Thief - 07/15/2019 Upcoming Balance Notes!! — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Thief - 07/15/2019 Upcoming Balance Notes!!

Xenji.4907Xenji.4907 Member ✭✭✭
edited July 13, 2019 in Thief

Thief
In this update, we are reworking the Shadow Arts trait line for thieves. As a support- and survivalist-focused line, we wanted to refocus it around stronger themes as well as improve the potency of its minor traits. Many of the more passive traits have been adjusted or rebuilt to have more active effects, while some of the more niche traits like Merciful Ambush have been adjusted to have more general-use applications. Meanwhile, new traits like Shadow Savior and reworked traits like Rending Shade will help to provide new ways to approach combat. Thief trap skills are being retired for now and replaced by a new type of ability: Preparations. See below for their more information on those skills.

  • Dagger Storm: Reduced the casting time by 30%. Increased damage by 33% in PvE only.
  • Smoke Screen: This skill now creates a ring instead of a line.
  • Infiltrator's Signet: Increased range from 900 to 1,200.
  • The following skills have been removed: Needle Trap, Tripwire, Shadow Trap, Ambush.
  • Traps (Skill Category): This category has been replaced by a new skill category: Preparations.

    • Preparations will function in a similar fashion to trap abilities, but they will not fire unless the thief chooses to trigger them. Each preparation will have a radius of 240 and will produce a variety of results, including the introduction of a portal-type utility that can ferry allies to a location.
      Prepare Pitfall: This new skill will mark your current area with controlling magic, readying the location to crush enemies when released.
  • Pitfall: This new skill will unleash your pitfall on an area, knocking down foes and delivering constant damage over time.

  • Prepare Thousand Needles: This new skill will mark your current area with inhibiting magic, readying the location to poison enemies.
  • Thousand Needles: This new skill will unleash a hail of needles that immobilizes enemies on impact and repeatedly strikes foes over a short period of time.
  • Prepare Seal Area: This new skill will mark your current area with stifling magic, readying the location to seal enemies in.
  • Seal Area: This new skill will seal your marked area, blocking projectiles and preventing enemies from entering or leaving.
  • Prepare Shadow Portal: This new skill will mark your current location with shadow magic.
  • Shadow Portal: This new skill will unleash the shadow magic at your prepared location, creating a one-way portal that you and your allies can take. Allies traveling through the portal will be granted stealth, and foes around the portal's exit will be weakened. This skill is split between game modes, allowing 5 allies through in PvE and WvW, while only allowing one ally through in PvP.
  • Uncatchable: This skill now also casts Lesser Caltrops when you take falling damage in addition to when dodge rolling, and it also reduces falling damage by 50%.

  • Deadly Arts: This line has had some traits reworked due to the removal of Traps as a skill category. Preparations will not be receiving a trait at this time and will instead be balanced as though they are traited already.

    Adept

    • Dagger Training: This trait no longer inflicts poison on dagger attacks.
    • Trapper's Respite: This trait has been reworked and renamed Deadly Ambition.
    • Deadly Ambition: Inflict 2 stacks of poison for 3 seconds when striking a foe, with an internal cooldown of 3 seconds in PvE, 5 seconds in PvP. Gain +120 condition damage when this trait is equipped.

    Master

    • Deadly Trapper: This trait has been reworked and renamed Even the Odds.
    • Even the Odds: Inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds on targets you steal from. Gain 5 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you hit an enemy with a stealth attack.
  • Shadow Arts: Shadow Arts traits have been reworked and moved. The new traits are as follows.

    Minor

    • Concealing Restoration: With this new trait, casting your heal skill grants 2 seconds of stealth.
    • Meld with Shadows: In addition to extending the duration of stealth, this trait now also increases movement speed while in stealth by 50%.
    • Shadow Siphoning: This new trait causes all stealth attacks to siphon health if they hit. Cannot occur more than once per second per target hit.

    Adept

    • Merciful Ambush: This trait has been moved to the adept tier. It no longer increases revive speed and instead causes applying stealth to an ally to heal and revive them over 3 seconds.
    • Shadow's Embrace: This trait has been moved to a different slot in the same tier. Its functionality is unchanged.
    • Hidden Thief: This trait has been moved to the adept tier. It no longer increases movement speed while in stealth. Instead it grants 20% recharge reduction to deceptions.

