ANet Please! How Others See GW2 PvP!

[Luclinraider.2317]

Our Theme Song

 

I've been trying to get some friends on WoW Arena to come play GW2 with me and they always say "If it didn't have downed state".

 

Then they usually quote this as GW2 theme song.

 

Please remove downed state from all PvP in EoD Anet. It may promote people from other games to come here...especially since people are leaving WoW in mass...the problem is FF14 is getting them all instead of us.

 

People are afraid it could hurt SPvP instead of help....but I don't think that's even possible at this point. The game mode has a couple hundred players on peak Saturday times....you can't hurt it, it's already dead. Also, I always see people say "No, they do that in WvW and it's horrible", but every time I play the no downed state WvW weekends it seems like there's 3x as many players playing....so.....it seems to bring people in.

 

It's worth a try, at this point, GW2 PvP has nothing left to lose!

Edited July 23, 2021 by Luclinraider.2317

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Be still my quivering heart...

My dream would come true.

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

No.

Downed state is a fundamental aspect of gw2 combat, around which several skills are made. Learn to play with it or go play WoW Arena.

[Luclinraider.2317]

2 hours ago, Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

No.

Downed state is a fundamental aspect of gw2 combat, around which several skills are made. Learn to play with it or go play WoW Arena.

This is the problem right here!

This has put GW2 PvP in the state it's in with less than 1K players in peak times, no Esport scene, no prize pool and more bots than players.

If you like downed state, that's fine, but you can't argue that GW2 PvP needs to change something because improvements are needed.

And yes, I do play WoW Arena, but that doesn't mean I don't love GW2 and wish its PvP could see the same success.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Luclinraider.2317

[Crab Fear.1624]

3 hours ago, Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

No.

Downed state is a fundamental aspect of gw2 combat, around which several skills are made. Learn to play with it or go play WoW Arena.

The only fundamental aspect of down state in gw2, is that it is fundamentally a problem with why SPvP and competitive modes suck in general.

 

Yeah, yeah I'll go play another game...

 

 

[SevlisBavles.3059]

Down state is fine. Just change it so that if you damage someone who is down, it automatically damages whoever is rezzing them and if the rezzer is CC'd while rezzing it causes significant damage to the person being rezzed. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 hours ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

People are afraid it could hurt SPvP instead of help.

 

It isn't this, its just a weird thing to put the blame on instead of ... yknow, an incremental series of balancing efforts that made things less appealing to play over time, followed by long periods of radio silence and mechanical/trait changes nobody asked for to pave the way for EoD.

 

They can give it a shot if they want. I don't think it'll magically fix pvp, but if it does I'd be glad to be proven wrong. Just note your major reason for thinking this is suitable is the opinions of people who haven't tried the game at all, and instead watched a video. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Crab Fear.1624]

4 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

It isn't this, its just a weird thing to put the blame on instead of ... yknow, an incremental series of balancing efforts that made things less appealing to play over time, followed by long periods of radio silence and mechanical/trait changes nobody asked for to pave the way for EoD.

 

They can give it a shot if they want. I don't think it'll magically fix pvp, but if it does I'd be glad to be proven wrong. Just note your major reason for thinking this is suitable is the opinions of people who haven't tried the game at all, and instead watched a video. 

Bad balance forever because they always have to consider this element.

 

Simplify equations.

 

GW2 has a good/great combat system ruined by a crutch.

 

You can recall a fight, competitive game worth dookie that has something like this?

[Lucentfir.7430]

I don't want to pop your bubble, but downstate is a non-reason why the game mode is in such a poo pot state. Also I will say there's always going to be some reluctance from other MMO people trying other MMOs. In a PvP setting it should only allow 1-2 downstates before going defeated into defeated state, the CD for downstate reset should be long, and reset after defeat.   

[Abyssisis.3971]

Down state is trash, remove it.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Downstate isnt the issue, plenty of competitive games have a downstate system that works fine. The issue with gw2 is no one is working on balance so all the dumb bs never gets changed. Just look at the state of rezzing since the feb 2020 patch. Its the reason why downstate feels so terrible to fight right now.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

11 hours ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

Our Theme Song

 

I've been trying to get some friends on WoW Arena to come play GW2 with me and they always say "If it didn't have downed state".

