Legendary armor by pve exploration [Merged]

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

7 hours ago, hash.8462 said:

Why not a separate Elite server with not a single interaction (TP included) with normal ones? 

That would be fun to test.

Yeah 😛

If its the casual fault that  they cant do 10k dps and we cant have hard content  , then seperate them from us  😛

/hops into the Mercedes

 

Or better yet create a "flower" that over time sprouts leafs and ultimtetly a flower , and each leaf/bloomed flower  represent different LFG chats that you can see and you can change any time 😛

The flower will be +20%  gold.

Each leaf will be +20% items to unlock the set or the other one will offer bonus gold if you play with people whose flowe hasnt sprouted .

After listing yourself into the LFG after 3-4min you can see other "leaf's chat" too , but not the "flowers"  because they are "special" 😛

If they wish to play with the filthy casuals then manually  "remove" a pedal from the flower and you can see the other pedals , but they cant see you

 

We shall call it "Fractal Tier Flower"

And any gold seller ,with a single report will move to the flower part , or simply you cant type anything in the "leafs" LFG

Edited August 17, 2021 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[DarkSnowman.8527]

Yes, open world legendary set would be totally acceptable imo. They give out WvW one for just spending time in there. No brain needed, no nothing just waste time in the WvW, gather some pips and done. Why is zerging for world bosses, meta events etc any other way lesser than just running after WvW commander?

 

And if anyone asks if WvW one is so easy to get why not get it? Answer: Then i am not playing game I care about, just wasting my time no no other other reason to just slowly look the pips go up.

[Nico.9361]

I scrolled through the thread, something that wasn't mentioned (or I've missed it) is the fractals as an alternative way of getting a PvE armor. If we were to have a new legendary armor for PvE, why not lock it behind fractal CMs. UFE being a daily reward still leaves the time gated aspect of the grind on the table.

I do think that legendaries are grindy and they should remain that way. All of the current armor options are time gated with Raids being currently a pretty easy option. Learning mechanics of those bosses doesn't take a long time and in some encounters you'll often meet people happy to do cannons on Sab or shrooms on Sloth etc.

I'm not really sure whether Anet (I really think that they shouldn't) would introduce any new legendary armor. We got 3 backpacks for 3 modes, PvE (fractals), WvW and PvP. We also got 3 armors for those exact 3 modes (PvE being tied to Raids). Legendary armory is already making everyone's lives easier by limiting the required effort to craft 1 back piece and 3 armors (1 per armor class) instead of 9 and 9 (1 per profession).

We are also already getting a free legendary amulet and precursor for gen3 weapon. Let's not give out armor for free as well.

Edited August 22, 2021 by NotTooFoolish.7412

[Teratus.2859]

12 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Anet also admits that aspirational content is desirable in the game. And getting legendary armor from that aspirational content isn't a problem, because it doesn't give the players any power. You're not locked out of the raids for any reason and not completing raids doesn't lock you out of any content -you're free to keep playing with ascended gear. Or you can complete the needed content and get the rewards you want.

The game is certainly better for it existing, no argument there.
I like the concept of raids and strikes in Gw2, the only thing this content is missing that I think would be very  beneficial is varied levels of difficulty tiers which is something they are adding to future strike missions coming in End of Dragons.
Hopefully they will go back and add them to older strikes too and raids, but I won't hold my breath on that.

People who raid often tend to want the most reward for their time, so they play efficiently, they want well constructed teams and skilled players.. this is why there is a meta that gets pushed so hard by many raiders.

Those who don't raid but want/have tried to get into it in the past are more interested in having fun and enjoying the content.
They don't care about efficiency and they don't want to integrate into meta's etc that they don't enjoy playing because that takes away the fun element.. the only thing they want to play raids for in the first place.

These two playerbases are dynamically different in priorities which is why they don't mesh so well in group content.
This is especially visible in Gw2 since Gw2 largely caters to and has amassed such a huge majority of casual players who are more interested in fun and playing the game how they want to play it... rather than being efficient and optimised.

That's not to say raiders don't enjoy playing the game their way too, for sure they have their preferences as well and that's all good.
But people who enjoy efficiency and highly optimal builds, skill rotations etc.. they are a minority in this game.. most GW2 players are just not interested in that stuff and they don't find it fun either.
Hence why the casual/raider arguments have been so common over the years lol
It's basically two groups fighting over the same thing... "we want to play this content our way" kinda funny really since there is no reason why there can't be 2 different communities doing exactly that 😄
If there were a easier tier difficulty for raiding I believe that would likely end up happening as well since it would encourage casual players to come back and try these easier modes where they're more likely to find other people like themselves to play with, overall having a more positive experience than they did in the past.
This would ultimately then lead to a larger player presence in raid content which would then lead to more investment in new raid content etc etc 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Teratus.2859

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

How can you predict what players will and won't do?

