Upcoming Changes to Fall Damage and Revival — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Changes to Fall Damage and Revival

edited November 8, 2019 in Professions

Hey folks,

I wanted to pop in today to give you all a preview of some upcoming changes to fall damage and revival that we'll be rolling out in an upcoming balance update. The quick summary is that we are removing trait functionality that reduces fall damage and increases passive revival speed.

While fall damage reduction traits were useful when the game first launched we feel that they are currently over-complicating trait descriptions in a post-glider/mount world. Falling damage reduction is already pretty niche and in the past we have added additional functionality to make them more generally useful. However for most of these traits, that bonus functionality eventually became the main reason to take the trait. At this point we felt it just makes more sense to remove the fall damage portion, which leaves some design space if we want to buff these traits in the future.

For revival traits we want to focus more of that power onto active revival rather than simply increasing the speed of "press F to revive". You may have noticed that we've slowly been removing some of these traits already as was the case with the Tactics rework. We like how revival traits like Necromancer Transfusion and Elementalist Arcane Resurrection actively tap into existing skills and augment them so we added similar functionality to a few other revival traits when we removed the revival speed increase. In addition you'll also see some improvements to skills which revive allies directly.

Here's the list of changes by profession:

Elementalist

  • Arcane Abatement: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Arcane Restoration."
  • Glyph of Renewal: Reduced recharge to 90 seconds in all game modes. Lowered cast time from 3.25 seconds to 2 seconds.
  • Arcane Resurrection: This trait no longer increases revival speed. Auras granted by this trait are now granted only to the elementalist at the start of a revival attempt rather than at the end. This effect has a 20 second cooldown.

Engineer

  • Grenadier: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Additionally this trait now casts Lesser Grenade Barrage on your location when using a healing skill.
  • Toss Elixir R: This skill no longer removes 1 condition when thrown. Increased projectile speed by 25%. The projectile thrown by this skill is now unblockable. Fixed an issue where the land and water versions of this skill moved at different speeds.

Guardian

  • Protectors Impact: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Protector's Restoration".
  • Signet of Mercy: Reduced recharge to 90 seconds in all game modes. Changed passive effect from granting 180 healing power (216 when traited) to granting 120 concentration (150 when traited).
  • Protective Reviver: This trait no longer increases revival speed and no longer grants boons on a successful revival. Fixed skill fact to show correct 3 second duration. Fixed a bug which prevented the recharge of Lesser Shield of Absorption from being affected by Stalwart Defender. Lesser Shield of Absorption now heals nearby allies when it ends. This trait now causes all versions of Shield of Absorption to revive allies by 15% when it detonates.
  • Courageous Return: This trait has been reworked and it has been renamed to "Stalwart Courage". It grants the guardian Protection for 3 seconds in PvE and 1 second in PvP/WvW whenever aegis on the guardian is removed due to blocking an attack.

Mesmer

  • Descent into Madness: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Method of Madness"
  • Medic's Feedback: This trait no longer increases revival speed. It now causes Feedback to revive allies inside it by 5% per second.

Necromancer

  • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.
  • Signet of Undeath: Reduced recharge to 75 seconds in all game modes. Reduced cast time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Reduced number of allies revived from 3 to 1. Added additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill. Increased passive lifeforce gain by 100%.

Ranger

  • Soften the Fall: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Child of Earth"
  • Allies' Aid: This trait no longer increases revival speed. Reduced cooldown of this trait from 85 seconds to 60 seconds. Fixed a bug which caused the version of "Search and Rescue!" associated with this trait to be considered a Shout skill instead of a Command.

Revenant

  • Planar Protection: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait.

Thief

  • Uncatchable: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait.

Warrior

  • Peak Performance: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Reduced conditional damage bonus from 20% to 15% in PvE and 10% to 7% in competitive modes. Now grants 5% bonus damage baseline in PvE and 3% bonus damage in competitive modes.
Tagged:
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Comments

  • Question about this:

    Medic's Feedback: This trait no longer increases revival speed. It now causes Feedback to revive allies inside it by 5% per second.

    Does this mean that a mesmer can just tap F to cast the feedback then suddenly stop reviving but allies in the feedback still get revived?

  • @Melech.4308 said:
    Question about this:

    Medic's Feedback: This trait no longer increases revival speed. It now causes Feedback to revive allies inside it by 5% per second.

    Does this mean that a mesmer can just tap F to cast the feedback then suddenly stop reviving but allies in the feedback still get revived?

    Yes, it's similar to how the Arcane Resurrection trait works.

