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Will 3rd Expansion happen at all?

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  • Susy.7529Susy.7529 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2019

    If they don't do a Cantha expansion it'll be the worst loss ever, both for us to enjoy it and for Anet to receive $$, darn it would have so much potential.

  • I would say sooner than later, NCSOFT will push them to do so.

  • I was hoping for at least 5 expac in the gw2 life cycle. One that defines each race. Zaithan/human, mordremoth/sylavari, kralkatorric/charr?, jormag/norn and primordus/asura. As far as bubble go idk what to do with that one

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We had no guarantee that there was going to be a third expansion at the beginning of the year. We still don't after last weeks news. So we are in the same spot we were in before this and yet we play on. So why stop now?

    And yes, I think there still will be, and still think we will have information on it mid/late next living world season. But that justs something I believe in based on the fact that they still have a reasonable player base and the fact that businesses are in the business of making money and as we have seen from their financial documents expansions bring in funding. Good gaming!

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  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    I was hoping for at least 5 expac in the gw2 life cycle. One that defines each race. Zaithan/human, mordremoth/sylavari, kralkatorric/charr?, jormag/norn and primordus/asura. As far as bubble go idk what to do with that one

    maybe Sbubbles/Largos or Sbubbles/Quaggans -> those things are everywhere around tyria.

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  • @hugo.4705 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    I was hoping for at least 5 expac in the gw2 life cycle. One that defines each race. Zaithan/human, mordremoth/sylavari, kralkatorric/charr?, jormag/norn and primordus/asura. As far as bubble go idk what to do with that one

    maybe Sbubbles/Largos or Sbubbles/Quaggans -> those things are everywhere around tyria.

    Yeah i was thinking the same but feel if they do that both should be playable races.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arzurag.7506 said:
    What if we get GW3 instead ? Would be kinda funny when they release a trailer that is the announcement for GW3 in disguise.^^

    Hmmm just fired 100 devs because they worked on other non published projects beside gw2 let’s start another non published project besides gw2 .... smart move I’m sure they will do that

  • I just hope that Anet will communicate better with us now and inform us if there is an expansion in the works. We need Cantha! Hopefully we’ll get some updates on the future of the game in the next few weeks, even if it’s not about an expansion. We just at least need to hear about something, anything!

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    Guild Wars 2 is Arenanet's only game (except GW1 which is in maintenance mode). Which means they can't simply drop it and focus on other games like a big studio can. Of course they could make a new game, or a few new games, but they'd have to start over completely from scratch and they'd lose a lot of customer faith and good will in the process - they'd be risking the future of the entire studio and everyone's jobs. That's not something you do because the rumour mill says other subgenres are now more profitable.

    I personally believe they'll be producing GW2 expansions for a very long time but what you say they couldn't do is pretty much exactly what they did for GW2: they dropped development of GW1 in 2007 and focused on developing GW2 for the next 5 years.

    That's a bit different though. I'm talking about traditional studios where they have different teams working on different games all at the same time.

    For example if the new Wolfenstein game didn't do as well as expected Bethesda could choose to delay making a sequel and/or make less DLC for it and focus on the next Elder Scrolls game instead, because they already have that franchise established and are almost certainly already working on the next game. Anet can't do that because they don't have any other games to focus on. They'd have to design, build market and release a brand new one completely from scratch, which is much more expensive and more of a risk because there isn't an existing fanbase for the finished product.

    As I said they could do it, but I don't think they would want to without a very good reason.

    I would like to think there was already something in the pipeline for an expansion later next year, but in light of recent events maybe that plan has gone awry, so who knows.. lets hope its a yes because GW2 will need something if ANET wants to ensure a decent enough ongoing return from the game.
    TBH I wouldn't be surprised if that is what some of the cancelled projects were about.. it makes perfect sense for a Studio with one mainstay live product that has likely reached it's peak considering its age. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear ANET and NC Soft had planned these kind projects some time ago, but maybe economic changes caught up with them and decisions made. Who knows maybe there was a new GW related offering already on the horizon until late, as you say it would bring benefits both in the development cost and the likely interest leading up to a release and beyond again.... Time will tell.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • honestly i doubt they'll do one at this point. I'm so over arena net and their mismanagement and delays.

  • Zania.8461Zania.8461 Member ✭✭✭

    Anything said in this thread will obviously be a guesswork. However I think that now expansion is a lot more likely. NCSoft is interested in revenue, which is a lot higher from expansions vs living world. If anything the fact that ANet did not plan on releasing 3rd expansion for GW2 in 2019 is what could have partly contributed to the layoffs.

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:

    @Arzurag.7506 said:
    What if we get GW3 instead ? Would be kinda funny when they release a trailer that is the announcement for GW3 in disguise.^^

    Hmmm just fired 100 devs because they worked on other non published projects beside gw2 let’s start another non published project besides gw2 .... smart move I’m sure they will do that

    Well, no reason to be sarcastic tho and besides, I didn´t have any knowledge about the lay-offs, when I made that comment.

    "I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    not gonna buy if revs 3. new elite is a PVE TRASH LEGEND LIKE KALLA...

