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Thief permastealth is nerfed in this upcoming patch

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  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    just remove the stacking effect for stealth and try how it goes. Then extend stealth durations on case by case basis if needed.
    That's the easiest fix by far I can think of and it will not impact the actual gameplay for most thief builds.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    just remove the stacking effect for stealth and try how it goes. Then extend stealth durations on case by case basis if needed.
    That's the easiest fix by far I can think of and it will not impact the actual gameplay for most thief builds.

    A bit overkill, what if we also made the protection boon unstackable also so that sustain tanks that people have been complaining about lately also take a hit. Cap protection out at 4 seconds and make it non stack able. Actually maybe do that for all boons? That would fix the boon meta.

    Putting my facetious nature aside, I would propose a compromise. Just remove the ability to stack stealth gained through combo finishers with stealth gained through cool downs and see how that goes.

    Just one other thing though, my proviso for these changes would be to completely rework the marked mechanic. I'm all for nerfs that limit stealth stacking, but having marked continue to exist they way it does now after said nerfs would be insane. I don't complain too much about marked at the moment because stealthing inside keeps or towers is too easy at the moment. But if we're all going to agree to nerf stealth stacking then marked as we know it now needs to go. 2 seconds stealthed followed by a 6 second reveal is lunacy in a post stealth stacking nerf world.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    If you cant stop stealth by getting in the way of it in one way or another such as getting hit duing the person trying to stealth (or some how dodging a stealth on attk if that was in the game) there no real conter play and at best random attks that reveal if you some how land a hit vs stealth wich is in it self a counter to the reveal skill.

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

    I am just pointing out that you cant get away from perma stealth as long as you can leap combo to get it. Every suggestion that dose not deal with this one massive problem will not fix peram stealth from the thf class.

    It was just an ideal of what to do with a smoke aura it would have to be balanced for sure maybe a 2 sec stealth on a 4 to 3 sec cd is better? My point was stealth should not be a long effect but short burst to set up for a big burst or to make a fast movement to put your self as a better position with out being seen.

    Also these long post get a bit hard to replay line for line.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

    I am just pointing out that you cant get away from perma stealth as long as you can leap combo to get it. Every suggestion that dose not deal with this one massive problem will not fix peram stealth from the thf class.

    There is and it's a stupidly easy solution, follow the link above. Unless you're not interested, then just stop repeating something that's false, by no means you need to change that combo sequence to not allow perma stealthing.

    It was just an ideal of what to do with a smoke aura it would have to be balanced for sure maybe a 2 sec stealth on a 4 to 3 sec cd is better? My point was stealth should not be a long effect but short burst to set up for a big burst or to make a fast movement to put your self as a better position with out being seen.

    If you need to get hit to gain stealth on a low hp class, then it defeats the purpose of that mechanic, what exact value does it have? Your enemy decides how (and IF!) he activates your short stealth, at which point any time you'll want to use it to stealth, you're just going to...
    a) get hit for half of your health by a hardest hitting skill available to the class fighting you
    b) get CCed, so despite stealthing you're burning your mobility/stunbreak skill anyways or continue getting hit for free while you're invisible (such profit!)
    c) get hit with a channel skill, at which point your stealth achieved nothing (again).

    Explain to me how that makes any sense. <- see, no need to respond to the whole post, just this.

    Also these long post get a bit hard to replay line for line.

    Cool, but lets not pretend you were doing that in the first place...

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

    I am just pointing out that you cant get away from perma stealth as long as you can leap combo to get it. Every suggestion that dose not deal with this one massive problem will not fix peram stealth from the thf class.

    There is and it's a stupidly easy solution, follow the link above. Unless you're not interested, then just stop repeating something that's false, by no means you need to change that combo sequence to not allow perma stealthing.

    It was just an ideal of what to do with a smoke aura it would have to be balanced for sure maybe a 2 sec stealth on a 4 to 3 sec cd is better? My point was stealth should not be a long effect but short burst to set up for a big burst or to make a fast movement to put your self as a better position with out being seen.

    If you need to get hit to gain stealth on a low hp class, then it defeats the purpose of that mechanic, what exact value does it have? Your enemy decides how (and IF!) he activates your short stealth, at which point any time you'll want to use it to stealth, you're just going to...
    a) get hit for half of your health by a hardest hitting skill available to the class fighting you
    b) get CCed, so despite stealthing you're burning your mobility/stunbreak skill anyways or continue getting hit for free while you're invisible (such profit!)
    c) get hit with a channel skill, at which point your stealth achieved nothing (again).

    Explain to me how that makes any sense. <- see, no need to respond to the whole post, just this.

    Also these long post get a bit hard to replay line for line.

    Cool, but lets not pretend you were doing that in the first place...