  • killfil.3472killfil.3472 Member ✭✭✭

    Wait, hold on.

    Signet of Undeath's passive life force generation has been increased by 100%?
    Does that mean the trait "Signet of Suffering" 's increase has also been increased by 100%?
    That could be a bit too powerful, no?

  • Serenity.6304Serenity.6304 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you for the communication. I can‘t wait to see these changes happen. Especially the new necro signet.

    ~ Miyu Chan / Tanky Miyu / Fyora ♥

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    Can't deny that I am disappointed. Fall damage traits are awesome in WvW, however niche they may be. I know they may be easy to dismiss, but the amount of times these traits have allowed me to win outnumbered fights in WvW is countless.

    Revenant still has no trait OR skill that has any sort of rez interaction ever since Radiant Revival was removed. Do you have any intention to include one? I dont see any reasons to exclude a single class from this especially one that has high support potential.

    Also, why are you buffing Guardian's rez potential? The last thing the class needs is rez buffs. Please look at MI while you are at it. This skill was swiftly nerfed in PvP, but for whatever reason was ignored in WvW. The class continues to hold the monopoly on support and this will only further reinforce it.

    Signet of Undeath change looks really super nice though, but potentially overbuffed. I will definitely play around with this.

    They don't really understand aspects of wvw so they aren't really thinking about it when they do balance changes. As far as this goes yeah it'll cause so many more deaths an require even more time picking people up off the ground. So if they are going to actually do these changes they should dramatically reduce the fall damage amounts in wvw. The only decent potential I see out of this as well is the Signet of Undeath for being traited as a frontline spite/death magic/reaper. However I would rather they focus on actual issues that make things in the game unplayable when it comes to wvw like the kalla legend it has practically no use in wvw as well as weapon setups that can never be used because they have either no utility or the utility is so dismal that something else far outshines it.

    Also aspects like guardian one balance problem that is always existed is that it was designed around boons and retaliation being one of its cornerstones. The problem people had with it back when it was nerfed is kind of needed back with the mindless spam to be a counter for mindless spamming. If I'm on my thief and someone tries to use retaliation its just a joke its not retaliating in any way lol if they plan to keep it like this they should rename it to tickle.

  • Since it's stated :

    Mesmer

    • Descent into Madness: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Method of Madness"
    • Medic's Feedback: This trait no longer increases revival speed. It now causes Feedback to revive allies inside it by 5% per second.

    Would that mean if a Mesmer casted normal feedback it would revive people? So if they mimic -> feedback -> feedback -> revive for medic's feedback and then cancel to proc after that 18s the person would be ressed 90% from full dead? If so wouldn't this be too broken in WvW lord ressurecting or ressing wiped people in a Zerg v Zerg fight? Esp since it just states "allies inside it" theoretically you could revive an entire zerg with 2+ mesmers placing feedback.

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭

    @Robert Gee.9246

    Just to clarify. Is this change for all game modes, only pve or? (little confused as we have seperate balance teams now and there was no mention of which specific balance team this falls in)

  • @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Ranger

    • Allies' Aid: This trait no longer increases revival speed. Reduced cooldown of this trait from 85 seconds to 60 seconds. Fixed a bug which caused the version of "Search and Rescue!" associated with this trait to be considered a Shout skill instead of a Command.

    This is basically a nerf for a trait that was already not so good, can't you guys make it works like transfusion and the pet pulls and tries to revive up to 5 downed players?

    Joko lies, Balthazar don't.

  • I have a core "medic necro" WvW build that gets some pretty epic plays out of Signet of Undeath. I'm disappointed that you chose to buff the passive and nerf the active. Not trolling, I found it to be one of few skills in GW2 that gives an honest high-risk high-reward. Especially given its small radius.

    I ask that you consider maybe a 50% passive increase with an allowance of 2 revives? I don't think PvP is a big consideration with this skill because of the difficulty of hitting off a 3-second recharge before the nerf-buff.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭

    no changes to warrior's res power?

  • @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    We like how revival traits like Necromancer Transfusion and Elementalist Arcane Resurrection actively tap into existing skills and augment them so we added similar functionality to a few other revival traits when we removed the revival speed increase. In addition you'll also see some improvements to skills which revive allies directly.>

    You like transfusion.....on the healing aspect fine w/e ...but in practice the bleeping teleport kills more people than it saves. I've hated this trait with a passion since the day it landed. You can be off to the side perfectly fine on your own then someone hits shroud 4 in the middle of the worst possible positioning known to man and you get to join them and enjoy the walk back together. Thrilling

    Remove the port or put an option in the settings so I can block its "help"( obviously not realistic but I hate it that much) . Instead of yelling at people to take the trait off. I don't think there's any other support trait in the game that can finish you and your 5 closest allies at the press of a single button.