    Master

    • Shadow Savior: This new trait causes you to heal yourself after shadowstepping. Nearby allies are healed for double the amount you are.
    • Leeching Venoms: This trait has been moved to new slot in the same tier. It no longer reduces recharge of venoms. Instead it causes the thief to stack spider venom automatically while in stealth.
    • Flickering Shadows: This new trait grants 33% damage reduction while revealed.

    Grandmaster

    • Cloaked in Shadow: This trait no longer grants immunity to critical hits. Instead it causes blinding a foe to siphon health.
    • Shadow's Rejuvenation: This trait has not changed.
    • Rending Shade: This trait no longer reduces damage from boonless foes. Instead it inflicts fear in a small area if it hits a boonless foe.

UPDATE:

@Karl McLain.5604 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Karl McLain.5604 said:
Being that the notes have gone out early and the theorycraft is in full swing, I want to add one additional note on Preparations.
This ability type still carries similar functionality to other abilities that have arm-times. For preparations, the arm time is set at 3 seconds, with the activation being instant for non-damaging ones and 1/4 second for the damaging ones.
These abilities have a few unique aspects to them. We're looking forward to seeing the builds and gameplay that you come up with!

-Karl

Just to make sure I understand; Would it take me 3 seconds to place the preparation (as in, be rooted in place) and it's ready to be activated after that or do I place it instantly but can move away and I just can't activate it until 3 seconds have passed?

It's a fairly quick 1/2 second cast. I'll look to edit the post and incorporate this info.

<13

Comments

  • omgdracula.6345omgdracula.6345 Member ✭✭✭

    I am assuming none of these are going to bring D/P back into the meta at all?

  • ParanoidKami.2867ParanoidKami.2867 Member ✭✭✭

    Shadow Arts is getting a huge improvement :) Weird that Thieves Guild isn't getting a buff of any kind.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    Rending Shade is a simple but really nice change, even with my boon steal build there's always at least one boon up.
    I prefer revive speed.
    I preferred damage reduction while stealthed
    I like the support aspects of some of these changes, both for maneuvering and for filler healing/siphoning from different sources that are semi frequent.
    There are other Shadowsteps but sword main hand will continue to be awesome.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    its fun to troll with new stuff but its still useless compare to meta.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All remains the same in the end.
    Lmao only arenanet.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭

    The Shadow Portal is the biggest change here. Its certainly not as good as Mesmer Portal, but it does give Thief extra mobility. I expect it to be used quite a fair bit. Non-mainhand dagger condi thief also got a buff, perhaps P/D might be a fine roamer in WvW now. However, beyond that, most of these changes dont really do much. Traits that work on stealth attacks have the big issue that outside of Rifle (for whom none of these traits matter because if your DJ hits, the enemy is dead) noone ever uses Stealth Attacks. After that update where they get 1 second cd whenever they miss, theyre just not worth it.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @omgdracula.6345 said:
    I am assuming none of these are going to bring D/P back into the meta at all?

    Core D/P maybe, I always believed it to be viable replacement for DD D/P (after DD nerf of course).

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Ustaf.2953Ustaf.2953 Member ✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @omgdracula.6345 said:
    I am assuming none of these are going to bring D/P back into the meta at all?

    Core D/P maybe, I always believed it to be viable replacement for DD D/P (after DD nerf of course).

    Yeah I'm pretty excited to try Core SA Trickery CS/DA D/P after these changes. Could be a good brawler type spec flitting in and out of steath to life leech depending on the numbers of the new changes to SA.

    Also looks like it could be a small buff to Medic Thief meme build with rezz/ heal on stealth application and shadowsteps

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @Sizzle Hint.1820 said:
    LOL is this for real? what a joke

    Edit: like srsly you nerf D/P again? Talk abt beating a dead horse …

    Gotta admit the portal sounds interesting but thats about it. Seriously Arena net get your kitten together this doesnt cut it. Like at all.

    What's exactly a joke about it?

    @Helicity.3416 said:

    • +2s on my hide in shadows for 6s stealth

    At this point just use withdraw with lower cd for additional siphon? :D

  • Trianox.3486Trianox.3486 Member ✭✭

    Hummm interesting. I find the trait combination to open more possibilities (but maybe still inferior to other options?)