    I am not sure if your making your point. Just because you disagree with it dose not make it wrong give reason why its wrong.

    That the thing all classes can leap though smoke fields to get stealth its balanced out side of class the fact a class can spam a leap finish or not is the problem of perma stealth and that has less to do with hp max min balancing and more to do with how thf skills cost something to use and not cd like other classes. By your views you would have ele and and gurd able to get high stealth up time because they are low hp classes. The way anet is going to fix it is by making the leap have progressively high cost to use meaning you cant spam it though smoke field.

    That aura for you they are not balanced with class in mind they are balanced with effects in mind. Ele is the aura class yet its the lowest hp class in the game so i am not sure if you understand the ideal of auras.

    I am reading and give reason line for line. I just respond with a bit more complex set of ideal and views on balancing of the game. This is not just about thf this is about adding in more effected use of fields and finnisher overall. All leaps should give an aura to the leaper not some boon or even condi/cc on the leaped target. We need a smoke aura poison aura water aura to match this standardization of leaps. On blast should be support both self and aoe this is where stealth should be applied. So we need to remove aura from blast mostly frost aura even chouse auras. We need to add more boon effects and moment to moment of use maybe barrier on blast even.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

    I am just pointing out that you cant get away from perma stealth as long as you can leap combo to get it. Every suggestion that dose not deal with this one massive problem will not fix peram stealth from the thf class.

    There is and it's a stupidly easy solution, follow the link above. Unless you're not interested, then just stop repeating something that's false, by no means you need to change that combo sequence to not allow perma stealthing.

    It was just an ideal of what to do with a smoke aura it would have to be balanced for sure maybe a 2 sec stealth on a 4 to 3 sec cd is better? My point was stealth should not be a long effect but short burst to set up for a big burst or to make a fast movement to put your self as a better position with out being seen.

    If you need to get hit to gain stealth on a low hp class, then it defeats the purpose of that mechanic, what exact value does it have? Your enemy decides how (and IF!) he activates your short stealth, at which point any time you'll want to use it to stealth, you're just going to...
    a) get hit for half of your health by a hardest hitting skill available to the class fighting you
    b) get CCed, so despite stealthing you're burning your mobility/stunbreak skill anyways or continue getting hit for free while you're invisible (such profit!)
    c) get hit with a channel skill, at which point your stealth achieved nothing (again).

    Explain to me how that makes any sense. <- see, no need to respond to the whole post, just this.

    Also these long post get a bit hard to replay line for line.

    Cool, but lets not pretend you were doing that in the first place...

    I am not sure if your making your point. Just because you disagree with it dose not make it wrong give reason why its wrong.

    That the thing all classes can leap though smoke fields to get stealth its balanced out side of class the fact a class can spam a leap finish or not is the problem of perma stealth and that has less to do with hp max min balancing and more to do with how thf skills cost something to use and not cd like other classes. By your views you would have ele and and gurd able to get high stealth up time because they are low hp classes. The way anet is going to fix it is by making the leap have progressively high cost to use meaning you cant spam it though smoke field.

    That aura for you they are not balanced with class in mind they are balanced with effects in mind. Ele is the aura class yet its the lowest hp class in the game so i am not sure if you understand the ideal of auras.

    I am reading and give reason line for line. I just respond with a bit more complex set of ideal and views on balancing of the game. This is not just about thf this is about adding in more effected use of fields and finnisher overall. All leaps should give an aura to the leaper not some boon or even condi/cc on the leaped target. We need a smoke aura poison aura water aura to match this standardization of leaps. On blast should be support both self and aoe this is where stealth should be applied. So we need to remove aura from blast mostly frost aura even chouse auras. We need to add more boon effects and moment to moment of use maybe barrier on blast even.

    Allow out of combat stealth to stack but Stealth Attacks would be disabled after somewhere around 4-7 seconds or so, having to come out of stealth and deal with any Revealed to Stealth for Stealth Attacks again. Why try to get rid of Field interaction when that's one of the more interesting and fun aspects of that game that promotes some teamwork? Stealth duration options have been discussed in a few different threads now and a few thieves have come up with similar ideas. There's just no need for overly complex and convoluted solutions that would kill a class and have side effects for other professions builds that we wouldn't see until everything is a mess.

    Devs and lazy players need to be mature when making suggestions about stealth and they need to leave Initiative alone after some reversions.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

    I am just pointing out that you cant get away from perma stealth as long as you can leap combo to get it. Every suggestion that dose not deal with this one massive problem will not fix peram stealth from the thf class.

    There is and it's a stupidly easy solution, follow the link above. Unless you're not interested, then just stop repeating something that's false, by no means you need to change that combo sequence to not allow perma stealthing.