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    Guild Wars 2 is Arenanet's only game (except GW1 which is in maintenance mode). Which means they can't simply drop it and focus on other games like a big studio can. Of course they could make a new game, or a few new games, but they'd have to start over completely from scratch and they'd lose a lot of customer faith and good will in the process - they'd be risking the future of the entire studio and everyone's jobs. That's not something you do because the rumour mill says other subgenres are now more profitable.

    I personally believe they'll be producing GW2 expansions for a very long time but what you say they couldn't do is pretty much exactly what they did for GW2: they dropped development of GW1 in 2007 and focused on developing GW2 for the next 5 years.

    That's a bit different though. I'm talking about traditional studios where they have different teams working on different games all at the same time.

    For example if the new Wolfenstein game didn't do as well as expected Bethesda could choose to delay making a sequel and/or make less DLC for it and focus on the next Elder Scrolls game instead, because they already have that franchise established and are almost certainly already working on the next game. Anet can't do that because they don't have any other games to focus on. They'd have to design, build market and release a brand new one completely from scratch, which is much more expensive and more of a risk because there isn't an existing fanbase for the finished product.

    As I said they could do it, but I don't think they would want to without a very good reason.

    I would like to think there was already something in the pipeline for an expansion later next year, but in light of recent events maybe that plan has gone awry, so who knows.. lets hope its a yes because GW2 will need something if ANET wants to ensure a decent enough ongoing return from the game.
    TBH I wouldn't be surprised if that is what some of the cancelled projects were about.. it makes perfect sense for a Studio with one mainstay live product that has likely reached it's peak considering its age. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear ANET and NC Soft had planned these kind projects some time ago, but maybe economic changes caught up with them and decisions made. Who knows maybe there was a new GW related offering already on the horizon until late, as you say it would bring benefits both in the development cost and the likely interest leading up to a release and beyond again.... Time will tell.

    Or best case, that expansion was changed from being an all at once expansion to an expansion divided up among multiple living story episodes. Without knowing the features they planned to implement next season that’s a pretty wild theory though. Though if it were the case, maybe they viewed that as a way of creating a more steady revenue model and a way to increase profits from living story without having to rely on expansion sales spikes. This potentially given them a more reliable revenue to devote to content faster. Though the emphasis on these other projects implies otherwise and that they really just wanted to milk our guild wars 2 in favor of these other projects.

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Apparently the 100 layoffs are actually 143 layoffs. Source: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/technology/bellevue-game-studio-arenanet-developer-of-guild-wars-lays-off-143/

    So it's not a quarter but over a third of the staff that got laid off.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Chay.7852Chay.7852 Member ✭✭✭

    IMO GW2 needs an expansion now (or at least the confirmation that its gonna get one after the LS5) more than ever.

    Also i don't know about you guys but imo its not necessary to bring some special feature like the mounts or gliding (those were really cool though) - id be happy to get few maps with content on them, a nice story (maybe Malyck and the other Tree?) and maybe a few Dungeons? (NO, not raids and NO, not 2 more fractals or so) - dungeons. And the Elite specializations ofc ... Although i would love to go to Cantha, but im okay with another part of Tyria.
    And what i would also love to see, would be some love for PVP and WvW - Something like Hero's Ascent for PvP? - im not a pvp-er in gw2 but i loved HA in gw1 ^^
    A 3rd map for WvW - with new mechanics and stuff... so we have 3 different borderlands.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2019

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    Guild Wars 2 is Arenanet's only game (except GW1 which is in maintenance mode). Which means they can't simply drop it and focus on other games like a big studio can. Of course they could make a new game, or a few new games, but they'd have to start over completely from scratch and they'd lose a lot of customer faith and good will in the process - they'd be risking the future of the entire studio and everyone's jobs. That's not something you do because the rumour mill says other subgenres are now more profitable.

    I personally believe they'll be producing GW2 expansions for a very long time but what you say they couldn't do is pretty much exactly what they did for GW2: they dropped development of GW1 in 2007 and focused on developing GW2 for the next 5 years.

    That's a bit different though. I'm talking about traditional studios where they have different teams working on different games all at the same time.

    For example if the new Wolfenstein game didn't do as well as expected Bethesda could choose to delay making a sequel and/or make less DLC for it and focus on the next Elder Scrolls game instead, because they already have that franchise established and are almost certainly already working on the next game. Anet can't do that because they don't have any other games to focus on. They'd have to design, build market and release a brand new one completely from scratch, which is much more expensive and more of a risk because there isn't an existing fanbase for the finished product.

    As I said they could do it, but I don't think they would want to without a very good reason.

    I would like to think there was already something in the pipeline for an expansion later next year, but in light of recent events maybe that plan has gone awry, so who knows.. lets hope its a yes because GW2 will need something if ANET wants to ensure a decent enough ongoing return from the game.
    TBH I wouldn't be surprised if that is what some of the cancelled projects were about.. it makes perfect sense for a Studio with one mainstay live product that has likely reached it's peak considering its age. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear ANET and NC Soft had planned these kind projects some time ago, but maybe economic changes caught up with them and decisions made. Who knows maybe there was a new GW related offering already on the horizon until late, as you say it would bring benefits both in the development cost and the likely interest leading up to a release and beyond again.... Time will tell.

