Is there any practical reason to use shield? Does it need changes? What changes?

[Zexanima.7851]

I really like using the shield but it seems like it has a lot less impact than off-hand sword. It should be comparable but in a support way instead of damage. Shield 4 is neat in concept but the numbers just feel weak on it and Shield 5 feels like it lacks team support or something. I'm still a new Rev but here are my change suggestions, feel free to tear them apart.

Shield 4 (Envoy of Exuberance):

• Send the energy of Glint towards the target area that heals allies in the path and removes 1 condition in the target area and 1 condition when it returns to you. (throw it on yourself to cleanse two conditions basically). EDIT: Also destroys projectiles.

Shield 5 (Crystal Hibernation):

• Channel a shield from the mists to protect you, blocking attacks and regenerating health. Pulse protection to 5(maybe 10?) allies. (1 sec per pulse, so 4 seconds of pulsing protection)

To balance these the energy cost of both might need to be slightly increased. I'm not saying these are the BEST options to make shield better, just what I thought up.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Lmao. Theres no need to increase energy cost when its actually huge. They need to revert all nerfs on shield 5 and make it mobile and a completely new skill on 4 to cc/reflect or whatever really

[Zexanima.7851]

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Lmao. Theres no need to increase energy cost when its actually huge. They need to revert all nerfs on shield 5 and make it mobile and a completely new skill on 4 to cc/reflect or whatever really

People tend to throw a fit if you suggest a buff without a nerf, so I figured I would throw that in there. I agree though, it doesn't really need the energy cost increase.

[LucianDK.8615]

pulsing protection is completely redundant with Facet of Chaos doing the same thing.

[Zexanima.7851]

@LucianDK.8615 said:pulsing protection is completely redundant with Facet of Chaos doing the same thing.

Fair, but this wouldn't have an upkeep. Maybe it could pulse resistance instead. That might be too OP though. Retaliation? I'm not sure...

[DonArkanio.6419]

Shield and Renegade suffer from the same thing - A bad design.Keeping any of the Shield's skills wouldn't change much. To make it special it has to do something ndifferent from other classes - so we have a root. But then, PvP evolved to this mess we have now and it's very clunky / needless to use.

Shield is a support / Utility weapon but the problem is that it doesn't provide any of these.

Shield:

• make Shield #4 work like Guardian's Staff #2, with blast and different visual.
• make Shield #5 pulse healing around you, with effects depending on legend.

That's my solution.

On a side note. I'm sad that Revenant's skills have long CDs and medium energy cost. They should go for either short CD+medium effects+medium cost or short CD+strong effects+big energy cost.

[Zexanima.7851]

@DonArkanio.6419 said:Shield and Renegade suffer from the same thing - A bad design.Keeping any of the Shield's skills wouldn't change much. To make it special it has to do something ndifferent from other classes - so we have a root. But then, PvP evolved to this mess we have now and it's very clunky / needless to use.

Shield is a support / Utility weapon but the problem is that it doesn't provide any of these.

Shield:

• make Shield #4 work like Guardian's Staff #2, with blast and different visual.I would still want a condi cleanse on this as it's a big weakness rev has that I think would make sense for shield to help cover.
• make Shield #5 pulse healing around you, with effects depending on legend.Great idea! It would compliment the elit spec that way, like a lesser facet of nature.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

@"DonArkanio.6419" said:Shield and Renegade suffer from the same thing - A bad design.Keeping any of the Shield's skills wouldn't change much. To make it special it has to do something ndifferent from other classes - so we have a root. But then, PvP evolved to this mess we have now and it's very clunky / needless to use.

Shield is a support / Utility weapon but the problem is that it doesn't provide any of these.

Shield:

• make Shield #4 work like Guardian's Staff #2, with blast and different visual.
• make Shield #5 pulse healing around you, with effects depending on legend.

That's my solution.

