Exotic armory

[mtpelion.4562]

2 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Yup, because the economy is more important than gameplay.

No, the economy is equally as important as gameplay. Without a healthy economy, rewards are all useless. Useless rewards create no incentive, so players stop playing regardless of the gameplay.

 

It's a symbiotic system. Without both, the system dies.

[LuRkEr.9462]

"Give an inch, take a mile" - that is all.

(ANet giving earned QoL and players wanting it for basically no effort)

[Mungrul.9358]

46 minutes ago, mtpelion.4562 said:

No, the economy is equally as important as gameplay. Without a healthy economy, rewards are all useless. Useless rewards create no incentive, so players stop playing regardless of the gameplay.

 

It's a symbiotic system. Without both, the system dies.

Huh, then Destiny 2 must be doing something right then, because there's no economy there, yet people still seem to be playing for rewards. And the top end ones are substantially easier to get than the ones in GW2.

[ASP.8093]

On 8/18/2021 at 6:14 AM, jhnsmth.2641 said:

In this way this game would be more accessible like the Guild Wars 1 was.

Have you forgotten the process of obtaining runes and insignias in GW1?

[Rod.6581]

This is too random not to be a trolling attempt by OP.

[Mungrul.9358]

3 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

Have you forgotten the process of obtaining runes and insignias in GW1?

Yeah, runes and insignias were a PITA in GW1; but conversely, builds were nowhere near as dependent on gear as they are in GW2.

I think that's the critical big mistake ANet made when moving from GW1 to GW2. They should never have made builds so heavily dependent on gear.

They then compounded this by adding Ascended to the game at a higher gearscore than exotic, despite widespread community objections at the time.

 

Weapons should have damage stats, armour should have protection stats.

All other stats should be controlled through character build.

[Moradorin.6217]

On 8/18/2021 at 3:14 AM, jhnsmth.2641 said:

This game should support all players, not just the rich ones.

 

Anet should introduce exotic armory where we could select stats like the legendary armory except the exotic stats

which are somewhat weaker.

The unlock mechanism could be acquiring (account bound) exotic items.

 

In this way this game would be more accessible like the Guild Wars 1 was.

 

The armory was made IMO for a few reasons and its 100% fair for Legendary and wouldnt be fair for ascended or anything else. Here is why: Legendary is all account bound and very expensive compared to ascended or exotic, etc, Last year when the template system was added to the game is created allot of new issues for people with legendary items, some of which are still around. for isntance each time you swap a legendary item from inventory into an equipment slot (or vice verse) the stats and contents of the legendary get reset unless its stored in an equipment tab. This meant that after the template system it was harder not easier to manage swaps with legendary vs non-legendary, but legendary is supposed to be the ultimate item level so it was bad to have its function broken/nerfed by templates. The armory doesnt actually fix that but it makes owning legendary more valuable than ascended again. Seriously, even some ascended can have its stats reset as much as you want on from inventory for a small cost of about 1-2g each time (Mists, and bloodstone items) So they came up with the legendary system. 

 

Before the template and armory system was added you could set stats, sigins, infusions, etc into a legendary and it would stay. You could just place them in shared inventory and move them sigils and all betw.een toons. This was always a function of legendary, but the template broke it because then stats would be reset and contents fall out and stay on one toon. So now at least we have the Armory to make moving them and using on multiple toons more convenient but we still have the actual legendary item swap issue in fact now you have pull a blank one from armory allot of the time and set it all up again. So I think it works out ok. That is, even people with leg have some little issues they didnt have before templates, but overall legendary is unquestionably "better" than ascended again, which it should be.

 

Im pretty sure the monetary goal of the Armory is to encourage more players to progress to legendary because it has more obvious benefits now than just a skin and quick stat swaps while also encouraging people with legendary stuff to buy more build tabs &/or char slots to take advantage of the Armory features. So its kinda win win. Players gain armory, anet gains more revenue and less pissed off vet players.

 

I know it might seem like everyone should get it, but it would kinda mess up the econ to do what you suggest. Also as others mentioned Exotic is soulbound it would break the game design.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Moradorin.6217
clarify a point

[Gehenna.3625]

2 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Yup, because the economy is more important than gameplay.

What a silly thing to say. So black and white. The game economy is very important. Just go to SWTOR to see what happens if you don't take the economy seriously. At the start 1 million credits was a lot and there was an achievement for reaching 10 million credits. People have many billions now and I mean literally billions and not as a figure of speech. If you want to buy anything of some value you have to count at least 100 million for it. Try that as a new player and seeing those amounts.

 

Also it's not correct to make the comparison with gameplay. The gameplay is not affected by this at all. What you mean is QoL and just a small part of it. And it's available to all but you have to do a lot for it and that's ok actually.

 

It's typical really cause the legendary armory is barely out and people are already complaining that they want it too, but without putting the effort in it. I'm sorry but that's not cool. Just my opinion of course but there it is. (And no I don't have a lot of legendary gear. I have some legy weapons and currently am working on an accessory. No legy armour at all).