    Or best case, that expansion was changed from being an all at once expansion to an expansion divided up among multiple living story episodes. Without knowing the features they planned to implement next season that’s a pretty wild theory though. Though if it were the case, maybe they viewed that as a way of creating a more steady revenue model and a way to increase profits from living story without having to rely on expansion sales spikes. This potentially given them a more reliable revenue to devote to content faster. Though the emphasis on these other projects implies otherwise and that they really just wanted to milk our guild wars 2 in favor of these other projects.

    Our Guild Wars2.. hmmm
    Milking us.. seems a little strong. I will agree there seems to of been a notable increase in the steer to monetise and slow progression, to me at least, and I have not been shy in voicing that thought this past 6+ months. Then again knowing what we do now with regards to the cancellation of unannounced projects, I can maybe understand why that would be necessary and perfectly plausible for any business.. we tend to forget this is a business not just a charitable organisation happy to fund our enjoyment on a dime.
    The notion ANET somehow favoured new projects over old products also seems a little over the top , especially in light of the recent post by Mathew Medina. ANET would not simply throw caution to the wind and push their only revenue source to the side. At some point the business and I mean the business as a whole not just ANET would of identified the need to explore other options in order to ensure a viable revenue into the business for the future while their flagship product was still performing and profitable. That to me is a positive move by management and keeping R & D costs down by utilising skills and experience already embedded within ANET is a prudent decision imo.
    The idea that reassignment of internal resource somehow cased neglect of their flagship product to me sounds way off.. it maybe shows the faith ANET has in its teams as a whole that they felt comfortable in passing those responsibilities on to others.. and the fact that GW2 is still performing, still profitable and still being enjoyed by a wide range of players across the globe maybe says ANET were/are correct .
    The layoffs are a hard pill for sure, and change is inevitable, but for some players to come pointing fingers saying GW2 has been neglected and the grim reaper is wafting through the building just disrespects the incredible talent still employed who have been / will be tasked with picking up the flag and pushing onwards.

    I for one hold out to hoping we are all going to be singing their praises this time next year.. that is unless SAB Trib mode and Clocktower force me to break another keyboard and mouse!! - Yes Josh, you have a lot to answer for :)

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    Guild Wars 2 is Arenanet's only game (except GW1 which is in maintenance mode). Which means they can't simply drop it and focus on other games like a big studio can. Of course they could make a new game, or a few new games, but they'd have to start over completely from scratch and they'd lose a lot of customer faith and good will in the process - they'd be risking the future of the entire studio and everyone's jobs. That's not something you do because the rumour mill says other subgenres are now more profitable.

    I personally believe they'll be producing GW2 expansions for a very long time but what you say they couldn't do is pretty much exactly what they did for GW2: they dropped development of GW1 in 2007 and focused on developing GW2 for the next 5 years.

    That's a bit different though. I'm talking about traditional studios where they have different teams working on different games all at the same time.

    For example if the new Wolfenstein game didn't do as well as expected Bethesda could choose to delay making a sequel and/or make less DLC for it and focus on the next Elder Scrolls game instead, because they already have that franchise established and are almost certainly already working on the next game. Anet can't do that because they don't have any other games to focus on. They'd have to design, build market and release a brand new one completely from scratch, which is much more expensive and more of a risk because there isn't an existing fanbase for the finished product.

    As I said they could do it, but I don't think they would want to without a very good reason.

    I would like to think there was already something in the pipeline for an expansion later next year, but in light of recent events maybe that plan has gone awry, so who knows.. lets hope its a yes because GW2 will need something if ANET wants to ensure a decent enough ongoing return from the game.
    TBH I wouldn't be surprised if that is what some of the cancelled projects were about.. it makes perfect sense for a Studio with one mainstay live product that has likely reached it's peak considering its age. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear ANET and NC Soft had planned these kind projects some time ago, but maybe economic changes caught up with them and decisions made. Who knows maybe there was a new GW related offering already on the horizon until late, as you say it would bring benefits both in the development cost and the likely interest leading up to a release and beyond again.... Time will tell.

    Bear in mind that was written just over a year ago (this topic was bumped up about 1/2 way down the first page), we know a lot more about the situation now than we did then. It seems Anet were working on something other than the GW2 releases we've been told about, but we might never find out what that was, whether it was a GW2 expansion or another Guild Wars game or something else entirely. But it also sounds like none of that is going to be finished or released, at least not for a long time.

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  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    Guild Wars 2 is Arenanet's only game (except GW1 which is in maintenance mode). Which means they can't simply drop it and focus on other games like a big studio can. Of course they could make a new game, or a few new games, but they'd have to start over completely from scratch and they'd lose a lot of customer faith and good will in the process - they'd be risking the future of the entire studio and everyone's jobs. That's not something you do because the rumour mill says other subgenres are now more profitable.

    I personally believe they'll be producing GW2 expansions for a very long time but what you say they couldn't do is pretty much exactly what they did for GW2: they dropped development of GW1 in 2007 and focused on developing GW2 for the next 5 years.