On a side note. I'm sad that Revenant's skills have long CDs and medium energy cost. They should go for either short CD+medium effects+medium cost or short CD+strong effects+big energy cost.

I do really like this idea as a way of offering a more reliable and effective way of healing outside of Ventari. People seem to often tote the staff as the "support" weapon, but I disagree. The orbs are nearly meaningless and staff 4 is just one skill of 5. It is a utility weapon. I get as much support in WvW out of mace 3 than I do staff. I would really like to have a "go-to" healing weapon and shield would be the most appropriate for that. A defensive/blocking weapon would have to be implemented somewhere into the class' kit though.

[DonArkanio.6419]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@"DonArkanio.6419" said:Shield and Renegade suffer from the same thing -

A bad design.

Keeping any of the Shield's skills wouldn't change much. To make it special it has to do something ndifferent from other classes - so we have a root. But then, PvP evolved to this mess we have now and it's very clunky / needless to use.

Shield is a support / Utility weapon but the problem is that it doesn't provide any of these.

Shield:

• make Shield #4 work like Guardian's Staff #2, with blast and different visual.
• make Shield #5 pulse healing around you, with effects depending on legend.

That's my solution.

On a side note. I'm sad that Revenant's skills have long CDs and medium energy cost. They should go for either short CD+medium effects+medium cost or short CD+strong effects+big energy cost.

I do really like this idea as a way of offering a more reliable and effective way of healing outside of Ventari. People seem to often tote the staff as the "support" weapon, but I disagree. The orbs are nearly meaningless and staff 4 is just one skill of 5. It is a utility weapon. I get as much support in WvW out of mace 3 than I do staff. I would really like to have a "go-to" healing weapon and shield would be the most appropriate for that. A defensive/blocking weapon would have to be implemented somewhere into the class' kit though.

I've been thinking about this for some time now and Shield just can't do both of these roles at once. I feel like Herald should have Warhorn and maybe Shield was a core weapon. At the moment Shield doesn't fulfill its purpose because we have 1 skill that heals (if it hits) allies and one heals us. Maybe if the heal increases with condi removing trait so - Crystal Hibernation and Envoy of Exuberance healed for every Condition removed, etc. Then we could pair it with Corruption's Condi Heal and somehow make it work.I just don't see a clear solution to Shield if its skills are kept the way they are now.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Shield 5 would be great if it allowed you to move (at expense of reduced healing and removal boon duration increase?). I personally never liked shield's 4, too clunky, too slow and kinda not worth wasting your energy on it. I'd rather see a complete rework than some minor tweak's to rev's shield 4

[Flying.6509]

Like others have said, shield 5 should not root you in place., no other class has this on their shield. For shield 4, we already have Protection on Glint elite skill. It could be something else, perhaps Stability (that's what we lack on Shiro/Glint - Invo/Deva/Herald meta WvW/PvP build), and get rid of the awkward mechanics on it.

[Buran.3796]

Shields usually are defensive weapons albeit can be used to attack (ramming) as in the case of the ones from Warrior and Guardian. Usually defensive weapons has no place in PvE content, so the shield should be at least competitive in PvP or WvW. But Herald's shield provides no defense, no ofense, and reduces your mobility, so is trash for competitive game modes. Let it root (and I talk as a player which crafted The Flameseeker's Prophecies).

[MithranArkanere.8957]

I'd like to see 3 changes for revenant shield:

• Hardening Persistence: On top of removing a condition, also make shield skills give 1000 barrier (base).
• Envoy of Exuberance: Always remove poison, even without Hardening Persistence.
• Crystal Hibernation: Replace the block and healing with immunity to CC and converting damage into barrier. Like Infuse Light, but getting barrier when damaged instead healing. Allies around you (240 units radius) have their boons protected from removal while the skill pulses. Increase recharge to 40s.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if shield 4 gave more prot and shield 5 was 15s cd / 15e, I would be happy.

[Kain Francois.4328]

Shield 5 has an incredible niche when hand kiting deimos. I would be sad to see it go. Make the condi cleanse baseline.

