Soulbeast is not an issue. "Sic 'Em!" is. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Soulbeast is not an issue. "Sic 'Em!" is.

SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭
edited May 31, 2019 in WvW

If you don't want to read my explanations you can skip to the part below the line. I think if you're asking for Soulbeast to be nerfed however, reading it all may help to inspire some thoughts.

I think everyone can agree that Soulbeast is capable of doing a colossal amount of damage in a very short frame of time, often while having a significant range advantage. But what no one seems to agree on is what needs to be nerfed. It's always just a demand for Soulbeast in general to be nerfed.

So for the sake of discussion and education, I'd like to explain why I think ANet has allowed it to exist as it has for so long.

Support builds in WvW are equally as broken as many of the roaming and burst builds. Just because they don't do damage doesn't mean they aren't OP. Many times I've personally witnessed Firebrands literally taking up to a minute to die while 10+ players are attacking them (and for clarity, I don't mean just standing there and dancing in circles, but rather trying to escape from a group). Unless you're fully spec'd in to damage, many of the support/bunker builds like Firebrand, Scrapper, Chronomancer, etc. will be impossible to kill in a 1v1 or even Xv1.

With that said however, WvW is a team game. Although roaming is an aspect of WvW (and an important one), balance in that area is incredibly difficult to achieve. No matter what you do to roaming builds, it is likely to effect zergs as well. And historically, ANet has shown that they will allow roaming builds to exist as they are until they're strong enough to effect a larger scale. As a roamer, longbow Soulbeast is a +1 like a Thief that's most effective at adding to a fight when a player(s) has used multiple cooldowns. In zergs, it can fulfill a role as a sniper, but it is pretty clear how ineffective that is the majority of the time. It can work, but it requires a great deal of co-ordination and often multiple longbow Soulbeasts working together to bring their targets down. Therefore it does not effect the large scale.


"Sic 'Em!" increases pet damage by 40% and when merged, has the same effect on the Soulbeast. 40% is an absolutely enormous damage increase for a single button push. It is a build defining skill for longbow Soulbeasts and contributes significantly to it's burst potential. However, it does not effect core Ranger or Druid, only Soulbeast. Therefore, I believe the most appropriate way to reduce the lethality of Soulbeast without effecting Ranger or Druid, and without making Soulbeast ineffective as a specialization, is to do the following;
Reduce the percentage increase to either 10 or 15%, or do not allow "Sic 'Em!" to effect the Soulbeast while merged at all. Soulbeast, and Ranger in general, still have many damage modifiers and will still be capable snipers without this skill. It will also promote some diversity in that it will allow players who want to snipe to choose Soulbeast and players who want to play Longbow but want to 1v1 to choose core Ranger.

[JEEP] [IH] [HUNT] | Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
You've got those dangerous eyes ... ♫

<1345

Comments

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    one of the biggest problems with soulbeast is fresh reinforcement doubling might.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019

    Sic em and mauls damage modifiers need nerfs hard but ranger needs love in other areas to make it so it doesnt need reliance on ridiculously high damage modifiers and one trick burst builds to be viable pick in pvp again. Boteb above doesnt want those modifiers lowered but needs to think about how ranger will prob never see any significant buffs as long as it had things like sic em,maul and unstoppable union as a crutch.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just dodge.

    Sry I just had to say this 😂

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Sicc Em isn't a problem because it, literally isn't a problem.

    What world-shaking balance impact does Sicc Em have? Compared to like the arc divider pre-nerf (and even now). The best dueling build for SB doesn't even use Sicc Em, showing the talent is an optional inclusion, not an OP mandatory one.

    I agree with Anput on this though.
    Sic em cheese builds aren't so much a problem with warclaw now. Just like how every other invis 1-shot builds got indirectly nerfed.

    I would think they need a shave on their mobility and disengagement tools. But almost all the top tier roaming classes like Mirage and holosmiths need that. So...😐

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019

    how much more damage does a merged soulbeast get with beastmastery and an offensive pet? pretty sure its something ridiculous.

    edit
    so its:
    +350 power, +7% crit chance, +26% crit damage, and the +10% damage trait loud whistle (pretty sure the ^90% hp req is null)

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019

    There's already been a gazillion threads about this, everything has been said and I really don't think another one makes a difference.