    That's a bit different though. I'm talking about traditional studios where they have different teams working on different games all at the same time.

    For example if the new Wolfenstein game didn't do as well as expected Bethesda could choose to delay making a sequel and/or make less DLC for it and focus on the next Elder Scrolls game instead, because they already have that franchise established and are almost certainly already working on the next game. Anet can't do that because they don't have any other games to focus on. They'd have to design, build market and release a brand new one completely from scratch, which is much more expensive and more of a risk because there isn't an existing fanbase for the finished product.

    As I said they could do it, but I don't think they would want to without a very good reason.

    I would like to think there was already something in the pipeline for an expansion later next year, but in light of recent events maybe that plan has gone awry, so who knows.. lets hope its a yes because GW2 will need something if ANET wants to ensure a decent enough ongoing return from the game.
    TBH I wouldn't be surprised if that is what some of the cancelled projects were about.. it makes perfect sense for a Studio with one mainstay live product that has likely reached it's peak considering its age. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear ANET and NC Soft had planned these kind projects some time ago, but maybe economic changes caught up with them and decisions made. Who knows maybe there was a new GW related offering already on the horizon until late, as you say it would bring benefits both in the development cost and the likely interest leading up to a release and beyond again.... Time will tell.

    Bear in mind that was written just over a year ago (this topic was bumped up about 1/2 way down the first page), we know a lot more about the situation now than we did then. It seems Anet were working on something other than the GW2 releases we've been told about, but we might never find out what that was, whether it was a GW2 expansion or another Guild Wars game or something else entirely. But it also sounds like none of that is going to be finished or released, at least not for a long time.

    Oh absolutely.. but perhaps things were learned from those cancelled projects.. which we won't get to know about, at least not in their original format maybe.... that is the beauty of R&D.
    As to whether a 3rd Expac was/is in the pipeline I guess we will find at some time in the future (not to far in the future I hope), but I agree with something @Astralporing.1957 said above and reading Mike Z's post - there seems to be a notable absence of anything even perhaps to hint of one being planned, which doesn't sit well we me if I am honest because if there isn't anything planned as yet or its been shelved then it does beg the question what's next longer term after LS5.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Wondering if releasing the expac3 in late 2020 is still can save the game.
    I mean, Business nowadays is changing very fast. People have a lot more choices and get bored very easily.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭

    @yefluke.3168 said:
    Wondering if releasing the expac3 in late 2020 is still can save the game.
    I mean, Business nowadays is changing very fast. People have a lot more choices and get bored very easily.

    I don't think the game is in much risk of not being "saved", assuming NCSoft doesn't knee-jerk shut the whole thing down.

    Being realistic, the MMO industry as we know it is changing drastically. MMOs like GW2 are out going out of style, which means the ones we have now are probably some of the last we'll see for a while. New MMOs are taking the form of action oriented microtransaction based games from Korea like Black Desert, fps/third person games like Anthem or Destiny, or more console friendly versions like Sea of Thieves. There hasn't been a successful GW2/Final Fantasy XIV/World of Warcraft in a number of years, and I don't think there are many in the works at the moment. There are a few, but their hype trains are much smaller these days than in days past.

    This means there won't be a lot of choices, truth be told. GW2 is one of the last games of its kind we'll get to play, and when it's gone it will be gone. A lot of folks will continue to come back for that reason alone, not including the fans who honestly enjoy the game and just want to keep playing.

    As long as there are still some people who older style MMOs, this game will keep trucking. It's only when that interest dies out that we'll probably start to need to worry about GW2.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If Season 5 does well with released content not tied to expansions, it just means more time and seasons in between expansions making future expacs meatier and bigger. Yes we are getting a 3rd. As well as a 4th if sales go great for features released with seasons and the 3rd expac.

  • trev.1045trev.1045 Member ✭✭✭

    I have seen a few people say the parent company wanted more expansions and that it is Arenanet that was reluctant

    I am just curious where this info came from?

    The MMO market is still huge, box sales and the publicity an expansion generates are essential if a game wants to keep or increase its share of that market however

  • Kersya.3145Kersya.3145 Member ✭✭
    edited March 3, 2019

    I really want them to make more content. This is the only mmo where they manage to make something new. Some new mechanic with each expansion to draw in more attention and players. They manage to make each one fresh. From all the mmo's iv'e played this is the only one that has my full attention with new upcoming expansions.

    Also extremely hopeful for a new class ,_, .

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Age of decline.. yeah there's probably some truth to that and I for one blame subscription fees.

    Oversaturated market and every game is demanding a constant fee in order to not only play but maintain access over your account, progression etc.
    It's a bad model.. always has been imo because it creates a market in which only a handful of games can possibly survive in.

    I'm willing to bet the same thing is going to hit Tv and consoles eventually.. need a sub for psn, xbl, swith online, netflix, amazon the list goes on and on.
    Nobody is going to sit around while their shows and games go exclusive to one sub or another and they realize.. if they want to play everything and watch everything they're going to have to pay 10 different sub fees to do it..

