thief is literally the most broken BS class in the game in conquest

[Tinkerer.2167]

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It really is just Smoke Screen.

 

The duration at 7s is too long and the radius is too big. Thieves used to have a moment of vulnerability when they'd bottom out init, but with Smoke Screen it creates a very long reset point that during that reset, the Thief is nigh invulnerable and you can't stop it from happening.

 

According to historical Thief balance in GW2, the Thief's reset should be being forced to disengage, not to be able to stand in someone's face while spamming blinds and taking a node while resetting.

 

True, smoke screen should be dropped down to 4-5secs or add an icd of like 1-2secs per blind attachment from it which would go in line with the 1sec blind from it... This way they can still use it as a finisher with Bound (usually you drop Dash for this) and they can still get some leech procs from Cloaked In Shadow in SA

 

 

[Tinkerer.2167]

2 hours ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

From my exp on ranked, I don't see that much D/P thief with smoke screen. Furthermore, good thief I see never use it but i'm at Gold3/Plat1 not Plat3/Legend

Right, because no thief in their right mind would play d/p with smoke screen... They play pistol/dagger to get the procs from cloaked in shadow and bound to get more invis from smoke screen, the build is literally centered around this busted utility.

 

If you're running d/p you'll just go the meta thief build.

 

It's ironic because they adjusted Dagger Storm because it was too much of a get out of jail free card with one click, but 7secs of a get out of jail free card that allows pressure on top of it on less of a cooldown in a utility, NOPE completely fine ! 😄

Edited June 5, 2021 by Tinkerer.2167

[Shagie.7612]

I dunno about the most broken or whatever but I definitely think teef's their hardest class in the game to balance in SPvP and it's in large part because of a combination of their mobility, stealth, and the speed at which you can neutralize a point.

 

Throw in that it's really hard to truly punish a thief and it's a difficult class to work with. You start giving it strengths and that mobility becomes a huge force multiplier.

 

Rev's similar to a certain degree when it comes to +1ing fights.

 

I'm not really sure how you keep what people like about thief and a lot of its archetypal flavor while also addressing those design concerns.

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Shagie.7612

[Bazsi.2734]

There is a really easy fix to this. Delete all damage, lifesteal , posions and whatnot from shadow arts. Leave only the stealth enchancing stuff, and maybe the damage reduction while revealed. So that SA thief is good at one thing, that being not dying.

Then nerf thief damage and put nice damage modifiers/unblockables/whatevers into some other traitlines, roughly so that they cancel each other out. There you go, SA thief can no longer kill stuff in this bunker-adjacent meta, but Deadly Arts or CS builds can. Those builds however need to be played well, since you do not have the abundance of stealth.

This way thief could keep its mobility and be forced into picking offensive traitlines. Or if sensible things are out of the question, just remove some more amulets and nerf burnguard again.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Bazsi.2734

[Crab Fear.1624]

10 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Well primarily it's Smoke Screen, due to what I already explained here:

 

 

But then upon this, adding bleed damage to Short Bow #1 is turning out to be a bad idea. Lately good thieves, I'm talking the best thieves,  spam Short Bow 1 which is actually dealing meaningful damage now, and they get to stay at range where they are safe as well, while they maintain/refresh all init in the process. <- These methods to keep on pressure while freely rebuilding init seems to be the source of why they are so strong right now. This new pressure added to SB#1 spam from bleeds is a bit too much ability to maintain DPS pressure while refreshing init completely, especially in conjunction with how Smoke Screen is also providing this safe method to refresh init without needing to disengage.

 

The problem is that due to these 2 new aspects within Thief builds, thieves don't actually need to dart in and out like a fly anymore to avoid vulnerable moments. Now they can just pressure into combats with staying presence like a Guard or something, and that's pushing the parameters of what Thieves are able to do, a bit over the top.

 

Well, rangers are far too mobile, and the block skill is far too short of cooldown.

 

Pinning one down when they mess up? GOOD LUCK

[anjo.6143]

For that kind of post you see the level on pvp players in this game, this is just sad.

If u cant 1x1 a thief, unless u r a mes, u are really, really, i mean really bad, and u should read pvp material, watch pvp content, practice A LOT on unranked, then u can TRY ranked.

Edited June 6, 2021 by anjo.6143

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 6/5/2021 at 2:22 PM, Khalisto.5780 said:

Unfun to play against 10/10 most of it due to stealth and blindness spam

 

I dont lile the way balance goes but i think +1 iniciative cost for heartseeker would do it and +10 secs smoke screen cd

+ ini cost to heartseeker, but if it hits a target, 1 initiative is refunded. This way the core d2 mechanic isn't hindered (that is: as soon as you drop below 50%, you die) but the defensive value of spamming stealth for days is reduced

[felix.2386]

11 hours ago, anjo.6143 said:

For that kind of post you see the level on pvp players in this game, this is just sad.

If u cant 1x1 a thief, unless u r a mes, u are really, really, i mean really bad, and u should read pvp material, watch pvp content, practice A LOT on unranked, then u can TRY ranked.

yes, because 90%+ of the EU mAT winners think that thief is busted and they are all bad and you are god.

 

what a typical gold thief, even if you hit plat 2 atleast once on thief and is not one trick only, you would think otherwise.

Edited June 6, 2021 by felix.2386

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

2 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

yes, because 90%+ of the EU mAT winners think that thief is busted and they are all bad and you are god.