Aren't there popular quotes by inventors and such that say something along the lines of  "If I asked what the people wanted, they'd just want more of what they already have but better"?

When the developers make a content aimed for only a small minority (which they do not hide - they were talking about Raids being only for "the best of the best" from the very beginning), then obviously they should expect only a minority to play it (or even be interested in it), don't you think? Well, obviously they still expected more players to play it than how it actually ended, but it was never something aimed for general populace

 

And Henry Ford case is not this. Remember, that, for one, he knew that ultimately cars will become better than horses - it's just people didn't know that. Also, he didn't really care that most people are not interested - it's not like his factories initially had the production capacity to fully serve even those that were. Also, remember also another quote of his: "Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants, so long as it is black.". Turns out, people did want cars in other colors, and ultimately they got those.

 

Raids are not better than other types of content - they are just a different type of gameplay, that appeals to a very specific subgroup of players.  As such, it's the second quote that is more relevant there, not the first. Raids are for those that like black, but it's not something that will move those that prefer different colors.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Dante.1763]

9 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

No one was doing  raids before raids were even a thing in GW2 because raids didn't exist, though.  That's what I'm talking about.

People don't know what they want and they're apt to make one bad experience as the perceived norm and blow it out of proportion.

When anet described raids in HOTs pre release stuff they even said they were not for everyone, despite what raid players say to casuals(or anyone who doesnt raid), raids are not, and never were meant to be played by everyone, which is exactly how they got designed. Of course nobody knew, but what got added is exactly what they said they would be like.

 

And as i said Anet has data that tells them what kind of content players do, following that data they can easily determine(much more so than you or i) if "x" future content would be played. You can disagree, but its in part how marketing works, and no its not always accurate.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Tyncale.1629]

6 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

There's no need for more list bloat.  Just make your own group.  I did it two years ago and now I'm almost done with every raid achievement and every raid skin (Including  legendary armor).  And 3 years ago I used to be the biggest casual ever.  You make your own groups, you make a list of people who are okay at the game and chill friends.  Invite these people when making groups and it snowballs from there until you have so many friends or a consistent group that you can get consistent parties  for the content you want to progress.

Ah, you're a convert, someone who has seen the light. Changed his ways and is now one of "them".  No wonder you are harsh on us poor casuals who do not want to put in the work.  🙂 It's like ex-smokers, they can be pita too for the poor sods who haven't quit the habit yet.  😉

 

All in good jest, I hear you, and I  know it just needs a little extra effort to get what you want. Still, I do not like Strike Missions, I do not like to lead and coach a group, and luckily  most rewards in GW2 are completely ignorable and forgettable, so I just do not bother with that content. I also think that Strike Missions are not the success that Anet hoped they would be, which is why we will see challenge-tiers in the xpac.  Which I am looking forward too!

Edited August 17, 2021 by Tyncale.1629

[Rinagal.9235]

I'm in the same boat with Dante, since Legendary Armory was confirmed i aim for legendary gear, i joined a friendly guild, started doing raides from time to time and i must say i still don't like it. Players in a guild are very friendly and raids turned out not to be very hard, but yet i find myself looking for reasons not to go to raid when the opportunity pops up. I came from WoW where i experienced raiding and learned many things about it which turned out to be reasons i don't want to engage with raiding anymore, Guild Wars 2 afaik is only MMO that suggests meaningfull major PvE gameplay loop that is alternative to instanced content, and i got to play it hoping i'll never have to do raids again, i wonder what will happen sooner, me getting a legendary armor from raids or giving up on this idea.

 

On an OW legendary armor subject, i want it to be in a game, but at the same time i want it to present at least some mechanical challenge for players, the problem is it seems after several failed attempts on implementing challenging OW content Anet just gave up on this idea instead of analyzing why their attempts failed and trying new approaches to introduce challenging OW content to the game. The same goes for playerbase, if someone starts asking for a more challenging OW content they immideatly met with counter argument that Anet tried it and failed, and no one discuss why it failed and what could be done differently. We ended up in a situation, where part of player base zealously defend raids because they think there'll be no other challenging content if raids die though it's clear that mode isn't succesfull, and another part of player base cut out from probably most valluable reward in game because their favorite mode isn't considered to deserve that reward and i personally can agree on it even though we already have WvW legendary armor.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Rinagal.9235

[Vilin.8056]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:11 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

For inspirational content to work, it needs to be able to truly motivate players. A content that a player will not do, is not inspirational, because for that player it at best might not exist, and at worst it only works  in demoralizing way.

