Willbender Feedback Thread

[Unknown.3976]

3 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Willbender will end up like mirage. Everyone in the PoF beta said mirage is the worst elite spec - 100% trash. No sustain and all.

 

And 2 weeks after release, when competent players started to figure out the spec, it turned out to be the most overpowered thing in the game.

 

Willbender and lack of sustain... did you already notice that you don't have to run full zerk / dual swords and that you have a secondary weaponset and that you have core skills you can equip?

 

 

comparing mirage to will bender? are you serious? Mirage has rune of tormenting plus sigil of energy to help out with sustain while maintaining a glassy build. 

[Kuya.6495]

56 minutes ago, Andred.1087 said:

 

Well, technically you can use Judge's Intervention while channeling it for a fun trick 😛 But nobody should fall for that one twice. Also it really sucks to bring a specific utility just to make your elite actually viable. Definitely needs a significant rework.

I find it always lands if you cast JI at the last second before heaven's palm hits.  Practically guarantees a hit unless the player is watching you cast it and knows you have JI. But you're right. It's not particularly powerful for something that requires you blow an elite plus a utility to make good. Maybe it needs way higher damage. I still like combining this too because most people are perplexed when you hit them with this combo.

[Kuya.6495]

1 hour ago, Andred.1087 said:

 

Well, technically you can use Judge's Intervention while channeling it for a fun trick 😛 But nobody should fall for that one twice. Also it really sucks to bring a specific utility just to make your elite actually viable. Definitely needs a significant rework.

I find it always lands if you cast JI at the last second before heaven's palm hits.  Practically guarantees a hit unless the player is watching you cast it and knows you have JI. But you're right. It's not particularly powerful for something that requires you blow an elite plus a utility to make good. Maybe it needs way higher damage. I still like combining this too because most people are perplexed when you hit them with this combo.

 

Edit: double post. Please delete

Edited August 19, 2021 by Kuya.6495

[Zoid.2568]

Heaven's Palm should be instant. Almost impossible to land a hit with it in pvp.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

From pvp testing:

 

Crashing courage needs to grant stability and aegis at the start of the cast.

 

Rushing justice needs to have the aftercast removed, and it would be nice if it did a bit more power damage (does less than an auto attack right now)

 

Executioners calling needs a quicker animation, and possibly bigger hitbox range or more damage

 

The charge then teleport on advancing strike feels a bit weird

 

Heel crack needs something else to make it worthwhile

 

Heavens palm feels weak, maybe if it was unblockable and gave resistance to ignore blind

 

Flash combo feels good to use, but its not worth it since you cant reliably get repose. Its just a worse JI since you cant precast other abilities into it.

 

The 1st column stat traits feel very uninspired

 

Basically, having clear animations is good. It allows for reactions to abilities and keeps combat feeling fair. The problem is many animations are very clunky and feel like they halt the flow of combat.

 

 

 

[Makion.3457]

Anet seriously, whats with the crappy animation of Reverse of fortune heal on Charrs, instead of doing a cool blocking animation like humans it looks like Charrs cowers in fear, cmon!  

[Makion.3457]

19 minutes ago, Zoid.2568 said:

Heaven's Palm should be instant. Almost impossible to land a hit with it in pvp.

Also the skill fall on your head so its amazingly easy to dodge. 

[Zeph.5927]

39 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Willbender will end up like mirage. Everyone in the PoF beta and release day said mirage is the worst elite spec - 100% trash. No sustain and crappy dodges.

 

And 2 weeks after release, when competent players started to figure out the spec, it turned out to be the most overpowered thing in the game.

 

Willbender and lack of sustain... did you already notice that you don't have to run full zerk / dual swords and that you have a secondary weaponset and that you have core skills you can equip?

 

Except that this situation compared to that one is absolutely nothing alike.

[Tulkas.2576]

32 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Willbender will end up like mirage. Everyone in the PoF beta and release day said mirage is the worst elite spec - 100% trash. No sustain and crappy dodges.

 

And 2 weeks after release, when competent players started to figure out the spec, it turned out to be the most overpowered thing in the game.

