I'm a pure elementalist and came back after 7 years only to see...

[Senjun.8149]

Obsidian flesh nerfed, mist form nerfed, my traits... nerfed I mean mist form I get, my traits I don't really get but I can deal.

 

But obsidian flesh... really? Nobody ever used it because of its insanely long cd, but now it's useless almost. Why in pvp... would I want to sit there and channel a 3 second invuln? It has it's niche uses but ultimately... it's kind of useless now. Being able to heal in it is what made it worth while. Can I get an explanation here?

[Jski.6180]

Core ele is comply dead. Over nerfed and out power creeped.

[Downstate.4697]

You missed the part where focus was meta. Pretty much prefered for weaver and tempest in pvp. As for the nerfs, it was anet short site decisions causing core ele to be the worst its ever been.  The nerfs to protection duration and the CD on utilities is because of support tempest. The changes to arcane is because of weaver. Fire and air have good changes. Water has questionable changes. Earth hasnt been touched. Weapons are overall worse. If you dont play an elite spec you are screwed because all balancing decisions are focused on them.

TL&dr

If you dont like tempest or weaver move on and pray the new elite spec is great.

[Jski.6180]

3 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

You missed the part where focus was meta. Pretty much prefered for weaver and tempest in pvp. As for the nerfs, it was anet short site decisions causing core ele to be the worst its ever been.  The nerfs to protection duration and the CD on utilities is because of support tempest. The changes to arcane is because of weaver. Fire and air have good changes. Water has questionable changes. Earth hasnt been touched. Weapons are overall worse. If you dont play an elite spec you are screwed because all balancing decisions are focused on them.

TL&dr

If you dont like tempest or weaver move on and pray the new elite spec is great.

It was only focus meta after nerfs to other weapons. As focus was in the game and the effect of OF was the same for years.

 

That is the story of ele something gets nerf ppl move to the next effect till that gets nerf. A kind of endless cyclical of nerfs for the ele class and just the ele class.

 

What happen to ele is the dev. working on ele seemed to quit or move to working on some other part of the game and now the dev that working on balancing dislikes the ele class so much they are willing to go out of there way to make realy bad nerfs and explane them in a torlly way. Anet knows what they are doing and they are destroy the ele class.

[Touchme.1097]

The balance of all professions hasn't been fulfilled yet, even after the latest modified balance patch, PvE has become a nightmare to play. The only reasonable way to bring real balance to the Elementalist, in my opinion, is by completely reworking this profession. I started a discussion about it with suggestions that would give core Elementalist the uniqueness of playing the most attunements.

Link here: Suggestion: Elementalist complete rework - Elementalist - Guild Wars 2 Forums

Edited May 14, 2021 by Touchme.1097

[Jski.6180]

Balanced has changed now as well seeing how anet has unsplit a lot of things and did not split most of the effects in this update. PvE has become the driving foces for balances and that balance is more off of what else you class can do then just dmg. So weaver ele even tempest all where THE dps classes but with not much else so even if it can do dmg its not doing any thing else becuse how anet balanced the class to be dps.

[periphery.5421]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:17 AM, Senjun.8149 said:

Obsidian flesh nerfed, mist form nerfed, my traits... nerfed I mean mist form I get, my traits I don't really get but I can deal.

 

But obsidian flesh... really? Nobody ever used it because of its insanely long cd, but now it's useless almost. Why in pvp... would I want to sit there and channel a 3 second invuln? It has it's niche uses but ultimately... it's kind of useless now. Being able to heal in it is what made it worth while. Can I get an explanation here?

This seems to happen in most MMOs in my experience, they nerf the "glass cannon" class because people whine about it. They do less and less damage, eventually becoming just a joke you can kill since the original design is destroyed.

 

Glass cannon should mean BIG damage. It doesn't. You die in 3 hits and you do barely any damage at all most of the time to anyone that knows what they're doing with their own profession.

[vilkanor.3072]

On 5/15/2021 at 11:22 AM, periphery.5421 said:

You die in 3 hits

3? that's bunker! 

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 5/15/2021 at 3:22 AM, periphery.5421 said:

This seems to happen in most MMOs in my experience, they nerf the "glass cannon" class because people whine about it. They do less and less damage, eventually becoming just a joke you can kill since the original design is destroyed.

 

Glass cannon should mean BIG damage. It doesn't. You die in 3 hits and you do barely any damage at all most of the time to anyone that knows what they're doing with their own profession.

 

The problem is too much of everything but damage.  Glass cannons can't be glass cannons in this game because they also have too much mobility, stealth, and other nonsense that makes them not really glassy at all.  Glass cannons should have to commit to combat and win by pressure.  They should not be able to effortlessly disengage whenever they please.  That's how you justify BIG damage.