    It was just an ideal of what to do with a smoke aura it would have to be balanced for sure maybe a 2 sec stealth on a 4 to 3 sec cd is better? My point was stealth should not be a long effect but short burst to set up for a big burst or to make a fast movement to put your self as a better position with out being seen.

    If you need to get hit to gain stealth on a low hp class, then it defeats the purpose of that mechanic, what exact value does it have? Your enemy decides how (and IF!) he activates your short stealth, at which point any time you'll want to use it to stealth, you're just going to...
    a) get hit for half of your health by a hardest hitting skill available to the class fighting you
    b) get CCed, so despite stealthing you're burning your mobility/stunbreak skill anyways or continue getting hit for free while you're invisible (such profit!)
    c) get hit with a channel skill, at which point your stealth achieved nothing (again).

    Explain to me how that makes any sense. <- see, no need to respond to the whole post, just this.

    Also these long post get a bit hard to replay line for line.

    Cool, but lets not pretend you were doing that in the first place...

    I am not sure if your making your point. Just because you disagree with it dose not make it wrong give reason why its wrong.

    That the thing all classes can leap though smoke fields to get stealth its balanced out side of class the fact a class can spam a leap finish or not is the problem of perma stealth and that has less to do with hp max min balancing and more to do with how thf skills cost something to use and not cd like other classes. By your views you would have ele and and gurd able to get high stealth up time because they are low hp classes. The way anet is going to fix it is by making the leap have progressively high cost to use meaning you cant spam it though smoke field.

    That aura for you they are not balanced with class in mind they are balanced with effects in mind. Ele is the aura class yet its the lowest hp class in the game so i am not sure if you understand the ideal of auras.

    I am reading and give reason line for line. I just respond with a bit more complex set of ideal and views on balancing of the game. This is not just about thf this is about adding in more effected use of fields and finnisher overall. All leaps should give an aura to the leaper not some boon or even condi/cc on the leaped target. We need a smoke aura poison aura water aura to match this standardization of leaps. On blast should be support both self and aoe this is where stealth should be applied. So we need to remove aura from blast mostly frost aura even chouse auras. We need to add more boon effects and moment to moment of use maybe barrier on blast even.

    Allow out of combat stealth to stack but Stealth Attacks would be disabled after somewhere around 4-7 seconds or so, having to come out of stealth and deal with any Revealed to Stealth for Stealth Attacks again. Why try to get rid of Field interaction when that's one of the more interesting and fun aspects of that game that promotes some teamwork? Stealth duration options have been discussed in a few different threads now and a few thieves have come up with similar ideas. There's just no need for overly complex and convoluted solutions that would kill a class and have side effects for other professions builds that we wouldn't see until everything is a mess.

    Devs and lazy players need to be mature when making suggestions about stealth and they need to leave Initiative alone after some reversions.

    Not removing updating it. Thf can use it in combat as well and it all adds up. The leaps do not have to hit a target to trigger the effect so you cant get in the way of the stealth combo. Making it a blast only stealth you add in some level of counter play. Its not a team work only thing its a blast should be support even if its self support only. Fields and combos need update more then any thing else in this game. It is time for it after 2 expansion.

    They have added in dark auras and updated the combo for the aura. It is with in the devs ability to update and add more to combos.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

    I am just pointing out that you cant get away from perma stealth as long as you can leap combo to get it. Every suggestion that dose not deal with this one massive problem will not fix peram stealth from the thf class.

    There is and it's a stupidly easy solution, follow the link above. Unless you're not interested, then just stop repeating something that's false, by no means you need to change that combo sequence to not allow perma stealthing.

    It was just an ideal of what to do with a smoke aura it would have to be balanced for sure maybe a 2 sec stealth on a 4 to 3 sec cd is better? My point was stealth should not be a long effect but short burst to set up for a big burst or to make a fast movement to put your self as a better position with out being seen.

    If you need to get hit to gain stealth on a low hp class, then it defeats the purpose of that mechanic, what exact value does it have? Your enemy decides how (and IF!) he activates your short stealth, at which point any time you'll want to use it to stealth, you're just going to...
    a) get hit for half of your health by a hardest hitting skill available to the class fighting you
    b) get CCed, so despite stealthing you're burning your mobility/stunbreak skill anyways or continue getting hit for free while you're invisible (such profit!)
    c) get hit with a channel skill, at which point your stealth achieved nothing (again).

    Explain to me how that makes any sense. <- see, no need to respond to the whole post, just this.

    Also these long post get a bit hard to replay line for line.

    Cool, but lets not pretend you were doing that in the first place...

    I am not sure if your making your point. Just because you disagree with it dose not make it wrong give reason why its wrong.

    That the thing all classes can leap though smoke fields to get stealth its balanced out side of class the fact a class can spam a leap finish or not is the problem of perma stealth and that has less to do with hp max min balancing and more to do with how thf skills cost something to use and not cd like other classes. By your views you would have ele and and gurd able to get high stealth up time because they are low hp classes. The way anet is going to fix it is by making the leap have progressively high cost to use meaning you cant spam it though smoke field.