    I like the idea of Shadow shot (D/P 3) and Infiltrators Arrow (SB 5) benefiting from both blind (the grandmaster siphon trait) and shadowstepping (heal, for Shadow savior).

    Cloak in Shadow siphoning on blind seems quite interesting with our high blind access on weapons (P/D, Pistol off-hand, staff, etc), utilities, traits/stealth.

    Quite like the idea of Withdraw combined with stealth and 50% run speed.

    The way the reframe stealth a bit seems like rotations for certain builds using stealth attack would make them more intuitive/fluide.

    Condi build using SA seems more doable than before (maybe still subpar). Hum.

    The way some of the new traits are made (example with Deadly Ambitions) makes them usable in less restrictive way.

    Will have to test to really assess how good/bad it is.

  • @Xenji.4907 said:

    • Deadly Arts: This line has had some traits reworked due to the removal of Traps as a skill category. Preparations will not be receiving a trait at this time and will instead be balanced as though they are traited already.

      Adept

      • Dagger Training: This trait no longer inflicts poison on dagger attacks.
      • Trapper's Respite: This trait has been reworked and renamed Deadly Ambition.
      • Deadly Ambition: Inflict 2 stacks of poison for 3 seconds when striking a foe, with an internal cooldown of 3 seconds in PvE, 5 seconds in PvP. Gain +120 condition damage when this trait is equipped.

    Bye bye Mug?

  • Joshewwah.2956Joshewwah.2956 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Will thief now be playable in WvW zergs? Seems like those pitfall skills can be useful. Especially:

    Prepare Seal Area: This new skill will mark your current area with stifling magic, readying the location to seal enemies in.
    Seal Area: This new skill will seal your marked area, blocking projectiles and preventing enemies from entering or leaving.

    That would make doing combos with wells even more powerful considering enemies won't be able to run away, given how many scrappers and superspeed buffs there are in WvW

    Edit:
    Also no more meme condi thief trap builds in WvW, hallelujah!

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Valar Dotalis.6409 said:

    @Xenji.4907 said:

    • Deadly Arts: This line has had some traits reworked due to the removal of Traps as a skill category. Preparations will not be receiving a trait at this time and will instead be balanced as though they are traited already.

      Adept

      • Dagger Training: This trait no longer inflicts poison on dagger attacks.
      • Trapper's Respite: This trait has been reworked and renamed Deadly Ambition.
      • Deadly Ambition: Inflict 2 stacks of poison for 3 seconds when striking a foe, with an internal cooldown of 3 seconds in PvE, 5 seconds in PvP. Gain +120 condition damage when this trait is equipped.

    Bye bye Mug?

    Try re-reading?

  • @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Valar Dotalis.6409 said:

    @Xenji.4907 said:

    • Deadly Arts: This line has had some traits reworked due to the removal of Traps as a skill category. Preparations will not be receiving a trait at this time and will instead be balanced as though they are traited already.

      Adept

      • Dagger Training: This trait no longer inflicts poison on dagger attacks.
      • Trapper's Respite: This trait has been reworked and renamed Deadly Ambition.
      • Deadly Ambition: Inflict 2 stacks of poison for 3 seconds when striking a foe, with an internal cooldown of 3 seconds in PvE, 5 seconds in PvP. Gain +120 condition damage when this trait is equipped.

    Bye bye Mug?

    Try re-reading?

    Oops, lol. Crisis averted.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One of the builds I play is p/d condition using the SA line. I see a significant upside wih these changes either from a damage out perspective or one where you focus on sustain.

    Now contrary to some that claimed few use stealth to attack p/d does in fact do this and pops in and out of stealth with regularity. My own build uses tormenting runes and these gives a decent heal on every application of torment. Now I can envision taking the shadowstep heal trait along with stealth on heal coupled with withdraw and the shadows rejuv where one heals while stealthed and everytime I use a shadowstrike i get the heal off torment runes due to torment app, the heal off the shadowstep and a heal if i pop into stealth. The shadow siphoningh is also intriguing dependent on the heal size.

    Alternatively I can take the new venom trait to stack spider venom stealthed and mix this with deadly ambition and even the odds out of the DA line and this should see a significant boost in Condition adds.