 

Then they usually quote this as GW2 theme song.

 

Please remove downed state from all PvP in EoD Anet. It may promote people from other games to come here...especially since people are leaving WoW in mass...the problem is FF14 is getting them all instead of us.

 

People are afraid it could hurt SPvP instead of help....but I don't think that's even possible at this point. The game mode has a couple hundred players on peak Saturday times....you can't hurt it, it's already dead. Also, I always see people say "No, they do that in WvW and it's horrible", but every time I play the no downed state WvW weekends it seems like there's 3x as many players playing....so.....it seems to bring people in.

 

It's worth a try, at this point, GW2 PvP has nothing left to lose!

Well ff14 is getting most of the players from wow for the same reason its always had twice the playerbase as gw2......it's thee top pve mmo these days and actually has a great story through the expacs, ff14 story is on a whole different level than the gbage story in gw2 lol.  Most of the mmo players jumping to wow are pve centric players ie most mmo players. Gw2 had pvp years ago but is a trash pile nowadays, the balance is literally laughable and the devs idea of balancing when they do is dumbing the game down and removing things. Removing downstate won't resolve any of these issues and won't realistically happen, maybe a nerf to rez speed and traits but that's about all ull see.

 Lastly new mmo players want to start a mmo and invest into it knowing it will continue to thrive for years to come.....that's not gw2, not even close, sure it may drag on as it has the last 3 yrs for another 6 yrs or so but thrive it wont. At least the game should see a temporary bump in population come EoD, but again that will be short lived as its not like the teams any different than the one the games had in the last year's so.

The only players that would consider gw2 over ff14 are players that on pvp a huge majority of the time they play, hell I've only pvp'd in gw2 for 6 yrs now and even I play more ff14 than gw2 these days, difference in quality is huge between the two.

Good luck with ur quest to remove downstate tho lol.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[AliamRationem.5172]

While I acknowledge that downstate is part of the design intent and that it does promote some clutch plays and exciting turnarounds sometimes, I have to agree that overall it's trash.  It doesn't belong in competitive modes.

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

11 hours ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

This is the problem right here!

This has put GW2 PvP in the state it's in with less than 1K players in peak times, no Esport scene, no prize pool and more bots than players.

If you like downed state, that's fine, but you can't argue that GW2 PvP needs to change something because improvements are needed.

And yes, I do play WoW Arena, but that doesn't mean I don't love GW2 and wish its PvP could see the same success.

 

What has put GW2 PvP in the state it's in is the fact that, for the past few years, they've released 2 or 3 minor balance patches per year to pvp and they often miss the mark on top of that. PvP games rely on frequent fine-tuning to maintain a healthy balance, not to mention introduction of new elements to break up the mold. GW2 has neither of those, the game mode is effectively abandoned by development.

Downed state has nothing to do with sPvP's current situation, it's a scape goat by people who just don't like the mechanic for personal reasons.

[Arheundel.6451]

15 hours ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

Our Theme Song

 

I've been trying to get some friends on WoW Arena to come play GW2 with me and they always say "If it didn't have downed state".

 

Then they usually quote this as GW2 theme song.

 

Please remove downed state from all PvP in EoD Anet. It may promote people from other games to come here...especially since people are leaving WoW in mass...the problem is FF14 is getting them all instead of us.

 

People are afraid it could hurt SPvP instead of help....but I don't think that's even possible at this point. The game mode has a couple hundred players on peak Saturday times....you can't hurt it, it's already dead. Also, I always see people say "No, they do that in WvW and it's horrible", but every time I play the no downed state WvW weekends it seems like there's 3x as many players playing....so.....it seems to bring people in.

 

It's worth a try, at this point, GW2 PvP has nothing left to lose!

Problem is not downstate itself...it's the interaction some professions have with it.

 

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

On 7/23/2021 at 7:27 PM, Luclinraider.2317 said:

Our Theme Song

 

I've been trying to get some friends on WoW Arena to come play GW2 with me and they always say "If it didn't have downed state".