 

That's why good inspirational rewards are generally placed well ahead of the player, but on the road the player is likely to take. Not in something that is niche and be avoided by a huge majority of players.

Such condition applies to all challenge contents in this game, which according to developers, the issue lies in the lack of step up contents for skill progression, not due to the quality or the fun factors of challenge contents such as raid.

 

When 80% of the playerbase don't linger beyond 1.4k AP, we never even had a sustainable content that is fun for the majority.

 

No challenge contents are fun for bad players, when the majority of players in this game are so confused even in basic combat, it became a major issue across all game modes, thus everything in this game became not fun.

 

Thread like this is one such example, it shows that casual players finds fun solely from gear grind in solo instead of experimenting with builds or handling a non zerging role of a group in various game modes. This game never designed its progression based on gearscoring, clearly many casuals don't think that way.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[Vilin.8056]

22 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And Henry Ford case is not this. Remember, that, for one, he knew that ultimately cars will become better than horses - it's just people didn't know that. Also, he didn't really care that most people are not interested - it's not like his factories initially had the production capacity to fully serve even those that were. Also, remember also another quote of his: "Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants, so long as it is black.". Turns out, people did want cars in other colors, and ultimately they got those.

Yet time has proven that people eventually get behind wheels, no matter what color paint they would skin on.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

18 hours ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

Ah, you're a convert, someone who has seen the light. Changed his ways and is now one of "them".  No wonder you are harsh on us poor casuals who do not want to put in the work.  🙂 It's like ex-smokers, they can be pita too for the poor sods who haven't quit the habit yet.  😉

 

All in good jest, I hear you, and I  know it just needs a little extra effort to get what you want. Still, I do not like Strike Missions, I do not like to lead and coach a group, and luckily  most rewards in GW2 are completely ignorable and forgettable, so I just do not bother with that content. I also think that Strike Missions are not the success that Anet hoped they would be, which is why we will see challenge-tiers in the xpac.  Which I am looking forward too!

I saw a reward I wanted and went for it.  The decision was as easy as me learning dungeons for the armor skins I wanted back when there were only core specs and you had to put points into each line.  Was the content easy?  Not really, but I did learn it and eventually overcame most of it by using every resource available to.  I eventually got pulled into raids by the friend group I made doing that content.   Do I enjoy raids?  That's a topic for another thread.

[Astralporing.1957]

42 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Yet time has proven that people eventually get behind wheels, no matter what color paint they would skin on.

Time also proved, that most people end up behind a wheel of a vehicle that is not black.

[Vilin.8056]

36 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Time also proved, that most people end up behind a wheel of a vehicle that is not black.

Yet which colors to chose is still determined by car drivers instead of horse riders.

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Yet which colors to chose is still determined by car drivers instead of horse riders.

Are you suggesting that horse riders are not capable of choosing their preferred colors?

[Linken.6345]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Are you suggesting that horse riders are not capable of choosing their preferred colors?

Well horses dont come in all colours have you seen a neon green one for example?

[Dante.1763]

11 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well horses dont come in all colours have you seen a neon green one for example?

Im sure you could get a jacket for them in that colour though xD

 

In this case with the phrase used above: We sell brown, black and white horses, but we dont sell or even offer grey horses.

[hash.8462]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well horses dont come in all colours have you seen a neon green one for example?

You can paint it 😁, this shade of green is of your taste? >LINK<

[Lupini.6938]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:33 AM, lokh.2695 said:

The amount of open world PvE needed to be on par with what is required for armor in Raids/WvW/PvP would be so high we would have endless threads complaining about it. I doubt the people who open this topic every two weeks are aware of that.

 

And yet, many of us play just as many hours open world PvE as others do in raids, WvW, or PvP.  We also like convenience of not having to have bags full of gear if we swap builds.  As we PvE'ers chase our achievements, why not chase achievements related to legendary items...?

Yes, the open landscape is not as challenging (I've played all modes), yet there are those of us that see a big boss or event ahead and quickly change builds and equipment to fit the battle.  PvE'rs to change builds as profession traits and skills are balanced, and going to the mystic forge to change stats is getting boring.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Lupini.6938 said:

And yet, many of us play just as many hours open world PvE as others do in raids, WvW, or PvP.  We also like convenience of not having to have bags full of gear if we swap builds.  As we PvE'ers chase our achievements, why not chase achievements related to legendary items...?