  • Cobrakon.3108Cobrakon.3108 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Been a while since a patch dropped that merits a bit of theory crafting. However, I'm always a skeptic because things in the past that might seem interesting were about as effective as a plastic bat hitting a brick wall.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    THE RISE OF THE HEAL THIEF!!!!!!!!

    Interested in some off-meta Revenant roaming? Click below.

    Shiro/Mallyx | Shiro/Jalis | Shiro/Ventari | Mallyx/Ventari | Mallyx/Jalis | Hybrid Herald

    [IH] Invoking Harmony

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    Has Support/Healer Thief became a reality?

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ultramex.1506 said:
    Has Support/Healer Thief became a reality?

    This is what I'm interested in tbh. Been waiting years.

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Merciful Ambush turns Shadow Refuge into a pickup utility. Sweet
    (looks like trying to put an image on here is near impossible now)

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it. Out of Date
    These DE tips are still relevant. Out of Date

  • If support healer thief is now a real thing then i'm happy for those who wanted to support more in PvP/WvW but i'm looking forward to healing skills stealth you and healing while shadow stepping. The applications to that are amazing when you compare it with just healing from mug. If you are a S/D thief for example you with have Steal, Sword 2, and Shadow Step utility skill all healing you even if you give up damage and poison for the trade off. Knowing Anet its going to be shadow step to target get only 200 hp allies get 400 hp and ruin it but I can't wait to see how some of the traits turn out.

  • Markri.9475Markri.9475 Member ✭✭

    No idea how useful anyghing of this will be, as it doesnt show any numbers of damage, ranges or ICDs.
    at what interval will venom stack in stealth? at 1 every 3 sec? 1 every 1 sec?
    The ICD on the shadowstep heal, and its potency?
    Did all the new preps get their damage increased considering their useage changed? able to trigger preps while CCd?

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thiefs will probably suffer from an increased level of hate after the patch hit... Not because the thief will be better but because the patch strengthen toxic gameplay.

  • These heals better be on par with wolverines healing power .. Cuz no matter how we build we are paper...
    Zerks =wet paper
    Minstrels = construction paper..
    Warrior, gaurds = tanks
    Rangers = snipers with pets
    Etc not gonna go on
    I use to play ninja nurse alot... Id take dmg reduction anyday...

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Takes the most useless traits/skills and changes them (who even uses inf. signet or traps?). Thnx but we didn't even need that. Are they even listening to player feedback? Atleast they could've rerolled swipe to 1200 range and un-nerfed lead attacks. And i was hopeful they will do somethin... well.. another 3-4 months of waitin for another balance patch. Cya all after 4 months gl gettin rekt in PvP as usual.

    #MakeTeefGreatAgain

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    I must admit, I do use that signet and traps in some of my builds. I'm surprised they took the idea someone here asked for [actually they didn't ask, but suggest], which was the portal.
    There may have been others that suggested too, but the one I remember is from here:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/547258/#Comment_547258
    "...Reveal yourself, create a portal that’s invisible to enemies at a target location, allies can go through the portal to teleport to your side..."
    It is a somewhat similar idea anyway. I suppose they do listen, but it takes a veryyy long time for any suggestion to manifest and get the ok.

  • Trianox.3486Trianox.3486 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    The staff blind attack always seemed a bit lack luster given it was high initiatives for almost nothing but a AoE blind. Now that blond siphon (DMG + heal), it's actually a buff... Only the value of siphon will define whether this is a small or decent update.

    It further boosts damage and utility of Shortbow, and we'll, basically all of our weapon kits.

  • foste.3098foste.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    has no one taken notice of the fact dagger storm will be a 2.8 sec evade? (or a 3.05 evade since at the moment it is 4.25)

    • Dagger Storm: Reduced the casting time by 30%. Increased damage by 33% in PvE only.