 

Willbender and lack of sustain... did you already notice that you don't have to run full zerk / dual swords and that you have a secondary weaponset and that you have core skills you can equip?

 

I tried a number of different builds, including a full meditation build with GS + Sw/Sh and full celestial. Basically I tried it with all the same builds I run currently but with WB in place of DH/Radiance/Virtues. 

Core and DH do more damage and have more sustain no matter what the build is. Willbender has better but jankier mobility than core and slightly better mobility than DH. 
 

I know anet is not going to release it as is and I’m sure it’ll be much better when it is released so I’m not worried about it, but they want feedback and we are giving it to them. 
 

honestly I’d prefer that WB starts out weak and gets tuned up rather than being OP off the bat and getting nerfed every beta until launch. 

[Monarc.9726]

53 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Willbender will end up like mirage. Everyone in the PoF beta and release day said mirage is the worst elite spec - 100% trash. No sustain and crappy dodges.

I just don't get the comparison to the Mirage, which is the spec I play the most after Guardian FB, DH and Core.

 

The issue with Willbender isn't that it's weak, although it does less damage than Core and DH, so there's that, but it's more that the fundamental design is clunky, the animation locks are brutal and the skills are slow compared to other duelist specs (such as Mirage axe 2, 3 and pretty much every mirage skill) and the spec just doesn't work well with the rest of the Guardian kit. 

 

I don't see how this is going to be OP and great at launch in its current state. I tried just about every logical combination of traits, weapons and skills, along with a condi burn build out of curiosity, while roaming in WvW and open world PVE and I didn't find a magic formula that made the gameplay any better. 

[Latinkuro.9420]

Here's my 2 cents on this willbender.

 

It feels all wrong, here's why.

 

1 - The utilities and ultimate are mostly bare hand combat style, I keep thinking man, knuckle weapons would feel great here.

2 - There's one utility that takes movement control away from you, and feels mostly like another evade aka it feels like lazy design.

3 - Every time I use a willbender ability, I keep wanting knuckle weapons, they would feel a lot more right for this elite spec the way it is designed right now.

 

 

 

[Phoenix.6023]

So with the Willbender.. for starters. I get that this is the Guild Wars 2 answer to the monk.
However, there are quite a few issues with it and is by far the class out of the 3 that have been released that probably needs the most attention at this stage.
 

1. So: Let's start with the traits, where arguably the biggest flaw comes in.. The Willbender really only has one effective way to build it, a lot of the traits are redundant due to the sheer playstyle and concept of the class itself. I feel like the development was all over the place and people couldn't decide on what exactly they wanted their "Monk" class to do. The traits themselves, need to be more streamlined towards the intent of the class to open up more options. I understand that there intent is to make the players decide on whether to focus on their virtues, their maneuverability or their damage. But for example:
    
   • All 3 of the Major Adept Traits are absolutely redundant and I feel like it's just lazy development, there have got to be better focuses on the class as a whole than to no brainer trade off stats to increase stats, two of which 90% of players will never choose because this is a "DPS/Burst" Focus class with hardly any genuine options for anything else.
   • Holy Reckoning, should probably be reworked and merged with lethal tempo, to allow what will be for the most part a rampaging frontline guardian with the lowest heavy health pool, have a chance at some sustain during 1 on 1 combat or 1vX even against Raid Bosses, Willbender's get punished hard once their Aegis is gone. In PvP Willbender's are better at running away from fights like knock off Thief imitations, than actually surviving a fight long enough to genuinely win it.
   • Tyrant's Momentum is also another really disappointingly lazy trait. Wasting a perfectly good opportunity to come up with something more meaningful to the class itself. This should have been reconsidered and merged with Lethal Tempo to open up space for something more creative, perhaps weapon wise even.
   • Phoenix Protocol made me twitch irritably. Guardian could have used access to Alacrity for a long time... This trait should probably be or reworked as the virtue of resolve could perhaps work in a different way for the monk like Willbender to sustain such as the Warriors Defiance Stance for 3 seconds upon activating or something along those lines. Providing the Willbender a more tactical way to utilise the trait. Anyway the Alacrity and Regeneration should be removed from Phoenix Protocol, and applied to absolute Resolution. In the virtues trait line and while you're at it 'Absolute' "Resolution" Resolution should also be provided within that trait as well. If you're going to name this trait Phoenix Protocol, Then be inspired from the name and not just throw random support boons on it and assume that's good enough.
   • Vanguard Tactics, I have the same gripe as Phoenix Protocol. It's a trait that by suggestion, has so many opportunities to do something far more technical than apply a couple of extra boons, which should already be in the Virtues Trait Line  under Indomitable Courage. Which should probably grant Protection and Resistance to truly represent the "Indomitable" In the name.
      