    That aura for you they are not balanced with class in mind they are balanced with effects in mind. Ele is the aura class yet its the lowest hp class in the game so i am not sure if you understand the ideal of auras.

    I am reading and give reason line for line. I just respond with a bit more complex set of ideal and views on balancing of the game. This is not just about thf this is about adding in more effected use of fields and finnisher overall. All leaps should give an aura to the leaper not some boon or even condi/cc on the leaped target. We need a smoke aura poison aura water aura to match this standardization of leaps. On blast should be support both self and aoe this is where stealth should be applied. So we need to remove aura from blast mostly frost aura even chouse auras. We need to add more boon effects and moment to moment of use maybe barrier on blast even.

    Allow out of combat stealth to stack but Stealth Attacks would be disabled after somewhere around 4-7 seconds or so, having to come out of stealth and deal with any Revealed to Stealth for Stealth Attacks again. Why try to get rid of Field interaction when that's one of the more interesting and fun aspects of that game that promotes some teamwork? Stealth duration options have been discussed in a few different threads now and a few thieves have come up with similar ideas. There's just no need for overly complex and convoluted solutions that would kill a class and have side effects for other professions builds that we wouldn't see until everything is a mess.

    Devs and lazy players need to be mature when making suggestions about stealth and they need to leave Initiative alone after some reversions.

    Not removing updating it. Thf can use it in combat as well and it all adds up. The leaps do not have to hit a target to trigger the effect so you cant get in the way of the stealth combo. Making it a blast only stealth you add in some level of counter play. Its not a team work only thing its a blast should be support even if its self support only. Fields and combos need update more then any thing else in this game. It is time for it after 2 expansion.

    They have added in dark auras and updated the combo for the aura. It is with in the devs ability to update and add more to combos.

    If they are there and you are there there's already counter play. The problem you're trying to solve is when they stack stealth when you're not near each other, that's the advantage "permastealth" gives. My suggestion which is similar to what other thieves have suggested at least addresses your issue while what you're proposing just makes things more complicated and restricted needlessly.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

    I am just pointing out that you cant get away from perma stealth as long as you can leap combo to get it. Every suggestion that dose not deal with this one massive problem will not fix peram stealth from the thf class.

    There is and it's a stupidly easy solution, follow the link above. Unless you're not interested, then just stop repeating something that's false, by no means you need to change that combo sequence to not allow perma stealthing.

    It was just an ideal of what to do with a smoke aura it would have to be balanced for sure maybe a 2 sec stealth on a 4 to 3 sec cd is better? My point was stealth should not be a long effect but short burst to set up for a big burst or to make a fast movement to put your self as a better position with out being seen.

    If you need to get hit to gain stealth on a low hp class, then it defeats the purpose of that mechanic, what exact value does it have? Your enemy decides how (and IF!) he activates your short stealth, at which point any time you'll want to use it to stealth, you're just going to...
    a) get hit for half of your health by a hardest hitting skill available to the class fighting you
    b) get CCed, so despite stealthing you're burning your mobility/stunbreak skill anyways or continue getting hit for free while you're invisible (such profit!)
    c) get hit with a channel skill, at which point your stealth achieved nothing (again).

    Explain to me how that makes any sense. <- see, no need to respond to the whole post, just this.

    Also these long post get a bit hard to replay line for line.

    Cool, but lets not pretend you were doing that in the first place...

    I am not sure if your making your point. Just because you disagree with it dose not make it wrong give reason why its wrong.

    I told you why it's a stupid idea. Comment on that or stop pretending I'm "just disagreeing".

    That the thing all classes can leap though smoke fields to get stealth its balanced out side of class the fact a class can spam a leap finish or not is the problem of perma stealth and that has less to do with hp max min balancing and more to do with how thf skills cost something to use and not cd like other classes. By your views you would have ele and and gurd able to get high stealth up time because they are low hp classes. The way anet is going to fix it is by making the leap have progressively high cost to use meaning you cant spam it though smoke field.

    I already told you there are ways of doing that other than turning it into an aura with worthless effect.
    ...do you understand what you read?

    That aura for you they are not balanced with class in mind they are balanced with effects in mind. Ele is the aura class yet its the lowest hp class in the game so i am not sure if you understand the ideal of auras.

    It's not "balanced", it's "useless". I told you why. You didn't answer. That aura isn't even remotely an important part of ele, not sure why you're bringing that up here.
    (AAAAaaaahhhhh.... Because you're ele-only player and you don't know what you're talking about and only care about your single class. Clear. Still a terrible idea though)

    I am reading and give reason line for line.