    But this means that it deals it's damage faster since it was not reduced

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I looked at it, I swear I did, but my eyes are still glossed over from the rest of the notes.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:
    The Shadow Portal is the biggest change here. Its certainly not as good as Mesmer Portal, but it does give Thief extra mobility. I expect it to be used quite a fair bit. Non-mainhand dagger condi thief also got a buff, perhaps P/D might be a fine roamer in WvW now. However, beyond that, most of these changes dont really do much. Traits that work on stealth attacks have the big issue that outside of Rifle (for whom none of these traits matter because if your DJ hits, the enemy is dead) noone ever uses Stealth Attacks. After that update where they get 1 second cd whenever they miss, theyre just not worth it.

    Uh... I use them. Granted, many outside dagger aren't useful.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Dave.6819 said:
    Takes the most useless traits/skills and changes them (who even uses inf. signet or traps?). Thnx but we didn't even need that.

    You mean they were supposed to leave the most useless traits to remain useless instead of changing/impoving them? What kind of backwards logic is that? I seriously don't understand the logic behind that sentence.

    Are they even listening to player feedback?

    Pretty sure there were some threads/posts about improving SA tree, because it was garbage. We don't know the numbers yet, but the changes seem potentially useful for multiple playstyles.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I’ll add this here:

    @Karl McLain.5604 said:
    Being that the notes have gone out early and the theorycraft is in full swing, I want to add one additional note on Preparations.
    This ability type still carries similar functionality to other abilities that have arm-times. For preparations, the cast time is 1/2 second and the arm time is set at 3 seconds, with the activation being instant for non-damaging ones and 1/4 second for the damaging ones.
    These abilities have a few unique aspects to them. We're looking forward to seeing the builds and gameplay that you come up with!

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • omgdracula.6345omgdracula.6345 Member ✭✭✭

    @Karl McLain.5604 Shadow Savior: This new trait causes you to heal yourself after shadowstepping. Nearby allies are healed for double the amount you are. I am assuming this has an ICD?

  • Ojimaru.8970Ojimaru.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So it seems like they're trying to promote core thief or deadeye for the role of PVE support, or even tanking. So let's have some early analysis, assuming the healing numbers are solid.

    Raids. No matter how you slice it, a healer or tank that doesn't bring group boons to the table is worthless compared to the available options. Moreover, any up-and-coming support specialization needs to provide decent Quickness, Alacrity, or even both; simply providing Might and Fury puts the build up against the druid, which still provides the most Might uptime, while also providing unique damage boons. Boon and heal thieves have found their niche in raid encounters where Detonate Plasma is on the table, thus allowing them to replace a heal/quickbrand. Sadly, most of the other stolen raid skills don't offer much in the way of boons or unique utility, much less any of the other stolen skills in Fractals.

    Fractals. Speaking of Fractals, you could probably make a solid argument to replace the druid or alacren with a deadeye, seeing as spirits have much less of an impact in 5-person group, and alacrity doesn't matter as much in Fractals as the fights are so short anyway. The addition of a thief may also open up some additional possibilities for skips, either through teleportation or stealth.

    As far as gear goes, Harrier is likely still the best option for heal-centric Shadow Arts builds. I've thought of a tanking Minstrels build, but as mentioned above, it would take up a druid's spot at the cost of lower reliability of might uptime, as well as the loss of spirit boons and (to a lesser extent) Spotter.

    "Thief? How rude! I'm a Procurement Specialist." -Glenn Gynnafante

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:
    Takes the most useless traits/skills and changes them (who even uses inf. signet or traps?). Thnx but we didn't even need that.

    You mean they were supposed to leave the most useless traits to remain useless instead of changing/impoving them? What kind of backwards logic is that? I seriously don't understand the logic behind that sentence.

    Are they even listening to player feedback?

    Pretty sure there were some threads/posts about improving SA tree, because it was garbage. We don't know the numbers yet, but the changes seem potentially useful for multiple playstyles.

    I mean it's like taking Spirit Weapons of Guardian and buffing them up. That's the logic behind it. No one uses them.. so why not address more important issues instead of making it look like you are changing something but in reality you are changing nothing.

    SA buff is a good thing don't get me wrong i never said anythin bout SA. But sadly it's mostly for DE. I'm only Daredevil/Thief player i ignore DE. When D/P SA DA Trick or D/D SA DA Trick will be a thing again then yea that's cool. But these changes to SA won't be meta for D/P or D/D Thieves. Remember back in the day when D/D thief was the best thing ever? Not sure if these changes will bring that back. Too much powercreep from other classes to make SA viable again. For DE tho.. yea.. SA works perfectly. Who plays DE in ranked tho? Imagine DrD goin for SA/Trick/DrD or even SA/DA/DrD. If that would be meta it would be amazing. But these changes won't make that viable. Basically taking a dead thing and buffing it to pretend to bring it back to life. Well.. Buff it further then if you really want SA to become meta.