 

Then they usually quote this as GW2 theme song.

 

Please remove downed state from all PvP in EoD Anet. It may promote people from other games to come here...especially since people are leaving WoW in mass...the problem is FF14 is getting them all instead of us.

 

People are afraid it could hurt SPvP instead of help....but I don't think that's even possible at this point. The game mode has a couple hundred players on peak Saturday times....you can't hurt it, it's already dead. Also, I always see people say "No, they do that in WvW and it's horrible", but every time I play the no downed state WvW weekends it seems like there's 3x as many players playing....so.....it seems to bring people in.

 

It's worth a try, at this point, GW2 PvP has nothing left to lose!

Wows PvP is very old nowdays nearly every PvP MMO has this downstate mechanic in one way or another. Gw2 in general has similar problems like WoW only in smaller scale and  a bit different direction. WoW makes old dungeons and gear obsolete Gw2 makes elite specs and content types obsolete by discontinuing  them like dungeons, raids, strike-missions.  Gw 2 had once a really good connection between community and developers which also went in the last 3 years the way of the dinos. Also what splits FF14 and GW 2 is the quality of the their first add-on

 

But actually I see Arena.NET try to reverse the situation by getting back senior staff and doing long needed quality of life updates and getting a new  old community manger .

 

Improvements for PvP in the sense how the system works were given by others and me mainly about match up and how the ranking points works . By the way the last pvp event was really good for the most but finally  felt like most players were in the correct ranking.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Lord of the Fire.6870

[Dawdler.8521]

Ok lets do a quick sanity check then:

Will people stop complaining about necros if downed state is removed? 

Yes?

No? 

If you think the answer is no, the downed state has never been the problem. Class balance and design is. 

[Widmo.3186]

22 hours ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

Our Theme Song

 

I've been trying to get some friends on WoW Arena to come play GW2 with me and they always say "If it didn't have downed state".

 

Then they usually quote this as GW2 theme song.

 

Please remove downed state from all PvP in EoD Anet. It may promote people from other games to come here...especially since people are leaving WoW in mass...the problem is FF14 is getting them all instead of us.

 

People are afraid it could hurt SPvP instead of help....but I don't think that's even possible at this point. The game mode has a couple hundred players on peak Saturday times....you can't hurt it, it's already dead. Also, I always see people say "No, they do that in WvW and it's horrible", but every time I play the no downed state WvW weekends it seems like there's 3x as many players playing....so.....it seems to bring people in.

 

It's worth a try, at this point, GW2 PvP has nothing left to lose!

Hello fellow not biased person.

This topic been around multiple times, but theres one thing that usually comes up as a conclusion. As you noticed, and so did I, your friends dont like downed state. Personally, I asked multiple times ppl that played other MMOs, like WoW, BDO, FFXIV etc. what they think about gw2. Answer is ALWAYS the same, great combat, downed state sucks. I will go even further, I dont know a single person from any of my guilds that played MMOs before gw2, then started playing gw2 and likes downed state. None. All ppl that I know that say in PvP mode (such as sPvP or WvW) downed state is a great thing, they either started their mmo journey with gw2 or it is their main game and they didnt really try others or sticked for long enough on them.

Even further, all big PvP players from other MMOs, that are either youtubers or streamers, said the same thing. Downed state is a dumb mechanic, it slows the flow of the game and makes it weird. One of the reasons why they wont stay around and wont get ppl into the game, it is a weird mechanic. In many games you have arenas and kill on 0% of hp, here we have conquest (which is not so bad) and downed state, which makes game w e i r d. 