    The fact that I had to ask you the same question 3 times (including 2 times enboldening it just to make sure you see it) to receive anything close to an answer proves that's a lie.

    I just respond with a bit more complex set of ideal and views on balancing of the game.

    The fact your only justification is based on your elementalist needing more aura effects "because they're good for your class" proves to opposite of what you're claiming in this sentence. You're not giving a "more complex views on balancing of the game", you're literally trying to buff your single class disregarding anything else.

    This is not just about thf this is about adding in more effected use of fields and finnisher overall. All leaps should give an aura to the leaper not some boon or even condi/cc on the leaped target. We need a smoke aura poison aura water aura to match this standardization of leaps. On blast should be support both self and aoe this is where stealth should be applied. So we need to remove aura from blast mostly frost aura even chouse auras.

    This doesn't need to be "just about thief", but it's a change that affects that class more than it does the others and you're proposing that change specifically in the thread about that class after claiming it "abuses it". Then you use it to give a worthless proposal that pretty much only works well for -seemingly- THE ONLY CLASS YOU PLAY. So much depth, much vision. Wow.

    We need to add more boon effects and moment to moment of use maybe barrier on blast even.

    :lol: yes, MORE BOON EFFECTS is what this game needs in its current state, I'm done.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

    I am just pointing out that you cant get away from perma stealth as long as you can leap combo to get it. Every suggestion that dose not deal with this one massive problem will not fix peram stealth from the thf class.

    There is and it's a stupidly easy solution, follow the link above. Unless you're not interested, then just stop repeating something that's false, by no means you need to change that combo sequence to not allow perma stealthing.

    It was just an ideal of what to do with a smoke aura it would have to be balanced for sure maybe a 2 sec stealth on a 4 to 3 sec cd is better? My point was stealth should not be a long effect but short burst to set up for a big burst or to make a fast movement to put your self as a better position with out being seen.

    If you need to get hit to gain stealth on a low hp class, then it defeats the purpose of that mechanic, what exact value does it have? Your enemy decides how (and IF!) he activates your short stealth, at which point any time you'll want to use it to stealth, you're just going to...
    a) get hit for half of your health by a hardest hitting skill available to the class fighting you
    b) get CCed, so despite stealthing you're burning your mobility/stunbreak skill anyways or continue getting hit for free while you're invisible (such profit!)
    c) get hit with a channel skill, at which point your stealth achieved nothing (again).

    Explain to me how that makes any sense. <- see, no need to respond to the whole post, just this.

    Also these long post get a bit hard to replay line for line.

    Cool, but lets not pretend you were doing that in the first place...

    I am not sure if your making your point. Just because you disagree with it dose not make it wrong give reason why its wrong.

    That the thing all classes can leap though smoke fields to get stealth its balanced out side of class the fact a class can spam a leap finish or not is the problem of perma stealth and that has less to do with hp max min balancing and more to do with how thf skills cost something to use and not cd like other classes. By your views you would have ele and and gurd able to get high stealth up time because they are low hp classes. The way anet is going to fix it is by making the leap have progressively high cost to use meaning you cant spam it though smoke field.

    That aura for you they are not balanced with class in mind they are balanced with effects in mind. Ele is the aura class yet its the lowest hp class in the game so i am not sure if you understand the ideal of auras.

    I am reading and give reason line for line. I just respond with a bit more complex set of ideal and views on balancing of the game. This is not just about thf this is about adding in more effected use of fields and finnisher overall. All leaps should give an aura to the leaper not some boon or even condi/cc on the leaped target. We need a smoke aura poison aura water aura to match this standardization of leaps. On blast should be support both self and aoe this is where stealth should be applied. So we need to remove aura from blast mostly frost aura even chouse auras. We need to add more boon effects and moment to moment of use maybe barrier on blast even.

    Allow out of combat stealth to stack but Stealth Attacks would be disabled after somewhere around 4-7 seconds or so, having to come out of stealth and deal with any Revealed to Stealth for Stealth Attacks again. Why try to get rid of Field interaction when that's one of the more interesting and fun aspects of that game that promotes some teamwork? Stealth duration options have been discussed in a few different threads now and a few thieves have come up with similar ideas. There's just no need for overly complex and convoluted solutions that would kill a class and have side effects for other professions builds that we wouldn't see until everything is a mess.

    Devs and lazy players need to be mature when making suggestions about stealth and they need to leave Initiative alone after some reversions.

    Not removing updating it. Thf can use it in combat as well and it all adds up.

    "Can use it" except it's worthless for thief and I already told you why, which you didn't answer to after claiming "you answer to my posts line after line".
    If it has any value for thief, then tell me what it is, because I sure can't see it.