    Let's stop beating a dead horse. Let's focus on what changes are really in dire need rather then trying to bring dead things to life. Like revert Lead Attacks and revert Steal change and even exhaustion on DrD dodge. Those 3 "minor" things would do so much more then changing traps or buffing inf. signet.

    #MakeTeefGreatAgain

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:
    Takes the most useless traits/skills and changes them (who even uses inf. signet or traps?). Thnx but we didn't even need that.

    You mean they were supposed to leave the most useless traits to remain useless instead of changing/impoving them? What kind of backwards logic is that? I seriously don't understand the logic behind that sentence.

    Are they even listening to player feedback?

    Pretty sure there were some threads/posts about improving SA tree, because it was garbage. We don't know the numbers yet, but the changes seem potentially useful for multiple playstyles.

    I mean it's like taking Spirit Weapons of Guardian and buffing them up. That's the logic behind it. No one uses them.. so why not address more important issues instead of making it look like you are changing something but in reality you are changing nothing.

    What do you mean "in reality you are changing nothing"? That's nonsense.
    So why not address more important issues? Because (completely forgetting about it being subjective in the first place) trying to make more builds and playstyles viable for more players is more important for the state of the game as a whole than constantly buffing and tinkering around "meta builds" because you want the strong ones become stronger? If you want them to concentrate on a single build or skill category "because it's strong already" then why do we even have specs and different utility skills available? Seems like a step in a good dierction to me. Not even talking about viability, because we don't have 'the numbers', but somehow you already know it's wothless. At least this seems to be the constant on gw2 forum (for one: pre-release berks crying about berk stance having "cast time" without knowing how "long" it is -holy kitten, how about wait and see after it's released and then complain about it?).

    SA buff is a good thing don't get me wrong i never said anythin bout SA. But sadly it's mostly for DE. I'm only Daredevil/Thief player i ignore DE. When D/P SA DA Trick or D/D SA DA Trick will be a thing again then yea that's cool. But these changes to SA won't be meta for D/P or D/D Thieves. Remember back in the day when D/D thief was the best thing ever? Not sure if these changes will bring that back. Too much powercreep from other classes to make SA viable again. For DE tho.. yea.. SA works perfectly. Who plays DE in ranked tho? Imagine DrD goin for SA/Trick/DrD or even SA/DA/DrD. If that would be meta it would be amazing. But these changes won't make that viable. Basically taking a dead thing and buffing it to pretend to bring it back to life. Well.. Buff it further then if you really want SA to become meta.

    Ah, it's just that you wrote "Takes the most useless traits/skills and changes them" and "Are they even listening to player feedback?", while... you know... SA and traps. So the answer here stays like it was before, respectively: "that's a step in the right direction" and "yes".
    Saying SA change is useful only (or mostly) for DE is simply false. That said, again, we don't have the numbers, but it's awesome you already have the knowledge on all the details (like siphon/heal/ICD) and alrerady know they're not viable and need to be buffed more. On that note, at least share them with the rest of us, so I can agree with you.

    Let's stop beating a dead horse. Let's focus on what changes are really in dire need rather then trying to bring dead things to life.

    Copy-paste the first paragraph of this post. I just disagree with your opinion on this one. Trying to bring dead things to life is a good thing for the players, much needed build diversity and the game as a whole.

  • Xenji.4907Xenji.4907 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:
    Let's stop beating a dead horse. Let's focus on what changes are really in dire need rather then trying to bring dead things to life.

    Copy-paste the first paragraph of this post. I just disagree with your opinion on this one. Trying to bring dead things to life is a good thing for the players, much needed build diversity and the game as a whole.

    Sobx - I agree. I believe Dave is talking from a pvp aspect where if we are not helping the meta or at least adding to it is not worth it. This will help build variety but only the ones that will appreciate it are open world and wvw(not try hard guilds in wvw), where you don't get flamed for not using meta.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2019

    @Xenji.4907 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:
    Let's stop beating a dead horse. Let's focus on what changes are really in dire need rather then trying to bring dead things to life.