Now, lets talk about good and bad sides. Downed state provides more tactics to the field, you can leave certain person so he suffers and takes more time to spawn. You can ress him and make yourself vulnerable to attacks. But thats how it was in vanilla, nowadays its kitten. Lets be honest, its bloody kitten. Ressing in no time, downed state abilities being stronger than normal abilities, abusing certain gameplay, in WvW you can corpsejump/siegethrow and that person cant do anything (nice familyfriendly gameplay ANet) and so on. When the first time they released No Downed State week, for the very first sime since like 6-7 years of playing gw2 I felt like I enjoy flow of the game. Its fast, its fun, you can engage bigger fights 1vX, you dont have to save any cooldown thinking that you will have to stomp this donkey while others gonna rezzbot and get carried by 1 single mechanic. You can just play the game. I rolled my eyes probably thousands of times because I downed 2 ppl in 1v3 fights, and then had no cooldowns to stomp so the 3rd person resses other 2 and I have to either flee or start the fight from the very beginning.

tl;dr - downed state is a dumb mechanic that was okayish in vanilla, but the longer you play the game, the more annoying it is. It makes game slower, and holds ppl from other MMOs to try gw2 (one of the reasons). ANet wont delete it tho, because its one of the things that make gw2 special kid amongst other MMOs and for some reason they want to keep those things, even if they are badly designed. And of course it wont save gw2 pvp, nonono, the problem is somewhere else. But nonetheless Id gladly see that "mechanic" removed and game becoming more enjoyable.
PS - waiting for confused reaction from fans of fundamental aspects that made most population leave game mode, ESL stop supporting ANet and most veteran PvP players leave gw2. Thank you in advance ❤️

Edited July 24, 2021 by Widmo.3186

[Locuz.2651]

19 hours ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

I've been trying to get some friends on WoW Arena to come play GW2 with me and they always say "If it didn't have downed state".

 

"the grass is always greener"

 

Before we start the entire downed state discussion....

You know how dead wow arena/RBGs is (even when compared to GW2)? 
 

I played wow arena untill last season.  It was literally unplayable. Not figuratively but quite literally unplayable. 

 

Ppl stare at the ladders and they are like "wow thats a lot of players compared to GW2. They forget that wow doesnt have decay and 99% of the player base plays purely for the weekly cap. Once a week ....and when they are geared they stop playing. 

 

I ended last season at 2640 in 3's. The last 6-8 months of the season we had max 40-50 players playing within 300 rating range of mine during peakdays. Right now the last 3 hours 72 1800+ players played in entire Europe. ...thats right after new season release and during a peak day.

 

If we didnt have a full team we would be sitting in LFG menu for 2+ hours looking for a suitable teammate. Just to see only ppl with 1000+ less rating experience pop up.  Or worse obvious boosted players. Wow pvp is filled to the brim with boosting services (for euros) up to a point that about 50% or more of the 2k+ playerbase is boosted. 

 

That means that if you would have a full team you could play.  You would play against 2200 MMR teams tho, who happen to have 2 or 3 former worldchampions or similar in their team.  So that means you play against the best in the world....yet get 5 points for wins...and 25 for losses. This isnt rare either....at least 50% of the games where versus boost groups.  

 

  

 

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Locuz.2651

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Widmo.3186 said:

Hello fellow not biased person.

This topic been around multiple times, but theres one thing that usually comes up as a conclusion. As you noticed, and so did, your friends dont like downed state. Personally, I asked multiple times ppl that played other MMOs, like WoW, BDO, FFXIV etc. what they think about gw2. Answer is ALWAYS the same, great combat, downed state sucks. I will go even further, I dont know a single person from any of my guilds that played MMOs before gw2, then started playing gw2 and likes downed state. None. All ppl that I know that say in PvP mode (such as sPvP or WvW) downed state is a great thing, they either started their mmo journey with gw2 or it is their main game and they didnt really try others or sticked for long enough on them.

Even further, all big PvP players from other MMOs, that are either youtubers or streamers, said the same thing. Downed state is a dumb mechanic, it slows the flow of the game and makes it weird. One of the reasons why they wont stay around and wont get ppl into the game, it is a weird mechanic. In many games you have arenas and kill on 0% of hp, here we have conquest (which is not so bad) and downed state, which makes game w e i r d. 