2. The Sword Offhand... was terrible from the start. Offhand Axe may have actually been interesting for close range/melee styled combat perhaps with options to close range cleave/physical Crowd Control focused skills with maneuverability. I would have thought Firebrand should have had Warhorn instead of Axe. Anyway, The Sword Skills themselves, are a little clunky and while I get the intent is for them to couple well with Sword Main hand. Sword Offhand Skills need to be able to chain with sword main hand smoother, quicker.
    
   • I feel like there is a subtle delay. Executioners Calling.. if we're doing this right, should have a third strike. Two outward slashes either side of the opponent. Render, Lunge and Stab/Pierce, Then Tear Outward. Good opportunity to apply bleed/condition damage for the 3rd strike.
   • Advancing Strike needs a slightly longer range, and could certainly do with a that takes place during the dash as you can't cancel Advancing Strike once you've activated it
      
3.  The Utility Skills: Just make them smoother and more responsive, perhaps rework a couple of them as well. The Physical skills do work.. But they feel unnatural and very much like a disproportionate rampage warrior, trying to do daredevil things. If that makes any sense... Just very clunky, wide open, big gaps in I-Frames between Skill Combos/Transitions.
    
   • So Roiling Light is a prime example of that clunky, wide open, big gap in I-Frames between the skill combo's and transitions. But After the evade, when the skill flips and changes to Quick Retribution. There is approximately. 00.70 seconds of delay between the when roiling light ends and the charge for quick retribution begins. That opening needs to be more responsive for the skill to be polished. I would actually increase the target cap to 3. One Target for the knee thrust. Another for each palm/elbow that would rhetorically make contact as the arms would be are technically raised in a boxers guard during the animation and how that particular strike is performed in Kung-Fu. So it would also make sense that with the guard and the name "Retribution" perhaps consider granting Aegis for Approximately 4-5 seconds. Grant Aegis on the start of the charge, and then for the duration of the stun that follows, then allow for roughly 1.5 seconds to reposition/evade or finish the follow up.
   • Whirling Light has a lot of potential... But it should be implemented better and continue with the follow up system. Consider a Shadow Step, Ground Targeted. With a range of Approximately 750-800. Shadowstep would apply slow, vulnerability and blind to any targets within range of the shadowstep itself. Perhaps consider the something along the lines of "Blinding Light" for the skill, which then Transitions into "Whirling Light" As the skill itself, can be slow to reach it's target or maintain it's intended damage on said targets.
   • Flash Combo is another clunky skill. I like it, I think it's a great skill. But the Repose delay is lethal. It's roughly 1.2ish seconds delay between when flash combo ends and repose begins.
   • Heel Crack. Okay.. I scoffed.. What the hell is this? And why does it have a 20 second cool down? Just get rid of it. It's not necessary. Please rework.
   • Heavens Palm: I feel like Heel Crack should and could be the follow up on that initial target once their knockdown has finished. Just to really lock that target into place. In which case the heel crack should also apply 5 stacks of vulnerability and cripple for the same duration the target is vulnerable for.
      
4.  Virtues: Please just rework them and increase their range. They're really cool concepts but they just don't perform as well as they are perhaps intended or should. All of the virtues should have a range of probably around 700-ish, and the duration for each of the effects to adequately and consistently trigger Willbender Flames. Should all be around 8 seconds each. I'm half mindful to suggest increasing it to 10 seconds.