Oh, but you CAN chase achievements related to legendary items, not sure what's the point of pretending you can't.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[superkaratemonkey.7408]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:43 AM, Dante.1763 said:

I do agree here, but i would at least be able to point to an anet post saying "No.", that is imo a problem, they never want to say one or the other: See tengu.

They didnt make raids for all of us though. They made it for a very small group.

That small group literally funds most of the gem store purchases to keep this game's remaining staff on a payroll to even make content for open world PvE'ers, and even that amount of content is slim.

 

And no, raiding is not a small minority, most players raid now, I'd say roughly 50% of the game at this point has or still experiences raid content because it's not hard to get into.

 

That would be like saying fractals groups are in a minority. Before, Yes, both of these areas of the game would be considered "minorities" even though I think raids has kept a lot of players still in this game otherwise it would be more dead. But now? No, I think most people run atleast daily T4's and do raids on a regular basis, because they've evolved to that content over time due to the profit and gain you get from it. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by superkaratemonkey.7408

[Cipisek.2147]

On 8/15/2021 at 2:55 PM, Dante.1763 said:

It was very clear what i said.

 

But here, more info: If raids had been made for -everyone- to play they would have been no harder than the first few strike mission bosses they added.

Please no, the very first strike mission is literally a DPS golem, most of the other strike missions arent even hard. There should be some effort involved in getting legendary armor because well it is a legendary. 

[Dante.1763]

Just now, superkaratemonkey.7408 said:

That small group literally funds most of the gem store purchases to keep this game's remaining staff on a payroll to even make content for open world PvE'ers, and even that amount of content is slim.

 

And no, raiding is not a small minority, most players raid now, I'd say roughly 50% of the game at this point has or still experiences raid content because it's not hard to get into.

Yea no, you are going to have provide proof to me that raiders are the ones spending the big bucks, when most games depend on players like me to fund the game, we are called Whales and most of a games income comes from a small percentage of players, of which one does not have to be a "hardcore player".

 

Im probably in the top 100 for money spent on the game, Further very few of the raiders i know ever spend money on the game, they earn enough gold in game to convert that they dont have to spend any money on the game.

 

Statistics also show you are wrong on the number of players doing raids past just killing 1 boss, and so too does anets development of the game, if raids truly where popular with such a large number of players they would still be developed, instead of more strikes being added.

 

The number of players who have done raids enough to get a single set of raid legendary armor is drastically lower than the the total population of players who have killed even a single boss.

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Cipisek.2147 said:

Please no, the very first strike mission is literally a DPS golem, most of the other strike missions arent even hard. There should be some effort involved in getting legendary armor because well it is a legendary. 

We wont ever agree on this by the way. I think an open world pve set(With a skin based off the current ascended armor set, so no unique skin) would be a massive benefit to the game, and to a much larger portion of the playerbase than is currently offered via the raid set.

 

 

[Cipisek.2147]

1 minute ago, Dante.1763 said:

We wont ever agree on this by the way. I think an open world pve set(With a skin based off the current ascended armor set, so no unique skin) would be a massive benefit to the game, and to a much larger portion of the playerbase than is currently offered via the raid set.

 

 

How exactly would this benefit the game? It would pretty heavily impact the economy because alot of it revolves around crafting specific armor and weapon sets, if you just give out stat changing gear no matter the skin it will impact the economy. Not even talking about long term progression. There are people who craft legendaries because of the QoL and not for the skin, now that you give this basically for free they will leave the game a lot sooner because they got what they wanted.

[The Fear.3865]

On 8/16/2021 at 1:17 PM, Dante.1763 said:

Ah but see, i do raids, and i will be getting the one set of envoy armor i want. The other two weights have such awful skins(imo) and i wont be going for them, and the ring will have to wait until(or even if) anet introduces a non effect version of it.

 

Not everyone who thinks pve(non raid armor) is a good idea cant do raids. [...] 

 

18 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Yea no, you are going to have provide proof to me that raiders are the ones spending the big bucks [...] 

 

Im probably in the top 100 for money spent on the game, Further very few of the raiders i know ever spend money on the game, they earn enough gold in game to convert that they dont have to spend any money on the game.

 

Well, I know one raider probably in the top 100 for money spent on the game. 

 

Btw, microtransaction addiction does not give you the knowledge about what anet should or shouldnt do. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by The Fear.3865
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