    Is Sic 'Em an issue? Sure, it's a crutch that should probably be redesigned into something better (Opening+Opportunity+Sic combos are gimmicks).
    Are unblockables an issue? Sure, it's lazy design and they should really adress the amount of blocks instead of stacking unblockables.

    At the same time:

    Damage is a problem overall now, a pew pew Ranger comming at people does tend to kill people in ambushes and people see that easily, but there are tons of classes with just stupid burst now, chewing through even 3.5k AR as if it didn't exist. So it is an overall damage balance problem and not a Ranger or Sic 'Em problem.

    The other side of Sic 'Em being a crutch is that it's more or less the only thing the entire class has going for it by now. Everything else has been nerfed into oblivion and it has always been a class that few players want to team up with. If you take Sic 'Em away other classes will outshine the only thing Ranger does somewhat uniquely or at some sort of peak level in terms of niches.

    So there are a ton of things to do before adressing Sic 'Em or the class. Unblockables overall, damage balance overall, some sort of functional role for that class as whole. When that is done Sic 'Em will neither be an issue so it can remain, nore a problem to completely nerf out of the game. While they're at it, CC too, since almost every gimmick burst build relies on some sort of CC setup now and things would be wildly different if you had to work a bit more to setup your CC/burst attacks. The normative movement (stab) versus control balance is also completely out of whack.


    I think the mode/game as a whole would benefit greatly from an comeplete overhaul of the effects systems since there is just way too much layered over and over now. It's just a spam of everything from dmg% stacks to boons/conditions and effects. I bet if they adressed that, the server performance would also be healthier as it now has to calculate all those layers of effect/counter/effect/counter/effect/counter.

    That is another reason that the mode is so punishing towards new players now - because there are such wild performance differences in certain builds - so not only is the gap larger in experience and ability as well as the burst being so punishing to new players but the knowledge of what builds work is also a major factor because you have to build in all those overpowered cross effects so making some minor mistake in terms of traits and stats/bonuses comepletely breaks a build. If we're staying on the Ranger, then companions defense is one such example. However, it's only really useful to adress it in a complete overhaul where Anet sits down and lays out plans for what sort of abilities and effects should be scarce in terms of power/uptime balance.

    The system as a whole has become too complicated for Anet to balance, so reeling it back and formulating a plan is the way to go forward.

  • GUFF.5692GUFF.5692 Member ✭✭

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    So there are a ton of things to do before adressing Sic 'Em or the class. Unblockables overall, damage balance overall, some sort of functional role for that class as whole. When that is done Sic 'Em will neither be an issue so it can remain, nore a problem to completely nerf out of the game.

    I pretty much agree with this. It really is a common sense issue here, balance overall is way out of whack.
    That said, I would not argue against a damage reduction of Sic' Em for a soulbeast and/or duration reduction.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019

    @GUFF.5692 said:

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    So there are a ton of things to do before adressing Sic 'Em or the class. Unblockables overall, damage balance overall, some sort of functional role for that class as whole. When that is done Sic 'Em will neither be an issue so it can remain, nore a problem to completely nerf out of the game.

    I pretty much agree with this. It really is a common sense issue here, balance overall is way out of whack.
    That said, I would not argue against a damage reduction of Sic' Em for a soulbeast and/or duration reduction.

    Balance and class design is made towards help players if they are getting carried with lots of powercreep momentum’s l, means game is doing and working how Anet wanted.

    It’s a mmo for badies that failed other mmos due lack of skill mostly. They need powercreep momentum and gimmicks.
    It’s us that wanted more effort in skill combat that are wrong...

    Just go check the builds dev play...

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019

    Rework of Sic'em:

    • Vuln stacking during duration, pet inflicts 1 and you inflict 1,every attack in beastmode inflicts 2. That adds up to a 25% modifier fast but require a little setup.
    • Instead of increased movement speed your pet pulses unblockable cripple around it and if in beastmode around you in a 240 radius.
    • Increase cooldown to 40-50 seconds baseline, using this skill now also recharges your f2 pet ability.

    Another thing that would help is the addition of longbow being baseline 1200 range with only Rapid Fire being able to reach at a hard cap of 1500. Any longer and the projectiles should disappear.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 1, 2019

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    Then for those asking, thinking, or assuming the Rangers range should be reduced; how effective are they really in close? Compare them to other classes that have 1200 range attacks and their capability in close... Ranger doesn't need their range reduced; if any thing it should be a trait or something available that it increases even further.