    That's what killed the MMO market and spawned this generation of failed mandatory sub games in which most of them are now free2play.

    Anet were absolutely right to make Guildwars a no subfee franchise.. and i for one will gladly continue supporting this game of my own free will.. be that through the gemstore or splashing out on the most expensive version of each expansion release.

  • Xar.6279Xar.6279 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2019

    People likes to tell that MMORPG genre is dying and is less and less popular, etc, etc.
    But its worth to notice few things here.

    Yes. MMO games arent that popular as MOBA or Battle Royale games for example. But does MMORPG ever in history been more popular than this kind of games? I dont think so.
    But anyway. Different question. Do MMORPG's really need to be most popular type of online games to be successful? Of course not.
    I remember first MMORPG's as Ultima Online or Helbreath. And you know what? Today's MMORPG's got much more players. And these old games were fine with their small population. People even payed for it (both games had p2p model) and everyone was happy. Noone needed more people. Maps wasnt even designed for more players.
    And tbh... What's interesting point here - playing those old, less popular MMORPG's were more fun, because after some time everyone knew each other there. Community were so strong. While when you got hundreds of thousands people online, then everyone is kind of anonymous and people dont know who's who.

    Meantime in 2004 WoW were released and this MMO bring alot of players from other games. They met in one place. What hasn't happened before.
    And today's WoW is smaller but there's GW2, FF14, TESO, and some other very popular MMORPG's. List of today's popular MMORPG's isnt small. Its alot of players.
    I dont think there was ever more MMORPG players than now. In history. I do not remember such times tbh.
    Games like LoL, Fortnite, Apex, etc etc are more popular than MMORPGs - that's the fact. I know it. But its like... Those games just bring alot of new people. Which wasnt here before. Also what it changes for MMORPG players at all? I mean population of those moba's and battle royal games? Nothing.
    I don't think people in the past in Ultima Online or Helbreath were less satisfied than current mmorpg players. I'll tell more. IMO those players were often more satisfied. Even in their low populated games.
    You know why? Because those MMORPGs maybe were smaller, but more focused on the game modes which those people really liked.
    Devs were doing good, engaging games. With good gameplay. Rather than trying to satisfy everyone.
    And that's the real problem with alot of current MMORPG's in my opinion. Its those large corporations which trys to do games for everyone. And meantime those games are for noone. Are boring etc, etc.
    Its all about quality content. And quality games. And this is what we're really missing these days. Dev's focus more on raising population, rather than quality. While we dont need more people tbh. They're doing MMORPG's for everyone. Rather than focus on specyfic game modes. And support them enough. They want more, and more and became so greedy. Like... suddenly we find out that its not worth for them to do hardcore raid content for small amount of players. Its not worth to support PvP mode for small amount of players etc, etc. While in the past it was worth. They just became too greedy. And some MMORPGs starts to be just boring. Pointless and meaningless.

    But I am pretty sure there's still few pretty good MMORPG's which devs know what to do. And they stick to their direction. They support their (end)game modes, etc, etc.
    But unfortunately I dont think Gw2 is one of those games. Gw2 is very popular but it looks like population is the main and the only thing achived by Gw2.
    Anyway I am pretty sure we will see alot of good MMORPG's in the future :)

  • wickedkae.4980wickedkae.4980 Member ✭✭✭

    I hate to be that person, but GW2 is not in good shape. An xpack is a huge en-devour and crucial to keeping MMOs alive. Anet does not have the resources nor the talen to put out another xpack. The next LS will be the last. GW2 will go into sleep mode like GW1 is in right now. IF they even waste time keeping the game alive at all after the last LS. I will quote this post in 2 years to prove my point.

  • @wickedkae.4980 said:
    I hate to be that person, but GW2 is not in good shape. An xpack is a huge en-devour and crucial to keeping MMOs alive. Anet does not have the resources nor the talen to put out another xpack. The next LS will be the last. GW2 will go into sleep mode like GW1 is in right now. IF they even waste time keeping the game alive at all after the last LS. I will quote this post in 2 years to prove my point.

    You seem to forgetting that there are upwards of 250 people working directly on GW2 now, versus 0 people working directly on GW1.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

    • Elite specs locked behind a 50 dollar paywall, thus destroying accessibility in the competitive scene unless you fork over cash
    • Core Features like mounts that affect the whole game locked behind another 50 dollar paywall

    Mike Z is 100% right that living story could deliver expansion like content and it should so that everyone can have access to all of the necessities to enjoy the game and stay competitive and that the team at arena net can just focus on designing the game on the current latest features catalog, thus making decision making easier. If another expansion does get released, they now have to worry about the chance that people who play the expansion won't have path of fire or heart of thorns, thus now having to account for people who have mounts and people who don't when designing worlds which means more time spent on having to weigh those into consideration, thus more time wasted.

    Expansion packs add another paywall that makes it just as annoying as the gem store to enjoy the game fully and because of how their designed, makes it harder to design new content.