    Copy-paste the first paragraph of this post. I just disagree with your opinion on this one. Trying to bring dead things to life is a good thing for the players, much needed build diversity and the game as a whole.

    Sobx - I agree. I believe Dave is talking from a pvp aspect where if we are not helping the meta or at least adding to it is not worth it. This will help build variety but only the ones that will appreciate it are open world and wvw(not try hard guilds in wvw), where you don't get flamed for not using meta.

    Yea i didn't mention game mode. U guessed it right. I'm only playing PvP and WvW roam. PvE i dont even mention cuz any changes are good for PvE be it traps or sa or whatever. Everytin works for PvE and diversity is good in that game mode. I do play like 70% PvP 29% WvW and 1% PvE. My point of view is only from making a thief stronger in PvP and not only a decapper or +1er. And these changes? I'm sure 99% it won't change anythin in PvP. SA was once quite a good thing in PvP. Back in the Shadows Refuge days when ppl used to play SA/Crit/Trick. When thieves could actually ress up 1-2 people and didn't die while doing it. We are way too far away from those days tho. I highly highly doubt SA changes will enable Thief of doing that while getting pounded by scourges/holos/revs. Even reveal wasn't a thing back then as i recall. But i get it. Lots of peeps really hate thief class and they say that this class is responsible for creating toxic environment (i don't get it why but okey..). So Anet made sure to tone down thief so much that community would stop complainin. Even now in forums i saw a guy going nuts over these SA changes. He's thinkin that Thief must get nerfed even more to the point of being totally useless to stop toxicity and if not he'll stop playing gw2.(wth?!) That's how hypcritical and full of "class'ism" our community is. I don't mind at this point i'm waitin for another 3-4 months to see the next balance patch. Peeps don't want thieves so let's give them that.

    #MakeTeefGreatAgain

  • Trianox.3486Trianox.3486 Member ✭✭

    Ah Shadow refuge rezz.. it seems like the new SA lines can help with that... But indeed, holo/scourge/etc are still around... So.... We shall see how practical it is in reality.

  • SehferViega.8725SehferViega.8725 Member ✭✭
    edited July 13, 2019

    @foste.3098 said:
    has no one taken notice of the fact dagger storm will be a 2.8 sec evade? (or a 3.05 evade since at the moment it is 4.25)

    • Dagger Storm: Reduced the casting time by 30%. Increased damage by 33% in PvE only.

    But this means that it deals it's damage faster since it was not reduced

    Casting time usually is a different thing respect Duration: in Dagger Storm we have casting time and Duration with the same ammount of time.
    With Path of Fire pre-patch they reduced the duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds and they doubled the number of daggers thrown.
    Now they are only talking about casting time, we know nothing about duration, evade and number of daggers thrown.

    That could means:

    • Dagger Storm will have a reduced duration and of course it'll do less damage and grants less evade.
    • They will only reduce casting time so it means enemy have less time to interrupt this skill (with Spectral Ring, Line of Warding, Unsteady Ground) ==> to good to be true XD
  • Why doesn't Leeching Venoms reduce the recharge of venoms? Venoms are already useless enough...

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    @Joshewwah.2956 said:
    Will thief now be playable in WvW zergs? Seems like those pitfall skills can be useful. Especially:

    Prepare Seal Area: This new skill will mark your current area with stifling magic, readying the location to seal enemies in.
    Seal Area: This new skill will seal your marked area, blocking projectiles and preventing enemies from entering or leaving.

    That would make doing combos with wells even more powerful considering enemies won't be able to run away, given how many scrappers and superspeed buffs there are in WvW

    Edit:
    Also no more meme condi thief trap builds in WvW, hallelujah!

    huehue i have million stacks of stability i just run tru everything like its nothing :D

  • Ustaf.2953Ustaf.2953 Member ✭✭

    @Joshewwah.2956 said:
    Why doesn't Leeching Venoms reduce the recharge of venoms? Venoms are already useless enough...

    I think anet is generally trying to move away from CD reduction traits as it makes them harder to balance. All the elite specs have been lacking them for example

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