    Basically what it comes down to; these roamers want to encounter someone like me on a glassy build and destroy me without much resistance; that's essentially what this is about. But because rangers have the capability to do that very thing to others wandering around in offensive builds, people cry nerfs.. go figure..

    How effective are rangers up close?
    Oh boy you've never met good boonbeasts have you.
    They are a lot tougher to fight against than LB/GS for many classes.
    And even then, LB/GS are also mighty dangerous up close.

    Not that I'm too much affected by them because with the mount I can now enjoy decent fights against any of their builds now. This is a massive improvement compared to before so oh well, ain't going to be too greedy 😄

  • I don't think Ranger classes need nerfs. You modify Sic 'em and Maul, you will see Rangers vanishing from Roaming pretty quick. I think they should modify Smokescale pet's skill that won't allow invis for Soulbeasts. That would save everyone. It just makes sense to have invis on Thieves and Mesmers, as they take up skill slots. Having an additional skill slot from a pet for getting invis is kinda annoying.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 1, 2019

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    While I agree with you OP; at the same time, this is WvW, and while roaming does play a part, the primary focus is on large group play and to a lesser extent small group play. Aside from harassing necros, Ranger is the 1 class that has least useful place in WvW. They don't need nerfs; nothing about them needs nerfs, not without drastically expanding their group play potential.

    If they were that big of a problem and had "that much" burst potential as people claim; we'd see a lot more commanders being pinned sniped into dirt. We'd see a lot more small group battles being overturned or 1 sided with the presence of a soulbeast; but the thing is, we don't. We don't see it because they are not a big as issue as people claim. They only seem to be a problem for people when they encounter them 1 on 1 and seem to be in a build built for similar burst potential. I had a Soulbeast dump their entire burst into me on my tanky class, and they didn't crack 8k. I had another soulbeast unload on my on my somewhat glassy rev and I died instantly. Are Soulbeasts the problem? No, it's the player's gear and expecting to survive every single onslaught of attack regardless of what class or build they face.

    Never have a I heard a commander or group later ask for someone to get on their Soulbeast (or summon a Soulbeast on the map), to join the squad to quickly take out the opposing commander, their healers, or troublesome necros. Why? Because they can't; they don't do enough damage; not compared to other classes in a group setting. A player will have far better lucky taking down "said" targets on a rev or ele. Even a condition burst will have much better luck.

    Then for those asking, thinking, or assuming the Rangers range should be reduced; how effective are they really in close? Compare them to other classes that have 1200 range attacks and their capability in close... Ranger doesn't need their range reduced; if any thing it should be a trait or something available that it increases even further.

    Basically what it comes down to; these roamers want to encounter someone like me on a glassy build and destroy me without much resistance; that's essentially what this is about. But because rangers have the capability to do that very thing to others wandering around in offensive builds, people cry nerfs.. go figure..

    Ranger is my second most played profession so for the record, the purpose of the OP wasn't to get something nerfed that I don't play/don't understand. I only made this thread because it seems like every other day there's a thread about SB being problematic and everyone jumping on the bandwagon about how it needs to be nerfed. And as someone who dislikes anything being kneecapped just because a loud minority cry until they get their way, I thought I should state a less one sided opinion on how to fix it.

    Though people have made some good points, I still believe longbow Soulbeast is overtuned as long as it is allowed to interact with "Sic 'Em!" as it currently does. And it does deserve the negative attention it has been getting because of this. Still, that doesn't mean a proper discussion on how to resolve it can't be had, unlike every other thread that has been here that has been nothing but one side of the party demanding blanket nerfs and the other half saying git gud.

    In fact I wouldn't have felt the need to make a thread about this at all if it weren't for how many complaints about it there have been. I'm just tired of repeating myself so I thought I'd make a thread for it so I can fully explain myself and stop being a broken record. I don't think my solution is the only or the best solution, but I do think it's a lot more fair and logical than much of what other people have been asking to be nerfed.

    [JEEP] [IH] [HUNT] | Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    You've got those dangerous eyes ... ♫

  • GaijinGuy.8476GaijinGuy.8476 Member ✭✭✭

    It’s how it always is. Ranger gets something nice that makes them good at something and then it gets taken away. I remember when “heal as one” got a rework it was amazing for sharing boons between you and your pet, but then it got gutted a few days later.
    I expect the same to happen soon as it already has for Druid.

