be sold due to local or regional laws. In most cases, these laws are targeted at items with random elements that can be purchased with real money.

Please note that some items are only offered at specific times during the year. For more information about how and when you can obtain any given item, please visit the official Guild Wars 2 wiki.

Current RestrictionsHere are the territories currently impacted by local or regional gaming laws:

Belgium"You realize that Belgium (pop. 11.5 million) isn't the same as the EU (pop. 448 million) right?

...and? If a region makes it illegal, they should stop selling to that region. If that region is really unhappy, and they actually have elections, they can vote those in power out, and petition the new government to "fix" it. The problem with wanting something declared illegal to deal with people like EA is that it affects the whole industry, even where the process isn't as "predatory". Note that I put predatory in quotes because I don't buy loot boxes. I don't even buy them when I pay a sub that pays a stipend of currency for the game's store, such as swtor. I had so many coins built up there that I bought an account unlock for a guild mate that wanted access to Section X, but couldn't buy it himself. So when I see people complaining about them on one hand, and then expecting game companies to change up their business model globally, to accommodate one region's access to an item/item pack that their government has, at their insistence, decided is illegal in that region, I have to wonder what the motivation was? They wanted the loot boxes removed, and they're removed, isn't that a win?

It's unfortunate for Belgium that they no longer have access to that item, but someone in Belgium decided that this needed to be a thing, and it is. It's not ANet's responsibility to make or change laws in a region, it's the responsibility of the people that chose who's governing them, and how much control those in charge have over their day to day lives. So when they get what they want, and in this case it was the removal of loot boxes, what grounds do they have to complain about the lack of availability?

[Astralporing.1957]

@robertthebard.8150 said:...and? If a region makes it illegal, they should stop selling to that region.

Like it has been said, it works for something like Belgium. It would no longer work as a solution if it was the whole EU. In this case, it would have been more economical to think of a different, less exploitative way of selling things.

If a shop does something one of the customers doesn't like, it's that customer's problem. If a shop does something a large part of its customers do not like, it's the shop's problem.