[Loke.1429]

As an example: as a weaver my meteor CRITICALLY hit a guy in wvw for 2323 today, and I'm in full ascended infused berserker armor, all runes and sigils optimal for dps. Best food and oil. Elementalist is NOT in a good place. WvW is now a boon uptime, tank+condi+stealth fest. Why does the devs continue to nerf us elementalists and staff especially? Or just not change anything and buff so many others. That PVE balance tho, that perfect complex standstill rotation large target dps tho... I'm very disappointed. 
Any comments ? Do you have a class you recommend me to change to @Fire Attunement.9835?
You really broke the trade-off between difficulty and pay-off a long time ago. Now a difficult class is worse than the easy ones. Same or less dps (on standstill target only), less tanky, less mobility, no stealth, long cast time cc, ground targeted, with SLOW projectiles that you gotta be blind to avoid. How about I sidestep some of those fireballs? Oh, you wanted to teleport onto some steps? Sorry your summon is too slow and stupid to run after me or even hit me while I hit you? the sarcasm could continue for ages here but I doubt they listen so

Edited May 16, 2021 by Loke.1429

[Jski.6180]

18 minutes ago, Loke.1429 said:

As an example: as a weaver my meteor crit a guy in wvw for 2323 today, and I'm in full berserker armor, all runes and sigils optimal for dps. Elementalist is NOT in a good place. WvW is now a boon uptime, tank+condi+stealth fest. Why does the devs continue to nerf us elementalists and staff especially? Or just not change anything and buff so many others. That PVE balance tho, that perfect complex standstill rotation large target dps tho... I'm very disappointed. 
Any comments ? Do you have a class you recommend me to change to @Fire Attunement.9835?
You really broke the trade-off between difficulty and pay-off a long time ago. Now a difficult class is worse than the easy ones. Same or less dps (on standstill target only), less tanky, less mobility, no stealth, long cast time cc, ground targeted, with SLOW projectiles that you gotta be blind to avoid. How about I sidestep some of those fireballs? Oh, you wanted to teleport onto some steps? Sorry your summon is too slow and stupid to run after me or even hit me while I hit you? the sarcasm could continue for ages here but I doubt they listen so

I know that feeling hitting for less then 3k on meteor even when going all in on dmg is the worst thing. There a lot of def skill that they added to the game with out thinking about old classes rolls.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

9 hours ago, Loke.1429 said:

As an example: as a weaver my meteor CRITICALLY hit a guy in wvw for 2323 today, and I'm in full ascended infused berserker armor, all runes and sigils optimal for dps. Best food and oil. Elementalist is NOT in a good place. WvW is now a boon uptime, tank+condi+stealth fest. Why does the devs continue to nerf us elementalists and staff especially? Or just not change anything and buff so many others. That PVE balance tho, that perfect complex standstill rotation large target dps tho... I'm very disappointed. 
Any comments ? Do you have a class you recommend me to change to @Fire Attunement.9835?
You really broke the trade-off between difficulty and pay-off a long time ago. Now a difficult class is worse than the easy ones. Same or less dps (on standstill target only), less tanky, less mobility, no stealth, long cast time cc, ground targeted, with SLOW projectiles that you gotta be blind to avoid. How about I sidestep some of those fireballs? Oh, you wanted to teleport onto some steps? Sorry your summon is too slow and stupid to run after me or even hit me while I hit you? the sarcasm could continue for ages here but I doubt they listen so

Honestly speaking something is really off with the damage, like you hit for 2~6k on targets from Meteor Shower, if you're lucky that is, since most of the time you see "Blocked", because haha aegis goes brrrrr and other questionable things.
Then you see how enemy hits you for like(gonna find screens and just write the numbers):

Things with (!) means hits were received on char with 2.4~2.6k armor
- Spinal Shivers - 8917
- Phase Smash - 10305, 10106

- CoR - 8509, 13556

- Test of Faith - 10041, 10805, 9016, 7831(!), 7334(!)

- Vault - 14501, 16757, 9495(!)

- Arcing Slice - 8710(!), 8776(!)

- Fierce Blow - 10109(!), 8582(!), 10109(!)

- Arc Divider - 5073(!), 5408(!), 5518(!)

- Death's Judgement - 14119(!)

- Burning - 5700/tick, 11827/tick(Rev copied condies lol...)

- Rush - 7900(!)

- Deathstrike - 574, 11514(second strike)

- Rocket - 9418

- Putrid Mark - 4993

- Feigned Surge - 10351(!), 8861(!)

All of these are post FEB2020.
Just to be clear though, I wasn't doing screens everytime I saw some bs number be it either condi or power, since I would fill that screen folder within a month.