  • hOpe.6180hOpe.6180 Member ✭✭

    The modifications should be focused around Rapide Fire, if you nerf traits/spells you nerf the others builds aswell wich is not justified at least in WvW.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    if you make sic em avoidable, most rangers will waste it.
    currently you only have to be in range and targetable, no matter what you do it will apply: no evade, block, blind, line of sight or invuln helps to avoid the damage boost + reveal.
    i think if it is avoidable, even with instant cast, it wont need a nerf in the modifier and it would reduce complains as many rather noobish rangers will miss it and therefor wont happen as much. but it would still keep the option for good snipes when timed correctly, the build is fragile enough to allow such singletarget burst.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    its more like rangers trying their hardest to convince ppl that their obviously op builds aren't bad for the game, and that we should look the other way since this class is a special victim with special privileges.

    That's exactly right - rangers are special victims and need special privileges. What other class had a huge amount of its dps locked into a pet with horrendous AI? Prior to soulbeasts and pet merging, performing well with a ranger meant basically accepting a big dps loss thanks to pet AI and working around it. Rangers can finally do decent weapon damage now, and people are losing their minds over it.

    This is not to say that the current state of affairs is balanced - I'm all for reducing the Sic 'Em multiplier for merged rangers in just sPvP and WvW.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2, 2019

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    If you don't want to read my explanations you can skip to the part below the line. I think if you're asking for Soulbeast to be nerfed however, reading it all may help to inspire some thoughts.

    I think everyone can agree that Soulbeast is capable of doing a colossal amount of damage in a very short frame of time, often while having a significant range advantage. But what no one seems to agree on is what needs to be nerfed. It's always just a demand for Soulbeast in general to be nerfed.

    So for the sake of discussion and education, I'd like to explain why I think ANet has allowed it to exist as it has for so long.

    Support builds in WvW are equally as broken as many of the roaming and burst builds. Just because they don't do damage doesn't mean they aren't OP. Many times I've personally witnessed Firebrands literally taking up to a minute to die while 10+ players are attacking them (and for clarity, I don't mean just standing there and dancing in circles, but rather trying to escape from a group). Unless you're fully spec'd in to damage, many of the support/bunker builds like Firebrand, Scrapper, Chronomancer, etc. will be impossible to kill in a 1v1 or even Xv1.

    With that said however, WvW is a team game. Although roaming is an aspect of WvW (and an important one), balance in that area is incredibly difficult to achieve. No matter what you do to roaming builds, it is likely to effect zergs as well. And historically, ANet has shown that they will allow roaming builds to exist as they are until they're strong enough to effect a larger scale. As a roamer, longbow Soulbeast is a +1 like a Thief that's most effective at adding to a fight when a player(s) has used multiple cooldowns. In zergs, it can fulfill a role as a sniper, but it is pretty clear how ineffective that is the majority of the time. It can work, but it requires a great deal of co-ordination and often multiple longbow Soulbeasts working together to bring their targets down. Therefore it does not effect the large scale.


    "Sic 'Em!" increases pet damage by 40% and when merged, has the same effect on the Soulbeast. 40% is an absolutely enormous damage increase for a single button push. It is a build defining skill for longbow Soulbeasts and contributes significantly to it's burst potential. However, it does not effect core Ranger or Druid, only Soulbeast. Therefore, I believe the most appropriate way to reduce the lethality of Soulbeast without effecting Ranger or Druid, and without making Soulbeast ineffective as a specialization, is to do the following;
    Reduce the percentage increase to either 10 or 15%, or do not allow "Sic 'Em!" to effect the Soulbeast while merged at all. Soulbeast, and Ranger in general, still have many damage modifiers and will still be capable snipers without this skill. It will also promote some diversity in that it will allow players who want to snipe to choose Soulbeast and players who want to play Longbow but want to 1v1 to choose core Ranger.

    You’re a platinum rank wvw player, so don’t come off as this high damage stuff being a ranger problem, or a particular skill problem... Or do we need to start posting 1 shot vids from other professions so you understand that damage all around is too high when compared to player health?

    Here, think about it before you bring up rangers again... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28024/increasing-ttk-undoing-old-split-changes-and-eliminating-skill-splitting

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hOpe.6180 said:
    The modifications should be focused around Rapide Fire, if you nerf traits/spells you nerf the others builds aswell wich is not justified at least in WvW.

