ANet, Can we please get an announcement of how you intend to respond to the feedback on "templates"? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

ANet, Can we please get an announcement of how you intend to respond to the feedback on "templates"?

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  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Glass Hand.7306 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    Prices are dead set no matter what (reimbursement isn't in their vocabulary). I'm never going to purchase any upgrades unless they go 50% off minimum.

    Yes, I don't see a base price cut on the horizon. However sales do happen for other in game items and build templates would likely be something they would run sales on. This is a game financed through the cash shop now and people have to realize this is the alternative to a subscription. We get living story updates and some basic feature implementations for free. However luxuries like expanded build storage will be monetized. People who support the game with gem purchases will get the goodies. The golden rule - he who has the gold makes the rules.

    As far as the other things that are likely to happen based on my experiences (and I've been a GW2 player since launch) this is what my guess is:

    Bugs like ejection of sigils etc will be fixed.
    Misfeatures like lack of automatic loading when switching games modes will be addressed.
    Adjustments to functionality like lack of linkage of builds to equipment specs? Who knows. I think that's what players need to focus their lobbying on. The current implementation would be MUCH more valuable if this was supported. Arguments to Anet that they would sell more build storage slots if the build contained equipment specs could be very persuasive.

    So when do us old timers get a refund on what we paid for the game? How about the expansions, each of which is pretty much the same price? The only thing worse than a sub model is a cash-shop-only model.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why should anyone get a refund for what they paid for the game?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Glass Hand.7306 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    Prices are dead set no matter what (reimbursement isn't in their vocabulary). I'm never going to purchase any upgrades unless they go 50% off minimum.

    Yes, I don't see a base price cut on the horizon. However sales do happen for other in game items and build templates would likely be something they would run sales on. This is a game financed through the cash shop now and people have to realize this is the alternative to a subscription. We get living story updates and some basic feature implementations for free. However luxuries like expanded build storage will be monetized. People who support the game with gem purchases will get the goodies. The golden rule - he who has the gold makes the rules.

    As far as the other things that are likely to happen based on my experiences (and I've been a GW2 player since launch) this is what my guess is:

    Bugs like ejection of sigils etc will be fixed.
    Misfeatures like lack of automatic loading when switching games modes will be addressed.
    Adjustments to functionality like lack of linkage of builds to equipment specs? Who knows. I think that's what players need to focus their lobbying on. The current implementation would be MUCH more valuable if this was supported. Arguments to Anet that they would sell more build storage slots if the build contained equipment specs could be very persuasive.

    So when do us old timers get a refund on what we paid for the game? How about the expansions, each of which is pretty much the same price? The only thing worse than a sub model is a cash-shop-only model.

    If you can't curb your own spending habits then who's fault is that.. no one is holding a gun to your head to purchase anything from the cash shop and expacs are always a cost plus whether its sub based or B2P/F2P. Even LS updates are free if you login at some point during the update window.
    So I am curious, what is it that you feel entitled to a refund for or are you just throwing toys out the pram for effect?

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Tyncale.1629 said:
    I love the templates. Never used Arcdps. I bet lots of the non-forum people are like me. Man, is the competitive-mode crowd loud on these forums.

    I like them too..but I hope they make them more affordable.

    They are over rpiced. And account shared trait templates, should be free.

    Price isn't going to change. Watch for sales ... these do happen.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Its crazy how fast customers seem to think these are coded.. I don't like the implementation of build templates either but making changes takes weeks or months, full overhauls might take longer.. Although with Anet track record i cannot see an overhaul.

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

    I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @susana.7814 said:
    yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

    Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.
    Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

    i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

    Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.
    They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..
    Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

    There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

    "Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

    It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

    ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.
    Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

    By the same logic, EA chose to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

    Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

    The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

    Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

    Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something..

    "Vote with your wallet" is a myth and it simply doesn't work in today's gaming, when a whale's " vote" is worth so much more. What works, is creating enough negative buzz to hurt a company's public image. Something that's easier than ever in the age of social media.

    I'm not saying the current template debacle is an issue that will achieve negative buzz of that magnitude. I'm just saying that, in general, players would be stupid not to use a tool so powerful.

    You are better off hitting their twitters and facebooks en mass.. but you need lots of people one person just gets deleted.

    1 person was able to make them alone 2 years faster then anet.

    I understand that but it still takes time.

