thief/rev officially the easiest class to play

[felix.2386]

even tho these two has always been forgiving for running high shutdown power builds.but i always thought they at least take some skill to get a hang of itbut now thief/rev has become the easiest noob friendly class as overall bruiser sustain has been shaved so hard that if you dont dodge properly u die very quickbut not with thief/rev they can still chain dodges and waste dodges and get away easy.

specially after the revival of P/D condi which should never exist in pvp ever and the CD increase on phase traversal that makes noobs automatically save energy for stunbreak without thought instead of properly manage energy.over spending energy in shiro has always been one of the highly punishable mistake for noob rev.

i mained rev for 1 year for it having higher skill ceiling and higher skill floor, but with the changes, skill ceiling is decreased so is skill floor, noob can play better and potential for skill play has been brought down. and so it becomes boring and noob friendly and stall.maybe i should start playing power mirage or something

[Downstate.4697]

Try playing with your feet if you want a higher skill ceiling

[felix.2386]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Try playing with your feet if you want a higher skill ceiling

that's not skill ceiling, that just highers skill floornice try tho

[Quadox.7834]

try power chrono, that has v high skillcap

[ArthurDent.9538]

Anet has been dumbing down their game for over a year, this is nothing exclusive to rev/thief; these were just classes that had much higher skill floors/caps and the gap has shrunk. Despite all the mediocre players applauding every nerf as people now needing skill instead of being carried by "broken mechanics" the game is way less skillful then it has ever been with a continuously shrinking gap between the effectiveness of the best players and the wholely unremarkable ones.

[felix.2386]

@"ArthurDent.9538" said:Anet has been dumbing down their game for over a year, this is nothing exclusive to rev/thief; these were just classes that had much higher skill floors/caps and the gap has shrunk. Despite all the mediocre players applauding every nerf as people now needing skill instead of being carried by "broken mechanics" the game is way less skillful then it has ever been with a continuously shrinking gap between the effectiveness of the best players and the wholely unremarkable ones.

tho heavy shaving on bruiser sustain lately has reversing effect on dumbing down, for example i can easily punish scourges who just waste aoe and dodges for nothing.which then made roamer's sustain in comparison way too noob friendly, as i tried to bait skills and dodges against thief/rev, but they can just get away with it.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@felix.2386 said:even tho these two has always been forgiving for running high shutdown power builds.but i always thought they at least take some skill to get a hang of itbut now thief/rev has become the easiest noob friendly class as overall bruiser sustain has been shaved so hard that if you dont dodge properly u die very quickbut not with thief/rev they can still chain dodges and waste dodges and get away easy.

specially after the revival of P/D condi which should never exist in pvp ever and the CD increase on phase traversal that makes noobs automatically save energy for stunbreak without thought instead of properly manage energy.over spending energy in shiro has always been one of the highly punishable mistake for noob rev.

i mained rev for 1 year for it having higher skill ceiling and higher skill floor, but with the changes, skill ceiling is decreased so is skill floor, noob can play better and potential for skill play has been brought down. and so it becomes boring and noob friendly and stall.maybe i should start playing power mirage or something

Hold up, how can you simultaneously claim that the PT nerf made noobs save energy for stunbreaking instead of properly managing energy but then say wasting energy in Shiro was one of the most punishable mistakes? Which is it? Are they noobs because they blow energy or because they don't? Are you upset that the nerf made it more difficult to be stupid with Shiro and now they're harder to pin down because they have more energy to break stuns?

I can't understand the complaint, it looks like you're upset about both things at once.

[Shao.7236]

Disagree with Revenant, may have the ability to use Riposting Shadows defensively, but also offensively given how Phase Traversal has higher cooldown. (It's not a bad nerf either, being able to move around so easily is OP, just like how Stability was very high and balanced now.)

However, it's very telegraphed among all the other skills and people have been exploiting that since the dawn of times, especially Warriors. It's the players fault for blowing their CD's all at once when a Revenant is playing defensively instead of trying to catch them in between.

Besides what about Warriors? They keep evading randomly as well with just as much endurance if not a little more compared Revenant and they do not have to invest their pool of energy into it which means less damage.