    The problem that we face with the living story is that the amount of content that gets released is paltry at best and many aspects of the living story were grossly mishandled(The Molten Facility and Pirate Cove could have been fully featured dungeons and then someone high on inter-dimensional mushrooms thought it was a good idea to take it away and then it was introduced as a shell of its former self), the new areas are very high quality, but there's very little in it. Many parts of the game are being neglected and not maintained due to some freak obsession with releasing a 3 hour long story that takes 4 months to make, a story in which a large portion of people won't even get to see to begin with because their time is better spent farming gold in silverwastes, converting it to gems, and getting the items because the good rewards from the update are locked behind the gemstore rather than having to actually go and play the content updates to get the new mounts packs for example.

    The living story is what I would call a good example of the Monkey's Paw trope. It brings promise of constant live updates as well as many things that could have been, but because of how its instantiated, it leaves people conflicted and wanting something else. These updates don't release with everyone in mind and so people feel left out and sometimes angry.


    If Cantha were to get released, we would all know that a good portion of that would be a sprawling city, that much is for sure. Now here's some issues with this;

    If it gets released expansion style, the city scape will now have to account for people who don't have HoT, PoF, only have one of them, and for those who have both. City areas are already very hard to design, now we have to include 4 different groups of audiences that have different ways to access content which means the design process is going to take that much longer so that no one feels inconvenienced when accessing the different amenities the expansion has to offer.

    It it gets released living story style, we now have to deal an audience who is less inclined to log in for the content largely due to the negative connotations that the living story update model now has and top of the fact that less content is available upfront impeding on the vast impressions it could have.

    I intentionally omitted expansion restrictions like not having mounts or gliders from the living story argument due to the fact that had these features been instantiated living story style, we would all have access to these features to begin with had we stuck with just having a good feature rich living story.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @wickedkae.4980 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @wickedkae.4980 said:
    I hate to be that person, but GW2 is not in good shape. An xpack is a huge en-devour and crucial to keeping MMOs alive. Anet does not have the resources nor the talen to put out another xpack. The next LS will be the last. GW2 will go into sleep mode like GW1 is in right now. IF they even waste time keeping the game alive at all after the last LS. I will quote this post in 2 years to prove my point.

    You seem to forgetting that there are upwards of 250 people working directly on GW2 now, versus 0 people working directly on GW1.

    The way Anet is going, there will also be 0 working on GW2 in short order. If living story is all we have to look forward to, then there is no longer any reason for me to spend another dollar on the game. The devs need to tell us if we are getting REAL updates (xpack, huge new lands, new classes, new end game advancement systems etc) if it wants to keep people like me paying. Anet has shown ZERO ability to introduce xpack content in a living story. Hell, they can't even add good items to the gem store anymore that are worth purchasing. If anet is indeed only going to be putting out the LS stuff, then the game is done. I would like to know so I no longer waste time/money on a dead game. Your time may be cheap, but mine is not.

    Okay. Have fun. We'll be here when you get back.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • Tiviana.2650Tiviana.2650 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2019

    For me i look forward to expansions in games. I hope they have one in the works, but im not in a hurry because im a newer player so i still have a lot to do. But with that being said, i realize there are players that have pretty much beat the game, and for them an expansion would be what keeps them playing.

  • Not if they keep laying off half the staff

    I wish they'd nerf me.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ElectricGoat.8253 said:
    Not if they keep laying off half the staff

    No need to feed the FUD with inaccuracies. It wasn't half of the staff.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Chilli.2976Chilli.2976 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No plans for the near future, but it doesn't mean it won't happen.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2019

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Hmmm just fired 100 devs [...]

    It was 146 devs, if not more. And some of them did work on GW2.

    Anyway, I really hope for an announcement soon that they will start working on the next expansion. Otherwise, I will definitely play this game less, which includes spending less or no money at the Gem Store, and possibly quit if LWS5 disappoints as much as the last episode did and/or continues to bore the audience with elder dragons and there is no expac on the horizon.

  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't know, check out all the other speculation threads on the same subject.

  • @Ashantara.8731 said:
    It was 146 devs, if not more. And some of them did work on GW2.

    143 according to the Washington state database tracking layoffs of this size.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • yefluke.3168yefluke.3168 Member ✭✭
    edited March 5, 2019

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Hmmm just fired 100 devs [...]

    It was 146 devs, if not more. And some of them did work on GW2.

    Anyway, I really hope for an announcement soon that they will start working on the next expansion. Otherwise, I will definitely play this game less, which includes spending less or no money at the Gem Store, and possibly quit if LWS5 disappoints as much as the last episode did and/or continues to bore the audience with elder dragons and there is no expac on the horizon.

    Yeah, at least announce about it a little bit.
    Do they talk about new expansion at all????? no? may be E3? (probably talking about LS5)

    I am playing the game less now because of the laid off incident and tired of delaying LS episode / a little replayablilty of the new maps / unsure future of the game.

    well... any answer Anet? will there be new expansion pack?
    i bet they can't answer at all because they are also still unsure about the game future.
    Am i right Anet? Mike O'Brien?

  • Belenwyn.8674Belenwyn.8674 Member ✭✭
    edited March 5, 2019

    You overestimate the Power of an expansion for such an aged game. We know from NCsoft that the gem Sales are the main source for revenue. Even in release quarters gem Sales generated 66-75% of total Sales (confirmed for HOT). I assume PoF Had similar results. The effort of producing an expansion IS to High compassion with ROI.