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    They likely won't do anything and just wait for us to stop complaining, move on to the next fiasco, rinse and repeat.

    so you are still salty about that.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    @Glass Hand.7306 said:
    Bugs like ejection of sigils etc will be fixed.

    Don't see any bug in that. This is cool feature for leg armor/wep.

    Misfeatures like lack of automatic loading when switching games modes will be addressed.

    yes, this is bug if compared whit prev expr. Ans I think also it will be fixed.

    Adjustments to functionality like lack of linkage of builds to equipment specs? Who knows.

    I know. Answers - no, no needed for exp players who have 20-40 builds. Anyway better and cheaper keep it separability. For most non exp player enough current..

  • This is clearly a beta feature released too early, just to monetize, even if you buy tons of slot the "template" feature it's so badly implemented that seems quite useless, I had problems in Pvp, WvW and pve mainly switching game mode, but as in the past I think we must face the reality, this is what they gave us, and we have to live with it, we have to just find workarounds for these bugs at the moment

  • NaramSin.2693NaramSin.2693 Member ✭✭
    edited November 6, 2019

    So when do us old timers get a refund on what we paid for the game?

    Never, they didn't even refund anyone for the "reaper glyph" disaster, you bought something that badly changed due to a bug in another content that they were unable to fix, so live with that..

  • Glass Hand.7306Glass Hand.7306 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2019

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Glass Hand.7306 said:
    Bugs like ejection of sigils etc will be fixed.

    Don't see any bug in that. This is cool feature

    It's not cool if you are trying to move stuff to another character.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Glass Hand.7306 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    Prices are dead set no matter what (reimbursement isn't in their vocabulary). I'm never going to purchase any upgrades unless they go 50% off minimum.

    Yes, I don't see a base price cut on the horizon. However sales do happen for other in game items and build templates would likely be something they would run sales on. This is a game financed through the cash shop now and people have to realize this is the alternative to a subscription. We get living story updates and some basic feature implementations for free. However luxuries like expanded build storage will be monetized. People who support the game with gem purchases will get the goodies. The golden rule - he who has the gold makes the rules.

    As far as the other things that are likely to happen based on my experiences (and I've been a GW2 player since launch) this is what my guess is:

    Bugs like ejection of sigils etc will be fixed.
    Misfeatures like lack of automatic loading when switching games modes will be addressed.
    Adjustments to functionality like lack of linkage of builds to equipment specs? Who knows. I think that's what players need to focus their lobbying on. The current implementation would be MUCH more valuable if this was supported. Arguments to Anet that they would sell more build storage slots if the build contained equipment specs could be very persuasive.

    So when do us old timers get a refund on what we paid for the game? How about the expansions, each of which is pretty much the same price? The only thing worse than a sub model is a cash-shop-only model.

    If you can't curb your own spending habits then who's fault is that.. no one is holding a gun to your head to purchase anything from the cash shop and expacs are always a cost plus whether its sub based or B2P/F2P. Even LS updates are free if you login at some point during the update window.
    So I am curious, what is it that you feel entitled to a refund for or are you just throwing toys out the pram for effect?

    I never mentioned the cash shop, although I have spent a pretty penny there. When I started this game was BTP, a model I loved and supported with multiple license codes for the core game (and not the cheepo version of it either). The expansions were the only way to get the vast majority of content (you can unlock episodes but not play them), which went against what they had been saying before then, but even then I kept up buying things like deluxe and ultimate editions.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Solitude.2097Solitude.2097 Member ✭✭
    edited November 7, 2019

    Is it my idea , or 3 storage expanion costs 500 now ?
    https://imgur.com/a/CcP3Hmm

  • Alin.2468Alin.2468 Member ✭✭✭

    Silence is an answer too.

    One man's trash is another man's treasure.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    They're going to release few more LOADOUT slots and call it a day. So much feedback tho... (:

  • @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    They're going to release few more LOADOUT slots and call it a day. So much feedback tho... (:

    And what exaclty bothers you ?
    Last raid you did was 2 days ago
    Did it hamper your skills or killcount too much ? :)

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    They're going to release few more LOADOUT slots and call it a day. So much feedback tho... (:

    And what exaclty bothers you ?
    Last raid you did was 2 days ago
    Did it hamper your skills or killcount too much ? :)

    I can no longer play as many builds I want since it would take too long to swap during FC run. Build templates were meant for people who do this often. So yes, it bothers me that the feature that took 7 years to release did not deliver. Am I surprised? No. Am I hopeful? Not anymore. Logging in once a week for fullclear doesn't even count as playing the game for me. Although according to this very forum anyone who remember their password is an active player so...