[kharmin.7683]

18 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

 Just go to SWTOR to see what happens if you don't take the economy seriously. At the start 1 million credits was a lot and there was an achievement for reaching 10 million credits. People have many billions now and I mean literally billions and not as a figure of speech. If you want to buy anything of some value you have to count at least 100 million for it. Try that as a new player and seeing those amounts.

 

 

I can attest to this having started SWTOR earlier this summer.

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Huh, then Destiny 2 must be doing something right then, because there's no economy there, yet people still seem to be playing for rewards. And the top end ones are substantially easier to get than the ones in GW2.

 

How is this an argument?

 

Comparing a game WITH and in-game economy to one without is complete apples to oranges. It does not validate the point that economy is not important, given the game WITH an economy is balanced around that and the game without one is balanced around that as well.

 

Also let's not pretend that Destiny 2 is all that great. That game has its very own issues with loot (serious issues btw), and some of those directly stem from NOT having an economy.

 

There are dozens of MMORPGs where the economy is an afterthought, and I can tell you from personal experience: players there are by far not happier. On the contrary.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Mungrul.9358]

It's proof that a game can work without one. That's all. Personally, I tend to think there's few if any good examples of working economies in games, and that overall, they're probably better off without them.

And that's all games, not just MMOs.

 

That GW2's has been designed by an in-house economist as a way to separate players from their cash is all you need to know about the economy here.

[Excursion.9752]

This is what happens when you live in a society that everyone gets a medal. The fact of the matter is if you want the functionality you have to do the work. You can not disrespect the people who have put in the time and effort to get the legendary items by adding  a easier and cheaper work around. The game is not supporting the rich players. The game is supporting people who have dedication to the game and play it regularly. If you do not have the time and dedication its not the games fault. nor is it Anet's problem.

 

I had 3 legendary items when the armory was announced. I refused to make more because there was not a solution to easily share those items with my other characters. Once I knew it was coming I made  25 more by the time it was released. I put in the work.

 

Now people want to tell us that they want to add items for a few gold to their "Exotic Armory" for the stats they want is a huge slap in my face. Especially now since most stats, if not all, can be purchased through the trading post. The amount of rage these forums would see if something like this came into effect would be great.

 

I mean it would be a little better if you were asking for an ascended armory, not much, and I still wouldn't agree with it.

But while we are in the spirit of making unacceptable requests Can we have a vendor that sells gifts of exploration? I don't feel like doing world completion....

[Mungrul.9358]

Lol, I love how deeply ingrained the puritan work ethic is, so it's got you all spouting how a game should be work 😄

[Veprovina.4876]

Most exotics are free lol, just get a set for each character and a few spares with different stats and you're golden for most of the content. 

[Mungrul.9358]

Let's play this another (equally obnoxious) way then.

 

So I earn a fair chunk of cash in the real world doing  real work. This means I haven't really got time to waste working in a game, so I'm prepared to pay real money to buy Legendaries. Let me buy my way through the legendary armory with real money.

 

Surely that has more value to ANet than some nerds with more free time than money who take up server resources 24/7.

 

I can't see anything wrong with that. After all, it's already been established by the people who are against giving the ability to swap stats to all that it's not like this would give me any more in-game power than any other player, so it's not pay-to-win.

 

Or are you saying that fantasy work in a game world has more value than actual work in the real world?

[Mungrul.9358]

Hell, make it really exclusive, and only allow players to buy it with real money and not gems. That way, only the people who have really earned it can get it.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

8 hours ago, jhnsmth.2641 said:

QoL should not be exclusive to Legendary items.

It is so stupid to not let beginners/casuals to try/use the armory features.

It is against the accessibility of this game.

 

Exotic stat swapping would not render Legendary items obsolete.

The shininess and the stat difference should be enough to keep them interesting.

I think, if you actually read through this thread, there are multiple posts explaining how and why exotic gear is so cheap to get, that, by the time you'd run up the cost of one (1) legendary, you'd have every attribute combination for a given piece in exotics.

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Let's play this another (equally obnoxious) way then.

 

So I earn a fair chunk of cash in the real world doing  real work. This means I haven't really got time to waste working in a game, so I'm prepared to pay real money to buy Legendaries. Let me buy my way through the legendary armory with real money.

 

Surely that has more value to ANet than some nerds with more free time than money who take up server resources 24/7.

 

I can't see anything wrong with that. After all, it's already been established by the people who are against giving the ability to swap stats to all that it's not like this would give me any more in-game power than any other player, so it's not pay-to-win.

 

Or are you saying that fantasy work in a game world has more value than actual work in the real world?

I wouldn't call it fantasy work all because it's an actual person doing the work. In that sense it's real work or shall we say effort.

 

Now an MMO is about giving enough to do to people and what you propose would take a lot of time spent away, working towards a goal. Not everybody needs that but a lot of people are goal oriented. And this game doesn't have level cap raises and new tiers of gear every expansion so this is the solution to meet that need. Some people here argue that cosmetics are enough, but people who say that are not the ones getting them.