Shield #4 could go to heck though. Rework Shield #4.

Idea for Shield #4: Give it a different effect depending on the weapon equipped. That should diversify it enough to stand out as a weapon. For example, it could have offensive purposes while tuned to Shiro, and even compete with OH sword. Or it could aoe heal as Ventari/Glint, and apply condis as Mallyx.

A major issue with OH Shield is that unlike literally every other OH weapon a Revenant possesses, Shield does not have a mobility. So I think giving Shield #4 a mobility would help.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

I've been playing some shield rev. It's not completely bad, but the main issue is it currently NEEDS to be used with hardening persistence or else it's trash.

IMO condi clears should be baseline, and hardening persistence should give some other buff to shield skills such as reduced recharge, granting barrier, clearing additional condis, or some equally useful bonus that makes shield better at its job.

[DemonSeed.3528]

I like the mobile shield idea too - maybe make it also absorb attacks and convert into energy.

[Shao.7236]

Shield is good if used to bunk, otherwise you lose too much physical damage output and is plain not worth it. I can see why people want it to be reworked but as it is. It's actually okay, the 4th skill should just work like a wave the Guardian uses and straight up heal yourself with what's in front of you, because in it's current state it's clunky and rarely ever hits people right or come back if used from too far away. Which basically means it was wasted.

@DemonSeed.3528 said:I like the mobile shield idea too - maybe make it also absorb attacks and convert into energy.

This could be a nice addition, just be careful for what you wish when you have traits like Charged Mists. I could see it being useful if you were to swap legends the moment you use it, but otherwise might just be more bothersome to proc it, maybe like 3% energy anytime it blocks an attack.

@"Master Ketsu.4569" said:I've been playing some shield rev. It's not completely bad, but the main issue is it currently NEEDS to be used with hardening persistence or else it's trash.

IMO condi clears should be baseline, and hardening persistence should give some other buff to shield skills such as reduced recharge, granting barrier, clearing additional condis, or some equally useful bonus that makes shield better at its job.

Well, it's not like the other traits beside Hardening Persistence are THAT much useful. Shining Aspects is underwhelming no matter how much Healing Power you have and have a cooldown in between skills unlike say Guardian with Meditation skills, I don't know what they were thinking. Shared Empowerment is more like a "I'm not using the shield, I might as well just use that instead." kind of idea behind it.

[Maddog.3716]

Sometimes you can kill yourself from behind shield5. Here is such here is have us defender.

[Knighthonor.4061]

Shield was supposed to be a hybrid of defense and support. But honestly fail at both. The Herald was just Anet throwing together something that can fit the difference aspects of the core legends, which is why the skills are all over the place and later settled for boon support/off legend. Shield was sort of in the mix here since it had to also fix multiple roles. At the same time due to the limitations in the number of core weapons, Shield had to compete with the original off hand shield for defense and was our only 1 hand support weapon. So many flaws added up to what this mess became. It need a revamp. Problem is most people not honest about this.

[Hoshikogi.7160]

I think that shield 5 could use some work. It would be nice if the reverent was rewarded for blocking attacks: such as each block placing a building barrier on 5 allies within a 180-240 radius or even releasing a small heal to players around them with each block. Otherwise, this ability just seems like a selfish waste of mist for a spec that is based around party/raid boon support.

[ChillyKoti.1928]

I currently use Shield, even if it's not that "oomph", but...

All shield skills in the game has a CC skill, except Revenant.

That CC skill would be great on skill 4: Envoy of Exuberance. Like while applying Protection and healing to allies in the targeted area, also daze or stun ennemies (with a bit of dammage, like almost all CC skill in the game)

Skill 5: Crystal Hybernation really needs to be mobile while also supporting your allies. Maybe keep the "crystal shell" around your character to see that you are blocking and add a second "crystal bubble" around your character that pulses a boon to allies in it.