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2019

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    They're going to release few more LOADOUT slots and call it a day. So much feedback tho... (:

    And what exaclty bothers you ?
    Last raid you did was 2 days ago
    Did it hamper your skills or killcount too much ? :)

    I can no longer play as many builds I want since it would take too long to swap during FC run. Build templates were meant for people who do this often. So yes, it bothers me that the feature that took 7 years to release did not deliver. Am I surprised? No. Am I hopeful? Not anymore. Logging in once a week for fullclear doesn't even count as playing the game for me. Although according to this every forum anyone who remember their password is an active player so...

    So ONCE per week , you are doing the full clear without using the Teamplates .
    So they wasted resources for ppl that play raid then :P
    Why the raiders cry then ?

    Fractals is fractals . Just Pick 1 set of armor and go . 7 years tactics
    Stack the might , Blast in Smoke for Stealth

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:

    @Tyncale.1629 said:
    I love the templates. Never used Arcdps. I bet lots of the non-forum people are like me. Man, is the competitive-mode crowd loud on these forums.

    I like them too..but I hope they make them more affordable.

    They are over rpiced. And account shared trait templates, should be free.

    Price isn't going to change. Watch for sales ... these do happen.

    They'd have to do like 90% price reductions though, and we both know that is not going to happen. So no, waiting for sales is not an option. Even those would be massively overpriced.
    Although you are almost certainly right in expecting them to do exactly nothing about the whole situation.

    Absolutely I was right the whole time along. This isn't about some notion of fairness or collective opinion gathering. The price was ALWAYS going to be in the range of other storage solutions you can purchase on the GS because it's what it has to be for a sustainable business offering and to demonstrate value over all the GS items ... it's a business decision ... players have no input to that. The player 'feedback' on pricing is always going to be biased to free, so it's pointless for Anet to consider it. Anyone that thought otherwise was just not being realistic ... at their own detriment.

    The biggest feedback that Anet is going to act on is function/UX. You can already see that with Legendary Gear interaction. The people giving feedback on price should have just not bothered. Pricing isn't a 'negotiable' feature.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    The price was ALWAYS going to be in the range of other storage solutions you can purchase on the GS because it's what it has to be for a sustainable business offering

    We'll see how "sustainable" that's going to be. remember, that sustainability depends not only on adjusting prices to the cost of production, but also on adjusting them to the level that is acceptable to buyers.

    I know all about it and I'm certain that Anet has a pretty good grasp on that fundamental idea as well. Let's put it this way ... the price it's at now is more sustainable that most of the unreasonable suggestions other people have put forward for the price. Here is why I'm confident ... because it's not out of line with the other storage options on the GS and Anet has the data to tell them what pricing range should be. Pricing is NOT an emotional decision and the fact you recognize that pricing factors balance means you already knew what I was talking about all along ... agenda to sell much?

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    Leaving feedback for EAnet is pointless. At last we agree on something.

    No, I don't agree with that at all. Anet is listening to people's concerns about Legendary Armor and templates for instance. I'm simply saying there are SOME things that customer should expect that their feedback is less ... useful. Price is definitely on the top of that list.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    current templates bring 1 additional place to swap. If you want - you can use. Don't want - don't use.
    In summary no any changes if you not buy something. So there is NO lose. Lose only side software users.
    We agree with what ?

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    Leaving feedback for EAnet is pointless. At last we agree on something.

    When casuals , where whinnng about dps meters in Raids , you told them to simply avoid their own silly specs and use Benchmarked Specs (meta build - with huge amount of damage or utilities for the raids) , so they are not wasting every1else valuable time .

    And now you are crying about the price ?
    For what ? Limiting build diversity ?
    You have already done that , for free "P

    mod , i will grand you 5 months of peace
    but you will offer me 5 ''cookies'' to munch afterwards :P
    up until now i have less than 15 cookies eaten , because i am not trying to get fat

  • Borrowing the expression from the automobile industry, we've been sold lemons; to the point that if they were in fact actual Vehicles there are laws in many states here in the US that prevent such sales or otherwise fine people for trying to sell them knowingly. Analogy ends here.