    The leaps do not have to hit a target to trigger the effect so you cant get in the way of the stealth combo. Making it a blast only stealth you add in some level of counter play. Its not a team work only thing its a blast should be support even if its self support only. Fields and combos need update more then any thing else in this game. It is time for it after 2 expansion.

    No, it should be. No they don't need.
    See? This has the same value as what you wrote in the quoted part above.

    They have added in dark auras and updated the combo for the aura. It is with in the devs ability to update and add more to combos.

    The only reason you want it is to potentially have more auras for the only class you play and the only class that would actually BENEFIT from that change, which is elementalist. Stop lying it's about overall balance, it's clearly not.

  • Senqu.8054Senqu.8054 Member ✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:
    Kinda funny to see people talking about permastealth keep captures when it seems about as common as portal-bombing these days. How many keeps do you think actually get flipped by permastealth, per week?

    It’s one of the components why perma stealth shouldn’t exist. Knowing a thief is in a keep and you can do nothing about it is not something that should exist in a game and I think we can all agree to that. But I think the term „perma stealth“ also refers to the problem how much access thief has to stealth. Stealth on dodge?? Come on why is this even accepted?

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

    I am just pointing out that you cant get away from perma stealth as long as you can leap combo to get it. Every suggestion that dose not deal with this one massive problem will not fix peram stealth from the thf class.

    There is and it's a stupidly easy solution, follow the link above. Unless you're not interested, then just stop repeating something that's false, by no means you need to change that combo sequence to not allow perma stealthing.

    It was just an ideal of what to do with a smoke aura it would have to be balanced for sure maybe a 2 sec stealth on a 4 to 3 sec cd is better? My point was stealth should not be a long effect but short burst to set up for a big burst or to make a fast movement to put your self as a better position with out being seen.

    If you need to get hit to gain stealth on a low hp class, then it defeats the purpose of that mechanic, what exact value does it have? Your enemy decides how (and IF!) he activates your short stealth, at which point any time you'll want to use it to stealth, you're just going to...
    a) get hit for half of your health by a hardest hitting skill available to the class fighting you
    b) get CCed, so despite stealthing you're burning your mobility/stunbreak skill anyways or continue getting hit for free while you're invisible (such profit!)
    c) get hit with a channel skill, at which point your stealth achieved nothing (again).

    Explain to me how that makes any sense. <- see, no need to respond to the whole post, just this.

    Also these long post get a bit hard to replay line for line.

    Cool, but lets not pretend you were doing that in the first place...

    I am not sure if your making your point. Just because you disagree with it dose not make it wrong give reason why its wrong.

    That the thing all classes can leap though smoke fields to get stealth its balanced out side of class the fact a class can spam a leap finish or not is the problem of perma stealth and that has less to do with hp max min balancing and more to do with how thf skills cost something to use and not cd like other classes. By your views you would have ele and and gurd able to get high stealth up time because they are low hp classes. The way anet is going to fix it is by making the leap have progressively high cost to use meaning you cant spam it though smoke field.

    That aura for you they are not balanced with class in mind they are balanced with effects in mind. Ele is the aura class yet its the lowest hp class in the game so i am not sure if you understand the ideal of auras.

    I am reading and give reason line for line. I just respond with a bit more complex set of ideal and views on balancing of the game. This is not just about thf this is about adding in more effected use of fields and finnisher overall. All leaps should give an aura to the leaper not some boon or even condi/cc on the leaped target. We need a smoke aura poison aura water aura to match this standardization of leaps. On blast should be support both self and aoe this is where stealth should be applied. So we need to remove aura from blast mostly frost aura even chouse auras. We need to add more boon effects and moment to moment of use maybe barrier on blast even.

    Allow out of combat stealth to stack but Stealth Attacks would be disabled after somewhere around 4-7 seconds or so, having to come out of stealth and deal with any Revealed to Stealth for Stealth Attacks again. Why try to get rid of Field interaction when that's one of the more interesting and fun aspects of that game that promotes some teamwork? Stealth duration options have been discussed in a few different threads now and a few thieves have come up with similar ideas. There's just no need for overly complex and convoluted solutions that would kill a class and have side effects for other professions builds that we wouldn't see until everything is a mess.

    Devs and lazy players need to be mature when making suggestions about stealth and they need to leave Initiative alone after some reversions.

    Not removing updating it. Thf can use it in combat as well and it all adds up. The leaps do not have to hit a target to trigger the effect so you cant get in the way of the stealth combo. Making it a blast only stealth you add in some level of counter play. Its not a team work only thing its a blast should be support even if its self support only. Fields and combos need update more then any thing else in this game. It is time for it after 2 expansion.

    They have added in dark auras and updated the combo for the aura. It is with in the devs ability to update and add more to combos.