 

[Mediahead.3542]

I personally think Willbender is okay, although the heal skill is a little underwhelming. I ended up using the healing signet instead when I ran mine through Bjora

[Phoenix.6023]

4 minutes ago, Mediahead.3542 said:

I personally think Willbender is okay, although the heal skill is a little underwhelming. I ended up using the healing signet instead when I ran mine through Bjora

The Heal Skill should honestly work exactly the same as the Engineers A.E.D Perhaps with a counter or something even at the cost of a slightly reduced recovery/heal.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

4 hours ago, Andred.1087 said:

 

Well, technically you can use Judge's Intervention while channeling it for a fun trick 😛 But nobody should fall for that one twice. Also it really sucks to bring a specific utility just to make your elite actually viable. Definitely needs a significant rework.

Core Medi Hammerguard already does JI + CC better with either Hammer 4 or Hammer 5 that doesn't even require an elite skill.

[Kuya.6495]

5 minutes ago, Darknicrofia.2604 said:

Core Medi Hammerguard already does JI + CC better with either Hammer 4 or Hammer 5 that doesn't even require an elite skill.

Not really. 4 just knocks them away from you (when you want them close) and 5 just locks them in but they can still retaliate or block. Heaven's Palm on the other hand is a knock down with a decent duration so you can use the opportunity to spike the enemy unimpeded (it lasts so long you can even use sword 4!).  The issue is that the windup is massive and there is practically no damage on the elite to boot.  The very least they could do is give it might stacks or vuln stacks (or both!)

Edited August 19, 2021 by Kuya.6495

[Tungsten Monarch.6058]

Epiphany: After writing a lengthy involved critique of the specialization here is my suggestion.

Throw it away and start over.  Yes it's that non-salvageable without making a brand new specialization.

[Buran.3796]

4 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Willbender will end up like mirage. Everyone in the PoF beta and release day said mirage is the worst elite spec - 100% trash. No sustain and crappy dodges.

 

 

   So they plan to reduce WB evades to 1?

[cloudsareyum.8120]

the feel of playing this class is pretty cool and works with the concept. I think virtuoso is the most fun, but this is pretty fun too. I haven't figured it all out yet but it's generally fun

 

i feel like there does need some tuning so that it's a bit stronger maybe, but I haven't played it in enough depth to say

Edited August 19, 2021 by cloudsareyum.8120

[Diswan.8156]

As another note to the balance discussion, one important detail that no one has mentioned is the awesome colored flames that show on your hands after activating a virtue. 

The particle effect is really nice, it helps a lot in being aware of the buff you are currently using, it adds a lot flavor to the identity of the class and helps the player know when the buff is over without losing inmersion and having to look into icons.

 

As it stands right now they are hard to identify because they are really small. I think it would work a lot better and look way cooler if the size of those flames was increased a little. 

 

what do you guys think about that?

 

 

 

[Clockless.2503]

I've played it more now, and I think it's not entirely unplayable.  You just have very, very few options to change how its played.  I think a complete rework of the traits is needed to create some kind of second playstyle, either boon support or condi, doesn't matter, just so that you get some kind of choice.

 

I think all of the virtues need a better range, some additional power.  I didn't want to complain about the range the first time around because I genuinely thought it was a "learn to play" problem, but it isn't.  You just can't quite get to where you want to be, and trying to get there often puts you in combat before you get a chance to strike.  Sword 2 and Judge's Intervention work a lot better than the new skills at their intended task.  Sw2 even gets a symbol on top of it; nothing in the whole elite works as well in its own mechanics as a core skill.   The active power is a different problem; I don't mind the passives disappearing, but it seems like the actives only proc at the opening of the strike and then can't be reactivated without switching virtues.  I don't think that's how it should work (if that's how it does, I found it hard to tell) your active virtue should reactivate its effect every time you enter combat.  I'd also like to see an aura or something to let you know which virtue is active.

 

I'd still rather dump the off-hand sword as a failed experiment and try something else, but if it needs to stay, Executioner's Calling is the big problem.  I'd like to see it change to a pull like axe 3.  Get rid of the vuln if you have to, you can't do much with condi anyway.  And I think a rework of Sw3 is important, even if it only shows up when you are dual-wielding swords, to provide some benefit for the titular profession symbol.  Otherwise Greatsword is easily the strongest option, followed by Sword/Focus, followed, strangely, by Scepter/Focus.  Sword/Sword doesn't even rate.