Agree with Thieves, they do have too much duration in terms of blinds, it's okay to have that many blinds for them given their flimsy defense but the fact most last more than 5 seconds does blow the usage out of proportion. If it was more like 3 seconds for Shadow Shot stuff of the likes, it'd be much more on it's toes, Acrobatics Vigor is quite a big problem too, 5 seconds for every evade? How about 5 seconds for an evade after a 5 seconds ICD so they don't end up with 30 seconds of Vigor for just about any pebbles they evade. This is all not counting how Daredevil adds the extra evade with Weakness and would encourage more engagement rather than camping decisions of the other players.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Shao.7236 said:Disagree with Revenant, may have the ability to use Riposting Shadows defensively, but also offensively given how Phase Traversal has higher cooldown. (It's not a bad nerf either, being able to move around so easily is OP, just like how Stability was very high and balanced now.)

However, it's very telegraphed among all the other skills and people have been exploiting that since the dawn of times, especially Warriors. It's the players fault for blowing their CD's all at once when a Revenant is playing defensively instead of trying to catch them in between.

Besides what about Warriors? They keep evading randomly as well with just as much endurance if not a little more compared Revenant and they do not have to invest their pool of energy into it which means less damage.

Agree with Thieves, they do have too much duration in terms of blinds, it's okay to have that many blinds for them given their flimsy defense but the fact most last more than 5 seconds does blow the usage out of proportion. If it was more like 3 seconds for Shadow Shot stuff of the likes, it'd be much more on it's toes, Acrobatics Vigor is quite a big problem too, 5 seconds for every evade? How about 5 seconds for an evade after a 5 seconds ICD so they don't end up with 30 seconds of Vigor for just about any pebbles they evade. This is all not counting how Daredevil adds the extra evade with Weakness and would encourage more engagement rather than camping decisions of the other players.

buff shiro, nerf tif

[Loboling.5293]

@felix.2386 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Try playing with your feet if you want a higher skill ceiling

that's not skill ceiling, that just highers skill floornice try tho

Not if you're doing an handstand.

[Abelisk.5148]

Thieves aren't easy to play unless they're running condi.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Sounds like a rage post, guessing a thief just wreck em few mins before op made this post lol.

[Kuma.1503]

If you want a high skill cap build now you could try Core Engi, Power Chrono, or any of the dagger weaver builds. Either that or try running a more aggressive set up on thief/rev.

Power Herald gets less forgiving if you swap out Resistance for Eagle rune, but you'll be relying more on your ability to kill the opponent quickly and less on popping on demand resistance to cover yourself.

Likewise with thief, maybe try playing less selfishly? You can survive almost anything if you play selfish, but (and I'm mostly repeating advice from better thieves than myself when I say this) good thieves know when to risk their own survivability to get a kill. I reckon the skill-cap for thief is knowing when to go for plays like this.

Idk tho, I never found thief all that easy to play, but maybe it's because it's a very different playstyle than engi/ele. I've got it into my head that I should be mashing my keys until they go off, rotating through attunments/kits, but on thief, if I try that I end up buffering my skills and they go off twice.

It's hard to train yourself not to button mash when your skill doesn't go off immediately.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

so are you trying to claim the lord of bad takes title or what

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Abelisk.5148 said:Thieves aren't easy to play unless they're running condi.

Which is why it's so funny Anet's been catering to condi thieves since balance rework.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

This sounds like a post made by someone who hasn't played every classes meta build. I main rev generally, but I always play the meta build for other classes enough to understand it.

The current most mechanically easy thing to play right now is scourge and condi core nec. This is pretty much indisputable among anyone who has a character for every class. Core nec you legit just spam a rotation to maximize LF gain, and scourge is practically the definition of "Stand on point, mindlessly buttonmash". After that, rune of the trapper builds ( Both DH and R varient ) are pretty forgiving . Rev, Guardian, Warrior, and Engie are all pretty even in difficulty department but it still depends on build. Scrapper for instance is extremely easy to play, but not necessarily considered "meta".

Thief depends on which build you are using. Thief has a lot of busted cheese mechanics that carry it, but actually doing damage with thief and winning with it is harder to do. Condi P/D is pretty braindead and can be played by anyone. D/P is cheesy but does require far better awareness, timing, and game knowledge to play right.