    What do we know about LW5? According to interviews it starts right after LW4. They pla Julin a two months cadence for the epidsodes. Along with LW5 we should see content formerly reserved for expansions. Hopefully NCsoft Tool Actionscript that Arenanet keep this premises. Expansion-exclusive so far are Elite specs and impactful mastery paths. LW 5 should ship both for money. This would make an expansion obsolet for at least 18 to 24 months.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2019

    @Belenwyn.8674 said:
    You overestimate the Power of an expansion for such an aged game.

    I don't think that it's about the "financial power", at least not for me. It is about the fun factor. Expansions make for a better playing experience than episodic releases.

  • Gehenna.3625Gehenna.3625 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @IllegalChocolate.6938 said:
    Mike Z is 100% right that living story could deliver expansion like content and it should so that everyone can have access to all of the necessities to enjoy the game and stay competitive and that the team at arena net can just focus on designing the game on the current latest features catalog, thus making decision making easier.

    The big problem is the word "could". Their first attempt at releasing content via LS that normally would be an expansion feature is the Sunspear Refuge which is a complete failure in my view. It doesn't really add anything to the game and does come with it's annoyances particularly with regards to traveling there as it's a separate instance. It adds no real benefits and does have downsides in essence. That doesn't bode well for what their definition of expansion-like content is. And so far the current LS chapters don't really add much to the game.

    Expansion packs add another paywall that makes it just as annoying as the gem store to enjoy the game fully and because of how their designed, makes it harder to design new content.

    I have to disagree with the term paywall for expansions. I think it's the most fair way for a game developer to make more money as they release a lot of new content to the game. I understand that not everybody has a lot of money but one expansions every two years is not a wall. If you cannot afford to buy a 30 dollar expansion every two years then you are not really a contributing customer anymore. It's not that I don't empathize with people who have very little money to spend but they can't expect to get the same as someone who does pay for it and it needs to be paid for because ArenaNet also has salaries to pay to their people.

    I suppose you like the idea that other players pay your way but I think it's fair that people pay their own way and you just can't expect an MMO to run month after month on a one time buying price which already gave a lot of content. So please stop acting like it's a paywall. Of all the transactions we have to put money into the game, that is the most decent and ethical one. This game doesn't charge a sub if you need to be reminded of that and it's clear that the combination of box sales and gem purchases is what keeps this game going. I think it's a complete misrepresentation to make it sound like paid expansions are some evil or unfair scheme. People who are not willing to pay for an expansion every couple of years for a game without a sub and regular in between content updates should be ashamed of themselves. And if you really can't afford it, I feel for you, but to expect everything for free is not a realistic view or remotely fair to the people who make the game. Honestly, if you can afford internet and a computer then 30 bucks every two years should be possible somehow too and if not then that's just how it is. It doesn't give people the right to complain about having to pay for something especially when it's actually a reasonable price.

    "In my experience, if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. The details are everything." ~ Minister Durano

  • Einlanzer.1627Einlanzer.1627 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @The one to Rule.2593 said:
    honestly i doubt they'll do one at this point. I'm so over arena net and their mismanagement and delays.

    Yeah, it's unbelievable, but this is kind of where I am too.

    It should be the most obvious thing in the universe that expansions are the best way to generate hype and bump interest in the game as well as being a direct source of revenue. You'd think that even the most half-competent leader in existence would recognize this and make them a priority.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Hmmm just fired 100 devs [...]

    It was 146 devs, if not more.

    Probably more, because that number considers only employees, and ignores contractors like Lena Raine, that had their contracts cancelled.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Gehenna.3625 said:

    @IllegalChocolate.6938 said:
    Mike Z is 100% right that living story could deliver expansion like content and it should so that everyone can have access to all of the necessities to enjoy the game and stay competitive and that the team at arena net can just focus on designing the game on the current latest features catalog, thus making decision making easier.

    The big problem is the word "could". Their first attempt at releasing content via LS that normally would be an expansion feature is the Sunspear Refuge which is a complete failure in my view. It doesn't really add anything to the game and does come with it's annoyances particularly with regards to traveling there as it's a separate instance. It adds no real benefits and does have downsides in essence. That doesn't bode well for what their definition of expansion-like content is. And so far the current LS chapters don't really add much to the game.

    Expansion packs add another paywall that makes it just as annoying as the gem store to enjoy the game fully and because of how their designed, makes it harder to design new content.

    I have to disagree with the term paywall for expansions. I think it's the most fair way for a game developer to make more money as they release a lot of new content to the game. I understand that not everybody has a lot of money but one expansions every two years is not a wall. If you cannot afford to buy a 30 dollar expansion every two years then you are not really a contributing customer anymore. It's not that I don't empathize with people who have very little money to spend but they can't expect to get the same as someone who does pay for it and it needs to be paid for because ArenaNet also has salaries to pay to their people.