Now, lets talk about good and bad sides. Downed state provides more tactics to the field, you can leave certain person so he suffers and takes more time to spawn. You can ress him and make yourself vulnerable to attacks. But thats how it was in vanilla, nowadays its kitten. Lets be honest, its bloody kitten. Ressing in no time, downed state abilities being stronger than normal abilities, abusing certain gameplay, in WvW you can corpsejump/siegethrow and that person cant do anything (nice familyfriendly gameplay ANet) and so on. When the first time they released No Downed State week, for the very first sime since like 6-7 years of playing gw2 I felt like I enjoy flow of the game. Its fast, its fun, you can engage bigger fights 1vX, you dont have to save any cooldown thinking that you will have to stomp this donkey while others gonna rezzbot and get carried by 1 single mechanic. You can just play the game. I rolled my eyes probably thousands of times because I downed 2 ppl in 1v3 fights, and then had no cooldowns to stomp so the 3rd person resses other 2 and I have to either flee or start the fight from the very beginning.

tl;dr - downed state is a dumb mechanic that was okayish in vanilla, but the longer you play the game, the more annoying it is. It makes game slower, and holds ppl from other MMOs to try gw2 (one of the reasons). ANet wont delete it tho, because its one of the things that make gw2 special kid amongst other MMOs and for some reason they want to keep those things, even if they are badly designed. And of course it wont save gw2 pvp, nonono, the problem is somewhere else. But nonetheless Id gladly see that "mechanic" removed and game becoming more enjoyable.
PS - waiting for confused reaction from fans of fundamental aspects that made most population leave game mode, ESL stop supporting ANet and most veteran PvP players leave gw2. Thank you in advance ❤️

 

It's like you read my mind.  Everything you describe is a major issue with competitive play in this game.  And you're right, I played WoW from vanilla through Wrath and I've played GW2 for longer than that.

[HokenPWNZ.7628]

Downstate must be PVE mechanic only

[zinkz.7045]

I don't think anyone I know from other games has ever mentioned downstate as a big issue for them not liking GW2. For most it was that they didn't like the combat or they didn't like the lack of gear/stat progression. Some of the typical complaints about the combat were it was relatively slow, clunky, spammy and little more than a glorified tab targeted system (rather than the action combat it is advertised as). 

 

Which is of course one of the reasons you have downstate in a game like this, because that glorified tab target system makes damage application very, very easy.

 

As for why the PvP dies off, the PvP in every themepark MMOPRG dies off, largely for the same reasons. One of which is for a PvP game to be successful you need the design and balance focused on it. This game was actually unusual for an MMORPG in that for the first couple of years design / balance was nearly entirely around sPvP, but once they decided to add PvE raids and began designing/balancing for that in addition to PvP, then the game was absolutely finished as a PvP game.

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by zinkz.7045

[AliamRationem.5172]

7 hours ago, Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

 

What has put GW2 PvP in the state it's in is the fact that, for the past few years, they've released 2 or 3 minor balance patches per year to pvp and they often miss the mark on top of that. PvP games rely on frequent fine-tuning to maintain a healthy balance, not to mention introduction of new elements to break up the mold. GW2 has neither of those, the game mode is effectively abandoned by development.

Downed state has nothing to do with sPvP's current situation, it's a scape goat by people who just don't like the mechanic for personal reasons.

 

But your opinion certainly isn't just "personal reasons" and everyone knows you can only have one thing wrong with PvP, right?  You say it with such authority though: "Downed state has nothing to do with sPvP's current situation,..."  Well, boys.  I don't know about you, but I'm convinced!

 

 

 

 

[Avatar.3568]

20 hours ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

This is the problem right here!

This has put GW2 PvP in the state it's in with less than 1K players in peak times, no Esport scene, no prize pool and more bots than players.

If you like downed state, that's fine, but you can't argue that GW2 PvP needs to change something because improvements are needed.

And yes, I do play WoW Arena, but that doesn't mean I don't love GW2 and wish its PvP could see the same success.

Gw2 pvp is loosing players because anet does a kitten balance since 6 years and they are not even trying. The complete ignorance and missmanagement is the root of the problem not kittening downstate

[LSD.4673]

On 7/23/2021 at 6:45 PM, Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

No.

Downed state is a fundamental aspect of gw2 combat, around which several skills are made. Learn to play with it or go play WoW Arena.

So is underwater combat, but not a single tear would be shed at its removal. 

Theyre both gimmicks from days gone by when they desperately wanted "unique" promo talking points to try to stand out with.

 

Nobody likes them.