 

what a typical gold thief, even if you hit plat 2 atleast once on thief and is not one trick only, you would think otherwise.

Are you an active mAT participant?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Go for it. 

 

Nerf smoke screen to 5 seconds, or reduce the blind application it puts out. Hell, or both. You gonna reduce the CD too? 

 

 

16 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

Well, rangers are far too mobile, and the block skill is far too short of cooldown.

 

Pinning one down when they mess up? GOOD LUCK

 

This is also true. Lightning Reflexes is 10 seconds too quick cooldown wise. Everyone else is in the 40-60 range with special exceptions to a couple classes.  

Edited June 6, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Just now, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Are you an active mAT participant?

I dont think they even watch mat. For the last while rev has been picked over thief on a lot of the top teams.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Nvm

Edited June 6, 2021 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Math.5123]

11 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

I dont think they even watch mat. For the last while rev has been picked over thief on a lot of the top teams.

Correct me if I'm wrong, at least on EU. The top 4 teams all had thieves. Drazeh, pain, sind and whichever the fourth team were. 

[Sereath.1428]

52 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, at least on EU. The top 4 teams all had thieves. Drazeh, pain, sind and whichever the fourth team were. 

Yeah all of them had thieves. The class is just way too valuable for a team.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

4 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, at least on EU. The top 4 teams all had thieves. Drazeh, pain, sind and whichever the fourth team were. 

Recently thief is becoming more popular again but over the last year or so rev has had a much greater presence in ATs.

[Math.5123]

2 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Recently thief is becoming more popular again but over the last year or so rev has had a much greater presence in ATs.

The only meta where thief haven't been on top was the triple kalla rev meta. More or less anyway, might forget a meta or two. 

But no class is as meta defining as thief is. 

[Teratus.2859]

On 6/5/2021 at 10:26 AM, Axl.8924 said:

Here we go again cries for thief nerf with vagueness.

 

You cannot delete smoke screen or all stealth without giving lots of heavy armor to a thief.

 

It also defeats the purpose of playing  a thief.

 

 

Evades and Vigor would be my trade off, as well as a damage increase.

But Thief will never get the damage buffs that thief players keep asking for so long as it has so much access to a highly abusable stealth mechanic.

Personally i'd rather have scrapper thieves that reward skillful play but that's just me, most thief players would rather abuse stealth and blinks to play dirty and annoy people.. because it's easy and effective.

[Jumpel.3972]

3 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

The only meta where thief haven't been on top was the triple kalla rev meta. More or less anyway, might forget a meta or two. 

Just after HoT too until they buff autos damage and nerf Rev.

 

Thief have a really specific role since a long time. Because of that, they are most of the time in the meta but it doesn't mean Thief is OP

Edited June 7, 2021 by Jumpel.3972

[Math.5123]

3 hours ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

Just after HoT too until they buff autos damage and nerf Rev.

 

Thief have a really specific role since a long time. Because of that, they are most of the time in the meta but it doesn't mean Thief is OP

I'm not counting metas that were 6 six years. And the fact that you feel like that's worth bringing up kinda tells you how dominant the class has been throughout the years. 

[Touchme.1097]

I don't see why thief shouldn't be meta in sPvP or any other game modes. It's certainly not Meta in a WvW zerg as thieves get insta kicked from zergs because that's the most meta dependant mode in the game and thieves are not welcome there.

[Jumpel.3972]

2 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

I'm not counting metas that were 6 six years. And the fact that you feel like that's worth bringing up kinda tells you how dominant the class has been throughout the years. 

 

Lol it was just to complet what you say.

 

Plus it's like say Necro has always been meta and then state that before PoF doesn't count 😅

 

[Math.5123]

1 hour ago, Touchme.1097 said:

I don't see why thief shouldn't be meta in sPvP or any other game modes. It's certainly not Meta in a WvW zerg as thieves get insta kicked from zergs because that's the most meta dependant mode in the game and thieves are not welcome there.

There is a big difference between being meta, and meta defining. Thief is the class that dictates what everyone else runs. Sidenoders needs enough sustain to live through a thief plus, roamers needs enough mobilty in their build to not get completely outroamed by the thief. 

[Crab Fear.1624]

4 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

I'm not counting metas that were 6 six years. And the fact that you feel like that's worth bringing up kinda tells you how dominant the class has been throughout the years. 

AT metas versus ranked conquest metas are not exactly the same. The 1-2 only of ranked changes everything versus tournies.

 

I think when people rush to the forums or reddit, it is not after a MAT loss.

 

It comes from game after game of kitten specs getting away with the same old kitten over and over, and being skipped over.

 

Saying thief is meta, or is always meta is not proof for or against the statement that it is OP.

 

If we looked at ranked conquest, guardian has too, always been in the meta.

 

Oh,  and conquest is super outdated.

[anjo.6143]

On 6/6/2021 at 11:52 AM, felix.2386 said:

yes, because 90%+ of the EU mAT winners think that thief is busted and they are all bad and you are god.

 

what a typical gold thief, even if you hit plat 2 atleast once on thief and is not one trick only, you would think otherwise.

Can you link ONE SINGLE EU mAT winner that doesnt win a 1x1 against thief ? That I will wait until I die, I will remember you weekly.

[Zenyus.2569]

ya bois funny