    And there is more to longbow than Sic 'Em memes. RF certainly does NOT need a nerf. A core Ranger's RF can only really hurt if you truly invest and build around it, and even then it pales in comparison to Soulbeast. The problems clearly arise when Soulbeast comes into the picture. Longbow is actually a really balanced weapon with plenty of counterplay. The only thing that is arguably broken about it is how much it exceeds its listed range. I don't really see your point, because if you nerf Rapid Fire you are nerf literally every Ranger build that uses longbow.

    I think balancing the Sic 'Em is tricky because in PvE, its DPS is heavily reliant on the skill. A skill split of course could work in this sense, but I guess I don't really see the skill being used much in PvP/WvW if the modifier was nerfed so heavily. If this were to happen, I think it would need a utility buff, perhaps enhancing its reveal capabilities, or even receiving charges. The skill in its current form is very poorly executed; it is a skill that was implemented specifically and exclusively for pet interaction and never for the actual Ranger. Then Soulbeast was introduced many years later.

    Healing orbs are a mistake. Please delete them ANet.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    That's exactly right - rangers are special victims and need special privileges.

    good talk.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:

    You’re a platinum rank wvw player, so don’t come off as this high damage stuff being a ranger problem, or a particular skill problem... Or do we need to start posting 1 shot vids from other professions so you understand that damage all around is too high when compared to player health?

    Here, think about it before you bring up rangers again... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28024/increasing-ttk-undoing-old-split-changes-and-eliminating-skill-splitting

    As I've said in another comment in this thread, I wouldn't have felt the need to write the OP at all if it weren't for how frequent Soulbeast complaints are in the WvW sub. I've probably made like... Two threads in my entire GW2 life time that requested nerfs of any sort, not including this one. Because any other time I really don't care if something is broken or not. I still enjoy myself so I find ways to deal with it.

    I knew I'd get some backlash for this and that's understandable. But regardless of how people perceive it, my intent was to defend Ranger, not to complain. I wanted to put forth a suggestion in it's own thread that wasn't attacking Soulbeast outright or making demands for blanket nerfs, I don't want to see one of my favorite professions gutted. It's better to make a realistic suggestion that considers the consequences than to allow the vocal minority to have free reign. ANet may not always listen to those that speak the loudest (or most often) but changes they've made in the past certainly seem inspired by them. So I thought it would be better to say something than nothing, even if makes no difference.

    I felt strongly about this because I wanted Soulbeast (Ranger and Druid included) to continue to have relevance in small scale and roaming. I didn't want to see it nerfed in to uselessness and feel like I could have said something. If people want to rant and whine about it without actually saying anything constructive, fine. I've said what I wanted to say.

    [JEEP] [IH] [HUNT] | Necromancer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    You've got those dangerous eyes ... ♫

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2, 2019

    No reason a whole Elite Spec or profession should suffer nerfs because of a single skill.

    Imo Sic Em should always have been a reveal AoE skill, NOT! a only usable on target skill.
    Rather than give your pet a power buff it should ping a long range AoE reveal that will unstealth a single player and cause the pet to teleport to them and pin them down for a couple seconds.
    Could also act as an opening strike for the pet but if the skill fails to detect a player it does nothing and goes on CD.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    No reason a whole Elite Spec or profession should suffer nerfs because of a single skill.

    its not just a single skill tho...

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • Lala.8752Lala.8752 Member ✭✭

    "sic em!" have to be reword one more time

  • Warkind.6745Warkind.6745 Member ✭✭✭

    After watching Arc Divider's "barely decent damage" get nerfed, Sic Em Soulbeasts are starting to sweat.

    All is vain.

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    How about keep skill the same but raise the cooldown and make an an elite. 40% damage boost sounnds pretty elite.

    Where did you get that from? I'm not making a claim either way. I don't make assumptions like this to push my ideas ... and neither should anyone else.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    You’re a platinum rank wvw player, so don’t come off as this high damage stuff being a ranger problem, or a particular skill problem... Or do we need to start posting 1 shot vids from other professions so you understand that damage all around is too high when compared to player health?