    If they are there and you are there there's already counter play. The problem you're trying to solve is when they stack stealth when you're not near each other, that's the advantage "permastealth" gives. My suggestion which is similar to what other thieves have suggested at least addresses your issue while what you're proposing just makes things more complicated and restricted needlessly.

    Sadly there is not counter play the leap it self has such a small aoe of an hit box if there ones at all you cant realty stop the leap from hitting. Maybe if they made the leap stealth only work if you hit a target where the stealth is applied after the dmg this would also fix the perma stealth though the leaps BUT over all by redoing fields and combos in the way i suggested is far heather for the game. Things like blast are much eaier to stop from applying that perma stealth as you simply only need to be in the aoe of the blast.

    @Sobx.1758 You do too many person attks to have a real chat about balancing.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Easily fix add in shadow / smoke auras when leaping though a smoke field. Stealth is a support effect when use of field why it gives whom ever leaps though it stealth is game braking. By adding this aura in you will give an self support effect that will give you stealth when hit for 1 sec on a 2 sec delay as well as applying reviewl for 2 sec on a 2 sec delay.

    How is this even supposed to be any kind of useful utility, let alone a defensive one? You got hit? No worries, ONE SECOND STEALTH! How exactly does it help anyone, lmao.

    major update to old effects that are being exploited in some ways like stealth leaps or not being used at all other blasting or leaping effects though other fields.

    See, it's pretty funny because you try to dress it like something new came along in these 8 years that suddenly allow to "explot the old effects", but that's just false. It's not "exploiting old effects", it's how it was purposefully designed.

    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.
    No, what you're proposing is not a solution, it's a bad joke. Your "one second of stealth after being hit after already using up ini to even get the aura in the first place" is worthless. Do you even play the very thing you're commenting on? Because for me it's a pretty safe bet that you're out of your depth.

    Stealth is not a always in effect it should be a very short effect to let you set up for bit hits if your getting 9 sec avg. there is something wrong.

    I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

    Being able to leap though an smoke field over and over with out realty risking a hit IS an exploration of the game systems. Stealth should be harder to come by and more class aimed utitly.

    No, it's not, it's here for a long time, it's nothing that somehow "recently showed up in the game and is now abused as it wasn't planned to". No need to lie about it just because you don't know how to push your opinion with a valid argument.

    There is no way to brake perma stealth with out dealing with leap stealth its that simple.

    There is and there's already a thread about it. You lack imagination/knowledge (probably because you don't even play the class, right?) and your solution is terrible as it trades a useful utility into a useless one.
    And most importantly: you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility. Is it because you forgot to, or just didn't come up with an answer?

    What your suggesting is peram stealth is ok any thing over 9 sec is perma stealth for the class.

    Sure, but how about you stop lying in my face?
    Quote from my last post from the first page of this thread:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Yes, perma stealth is bad and shouldn't be a thing.

    How does it mean I'm ok with perma stealth?

    Here's my post from another thread about perma stealth:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1216918/#Comment_1216918
    And "pretty sure" the hard cap would prevent any -even theoretical at the moment- possibility of free perma stealthing without turning it into worthless 1 second after being hit. So much for me "suggesting perma stealth is ok". Even without the knowledge of that last thread I literally said perma stealth isn't ok on the previous page. So what exactly are you trying to sell here?

    Leap giving a thf stealth means perma stealth because of low cd of skills. Stealth is a class skill is should take the thf class utility to get the effect as that gives real risk reward balancing for the stealth effect. If you have to give up utility for stealth skills you lose dmg / cc etc.. effect to be more stealth aimed. That is how balancing should work. As long as you can simply preform an class effect though "free" environmental effects alone your simply inviting bad balancing that will simply be over fixed by making thf skills most costly to use. The thf player base and your views are nerfing thf in other means because they are unwilling to give up perma stealth effects.

    I don't know by what logic you came up with the idea that I need an explanation of what stealth does or how it's gained, but I don't.

    For the 3rd time, the question was:
    you still didn't explain to me how a "1 second stealth after getting hit after spending ini to get the aura in the first place" would be such a great idea for a new mechanic/utility
    In other words: explain to me how your great rework idea would be useful/reliable in any way.
    But I guess you'll keep dodging, because you have nothing to say about it.

    I am just pointing out that you cant get away from perma stealth as long as you can leap combo to get it. Every suggestion that dose not deal with this one massive problem will not fix peram stealth from the thf class.

    There is and it's a stupidly easy solution, follow the link above. Unless you're not interested, then just stop repeating something that's false, by no means you need to change that combo sequence to not allow perma stealthing.

    It was just an ideal of what to do with a smoke aura it would have to be balanced for sure maybe a 2 sec stealth on a 4 to 3 sec cd is better? My point was stealth should not be a long effect but short burst to set up for a big burst or to make a fast movement to put your self as a better position with out being seen.