[felix.2386]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@felix.2386 said:even tho these two has always been forgiving for running high shutdown power builds.but i always thought they at least take some skill to get a hang of itbut now thief/rev has become the easiest noob friendly class as overall bruiser sustain has been shaved so hard that if you dont dodge properly u die very quickbut not with thief/rev they can still chain dodges and waste dodges and get away easy.

specially after the revival of P/D condi which should never exist in pvp ever and the CD increase on phase traversal that makes noobs automatically save energy for stunbreak without thought instead of properly manage energy.over spending energy in shiro has always been one of the highly punishable mistake for noob rev.

i mained rev for 1 year for it having higher skill ceiling and higher skill floor, but with the changes, skill ceiling is decreased so is skill floor, noob can play better and potential for skill play has been brought down. and so it becomes boring and noob friendly and stall.maybe i should start playing power mirage or something

Hold up, how can you simultaneously claim that the PT nerf made noobs save energy for stunbreaking instead of properly managing energy but then say wasting energy in Shiro was one of the most punishable mistakes? Which is it? Are they noobs because they blow energy or because they don't? Are you upset that the nerf made it more difficult to be stupid with Shiro and now they're harder to pin down because they have more energy to break stuns?

I can't understand the complaint, it looks like you're upset about both things at once.

what's so complicatedoverspending energy on shiro was the most punishable mistake, and the mistake is often caused by not properly managing skills with low CD.before noobs will spam energy skills because skills have low CD and wont have energy for stunbreak

[felix.2386]

@Shao.7236 said:Disagree with Revenant, may have the ability to use Riposting Shadows defensively, but also offensively given how Phase Traversal has higher cooldown. (It's not a bad nerf either, being able to move around so easily is OP, just like how Stability was very high and balanced now.)

However, it's very telegraphed among all the other skills and people have been exploiting that since the dawn of times, especially Warriors. It's the players fault for blowing their CD's all at once when a Revenant is playing defensively instead of trying to catch them in between.

Besides what about Warriors? They keep evading randomly as well with just as much endurance if not a little more compared Revenant and they do not have to invest their pool of energy into it which means less damage.

Agree with Thieves, they do have too much duration in terms of blinds, it's okay to have that many blinds for them given their flimsy defense but the fact most last more than 5 seconds does blow the usage out of proportion. If it was more like 3 seconds for Shadow Shot stuff of the likes, it'd be much more on it's toes, Acrobatics Vigor is quite a big problem too, 5 seconds for every evade? How about 5 seconds for an evade after a 5 seconds ICD so they don't end up with 30 seconds of Vigor for just about any pebbles they evade. This is all not counting how Daredevil adds the extra evade with Weakness and would encourage more engagement rather than camping decisions of the other players.

i know i'm all for phase travesal nerf as picking low target one after another 1200 away is way too op for it's cooldown combined with sword 5but like i said, this changes make lowers skill floor and enables noob plays.warrior does dodges alot but it's not an issue because warrior just isnt viable to play at all.but tbh instead of warrior's dodges, i dislike full counter more. which is basically extra dodges but better and i find the entire class is carried by full counter even after heavy nerf for healbreaker

and good that we agree with each other on thief.

@Quadox.7834 said:try power chrono, that has v high skillcap

just tried chrono, man thats fun, high quickness up time sure is fun, got me back to plat for playing too much berserker too

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Sounds like a rage post, guessing a thief just wreck em few mins before op made this post lol.

funny, why would i rage about my best class in terms of skill rating? all my highest ratings plat 2+ are obtained playing thief.i would only rage about imbalance as a multiclasserjust like how i raged about full counter is busted and will be nerfed when warrior is completely garbage, people just laughed and one month later came healbreaker, and full counter heavily shaved soon later. lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@felix.2386 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Disagree with Revenant, may have the ability to use Riposting Shadows defensively, but also offensively given how Phase Traversal has higher cooldown. (It's not a bad nerf either, being able to move around so easily is OP, just like how Stability was very high and balanced now.)

However, it's very telegraphed among all the other skills and people have been exploiting that since the dawn of times, especially Warriors. It's the players fault for blowing their CD's all at once when a Revenant is playing defensively instead of trying to catch them in between.

Besides what about Warriors? They keep evading randomly as well with just as much endurance if not a little more compared Revenant and they do not have to invest their pool of energy into it which means less damage.