    Here, think about it before you bring up rangers again... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28024/increasing-ttk-undoing-old-split-changes-and-eliminating-skill-splitting

    As I've said in another comment in this thread, I wouldn't have felt the need to write the OP at all if it weren't for how frequent Soulbeast complaints are in the WvW sub. I've probably made like... Two threads in my entire GW2 life time that requested nerfs of any sort, not including this one. Because any other time I really don't care if something is broken or not. I still enjoy myself so I find ways to deal with it.

    I knew I'd get some backlash for this and that's understandable. But regardless of how people perceive it, my intent was to defend Ranger, not to complain. I wanted to put forth a suggestion in it's own thread that wasn't attacking Soulbeast outright or making demands for blanket nerfs, I don't want to see one of my favorite professions gutted. It's better to make a realistic suggestion that considers the consequences than to allow the vocal minority to have free reign. ANet may not always listen to those that speak the loudest (or most often) but changes they've made in the past certainly seem inspired by them. So I thought it would be better to say something than nothing, even if makes no difference.

    I felt strongly about this because I wanted Soulbeast (Ranger and Druid included) to continue to have relevance in small scale and roaming. I didn't want to see it nerfed in to uselessness and feel like I could have said something. If people want to rant and whine about it without actually saying anything constructive, fine. I've said what I wanted to say.

    You’re getting backlash because most players know that damage/power creep is a thing for all professions in the game, yet you felt really urgent about 1 skill on Ranger... Never mind all the 1shot and multi-burst builds that can kill you in seconds, but ya know, Ranger skill op.

  • Balthazzarr.1349Balthazzarr.1349 Member ✭✭✭

    That does it. Take away all gear, weapons, and spells. Everyone melees naked with fists. Wait Norn need a fist nerf cause they’re too big... Charr too hairy.. getting hair in my teeth when they attack. 🤪

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you make sic em avoidable, most rangers will waste it.

    Heavens, no, please don't do that. Thieves (and to a lesser degree mesmers) have crazy evasion uptime and missing that targeted reveal would hurt a heck of a lot more than the damage boost. Nerf the damage, not the ability to land the reveal. RNGBless RNGBless RNGBless

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you make sic em avoidable, most rangers will waste it.

    Heavens, no, please don't do that. Thieves (and to a lesser degree mesmers) have crazy evasion uptime and missing that targeted reveal would hurt a heck of a lot more than the damage boost. Nerf the damage, not the ability to land the reveal. RNGBless RNGBless RNGBless

    ~ Kovu

    Don't worry, rapid fire still tracks through stealth. That'll teach those pesky thieves!

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zephyra.4709 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you make sic em avoidable, most rangers will waste it.

    Heavens, no, please don't do that. Thieves (and to a lesser degree mesmers) have crazy evasion uptime and missing that targeted reveal would hurt a heck of a lot more than the damage boost. Nerf the damage, not the ability to land the reveal. RNGBless RNGBless RNGBless

    ~ Kovu

    Don't worry, rapid fire still tracks through stealth. That'll teach those pesky thieves!

    Oh that reminded me, they should further buff sic 'em to strike through evasion frames so that part of the channel might connect. =O

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Zephyra.4709 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you make sic em avoidable, most rangers will waste it.

    Heavens, no, please don't do that. Thieves (and to a lesser degree mesmers) have crazy evasion uptime and missing that targeted reveal would hurt a heck of a lot more than the damage boost. Nerf the damage, not the ability to land the reveal. RNGBless RNGBless RNGBless

    ~ Kovu

    Don't worry, rapid fire still tracks through stealth. That'll teach those pesky thieves!

    Oh that reminded me, they should further buff sic 'em to strike through evasion frames so that part of the channel might connect. =O

    ~ Kovu

    Patch notes confirmed:

    • Rapid fire now hits 20x instead of 10x if used with sic 'em
    • Sic 'em buffed to 9000% dmg and now strikes through evade frames
  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you make sic em avoidable, most rangers will waste it.

    Heavens, no, please don't do that. Thieves (and to a lesser degree mesmers) have crazy evasion uptime and missing that targeted reveal would hurt a heck of a lot more than the damage boost. Nerf the damage, not the ability to land the reveal. RNGBless RNGBless RNGBless

    ~ Kovu

    not much RNG needed for an instant skill.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @Zephyra.4709 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Zephyra.4709 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you make sic em avoidable, most rangers will waste it.