    I get that they've already made several hotfixes to do the most important patch work to fix what we've been given, however the whole thing leaves much to be desired.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Balthzar.3807Balthzar.3807 Member ✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    Just waiting

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm just hoping they fix the bugs, give sPvP its proper implementation (I thought it'd be quite straightforward but apparently it isn't; not knocking the devs here, I'm sure they're doing their best), and add a toggle to automatically change you into a specific build when you enter WvW/PvE/PvP.

    I have no idea what to make of any of the monetization; I'm honestly not particularly stressed.

  • here is the issue as I see it

    I am willing to bet that the because of the nature of the code linking build and equipment would require a roll back and complete rework

    Also the build storage are the only true templates and they are just for skills the rest are loadouts and the ability to save would make build storage not needed

    the basic changes that people are asking for would take months to do, if not a year so the only real option would be a rollback to pre-template which means gemstore purchases would have to be refunded and that isn't going to happen.

    So if it were, and I was in business for a long time I would do the following.

    1. let the feedback drag out as long as possible until most people give up
    2. decide which solution would be the easiest and that will most likely be a minor reduction in price and a give away of a few templates.

    Code wise there is no way for them to make the changes we want, so I have resigned myself to accepting that this is the system they gave us and not expect any significant change. This has made me evaluate what I am willing to contribute to supporting this game and I decided personally I will never again buy a single Gem or convert gold to Gems.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @LadyHawk.5319 said:
    The silence on this issue is disturbing. Either they are working out something wonderful or hoping we will forget and let it go. For me, the biggest issue is the blatant money grabbing direction NCSoft has taken Anet lately. It used to be we got one or two new things in the gem store a month. It was exciting. I used to think "Please let me hate the new item so I'm not tempted" LOL. Now, it's every week ... "Here's a new (newly skinned that is) shiney ... but it!" Yes, these things are cosmetic, but it doesnt take away from the obvious slope things are going down. Templates are QoL, not cosmetic. Something that used to be of concern and now is simply a means for milking the players. I'm heartbroken.

    These comments never make sense ... why is the silence disturbing? beacuse Devs are always coming out and arguing with players when challenged to do so? Uh, no ... completely the opposite in fact. They NEVER submit to these "Hey tell me NOW what I want to hear" threads. Silence should be everyone's expectation. You should be neither disturbed or surprised by it. Other than some second look at legendaries in another thread, what do you think they are going to tell you that you already know the answer to?

    And the idea there is a money grab is comedic ... I guess you like monthly subs and don't consider those money grabs? Think about that. How is Anet grabbing your money by offering optional items?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Templates may be basic for most games, but clearly Anet decided to take a different path with GW2 -- otherwise templates would have been available upon release. Templates weren't really needed until raids came out and the game seemed to get along just fine without them until that point. I haven't seen any requests for templates until HoT/raids came out and even then I recall most were wanting them built-on because they didn't want to trust a third-party application and risk getting banned.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • LadyHawk.5319LadyHawk.5319 Member ✭✭✭

    Indeed, not until HoT did the builds start to become more varied. Until that point we had Beserker, Rabid/Sinister maybe Assasins. HoT, followed by PoF brought so many stat combinations and, hence, build variations. As players go, ones exposure to 3rd party applications, aka Arc Templates, I believe is directly effected by the community the player played with. Some players were not aware of Arc Templates (or not aware that it was sanctioned by Anet; that there was no ban risk), while others were aware and proficiently used the application. But templates were and are beneficial to modes other than raids. Fractal, WvW, sPvP and Open World. Doing a Legendary Bounty as a DH and people are dying? NP, let me get out of combat and swap to my FB. Basically, once a player starts using them, most start enjoying the speed at which one can be flexible and that flexibility allows a player to more fully enjoy their game.

    If a player used one build for Open World, Fractals, WvW, and sPvP (or maybe they don't play competitive), than templates will mean nothing to them. The new templates we now have will seem wondrous. And that is genuinely great. They are loving their game. But, if you use different builds for those modes and different builds within those modes, the new templates and investment the company expects the player to make in order to not experience retrogression in their game play is ridiculous. My guardian, alone, at her bare bones set up, has 5 basic gear stats: Beserker, Viper, Minstrel, Harrier, Marauder. That is not including the different variations of gear setups for each of those. That is just the basic. The same is for my Revenant, for my Elementalist, etc. There are hundreds and hundreds of other players in this huge, great game that are in the same situation. Pay up if you want to keep up.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @LadyHawk.5319 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said: > And the idea there is a money grab is comedic ... I guess you like monthly subs and don't consider those money grabs? Think about that. How is Anet grabbing your money by offering optional items?