 

Now if you want to throw real money at it, then you can start by buying all Gen 1 legy's. That should run you around 3.5K in dollars or euros. Then of course you can continue to buy off most of the rest to mitigate most of the grind. So at least you can already buy a lot off what you need in game to get the trinkets and armor sets. It's not everything of course. It'll leave you with a good amount to do still but a LOT less than if you'd have to grind all those mats.

 

You will of course have to have over 5K in real money to buy all that off. Now the cool thing is that this game has real money linked into the economy via the gem / gold exchange and that's why you can put a real amount of money on that effort. You'll have to make around 150 dollars/euros to buy one legendary item cause that's what the effort is worth to put it in...so fantasy work? I don't think so, it's real people putting the effort and there is a real money value for those efforts.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Gehenna.3625

[Mungrul.9358]

22 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

...and there is a real money value for those efforts.

Hah, keep telling yourself that. At the end of the day, ANet don't make money off you grinding away. In fact, they lose it, because you're taking up compute cycles without paying them for the use.

If they let me buy Legendaries, that'd be actual, y'know, real world money that they could use to pay their staff and buy new equipment.

 

Yeah, I'm really beginning to like this idea!

I've got the money, and it's obvious these mooks grinding away for half a year to get it for "free" don't have it.

G'wan ANet, let me buy Legendaries and give you actual cash rather than increased bills for no return!

I'm obviously better than them, because someone's paying me in cold hard moolah rather than fool's gold.

I deserve it.

They don't.

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Let's play this another (equally obnoxious) way then.

 

So I earn a fair chunk of cash in the real world doing  real work. This means I haven't really got time to waste working in a game, so I'm prepared to pay real money to buy Legendaries. Let me buy my way through the legendary armory with real money.

 

Surely that has more value to ANet than some nerds with more free time than money who take up server resources 24/7.

 

I can't see anything wrong with that. After all, it's already been established by the people who are against giving the ability to swap stats to all that it's not like this would give me any more in-game power than any other player, so it's not pay-to-win.

 

Or are you saying that fantasy work in a game world has more value than actual work in the real world?

Use cash buy gems turn it into gold and buy your raid clears for armor/ring then.

Buy fractals for backpack.

Weapons you can just buy of the tp for gold.

Only problem is second ring, necklace and 2 accessories.

 

 

[Doggie.3184]

On 8/18/2021 at 6:26 AM, sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

This has never been a feature for exotics.  This is specifically the only benefit of legendaries over ascended quality items as an intended purposeful design.  Exotics are so incredibly cheap as is and there is no reason to create endlessly stat selectable exotic items. 

 

I mean there are exotics that remain account bound forever and let you select stats, although it doesn't let you change stats. I have some sets I save for advanced keyfarming. I don't think an armory will ever happen though and current one sucks for weapons.

[LSD.4673]

10 hours ago, mtpelion.4562 said:

Just a reminder that crafting/selling/buying exotics and materials for ascended is one of the main ways the game sinks gold and thus maintains a healthy in game economy.

 

Making an Exotic Armory would require new, powerful gold sinks that everyone is going to hate and which will easily outweigh any QoL gained from stat-selectable Exotics (Say hello to 5g Waypoint Fees or 20g repair costs). 

The problem with that is that the horse hasn't just bolted, but was given a helping hand in its escape.

LW farm maps (like Istan, which for 18 months could be farmed relentlessly), and the total disregard for bots and AFKs is antithetical to maintaining a "healthy" economy.

[ArchonWing.9480]

4 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Let's play this another (equally obnoxious) way then.

 

So I earn a fair chunk of cash in the real world doing  real work. This means I haven't really got time to waste working in a game, so I'm prepared to pay real money to buy Legendaries. Let me buy my way through the legendary armory with real money.

 

 

 

Sure, why not? Start shelling out the cash now. We need another expansion.

Edited August 19, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Hah, keep telling yourself that. At the end of the day, ANet don't make money off you grinding away. In fact, they lose it, because you're taking up compute cycles without paying them for the use.

If they let me buy Legendaries, that'd be actual, y'know, real world money that they could use to pay their staff and buy new equipment.

 

Yeah, I'm really beginning to like this idea!

I've got the money, and it's obvious these mooks grinding away for half a year to get it for "free" don't have it.

G'wan ANet, let me buy Legendaries and give you actual cash rather than increased bills for no return!

I'm obviously better than them, because someone's paying me in cold hard moolah rather than fool's gold.

I deserve it.

They don't.

What?  No.  The entire time you're playing, you're likely going to
1) Convert gold to gems (This causes the price of gems to go up which in turn makes it attractive to buy and sell gems. Also, it's a fact that practically all gems are paid for)
2) Convert Gems to Gold
3) buy something from the trading post someone else got with real money (BL skins & dyes)

The longer someone is engaged with the game, the more likely they are going to spend money on the game, and trust me, one person spending $10 is enough to cover playtime for more than a day.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

The problem with that is that the horse hasn't just bolted, but was given a helping hand in its escape.

LW farm maps (like Istan, which for 18 months could be farmed relentlessly), and the total disregard for bots and AFKs is antithetical to maintaining a "healthy" economy.

So it's already bad and they (ANet) Should just double down and make it worse?  What?