 

[vilkanor.3072]

11 hours ago, Loke.1429 said:

As an example: as a weaver my meteor CRITICALLY hit a guy in wvw for 2323 today, and I'm in full ascended infused berserker armor, all runes and sigils optimal for dps. Best food and oil. Elementalist is NOT in a good place. WvW is now a boon uptime, tank+condi+stealth fest. Why does the devs continue to nerf us elementalists and staff especially? Or just not change anything and buff so many others. That PVE balance tho, that perfect complex standstill rotation large target dps tho... I'm very disappointed. 
Any comments ? Do you have a class you recommend me to change to @Fire Attunement.9835?
You really broke the trade-off between difficulty and pay-off a long time ago. Now a difficult class is worse than the easy ones. Same or less dps (on standstill target only), less tanky, less mobility, no stealth, long cast time cc, ground targeted, with SLOW projectiles that you gotta be blind to avoid. How about I sidestep some of those fireballs? Oh, you wanted to teleport onto some steps? Sorry your summon is too slow and stupid to run after me or even hit me while I hit you? the sarcasm could continue for ages here but I doubt they listen so

a long time ago, a competent Elementalist was a serious threat for even a mid size squad (no hitbox cap, infinite might stack, no damage cap, etc) yet the memes about thieves pressing "2" to kill were raging strong. Now, if Elementalist at its peak was meme material for thieves, the current ele is just a wasted slot.

Granted, I still have my share of fun playing it, but it's only due to nostalgia rather than actual effectiveness, all other professions can perform vastly better in each role.

[Senjun.8149]

it also looks like my signet of fire was nerfed, or perhaps the traits that extend duration...

 

It use to actually last about 20 seconds and do alot more damage... noticing it barely lasts now. I had almost 100% uptime in the past on signet of fire, no longer a thing. My condition build has been nerfed into the ground.... Meanwhile so was my survivability and thats not condi build specific thats for all builds.... I can tell you 7 years ago we use to dominate, and not in an OP kind of way against equally geared opponents, we simply contended with them.. Now... I dont know where we are. Sure we were extremely hard to kill in competent hands but now we kind of just melt. Our extra power was to make up for having to deal with 4 different elements and utilize 20+ abilities to be just as effective or slightly more than someone with 10. Why put in the extra effort to play a more difficult profession with no benefits?

Edited May 18, 2021 by Senjun.8149

[Junkpile.7439]

Staff weaver can always play that one hit build. Core can't play anything.

[Firebeard.1746]

On 5/16/2021 at 3:24 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

The problem is too much of everything but damage.  Glass cannons can't be glass cannons in this game because they also have too much mobility, stealth, and other nonsense that makes them not really glassy at all.  Glass cannons should have to commit to combat and win by pressure.  They should not be able to effortlessly disengage whenever they please.  That's how you justify BIG damage.

My experience in pvp is ele has everything but enough of everything else but damage. And given the healing nerfs they keep adding, they need to up the health pool. Heck they should do it for pve too because ele is more fragile than everyone else and does the same amount of damage. I only play the class because i enjoy it, but i feel outside support healing, the class needs some massive reworks. Whenever i dps i go down taking the same amount of damage as everyone else. 

 

I agree with your sentiment as it relates to deadeye and thief. It's allowed to do massive damage and immediately vanish indefinitely. 

[Jski.6180]

3 hours ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Staff weaver can always play that one hit build. Core can't play anything.

I miss core game play but that field support game play we use to have 7 years ago is gone. Staff core ele was an oddly support enabler not a full on support class when there was no true support class.

That the biggest thing added in that 7 years a 3 class system something gw2 was for sure not made for.

[vilkanor.3072]

9 hours ago, Senjun.8149 said:

I dont know where we are. 

in the garbage bin

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 5/17/2021 at 4:35 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Honestly speaking something is really off with the damage, like you hit for 2~6k on targets from Meteor Shower, if you're lucky that is, since most of the time you see "Blocked", because haha aegis goes brrrrr and other questionable things.
Then you see how enemy hits you for like(gonna find screens and just write the numbers):

Things with (!) means hits were received on char with 2.4~2.6k armor
- Spinal Shivers - 8917
- Phase Smash - 10305, 10106

- CoR - 8509, 13556

- Test of Faith - 10041, 10805, 9016, 7831(!), 7334(!)

- Vault - 14501, 16757, 9495(!)

- Arcing Slice - 8710(!), 8776(!)

- Fierce Blow - 10109(!), 8582(!), 10109(!)

- Arc Divider - 5073(!), 5408(!), 5518(!)

- Death's Judgement - 14119(!)

- Burning - 5700/tick, 11827/tick(Rev copied condies lol...)

- Rush - 7900(!)

- Deathstrike - 574, 11514(second strike)

- Rocket - 9418

- Putrid Mark - 4993

- Feigned Surge - 10351(!), 8861(!)

All of these are post FEB2020.
Just to be clear though, I wasn't doing screens everytime I saw some bs number be it either condi or power, since I would fill that screen folder within a month.