    I suppose you like the idea that other players pay your way but I think it's fair that people pay their own way and you just can't expect an MMO to run month after month on a one time buying price which already gave a lot of content. So please stop acting like it's a paywall. Of all the transactions we have to put money into the game, that is the most decent and ethical one. This game doesn't charge a sub if you need to be reminded of that and it's clear that the combination of box sales and gem purchases is what keeps this game going. I think it's a complete misrepresentation to make it sound like paid expansions are some evil or unfair scheme. People who are not willing to pay for an expansion every couple of years for a game without a sub and regular in between content updates should be ashamed of themselves. And if you really can't afford it, I feel for you, but to expect everything for free is not a realistic view or remotely fair to the people who make the game. Honestly, if you can afford internet and a computer then 30 bucks every two years should be possible somehow too and if not then that's just how it is. It doesn't give people the right to complain about having to pay for something especially when it's actually a reasonable price.

    For the record, I've probably spent more money on this game to pay the way of a lot of people including yours.

    We don't see it as a paywall because it gets released gradually for us, someone new to the game? he's got a larger upfront cost to deal with especially if we happen to potentially be 6 expansions down the road. That's 180 dollars right there or 480 if you get the deluxe edition every time like me, let's not forget the additional living story cost of each episode since they weren't there when these got released. You can always recommend that this person gets PoF if he can only afford 1 of them for sick mounts, sure, but what happens when he only plays mesmer and people ask him to do chrono? then what? what if the guild wants to do Vale Guardian? fork up more or get frustrated and leave. Not the ultimatum that you want to give people. The trick here is to get them to fork over money while on the constant high of enjoyment and to avoid putting people in those positions to begin with so each and every second is enjoyable in the game and to get people to pay without question, that my friend is called the special sauce of an MMO.

    The next expansion will now have to account for design features introduced in HoT and PoF, that's 4 different audiences that must be catered to. Those who have neither, who have only HoT, who have only PoF, and those who have both the easiest to cater to. Assuming that its Cantha, which means its going to be a cityscape, it becomes that much more challenging since cityscapes are generally harder to design. You would want to provide value for getting the previous expansions, so having advantages for having things like mounts will be considered especially since people spent hundreds of dollars on mount skins already, but you can't have it to an extent that people are going to feel too left out if they don't have PoF, which means the experience will be negative, the consumer will then associate getting the good stuff with another credit card payment, and with today's gaming culture climate, that is a big no no right now especially when you have people like Jim S who will blow it out of proportion on his youtube channel.

    Now if we have 6 expansions, you now multiply this problem by that many expansions and how each expansion is going to affect each other by its game defining features. This could be solved of course by making game defining features baseline. Mounts for example are the best mounts in MMO gaming, why is it locked so far away into PoF? Get people on it early and people won't go back to other MMOs because our mounts are just that good, I've spent more real money on mounts than I have on the PoF deluxe edition, why even lock them out to that extent?

    This is the problem we are foreseeing as we continue down this road and why they want to push for Living Story so badly.

    We need a larger pool of clientele and your attitude of shaming someone because they aren't willing to buy an expansion is a deterrence, shaming someone for not willing to buy something doesn't work, didn't work for Studio Wildcard, didn't work for 4A Games, won't work for Captain Marvel either, sorry.

    New players need a nice clean straight forward avenue to the good stuff to get them hooked with as little inconvenience as possible, the moment anything happens, you risk losing another potential sales target.

    The living story can do this but they are just not doing the best job of doing it, which is why I called it the Monkey's Paw Trope. Is it because they pulled their best people do work on two failed mobile projects? probably. One thing is for sure, we haven't been getting Anet's best for a while as it was just revealed, now we will.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Hmmm just fired 100 devs [...]

    It was 146 devs, if not more.

    Probably more, because that number considers only employees, and ignores contractors like Lena Raine, that had their contracts cancelled.

    Again, according to the State of Washington, the official number of employees that were laid off was exactly 143. That's the objective number we can use to compare against the number of employees we can estimate they had last month (upwards of 400 from various accounts).

    If you want to consider individuals with a cancelled business contract, then we'd also have to consider all such individuals before & after, and not simply add them to the total from before. It's entirely possible that ANet is paying some of the laid off people as contractors, to help with the transition. (Not that uncommon, even when the reason for the layoffs was to shred 30-50% of the budget quickly, as it was here.) Otherwise, we're comparing Apples to Red Apples.

    It's entirely possible that other employees also left for other reasons (for cause, decided to use the opportunity to move, etc). Except again, we have an actual, official number submitted to comply with legal requirements. And that number is exactly 143.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • None of us know kitten about what happens behind the curtain right now; those pointless discussions full of experts in leadership, management and market forecasting make me sick. It's common sense to realize they are aware of all accusations towards their work and feel the pressure to produce more content than ever before to ensure this IP won't go downhill in near future.

    My bet is they minimize announcing anything just to drop a bombshell when the time comes. We all might be wrong here,l and they might have nothing to show off, but further commenting upon layoffs and company condition does no good for noone in here, including us.

  • Haven't heard a plan of next expansion at all. I think we will have maintenance mode game after LS5 next year.

    I will check back this forum again next year.