[Clockless.2503]

3 minutes ago, Diswan.8156 said:

As another note to the balance discussion, one important detail that no one has mentioned is the awesome colored flames that show on your hands after activating a virtue. 

The particle effect is really nice, it helps a lot in being aware of the buff you are currently using, it adds a lot flavor to the identity of the class and helps the player know when the buff is over without losing inmersion and having to look into icons.

 

As it stands right now they are hard to identify because they are really small. I think it would work a lot better and look way cooler if the size of those flames was increased a little. 

 

what do you guys think about that?

 

 

 

I kind of saw that, but I didn't know what it was.  Figures I would see you mention this right after I complained that it wasn't there.  It does need to be a little more visible.

[toxicarko.6923]

Hello here is my little fly review on the Willbender :
 
 That's a really cool specialization for the guard, I really like the freedom you've taken to make him a sort of bluish Revenant 🙂
 
 But, because with me there is often a but, the problem is that this class came out very nerfed ... Let me explain: the damage is clearly not up to par, the f2 needs to be reworked in my opinion, the f3  is too easy to interrupt during our little glide (same for the elite)… The 4 of the sword is quite difficult to place in the middle of a fight unlike the 5 which is really great, but the damage is not there  for these two left hand sword skills .. At a pinch for the 4 I would have seen a defensive skill (blocking) which would allow to give two butts with his two weapons in counter attack (the counter attack would differ depending on the  right hand weapon), without the damage being enormous or even without necessarily thinking of a CC!

 After that, is it really necessary to delete the passive on the virtues?  Because there we lost a whole branch of traits (the virtues) the burn every 3 attacks, the f2 for the alteration dispel I do not know if it works ... Anyway if you remove the liabilities of the guard after you have to be  up to par in traits, weapon skills, and utilities ... which is not necessarily the case here: s
 
 In short, I like the gameplay, I like the mobility, I like the idea of this goalkeeper in general but as explained previously it's much too nerfed… Go to the end of your / our dreams ArenaNet please, because there overall in pvp, I cannot take a 1v1, and in teamfight you have to be very careful because it is very weak... Anyway it is the first test you can still upgrade the class 😉
 
 Thank you for your work, and I hope this spec will be meta or near when EOD is released in pvp!  Enjoy!

[MagusShade.2358]

I think the virtues should be stances like elementalist. The movement portion could happen on an overload like Tempest. This still has downside because you can only be in f1, f2 OR f3 stance and the other 2 are turned off. That would be a cool gameplay mix-up. Lethal Tempo would encourage you to continually swap stances. Even then the animation stalls and frozen in place uppercuts would make its place in competitive game modes dubious. 

 

The adept trait line is a joke and I've actually seen people suggesting to just not choose one.

 

Because of the lack of passive virtues the other guardian trait lines are confusing when playing as this elite subclass.

Edited August 20, 2021 by MagusShade.2358

[Riot Inducer.8964]

Just going to leave my initial impressions here. Overall I like the feel of the spec, a more mobile martial arts focused guardian is lots of fun. Sadly the whole thing feels a bit undertuned atm, things just don't seem to hit quite hard enough, be it the sword skills, the utilities or the virtues and trait functions, it's all just a bit less impactful than I feel it should be. I can't speak to exact numbers, I leave that to the hardcore folks, it's a general feeling across the whole spec.

 

The one bit of specific critique I can give is the range of the F1 and F2 abilities. Due to how the virtues for this spec are designed you want to use your virtues early, ideally opening the fight with them but the F1 and F2 are both 450 range lunges, which is notably shorter range than the lunge/teleport abilities on the sword and greatsword at 600 range. In practice you end up using your weapon's 600 range ability or a utility to open the fight then use a virtue when you are already at the enemy, wasting the movement portion of the skill. Bump at least the F1 up to 600 range and it will feel a lot better to use imo.   

Edited August 20, 2021 by Riot Inducer.8964