Agree with Thieves, they do have too much duration in terms of blinds, it's okay to have that many blinds for them given their flimsy defense but the fact most last more than 5 seconds does blow the usage out of proportion. If it was more like 3 seconds for Shadow Shot stuff of the likes, it'd be much more on it's toes, Acrobatics Vigor is quite a big problem too, 5 seconds for every evade? How about 5 seconds for an evade after a 5 seconds ICD so they don't end up with 30 seconds of Vigor for just about any pebbles they evade. This is all not counting how Daredevil adds the extra evade with Weakness and would encourage more engagement rather than camping decisions of the other players.

i know i'm all for phase travesal nerf as picking low target one after another 1200 away is way too op for it's cooldown combined with sword 5but like i said, this changes make lowers skill floor and enables noob plays.warrior does dodges alot but it's not an issue because warrior just isnt viable to play at all.but tbh instead of warrior's dodges, i dislike full counter more. which is basically extra dodges but better and i find the entire class is carried by full counter even after heavy nerf for healbreaker

and good that we agree with each other on thief.

@Quadox.7834 said:try power chrono, that has v high skillcap

just tried chrono, man thats fun, high quickness up time sure is fun, got me back to plat for playing too much berserker too

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Sounds like a rage post, guessing a thief just wreck em few mins before op made this post lol.

funny, why would i rage about my best class in terms of skill rating? all my highest ratings plat 2+ are obtained playing thief.i would only rage about imbalance as a multiclasserjust like how i raged about full counter is busted and will be nerfed when warrior is completely garbage, people just laughed and one month later came healbreaker, and full counter heavily shaved soon later. lol

Go through the class sub forums, guaranteed ull find far more "im new to thief and need tips how to not get wrecked" threads than any other class. Thief has also been known as one of the harder classes to master and be effective with for the 7 yrs I've been around the game. Sry but ur pretty transparent, like most of the players who post in these forums.Lastly on the small chance ur being genuine than u should change the tittle of the thread to include 'for me" as maybe ur someone who's naturally good with rogue type playstyles.Ultimately by ur two easiest class choices, looks like u just dislike em and want em nerfed, God gw2 are special kind of players, can't blame gamers for not sticking around this game haha. To funny.I hope u realize ur class (warrior) is in a gbage spot because of this games pvp community doing the very sort of thing or things ur doing here in this thread. Enjoy warrior lol.The ridiculous cancel culture that's going on right now has nothing on gw2 jerf culture haha.Its cool for kids to watch and follow lil naz and watch stuff like wet a$$ p..ssy on the awards show(top the charts) but peppy lepew canceled for promoting rape lmao wtf.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Abelisk.5148 said:Thieves aren't easy to play unless they're running condi.

This is the right answer.

[saerni.2584]

Easy to play isn't an insult/bad thing though. Professions should generally be easy to play (and ironically thief arguably isn't easy to play in most contexts). Professions should also have a skill ceiling that is higher to promote skill based gameplay.

These are vague complaints that don't add up to anything. Easy to play? So what? Are you saying everything should be hard to play so newer players give up on certain professions entirely? Of course not. But that's the predictable result of the logical fallacy you're presenting here.

[Aeolus.3615]

Anything with mobility and condi burst is easier to play.... condi is easier to play overall some classes with be troublesome due their cleanses.

i do agree with this as well.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Abelisk.5148 said:Thieves aren't easy to play unless they're running condi.

This is the right answer.

[TheBigPlay.7504]

Thief has always had and will always have the highest skill floor. I disagree with everything this guy says.

[felix.2386]

@saerni.2584 said:Easy to play isn't an insult/bad thing though. Professions should generally be easy to play (and ironically thief arguably isn't easy to play in most contexts). Professions should also have a skill ceiling that is higher to promote skill based gameplay.

These are vague complaints that don't add up to anything. Easy to play? So what? Are you saying everything should be hard to play so newer players give up on certain professions entirely? Of course not. But that's the predictable result of the logical fallacy you're presenting here.

lol people need to accept the truth, warrior was my first class for the entirety of vanilla gw2 with thief being secondary, and i admit that core warrior was one of the easiest class to pick up and play which is why it also dominates in low tier and had a hard time to fit in to the meta as it is too predictable fighting good players and too simple with incredibly low play potential.and i hated how anet refuse to increase skill ceiling for core warrior for years.so is thief, thief core skill set isnt very demanding, thief shines in rotation and map/target awareness which is a shared skill set for all classes, just thief benefits more from it. which is why i straightly transitioned to rev after HoT instead of focusing on thief, but thief has always been my secondary no matter what class i main at that moment, for it demands less class skill but a shared skill which i always use so i can just pick up thief and do good.

anyway thats off topic.