 

I will point out that these numbers just show the folly of Feb2020's patch. I posted around that time that the better thing to do was to put a cap and the amount of added damage you can get from traits, runes, sigils, special skill effects, and critical damage. Because that kind of change would at least been global in nature and you wouldn't have these situations where certain skills, and even certain classes, ended up with damage options that got 'missed' by the balance team.

[Obtena.7952]

19 hours ago, Senjun.8149 said:

Why put in the extra effort to play a more difficult profession with no benefits?

There are some people that simply choose to play difficult professions because easy ones are boring to them, regardless of how beneficial they think it is or not. 

[Downstate.4697]

25 might is better than full zerk. If you could build a weaver with 100% might uptime you would be good. Maybe put them with some hammer revs. Staff dps would be solid pick if pirate ship was good, but superspeed go brrrrr.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Core ele has been killed off by Tempest and Weaver. And it requires some tailoring to boost core ele without boosting Tempest and Weaver at the same time.

 

For now, if you like core, try tempest and enjoy the powerful overload skills. But you will lose one of your specializations as it will require you to ditch one for tempest.

[Puck.3697]

On 5/18/2021 at 2:19 AM, Senjun.8149 said:

Our extra power was to make up for having to deal with 4 different elements and utilize 20+ abilities to be just as effective or slightly more than someone with 10. Why put in the extra effort to play a more difficult profession with no benefits?

 

 

The biggest argument against this is Easy.

 

This is a MMORPG. you cant intentionally make 1 class Stronger then others Based on Class difficulty, as MMORPGS simply arent built on that logic im afraid. all classes have to be balanced against one another.

 

your mindset isnt what ur susposed to walk into a class with, its about enjoyment and Engagement with the proffession, not how difficult that class is. Difficulty is irrelevant. its a MMORPG, its there for you to choose a favorite class and enjoy yourself, all proffessions are balanced based on Role. not "effort".

 

if you work a MMORPG u completely Alienate your game to people with possible physical/mental Disabilities, Older generations who no longer have the reaction pace of younger players and Less skilled / More Casual players, you will murder your own game delievering on this. Weaver.. was atleast prior this weird patch the Meta in Fractal DPS and Was among best DPS in the game realistically..

 

 

[TheDarkness.6947]

4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

 

The biggest argument against this is Easy.

 

This is a MMORPG. you cant intentionally make 1 class Stronger then others Based on Class difficulty, as MMORPGS simply arent built on that logic im afraid. all classes have to be balanced against one another.

 

 

 

I agree, complexity of play (clicks per minute or what have you)  shouldn’t be rewarded from a class balance perspective. 

 

However professions have to be compensated for having lower base defense, lower base health, or both than other professions.  Ele has the lowest of both of those.  It’s not like it starts with higher power, precision, ferocity, etc than other professions. So the compensation needs to be in the traits and skills. 

 

So what really needs to be compensated is that there’s less margin for error than a profession with naturally higher health and defense.  In my time playing ele recently, I didn’t sense that particular balance was quite right at this point.  Or at least not enough to make me want to continue playing it right now.

[Bast.7253]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:26 PM, Loke.1429 said:

As an example: as a weaver my meteor CRITICALLY hit a guy in wvw for 2323 today, and I'm in full ascended infused berserker armor, all runes and sigils optimal for dps. Best food and oil. Elementalist is NOT in a good place. WvW is now a boon uptime, tank+condi+stealth fest. Why does the devs continue to nerf us elementalists and staff especially? Or just not change anything and buff so many others. That PVE balance tho, that perfect complex standstill rotation large target dps tho... I'm very disappointed. 
Any comments ? Do you have a class you recommend me to change to @Fire Attunement.9835?
You really broke the trade-off between difficulty and pay-off a long time ago. Now a difficult class is worse than the easy ones. Same or less dps (on standstill target only), less tanky, less mobility, no stealth, long cast time cc, ground targeted, with SLOW projectiles that you gotta be blind to avoid. How about I sidestep some of those fireballs? Oh, you wanted to teleport onto some steps? Sorry your summon is too slow and stupid to run after me or even hit me while I hit you? the sarcasm could continue for ages here but I doubt they listen so

You mean you don't like having to play the piano and stack multiple ground targeted stagnant pools of damage AND channel a mediocre easily telegraphed aoe to land the same amount of damage that a rev can do with a few slaps of a hammer or a necro can throw down with a well?

Well, I don't know why. It's so rewarding when you land it on those 2 people of the 40 in the zerg and manage to down someone. I mean, they get right back up of course and you're out of cooldowns to pressure them with while they res, but you did your best.

On a serious note, I'm just glad that I don't have to worry about retal doing more damage to me for trying (in between dodging gravity and physics defying mesmer focus pulls and necro mark spam).