    Heavens, no, please don't do that. Thieves (and to a lesser degree mesmers) have crazy evasion uptime and missing that targeted reveal would hurt a heck of a lot more than the damage boost. Nerf the damage, not the ability to land the reveal. RNGBless RNGBless RNGBless

    ~ Kovu

    Don't worry, rapid fire still tracks through stealth. That'll teach those pesky thieves!

    Oh that reminded me, they should further buff sic 'em to strike through evasion frames so that part of the channel might connect. =O

    ~ Kovu

    Patch notes confirmed:

    • Rapid fire now hits 20x instead of 10x if used with sic 'em
    • Sic 'em buffed to 9000% dmg and now strikes through evade frames

    Meanwhile lower in the patch notes....

    Thief

    • Evading an attack now applies 4s of reveal.

    edit-
    Seriously though, faaar to much love for ranger hate lately. Swagger's got the right of it.

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Zephyra.4709 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Zephyra.4709 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you make sic em avoidable, most rangers will waste it.

    Heavens, no, please don't do that. Thieves (and to a lesser degree mesmers) have crazy evasion uptime and missing that targeted reveal would hurt a heck of a lot more than the damage boost. Nerf the damage, not the ability to land the reveal. RNGBless RNGBless RNGBless

    ~ Kovu

    Don't worry, rapid fire still tracks through stealth. That'll teach those pesky thieves!

    Oh that reminded me, they should further buff sic 'em to strike through evasion frames so that part of the channel might connect. =O

    ~ Kovu

    Patch notes confirmed:

    • Rapid fire now hits 20x instead of 10x if used with sic 'em
    • Sic 'em buffed to 9000% dmg and now strikes through evade frames

    Meanwhile lower in the patch notes....

    Thief

    • Evading an attack now applies 4s of reveal.

    whats wrong with you?

    edit:
    you see for all i care they dont need to do anything as i dont think that its too strong.
    yet op suggested a reduction of the damage modifier. to my experience people rarely do slot a reveal skill only for the reveal, usually for the secondary effects. some do slot it when they run into someone using a lot of stealth frequently, but will swap back when they dont encounter that one for a while. warriors for example who have a much harder time against opponents using stealth to kite than rangers, usually dont slot their reveal utilities because their secondary effects are not good enough. i dont think that rangers that can deal better with mesmers and thieves, even without reveal will stick to the skill if the secondary effect gets reduced to 10-15% as the OP suggested.
    therefor i suggested instead of reducing its effects to make it avoidable. then it is still very reliable as it is instant but it has the chance to fail when spammed mindlessly. didnt know that would be a greater nerf for you than making its damage modifier redundant.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2019

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Zephyra.4709 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    if you make sic em avoidable, most rangers will waste it.

    Heavens, no, please don't do that. Thieves (and to a lesser degree mesmers) have crazy evasion uptime and missing that targeted reveal would hurt a heck of a lot more than the damage boost. Nerf the damage, not the ability to land the reveal. RNGBless RNGBless RNGBless

    ~ Kovu

    Don't worry, rapid fire still tracks through stealth. That'll teach those pesky thieves!

    Oh that reminded me, they should further buff sic 'em to strike through evasion frames so that part of the channel might connect. =O

    ~ Kovu

    Which reminds me ranger should have more access to reveal while the pet is active (so no merged, no dead pet) . There is no point to have all the weapons with the requeriment of having a target if the target is invisible all the time.

    I did like the suggestion of to make sicem an elite, and move to it's right place the skill "RoA" (because after the nerf God knows that skill is only used because there is nothing else worth using in that slot). Problem is we already have 2 "commands" with absurd CD, RoA and S&R.
    We should ask for this skill (S&R) to increase radius and reduce CD also, at least in WvW and PvE, This skill was a lot of fun before the hammer nerfs which destroyed another possible utility for the Druid at the time. To get gutted because Esports was another of the horrible mistakes the balance team has done for this game.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    have sic' em only affects the pet skills when merged but not the weapon/utility skills

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @derd.6413 said:
    have sic' em only affects the pet skills when merged but not the weapon/utility skills

    You know. That's actually a really good idea.

    @MUD, because the two professions I use reveal against the most have the most evasion frames, oftentimes without much of a tell. I'd rather the reveal just work even if the damage wasn't a thing.

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    have sic' em only affects the pet skills when merged but not the weapon/utility skills

    You know. That's actually a really good idea.

    i have my moments

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

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