    I don't know if the issue is not seen clearly here or this is just arguing the sake of doing so. Templates/loadouts are not "optional items" in games, they are basic.

    Even if you consider them basic ... they are optional; nothing prevented anyone from having different builds and swapping them prior to templates ... or after templates. Yes they are nice and make swapping easier ... but you don't NEED them to do so.

    The issue here is that you don't reasonably label something basic to justify your disappointment with the value of the service or the standard behaviour of the developer. The fact is that how you or anyone else regard the templates (oh see ... you're another person that bases their expectations on what they think should be) is irrelevant. It's a reasonable service to offer at a price. If you don't want it, don't use it.

    The part I like is where you are clearly offended by Anet money grabbing ways by offering optional items for sale on the GS ... but the obvious alternative of a monthly sub is a more acceptable to you? That doesn't seem very honest if you think about it. Seems to me you haven't thought very hard about your views of how this game works as a business.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • LadyHawk.5319LadyHawk.5319 Member ✭✭✭

    I understand what you are saying. However, the entire quote is:

    @LadyHawk.5319 said:
    I don't know if the issue is not seen clearly here or this is just arguing the sake of doing so. Templates/loadouts are not "optional items" in games, they are basic. Effectively they had been in GW2 for WvW and sPvP prior to Oct. template build release (until they moved them to the new templates, taking away from anyone who plays more than one mode), GWs original has them, free. FFXIV has them, free. Even on the free trial you get them ... free. The list goes on.

    And btw, most games that have a monthly sub give you frequent new playable content, store currency (e.g. 500 store currency a month) and other goodies. Don't get me wrong, I love GWs. I have played the game for 5 years and over 17k hrs.

    I believe I gave examples games where templates are "basic".
    I believe I gave examples of how a monthly sub is not money grabbing (i.e., more frequent new content, store currency to spend)

    “A conversation in which the two parties have different beliefs should never begin with the intention of converting the other party to your own beliefs. Every worthwhile conversation's goal should be to understand the other person's opinions and help them understand your own.” ― Emily Eskowich

  • @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Have you ever considered that you're creating too much noise, some of it very angry, and there's no way any sane Human being would want to sift through all of that, especially when they likely aren't paid enough to do so on top of all their efforts ?

    Companies are made of the people that work there, and alot of them are just trying to pay the bills. Have some empathy, and ArenaNet will likely communicate with the players more, but as it is the forums have become little more than anger, negativity and even borderline hatred. I'm a game developer myself and on our last project we had to shut the forums down because it was giving the other devs anxiety.

    Would you really want to talk to someone who hates you ? Alot of these people aren't even buying anything.

    I have spent real life money( euros ) in the gem store. I bought the game when it was 60€ and even bought the expansion( they were on discount but then again I bought the middle ones).

    You are just making assumptions and YES, they are employes who have to pay their bills but they work for a company and said company has to know the unsatisfaction of their customers somehow. It won't drop into their chiefs by magic or xmas miracle. The unsatisfied customers must speak louder to make themselves be heard by the company independentment if it is of the employes or directly their chiefs.

    This is not an utopic happy and idyllic world. You must STAND to prevail and flowers and rainbows are not gonna help you take more seriously.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @LadyHawk.5319 said:
    I understand what you are saying. However, the entire quote is:

    @LadyHawk.5319 said:
    I don't know if the issue is not seen clearly here or this is just arguing the sake of doing so. Templates/loadouts are not "optional items" in games, they are basic. Effectively they had been in GW2 for WvW and sPvP prior to Oct. template build release (until they moved them to the new templates, taking away from anyone who plays more than one mode), GWs original has them, free. FFXIV has them, free. Even on the free trial you get them ... free. The list goes on.

    And btw, most games that have a monthly sub give you frequent new playable content, store currency (e.g. 500 store currency a month) and other goodies. Don't get me wrong, I love GWs. I have played the game for 5 years and over 17k hrs.

    I believe I gave examples games where templates are "basic".
    I believe I gave examples of how a monthly sub is not money grabbing (i.e., more frequent new content, store currency to spend)

    That's unproven and relevance is questionable in THIS game. Monthly subs do not necessarily lead to more frequent new content because it's not necessarily the path to more revenue. Now ask yourself why we don't have monthly subs based on NOT making assumptions and what we see happening in not just GW2, but other games as well.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

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