    If you need to get hit to gain stealth on a low hp class, then it defeats the purpose of that mechanic, what exact value does it have? Your enemy decides how (and IF!) he activates your short stealth, at which point any time you'll want to use it to stealth, you're just going to...
    a) get hit for half of your health by a hardest hitting skill available to the class fighting you
    b) get CCed, so despite stealthing you're burning your mobility/stunbreak skill anyways or continue getting hit for free while you're invisible (such profit!)
    c) get hit with a channel skill, at which point your stealth achieved nothing (again).

    Explain to me how that makes any sense. <- see, no need to respond to the whole post, just this.

    Also these long post get a bit hard to replay line for line.

    Cool, but lets not pretend you were doing that in the first place...

    I am not sure if your making your point. Just because you disagree with it dose not make it wrong give reason why its wrong.

    That the thing all classes can leap though smoke fields to get stealth its balanced out side of class the fact a class can spam a leap finish or not is the problem of perma stealth and that has less to do with hp max min balancing and more to do with how thf skills cost something to use and not cd like other classes. By your views you would have ele and and gurd able to get high stealth up time because they are low hp classes. The way anet is going to fix it is by making the leap have progressively high cost to use meaning you cant spam it though smoke field.

    That aura for you they are not balanced with class in mind they are balanced with effects in mind. Ele is the aura class yet its the lowest hp class in the game so i am not sure if you understand the ideal of auras.

    I am reading and give reason line for line. I just respond with a bit more complex set of ideal and views on balancing of the game. This is not just about thf this is about adding in more effected use of fields and finnisher overall. All leaps should give an aura to the leaper not some boon or even condi/cc on the leaped target. We need a smoke aura poison aura water aura to match this standardization of leaps. On blast should be support both self and aoe this is where stealth should be applied. So we need to remove aura from blast mostly frost aura even chouse auras. We need to add more boon effects and moment to moment of use maybe barrier on blast even.

    Allow out of combat stealth to stack but Stealth Attacks would be disabled after somewhere around 4-7 seconds or so, having to come out of stealth and deal with any Revealed to Stealth for Stealth Attacks again. Why try to get rid of Field interaction when that's one of the more interesting and fun aspects of that game that promotes some teamwork? Stealth duration options have been discussed in a few different threads now and a few thieves have come up with similar ideas. There's just no need for overly complex and convoluted solutions that would kill a class and have side effects for other professions builds that we wouldn't see until everything is a mess.

    Devs and lazy players need to be mature when making suggestions about stealth and they need to leave Initiative alone after some reversions.

    Not removing updating it. Thf can use it in combat as well and it all adds up. The leaps do not have to hit a target to trigger the effect so you cant get in the way of the stealth combo. Making it a blast only stealth you add in some level of counter play. Its not a team work only thing its a blast should be support even if its self support only. Fields and combos need update more then any thing else in this game. It is time for it after 2 expansion.

    They have added in dark auras and updated the combo for the aura. It is with in the devs ability to update and add more to combos.

    If they are there and you are there there's already counter play. The problem you're trying to solve is when they stack stealth when you're not near each other, that's the advantage "permastealth" gives. My suggestion which is similar to what other thieves have suggested at least addresses your issue while what you're proposing just makes things more complicated and restricted needlessly.

    @Sobx.1758 You do too many person attks to have a real chat about balancing.

    Ok, you're free to feel like that. But lets not pretend any "real chat about balancing" would happen here since you keep dodging anything you want from my posts you're supposedly answering "line by line". All you do here is make an effort to buff your class (unrelated to the thread btw) AND NOTHING ELSE, while claiming you're having a broad vision of balance. That's a clear lie, good luck with that though.

  • ParadoX.3124ParadoX.3124 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    Add a 10 secs no reveal at the end of stealth, even if no attacks, problem solved on every game mode.

  • Hmm... didn't know you guys would have this much discussion on my old post, but to keep things clear, Anet is less likely to nerf permastealth deadeye.
    Permastealth is still possible at a cost of damage. This means that you will be annoying but useless in any combats. (in 1vs1)
    If you build damage like one shot builds, then you won't have permastealth, so any mistake will likely lead to a loss.
    Also, deadeye is generally ineffective in any group contents because of low sustainability. Anything that a deadeye can do , other profession can do much better and easier.
    If anet is willing to nerf permastealth, then other aspects of deadeye should be buffed. If not, then no one will play deadeye because it will be simply useless. And as we have seen in previous balance patches, any major buffs to thief profession have lead to tremendous fights in forums. So whatever changes anet makes, people will argue regardless.

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Perma stealthing is so bad that I don't have to log into the game because I am perma stealthing you don't know if I'm really online or not unless its reset.

  • mikdepadua.8376mikdepadua.8376 Member ✭✭✭

    Wow people hate thieves dont they