  • neven.3785neven.3785 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree that the fall damage traits are very outdated and only were used in very niche roles. Most people i know who take those traits often do them for the other effects, not the fall damage. People in jumping puzzles can learn to live without that crutch :P Also glad to see more skills moving towards what arcane resurrection did, leaving behind effects that help with rezzing as in wvw its often death to do more than a tap to rez someone if MI's arent available.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teletric.3821 said:
    I feel like the fall damage negation is important in WvW, and those traits should be split between PvE and WvW.

    I know i should not feed the trolls but im seriously curios.

    What build did you play that activly used a falldmg trait?

  • Pyroatheist.9031Pyroatheist.9031 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DrakusEnderBorn.7904 said:
    Since it's stated :

    Mesmer

    • Descent into Madness: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Method of Madness"
    • Medic's Feedback: This trait no longer increases revival speed. It now causes Feedback to revive allies inside it by 5% per second.

    Would that mean if a Mesmer casted normal feedback it would revive people? So if they mimic -> feedback -> feedback -> revive for medic's feedback and then cancel to proc after that 18s the person would be ressed 90% from full dead? If so wouldn't this be too broken in WvW lord ressurecting or ressing wiped people in a Zerg v Zerg fight? Esp since it just states "allies inside it" theoretically you could revive an entire zerg with 2+ mesmers placing feedback.

    No, it'll have a 5-target cap like every other normal aoe in the game. Additionally, if a mesmer is able to stand there burning a hilarious amount of cooldowns to slowly res people that can just get poisoned and cleaved out anyway, something has gone terribly wrong. This is a cute change but completely useless for WvW.

    Ohey, I've got a signature

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    As someone who frequently plays a guardian and has made a couple different medic builds(Recently the one i'v been having the most fun with a 'Soaring Devastation' variant with dragon hunter that takes advantage of that movement speed.) I am definitely a fan of giving a nice bonus through shield of absorption to effective revival. However I do think the loss of boons is a huge strike against the trait. I feel like if any class should be given a plethora of tools for reviving, and given bonuses to both the healer and healie, it should probably be guardian.

    That's just my two coppers on it.

  • @DrakusEnderBorn.7904 said:
    Since it's stated :

    Mesmer

    • Descent into Madness: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Method of Madness"
    • Medic's Feedback: This trait no longer increases revival speed. It now causes Feedback to revive allies inside it by 5% per second.

    Would that mean if a Mesmer casted normal feedback it would revive people? So if they mimic -> feedback -> feedback -> revive for medic's feedback and then cancel to proc after that 18s the person would be ressed 90% from full dead? If so wouldn't this be too broken in WvW lord ressurecting or ressing wiped people in a Zerg v Zerg fight? Esp since it just states "allies inside it" theoretically you could revive an entire zerg with 2+ mesmers placing feedback.

    I'd go one step further:

    Feedback while in CS -> Mimic -> Feedback -> Feedback -> Feedback from actual revive to proc it = 20 seconds to fully revive possibly an entire zerg army or two. If this is the case, then that 5% per second recharge is too OP (for me anyway); maybe an even better rate is 3% per second, or limit the number of targets to 5 or 10. Just my 2c

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like the changes but I would like to see the reduced falld an age back. Atleast when you are in no gliding and no mount zones.
    Otherwise you will die a looooot more often in JPs

  • @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Otherwise you will die a looooot more often in JPs

    Well, wasn’t this the intention? :sweat_smile:

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    I'll just tag along to the "I liked fall damage reduction in WvW" camp :(

    I liked using it to engage people... It felt coooool D:

    Especially during those times when one of the falling traits was bugged and you could one-shot people with it... sorry, cant say Im gonna miss that.

  • FrigginPaco.4178FrigginPaco.4178 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2019

    @Yasi.9065 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    I'll just tag along to the "I liked fall damage reduction in WvW" camp :(

    I liked using it to engage people... It felt coooool D:

    Especially during those times when one of the falling traits was bugged and you could one-shot people with it... sorry, cant say Im gonna miss that.

    Well that's obviously not good. But in any of the regular instances of those traits usage, it was pretty nice.

    When something's not working as intended... yeah that's not typical?

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2019

    And what about Toss Elixir R and Elixir R in general for engi? You kinda forgot about core engineer yet again and it grinds my gears. Last time Elixir R was touched at all was in 2014 and Toss Elixir R in 2016.

    It makes me so annoyed that other professions' skills got substantially buffed and give way way better results in general (Signet of Mercy has no counter for example and is instant full ress) and Toss Elixir R can be reflected or body blocked byan enemy with Aegis and it happens MOSTLY BY ACCIDENT. Enemy doesn't even have to pay attention.

    [NUKE]

  • @Melech.4308 said:

    @DrakusEnderBorn.7904 said:
    Since it's stated :

    Mesmer

    • Descent into Madness: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Method of Madness"
    • Medic's Feedback: This trait no longer increases revival speed. It now causes Feedback to revive allies inside it by 5% per second.

    Would that mean if a Mesmer casted normal feedback it would revive people? So if they mimic -> feedback -> feedback -> revive for medic's feedback and then cancel to proc after that 18s the person would be ressed 90% from full dead? If so wouldn't this be too broken in WvW lord ressurecting or ressing wiped people in a Zerg v Zerg fight? Esp since it just states "allies inside it" theoretically you could revive an entire zerg with 2+ mesmers placing feedback.

    I'd go one step further:

    Feedback while in CS -> Mimic -> Feedback -> Feedback -> Feedback from actual revive to proc it = 20 seconds to fully revive possibly an entire zerg army or two. If this is the case, then that 5% per second recharge is too OP (for me anyway); maybe an even better rate is 3% per second, or limit the number of targets to 5 or 10. Just my 2c

    You still play a Chrono in WvW? With the Inspiration line? Well, to use CS you need at least one clone. If you are not as fast as Speedy Gonzales, you will not have the chance to use CS in a zerg fight. Moreover, if your squad is down you will need a lot of time for this combination (a "lot" compared with the time needed for the enemy team to kill you). In fact, I'm pretty sure that in such condition you will not even have time to start resurrecting someone.

    It is nice to theorize. But please, go play WvW. You will find the WvW environment to be quite different from the "laboratory" environment.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Samug.6512 said:
    And what about Toss Elixir R and Elixir R in general for engi? You kinda forgot about core engineer yet again and it grinds my gears. Last time Elixir R was touched at all was in 2014 and Toss Elixir R in 2016.

    It makes me so annoyed that other professions' skills got substantially buffed and give way way better results in general (Signet of Mercy has no counter for example and is instant full ress) and Toss Elixir R can be reflected or body blocked byan enemy with Aegis and it happens MOSTLY BY ACCIDENT. Enemy doesn't even have to pay attention.

    This. Please make Elixir R more useful.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swadow.6213 said:
    50% of base health to cast a skill seems very excessive for the active on signet of undeath considering it only revives only one now. It would have been reasonable to be at 30% if it revived 3 people and 50% just makes it unusable on necromancer since necromancer has no proper way to fill up that missing health.

    This is to make sure it never gets used in competitive game modes.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Samug.6512 said:
    And what about Toss Elixir R and Elixir R in general for engi? You kinda forgot about core engineer yet again and it grinds my gears. Last time Elixir R was touched at all was in 2014 and Toss Elixir R in 2016.

    It makes me so annoyed that other professions' skills got substantially buffed and give way way better results in general (Signet of Mercy has no counter for example and is instant full ress) and Toss Elixir R can be reflected or body blocked byan enemy with Aegis and it happens MOSTLY BY ACCIDENT. Enemy doesn't even have to pay attention.

    As Anet has clearly declared the engineer have no revival skills.

    Because purity of purpose!

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Cubeo.4308Cubeo.4308 Member
    edited November 7, 2019

    I am quite confused about the reasoning with the Signed of Undeath changes.
    I always considered the signets to be founded on balance between the passive and active parts. In a way that while the active part is very powerful, it makes you consider whether to use it in the moment because of the long cooldown and powerfull passive effect (that you are sacrificing for the whole cooldown).
    Considering this, looking at the changes, it will be 100% buff to the passive effect (which is already considered vital and quite powerful for many builds).
    But if we look at the active effect changes, the cooldown and cast time reductions could be considered a trade off with the target reduction (and even that with a pinch of salt in my opinion) , making the active effect as powerfull as it was. But the added health cost feels way too big and is straight up nerf for the active effect and adds another downside to the passive/active trade off all signets already have.
    In short - I feel like this change offsets the balance between the passive and active parts of the signet, as the passive part gets straight up buff, while the sum of changes for the active part ends up as a nerf. This all on a signet where I consider the passive part to be already superior to the active one.
    I would be very interested in more reasoning for this change, as the initial post does not offer any related to functionality of this signet.

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